Friday, October 30, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Nobel Laureate says God is ''Cruel, Spiteful, Vengeful, Jealous and Unbearable.''

by Mario de Queiroz - IPS

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=48951

LISBON, Oct 21 (IPS) - After a nearly two-decade truce, Portuguese Nobel literature laureate José Saramago has returned to the charge against the Catholic Church. This time his target is the Bible itself, which he describes as "a manual of bad morals," and a "catalogue of cruelties and of the worst of human nature."

"About the holy book, I tend to say: read the Bible and you'll lose your faith," said the first, and so far only, Portuguese-language writer to receive the Nobel Literature Prize, which he won in 1998.

In a meeting with the press Wednesday, Saramago repeated the ideas he expressed at an event Sunday in the northern Portuguese town of Penafiel, held to launch his latest book, "Cain", which retells the story of Adam and Eve's first-born son in a light-hearted, irreverent tone.

According to Saramago, there is nothing "divine" in the Bible. And although "Cain" has offended the Church, it won't offend Catholics, he said, because "they don't read the Bible."

It took "a thousand years and dozens of generations" to write the Bible, which depicts a "cruel, spiteful, vengeful, jealous and unbearable God," said the writer, who recommended people not to trust "the God depicted in the Bible."

He said he would not have to settle accounts with God, because "the human brain is a great creator of absurd notions, and God is the most absurd one of all."

Catholic Church officials lashed out at the writer's statements, especially when he said that "without the Bible, we would be different, probably better, people," and that he could not understand how the Bible became a "spiritual guide, when it's so full of horrors, incest, betrayals and slaughter."

"I'm not looking for controversy, but I have a few convictions and I say certain things. None of this is free: Cain has kept me company for many years," Saramago responded to a question from IPS.

Writing this book "was an exercise in freedom for me," said the polemical, provocative writer, who at the age of 86 maintains his rebelliousness intact – the same rebelliousness he showed when he joined the Communist Party, which was driven underground by Portugal's 1926-1974 dictatorship, in 1969.
...
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1. Comment #428251 by rod-the-farmer on October 30, 2009 at 2:20 pm

Hmm. Sounds a bit strident to me. How do you say "strident" in Portuguese ? Maybe he can whistle it ?

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2. Comment #428253 by Lucas on October 30, 2009 at 2:22 pm

Estridente.

Other Comments by Lucas

3. Comment #428254 by ateu luso on October 30, 2009 at 2:26 pm

Nice to see a countryman making the news for all the right reasons!

Saramago is a great writer, with a very particular style that may take some getting used to. He is also a very lucid thinker, and completely unafraid to say what's on his mind.

Of course, as happens with all of us, he's got a few crazy ideas, like fusing Portugal and Spain, creating the Iberian nation :)

Obrigado, José Saramago, por participares na luta pela razão!

Other Comments by ateu luso

4. Comment #428255 by alabasterocean on October 30, 2009 at 2:32 pm

I love Saramago - Hes a great author and a 'will not shut up' non-believer. Sure will read the book.

And yeah, how stupid, ignorant and lazy do the machinery of the Catholic faith look when they judge what thy don't have read? Well, thats like most people of faith: The divine book no one read.

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5. Comment #428256 by Nunbeliever on October 30, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Morujão said the "offensive" terms used by Saramago to refer to the Bible "hurt the feelings of millions of Catholics around the world." He also said the author "does not have sufficient knowledge" of the Bible to write about it.

Oh, poor poor catholics. Millions of people are hurt by the existence of a book. I can't resist to make a comparison between babies and catholics. Both whine and whine for nothing. The difference is that babies grow up. Catholics never do. Wonder how many of these supposedly hurt catholics have actually READ the book and how many that just sort of go along with the martyr game just for the sake of it.

They always tell us non-believers we are too uneducated to criticise the bible. Still when asked exactly WHAT we are missunderstanding they are never capable of giving a straight answer. We are just uneducated, and we get EVERYTHING wrong... you know generally speaking. No need for further inquiry. We simply do not have sufficient knowledge. Period.

Exactly HOW pathetic is that kind of reasoning.

