1. Comment #431782 by jeremynel on November 14, 2009 at 2:48 pm

I'm going to take the optimistic route here: this is victory. The violent threats reflect poorly on the notions of "religious tolerance", "Christian goodness" and such, the sign is still going up, and its cause has been given free publicity.

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2. Comment #431783 by Gaz on November 14, 2009 at 2:50 pm

I think the sign looks better in the second location anyway - more people will see it driving along the freeway than if it were stuck on the side of an old warehouse.

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3. Comment #431784 by jaytee_555 on November 14, 2009 at 2:50 pm

Just in case people need reminding, we are shown once again what some 'people of faith' will do to free speech if and when they think they can get away with it.

Just imagine what they'd do if they could succeed in breaking down the wall of separation between state and religion that is gauranteed by the Constitution.

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4. Comment #431789 by blakjack on November 14, 2009 at 3:29 pm

Quote: jeremynel: "I'm going to take the optimistic route here: this is victory."

It is indeed a victory – “shooting oneself in the foot” springs to mind. Now in a far better location but would be even better if a supplementary sign said: “moved to here following threats”

Jack

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5. Comment #431792 by madame_zora on November 14, 2009 at 3:38 pm

Ha, I'm right here and I missed the whole she-bang. Being a native Cincinnatian I don't doubt the threats, although it is also likely that the building owner had a problem with it. I'm glad to see that Lamar Advertising continues to support us on the basis of being able to pay for their service, this is how it should be.

What's so horrible about telling people they aren't alone? Atheists exist, and we're tired of having to keep our opinions to ourselves, while the religious prattle on in every aspect of our lives. John Welte, who is the president of the Free Iquiry Group of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky, along with his wife Fran who is also dedicated and tireless in promoting secular values, makes a good frontman for our cause.
It is exciting to see some movement here, I almost fainted when I first learned that the sign campaign was coming. No doubt the publicity from this minor scuffle will do us more good than harm.

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6. Comment #431793 by Dhamma on November 14, 2009 at 3:43 pm

Great, more publicity. They're shooting themselves in the foot making all the fuss about it.

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7. Comment #431795 by Jos Gibbons on November 14, 2009 at 3:57 pm

There have been many incidents like these in the past year or so with out buses, billboards etc. - goes up, comes down, news story, goes up elsewhere. A Gandhi quotation seems relevant here: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." That may be the secret to how he had such surprising (at the time) success. Hopefully we shall follow suit. It's going to be a fun century.

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8. Comment #431796 by wildhog on November 14, 2009 at 4:04 pm

What if atheists turned the tables on believers?

Christians believe that those who dont believe what they believe will be burned in a lake of fire for eternity by a god who would never do anything unfair. In other words, christians belief that atheists and other non-christians DESERVE to burn for eternity.

(If there is a more negative and condescending attitude you can have towards someone, I'd sure be curious to hear what it is!)

The billboard in this article doesnt attack christians or their beliefs. It merely tells atheists there is a group of like-minded people they can join. Yet believers responded with threats of violence.

I cant help but wonder how believers would react if atheists stepped up their rhetoric to match the level of condemnation and vilification that christians have towards atheists. What if the billboard had said,

IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, ITS TOO BAD THAT HELL DOESNT REALLY EXIST BECAUSE YOU DESERVE TO BURN FOR ETERNITY FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

I wonder what the christians would have done then?

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9. Comment #431797 by prettygoodformonkeys on November 14, 2009 at 4:04 pm

I only wish this one had said "You can be good without god". The irony would have been perfect.

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10. Comment #431798 by artisfact on November 14, 2009 at 4:20 pm

At first I was skeptical of godless billboards and the like, but to see religious hypocrites react to them is the best advertising we can get. Keep em' coming!

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11. Comment #431799 by root2squared on November 14, 2009 at 4:35 pm

Barbarians.

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12. Comment #431801 by Max of Earlobes on November 14, 2009 at 4:48 pm

See how the parties of God show such compassion and humility!

