1. Comment #428367 by Sally Luxmoore on October 30, 2009 at 7:18 pm

This is most unpleasant and I have no desire to read any further, but most of all, I did not understand who or what it was about.
So - for others similarly puzzled, here is the wiki entry on Westboro Baptist Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church
"The organization is known for picketing at public events and funerals, often those related or peripherally related to gay people or soldiers in the military."

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2. Comment #428370 by Border Collie on October 30, 2009 at 7:26 pm

Sally ... I've not read it yet either. I do have a feeling that I can make somewhat of a good guess about it, though. The Westboro Baptist Church is probably one of the most unpleasant public groups of people in the Western Hemisphere. There are a number of videos and stories about their activities on Google, YouTube, etc.

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3. Comment #428372 by Josh Timonen on October 30, 2009 at 7:28 pm

The preface is very revolting, and unfortunately doesn't really encourage one to read further. This is an article for those interested in religion as child abuse (and religion used to justify physical abuse), in one of its most disgusting forms.

EDIT: I've changed the extract shown here from the preface to a more pleasant bit from the beginning of the first chapter. Click through to the site if you'd like to read the whole piece.

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4. Comment #428382 by Sally Luxmoore on October 30, 2009 at 8:06 pm

Thanks Josh. Much more understandable now. (I watched the Louis Theroux clip, but couldn't get the Michael Moore one to open up).
Richard's reaction to Nate Phelps's talk was appropriately very sympathetic. It's awful that that vile man seems to have escaped punishment.
Poor brainwashed people.

Edit: Have now read the whole of Nate's speech. It is very moving and I have considerable respect for him.
But - What about all the other children? How can the authorities be allowing them to stay with such a man as Fred Phelps? It may be too late for legal action on Nate's behalf, but what about the others?

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5. Comment #428423 by Border Collie on October 30, 2009 at 11:53 pm

I just read "Why isn't that man in jail" ... I was raised almost exactly like him. It's a very accurate representation of how things were in the US at that time. In Texas, divorce was almost impossible, very shaming and families literally forced abused women to stay in abusive marriages. Women also had a very difficult time making enough money to support children. In a sense, literally, there was no place to turn. Law enforcement officials, lawyers, judges and such simply didn't give a shit, much like today. They blamed all problems on the women and supported the men. Men, like Fred Phelps (and my father) threaten everyone in the immediate family (and many time others outside the family) with death on a regular basis. For those of you who've not been threatened with death as a child and seen the other members of your family threatened with death on a regular basis, let me assure you that it has an effect. And, if one has been abused, beaten, etc. from a very early age (mine started at two weeks), like Mr. Phelps said, it becomes indistinguishable from "normal". There is also the issue of mistrust of outsiders. That is, one's entire existence is enmeshed within the abuse sphere and from the abused's perspective, there is simply no where to go, no one to turn to. And, typically, it seems that alcoholism and religion are involved. Millions of us baby-boomer children lived through this partly because our father's came back from WWII totally fucked up. I'm not saying we're the first generation to experience this, but it was bad, nevertheless. Most never received any psychological help and turned to alcohol. This is only the surface of the tip of the iceberg of the psycholgy of abuse, but I understand Nate Phelps perfectly. I wish him peace and sanity.

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6. Comment #428490 by Flapjack on October 31, 2009 at 9:41 am

@ Border Collie - Sounds like a clearcut case of Stockholm syndrome to me. It's easy for outsiders to say "Why didn't everyone else in the family simply leave the old bastard", but I guess when you're in the thick of that kind of all consuming regime, outside perspective simply doesn't filter in.

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7. Comment #428492 by Flapjack on October 31, 2009 at 10:27 am

In other news the senate has just passed a gay hatecrimes bill, though I can't tell if this would be any more effective in bringing Fred Phelps to justice. It still protects his freedom of speech.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/23/us-senate-passes-matthew-shepard-hate-crimes-bill/

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8. Comment #428514 by Prankster on October 31, 2009 at 12:57 pm

Got to chapter 2-I feel ill, sick, repulsed and unclean-sick sick sad individual, this Phelps feller.

Yech....

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9. Comment #428555 by Border Collie on October 31, 2009 at 4:11 pm

Flap ... Is that Satan contemplating an intelligently designed banana or is he trying to figure out how to fossilize and bury it so as to test our faith later? What, no transitional banana fossils?!

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10. Comment #428577 by Border Collie on October 31, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Lest I imply that religion and alcoholism are necessary factors, they are not. This sort of thing exists regardless. However, in many cases, the non-religious alcoholic is the overt abuser and the religious "victim" is only the covert, complicit abuser, allowing it to happen because it fits well with their view of strict, Christian discipline.

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11. Comment #428607 by crookedshoes on October 31, 2009 at 7:25 pm

They call themselves "god hates fags" and they picket soldiers funerals claiming that gay people are somehow to blame for the war and most "bad" things that are going on. I have repeatedly heard the woman in charge of this "church" on Howard Stern. She is a cult leader who lacks every likeable trait that typical cult leaders has. She is not charismatic, pretty, smart, well spoken....It is for that reason that every member of her "church" is also a family member. She is a smug hate filled low life and comes across worse than I've described her.

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12. Comment #428647 by crookedshoes on November 1, 2009 at 1:26 am

I apologize, as I think I've mixed my groups of bigoted Baptists. Many apologies....

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13. Comment #428660 by Border Collie on November 1, 2009 at 3:07 am

Crooked ... I'd say if the shoe fits ... You did nail it ... It is she ... pick a church, pick any church ...

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14. Comment #428885 by Flapjack on November 2, 2009 at 10:25 am

@ Border Collie - Actually, contrary to what Ray Comfort has told you, Satan designed the banana to give people naughty thoughts ;)

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15. Comment #428911 by SaintStephen on November 2, 2009 at 2:05 pm

5. Comment #428423 by Border Collie on October 30, 2009 at 11:53 pm

Comment ranked as Excellent.

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16. Comment #428914 by keddaw on November 2, 2009 at 2:39 pm

Can't wait to read this, will go well along with my flicking through Mein Kampf (simplistic Keynesian economics about the inter-war economic plight of the German economy and every point concluding that it's the Jew's fault - would make for an excellent Poe were it not for the obvious outcome.)

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17. Comment #429360 by Border Collie on November 4, 2009 at 2:44 am

Thanks, Saint ...
I felt that what I wrote was fractured and incomplete, but I didn't want to go on forever. Unfortunately, such abuse is still going on all over the world, still creating personal and societal problems, as we see every day. Maybe as, and if, more of us talk about it, we can begin to mitigate it to a degree. I think of the thousands of little boys, and little girls, growing up for no other reason than to blow themselves to bits to fulfill some idiotic religious agenda of their psychotic parents. The cognitive dissonance created by 'We love you and want you to die' must rip their little minds and hearts to shreds.

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