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6. Comment #428259 by TIKI AL on October 30, 2009 at 2:39 pm

"Saramago concludes: "Yes, reader, that's what it really says. The Lord ordered Abraham to sacrifice his own son, as casually as someone asking for a glass of water when they're thirsty…The logical, natural or simply human thing would have been for Abraham to tell the Lord to go to hell." (END/2009)"

...or at the very least Abe should have asked the "Lord" for a picture ID before offing his offspring.

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7. Comment #428261 by Sally Luxmoore on October 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm

A short reading shows 4 Typical RC tactics, a mixture of defensiveness and aggression:

From Jesuit priest Manuel Morujão, who “had not read” the book: (surprise!)
1. The "offensive" ploy- "hurt the feelings of millions of Catholics around the world."
2. Insufficient knowledge of theology jibe – The author …"does not have sufficient knowledge" of the Bible to write about it.

And - From a more senior ‘authority’, Bishop Manuel Clemente of Oporto :
3. A veiled threat (?) - “urged the author to "be more careful and better informed" when writing about Biblical events”.

And the author himself points out:
4. Disinformation -The “unusual speed” at which “the gentlemen of the Church… began to spread opinions and dismissive insults about it and its author."

Business as usual, then.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

8. Comment #428263 by ateu luso on October 30, 2009 at 2:42 pm

Nunbeliever,

I can't resist to make a comparison between babies and catholics. Both whine and whine for nothing. The difference is that babies grow up. Catholics never do.

I think you owe babies an apology. Really harsh comparison, there... They mostly do have a reason for whining, it's just that we may not get it... Spot on for catholics, though! And muslims, and jews, and...

Other Comments by ateu luso

9. Comment #428266 by ArchangelChuck on October 30, 2009 at 2:48 pm

i didn't know condemning evil was considered "strident" nowadays...

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10. Comment #428269 by paulmadsen on October 30, 2009 at 3:01 pm

The title of this post is misleading, as it implies Saramago acknowledges the existence of a God, albeit a mean & spiteful one.

The article makes it clear that it is the Bible's 'depiction' of God that Saramago believes is cruel (and clearly Saramago believes the Bible to be fiction)

Other Comments by paulmadsen

11. Comment #428276 by jgravelle on October 30, 2009 at 3:12 pm

One hopes he's had a similar epiphany regarding his belief in the tenets of the Communist religion, whose adherents are no less ridiculous, even if their temple is as prestigious as our own White House...

-jjg

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12. Comment #428278 by Naranja Mecanica on October 30, 2009 at 3:13 pm

Father Morujão said "reading Cain is not one of his priorities. His frankness is appreciated, but it's still strange when a spokesman does not know what he is talking about."

Brilliant. So, the Father is criticising the writer for "not knowing what he's talking about", having not himself read the book he's having a pop at. Superb work, Father!

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13. Comment #428280 by Szymanowski on October 30, 2009 at 3:18 pm

:O I thought Scaramanga was dead

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14. Comment #428283 by j.mills on October 30, 2009 at 3:29 pm

Morujão said the "offensive" terms used by Saramago to refer to the Bible "hurt the feelings of millions of Catholics around the world."

And this he knows how? Given that almost none of the world's catholics will have even heard of this writer, let alone his comments.

He also said the author "does not have sufficient knowledge" of the Bible to write about it.

And so presumably the vast majority of the world's catholics are unqualified to believe that the bible is true?

Still waiting for the "sophisticated theologians"...

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15. Comment #428284 by Vaal on October 30, 2009 at 3:29 pm

He also had a few choice words for Pope Benedict XVI, saying "Ratzinger has the nerve to invoke God to reinforce his universal neo-mediaevalism

Spot on! LOL

Once you have read the Bible, how can you be anything other than an atheist?

Other Comments by Vaal

16. Comment #428289 by mitch_486 on October 30, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Well, that was enough for me to run out and purchase one of his books.

"Death with Interruptions" - fascinating

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Death-with-Interruptions-A-Novel-Jose-Saramago-Margaret-Jull-Costa/9780547247885-item.html?ref=Search Books: 'death with interruptions'

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17. Comment #428292 by PabloDF on October 30, 2009 at 3:43 pm

Saramago has read and obviously understands the Bible a lot better than most Catholics around the world. I need to get my hands on "Cain". If you haven't read "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ", do it. It's a beautiful story, not an atheist book but very nice theological fiction (well, that was redundant).

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18. Comment #428293 by Apathy personified on October 30, 2009 at 3:44 pm

What a legend.

And although "Cain" has offended the Church, it won't offend Catholics, he said, because "they don't read the Bible."

Ha. This really needs to be highlighted more - Do the religious actually know what their holy books say? Do they fully understand the implication of following it blindly?

Edit: Does anyone know which, if any, of Saramago's books have been translated to English?

Other Comments by Apathy personified

19. Comment #428296 by wthorlay on October 30, 2009 at 3:51 pm

Living in Brazil, a Portuguese speaking country, I can only say that Saramago is really "estridente" because he deserves to be. Saramago is really fed up of those Christian fundamentalists that unfortunately are the majority in the Latin countries.

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20. Comment #428300 by rod-the-farmer on October 30, 2009 at 3:59 pm

What is the difference between Catholics and babies ? Easy. Babies taste better.

(atheist switch, off)

Actually, babies smell better.

Most of the time.

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21. Comment #428303 by robotaholic on October 30, 2009 at 4:07 pm

wow this guy sounds awesome- I agree with his every 'vile' word

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22. Comment #428310 by JHJEFFERY on October 30, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Tiki Al
"The Lord ordered Abraham to sacrifice his own son, as casually as someone asking for a glass of water when they're thirsty…The logical, natural or simply human thing would have been for Abraham to tell the Lord to go to hell."

Less well known, especially by Christians who listen to their clergy instead of reading the damn thing (Bible) itself, is that god is willing to accept a human sacrifice of Jephthah's virgin daughter (Judges 11:1-40). I actually had a born again friend of mine argue that since Jephthah made a contract with god, god was justified in enforcing the contract even if it devastated poor Jephthah. He seemed to ignore the fact that it was the innocent daughter who got burned alive.

Some book.

JHJ

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23. Comment #428312 by HourglassMemory on October 30, 2009 at 4:35 pm

I've read the book. It's a great read. People talk about how offensive it is...me being a person who agrees with him actually found it quite a fun read. It's funny.
It's not a theological text or anything. It's just a fun read.

The guy literally holds no regret with what he writes. He's the kind of writer who looks at something and just says..."No", and he changes the story masterfully.
He puts curse words in it and everything.

The sense I got from it is that it's a very personal problem that Saramago has with stories in the bible, and he makes the character of Cain go through them, as a vehicle for Saramago's criticisms. Anyone from here will readily agree with and enjoy what he writes.

It's the character of Cain jumping from Bible story to Bible story and just shaking its head, so to speak, and having problems with what's there. From Abraham and Isaac to Adam and Eve to Sodom and Gomorrah to the tower of Babel to Noah's Ark. I think there's one or two more.

The part with Abraham and Isaac is very very cool.
At a certain point he calls god (the portuguese equivalent to) a son of a bitch, and in a recent interview, where he was asked about him being rather open about his problems with the deity and the bible, and the violent words he uses, he said that "Yes...perhaps I shouldn't have called God a son of a bitch...he doesn't have a mother."

He also begins the book quoting a verse from the bible, and then he sources it to "The Book of Nonsense".

I think all of his books have been translated, except this most recent one. But it's a matter of time.

I'm surprised that a lot of people haven't heard of him. Non belivers that I turn to and say "But you'd love to read what he has to say about religion!"

If you guys are interested in this one, then you're going to have to read "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ". I finished reading it for the first time a few days ago and it really is a great read. It turns the story on its head. And the writing is great.
It makes things more down to earth. It makes the characters, especially Jesus, more human. And he also spends quite a bit of time with Jesus the child and teenager.
The ending is just a big slap in the face to believers.
It's a beautiful wagging of the finger at god.

And yes, even though he puts a clear character of god in his stories, Saramago himself is an atheist. When he puts god in the stories it's usually to make him a heartless prick.

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24. Comment #428324 by mitch_486 on October 30, 2009 at 4:54 pm

18. Comment #428293 by Apathy personified on October 30, 2009 at 3:44 pm

See my post (16. Comment #428289) for a link to amazon, several (if not, all) of his books have been translated.

Other Comments by mitch_486

25. Comment #428327 by Affront on October 30, 2009 at 5:08 pm

'Not looking for controversy'! What is he like when he is looking for it?

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26. Comment #428333 by SaintStephen on October 30, 2009 at 5:31 pm

Saramago concludes: "Yes, reader, that's what it really says. The Lord ordered Abraham to sacrifice his own son, as casually as someone asking for a glass of water when they're thirsty…The logical, natural or simply human thing would have been for Abraham to tell the Lord to go to hell."

¡Ay, caramba!

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27. Comment #428353 by mordacious1 on October 30, 2009 at 6:46 pm

Hopefully, this will be out in English soon. In the meantime, I recommend "Death with Interruptions", in which Saramago describes what happens when death takes a holiday. When the Prime Minister brings in a catholic cardinal to explain what's going on: "The church has never been asked to explain anything," the cardinal assures the prime minister. "Our specialty, along with ballistics, has always been the neutralization of the overly curious mind through faith."

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28. Comment #428354 by DoctorE on October 30, 2009 at 6:47 pm

The who???
There is no god.. the authors of the books are all that above ;)

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29. Comment #428355 by Jos Gibbons on October 30, 2009 at 6:51 pm

If the Catholic Church will claim a guy who got a Nobel Prize for writing novels doesn't know how to read stories, then they'll never admit anyone who disagrees with them has a point, ever. I thought so!

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30. Comment #428360 by righton on October 30, 2009 at 7:00 pm

"And although "Cain" has offended the Church, it won't offend Catholics, he said, because "they don't read the Bible.""

HAHA!

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31. Comment #428365 by ateu luso on October 30, 2009 at 7:17 pm

Apathy personified,

I think all his books (certainly from the 80's onwards) have been translated at least into english, french and spanish (with the exception of Caim, as it's so recent).

Not having read them all, I'd certainly recommend "The gospel according to jc", "The cave" (one of my favourites, especially if you're into philosophy and Socrates), "Blindness", "Death with interruptions" and "The year of the death of Ricardo Reis".

I should point out I've only ever read them in portuguese, so I'm not sure how they translate, especially into a non-latin language such as english. However, judging from earlier posts, I'd say the books translate pretty good...

Enjoy!

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32. Comment #428368 by Luis Dias on October 30, 2009 at 7:20 pm

Oh come on! This is SOOO Last week news!!

They had a debate and all, Saramago and a priest. He's too old though, to make a good confrontation.

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33. Comment #428369 by Sally Luxmoore on October 30, 2009 at 7:22 pm

Julia Sweeney is very funny on the effect on her as a catholic of reading the bible for the first time - in her wonderful monologue, 'Letting Go of God'.
She is now an atheist.

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34. Comment #428391 by Crazycharlie on October 30, 2009 at 8:39 pm

Jose' Saramago is like those "New Atheists",--muito estridente e militante.

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35. Comment #428395 by snowbourne on October 30, 2009 at 9:04 pm

I knew I admired this author when I recently finished his book, 'Death With Interruptions'. The book was creative and very thought provoking. Now I see he is a person I can admire, also, for his atheistic opinions!

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36. Comment #428410 by Mr DArcy on October 30, 2009 at 10:40 pm

Cain? Now if I'm right he's the character who killed his own brother out of jealousy, and then went on procreate with his sister(s). Adam and Eve must have been really proud of him. A great start for Christianity!

I always reckon the best books have a corpse or two in the first chapter! For TV, a corpse before the first adverts works wonders. The Bible certainly starts off the way it carries on. Right there in Genesis Onan is smited for the deadly crime of spilling his "seed upon the ground". No wonder Catholics don't bother to read the Bible!

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37. Comment #428411 by mjwemdee on October 30, 2009 at 10:48 pm

I'd never heard of this guy, but he sounds like a man after my own heart.
I will certainly start reading him.

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38. Comment #428412 by AIFEsteves on October 30, 2009 at 10:55 pm

For your information: Saramago's «The gospel according to Jesus Christ» http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gospel_According_to_Jesus_Christ was banned, by the then conservative government (1992), from a list of books to be presented by the culture ministery to an international literature competion.

That censorship incited an informal campaign for Saramago's Nobel and ended to be a huge slap in the face of the catholic church and the people involved.

The main responsable, secretary of culture, Sousa Lara, a pro-monarchy, catholic fundamentalist with far-right connections justified his decision on the grounds of religious abuse and offense by the book. In the following years, the person in question would appear involved in finantial scams and in very deshonest practices...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Portugal

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39. Comment #428426 by os2krnl on October 31, 2009 at 12:05 am

As someone who lives in a portuguese language country (brazil) surrounded by religion apologetics and shamanistic nonsense. I have tears of joy that, despite his age, he still sharp and lucid.

Being an skeptic outspoken person around here is asking for social suicide, which gladly many of us accept the burden. (;

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40. Comment #428452 by jusdefacts on October 31, 2009 at 3:07 am

Comment #428276 by jgravelle
One hopes he's had a similar epiphany regarding his belief in the tenets of the Communist religion, whose adherents are no less ridiculous, even if their temple is as prestigious as our own White House...

Are you for real? Typical Republican blind-spot in action. When are you people going to realise the difference between social democracy and Communism? Your president seems to want to help the vast number of borderline poor created by the last Republican administration. Looking out for his people...how could you possibly object to that? Your savage malignant shortsightedness, conflating compassion with Communism, and then acting on that absurdity, is symptomatic of the way extremists within the Republican fold have polarised all debate in the U.S. The sad thing is, like many Americans,that you've so bought into this bizarre cognitive dissonance you can't even see how deeply wrong you are. The sooner more American working-class people "rise... from their slumbers" the better you'll all be.
Also, Communism per se isn't a religion...it's an ideology. It only took on the trappings of religion in the hands of megalomaniacs, as part of their personality cults.

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41. Comment #428467 by Neil Schipper on October 31, 2009 at 5:29 am

While it may seem nice to have a prominent author on one's side, look also for superficiality and moral vanity. I would expect a writer to have a bit more
insight about the story of Abraham and the sacrifice.

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42. Comment #428500 by Apathy personified on October 31, 2009 at 11:12 am

Thanks for the replies mitch_486 and ateu luso.

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43. Comment #428595 by G_Wyn on October 31, 2009 at 6:22 pm

Luis Dias,
This is NOT so last week news, because, as you can read, a lot of people have never heard of Saramago, never read his books, or held unjustified opinions of him.
Saramago may be old but he's been an outspoken atheist for many decades, and this in a devout country like Portugal.. (actually, I think he now lives "in voluntary exile" on Lanzarote or s'thing). I have an enormous amount of respect for Saramago, and he is one of the greatest writers alive.

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44. Comment #428634 by lastgreekstanding on October 31, 2009 at 11:09 pm

I'd never heard of this guy, but he sounds like a man after my own heart.

I will certainly start reading him.

Blinded

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45. Comment #428677 by G_Wyn on November 1, 2009 at 7:56 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Saramago

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46. Comment #428764 by Mr DArcy on November 1, 2009 at 8:50 pm

The sooner more American working-class people "rise... from their slumbers" the better you'll all be.

Couldn't agree more! Christianity in particular appears to have a strong narcotic hold over many Americans. Mind you Christianity is on the up in "communist" China as well. Religion: one method of thought control, to be encouraged or discouraged according to the state of submission of the local population. Religion, (Christianity), was actively encouraged in England in the 19th century after the rulers had seen the results of the French Revolution. No wonder Darwin had a hard time with his conscience!

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47. Comment #428804 by Ned Flanders on November 1, 2009 at 11:44 pm

"Estridente"

Isn't that overcooked pasta?

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48. Comment #429032 by Stonyground on November 2, 2009 at 8:27 pm

After reading the Bible all the way through, the thing that struck me was the casting of the god Yahweh as the good guy and Satan as the Baddie. Surely they have it the wrong way around.

Yahweh: Mass murderer, Bully, Vain, Stupid, Sadist, Liar, breaker of promises and self confessed creator of evil.

Satan: Polite, Truthful, Witty and intelligent. The only person he harmed was Job and that was at the behest of Yahweh to settle a bet.

As mentioned in the OP, most Catholics have not read the Bible and are in no position to accuse some one who has of not knowing enough about it.

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49. Comment #429261 by robotaholic on November 3, 2009 at 4:56 pm

Comment #428452 by jusdefacts

Spot On!

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