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13. Comment #431803 by sidelined on November 14, 2009 at 4:53 pm

I also find this to be reason for optimism. That the only way the people who are against the message can communicate is by threats shows that they have no arguement to offer as a rebuttal to us.
Just another sign that reason will win and that the ignorance of such moves will slowly disappear into the past.
Desperation on the part of these people methinks. Rather like a fish caught in a slowly evaporating puddle.

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14. Comment #431804 by spetroxx on November 14, 2009 at 5:12 pm

Wildhog for President! Love the new billboard idea!!!

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15. Comment #431805 by TIKI AL on November 14, 2009 at 5:14 pm

You have to admit the message on that sign is a little harsh for the godbots to digest in one viewing.
We should soften it a bit:

"If you believe in God you are probably the victim of child abuse and generational brainwashing.

We are sorry that you are intellectually incapable of thinking for yourself."

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16. Comment #431806 by ImagineAZ on November 14, 2009 at 5:14 pm

1. Imagine atheists making multiple and serious threats until the nearest church takes down their sign.

2. If these God buffs really want to make a point, why not fly a few planes into our meeting places?

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17. Comment #431808 by Nunbeliever on November 14, 2009 at 5:41 pm

I guess we should change the lyrics of that old Green Day song. It should go like this:

"Don't wanna be an american (conservative christian) fascist"

How on earth do you americans stand all this bullshit??? I would go totally apeshit-crazy!

But from my safe home here in Europe I can only say THANK YOU to the conservative christians. Can't you see this kind of attention is worth MORE than a thousand billboards :-) Well, they aren't exactly famous for being the brightest bulbs on the porch...

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18. Comment #431809 by MarcCountry on November 14, 2009 at 5:44 pm

Clearly, the religious folks should have just altered the text of the signs in a guerrilla graffiti campaign:

Don't Believe in God? You Are Not ALLOWED!

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19. Comment #431810 by phil rimmer on November 14, 2009 at 5:47 pm

I'm pleased to see Lamar Advertising behaved well.

The content of the sign now seems perfectly judged- so mild and yet so disturbing. The point about the suppression of atheists within society is made with perfect clarity to the moderately religious.

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20. Comment #431817 by NiceMrSmith on November 14, 2009 at 6:05 pm

Some premiership douchebag apparently commented:

""My thoughts? I think the sign needs to come down. Its atheist. Its going to cause problems around all the churches, not just catholic, but lutheran, baptist, all of them," said Jack Jones of Downtown.

My first thought of the appropriate reaction to this was "Well go fuck yourself then"

But being a nice reasonable chap i'll elaborate further....You are finding your church and others are having problems because of a billboard? Your religious institutions are going to struggle in the face of some ten foot high lettering?

Hilarious level of insecurity really.

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21. Comment #431818 by refuteist on November 14, 2009 at 6:14 pm

I had an uncle who ran his own "mission to the natives" in a nearby village to ours (in the Uk) He always had a message between the cross and down bars of his bike (REPENT YE FOR THE END IS NIGH ETC.")

I objected most strongly when my father gave him my old bike which got the same treatment, but in the interests of free speech I let it go.

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22. Comment #431819 by fossil-fish on November 14, 2009 at 6:20 pm

Just a thought, but is it possible that some knuckle dragger of faith didn't understand the question mark?

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23. Comment #431821 by mordacious1 on November 14, 2009 at 6:31 pm

21. Comment #431817 by NiceMrSmith

My first thought was that they couldn't find anyone to interview, being in an isolated area near the freeway, so they found some homeless guy to get an opinion on the sign. The interviewee seemed to be living under the freeway. It's nice that he's found jesus, but look where that's got him.:)

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24. Comment #431823 by Border Collie on November 14, 2009 at 6:36 pm

Again, I can't drive a block without seeing some religious signpost of some sort or other which "offends" me, but they've been doing it for so many centuries they believe it's OK and normal for them to admonish, quote scripture to and threaten anyone and everyone without regard to other's feelings.

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25. Comment #431824 by andrew.trapp on November 14, 2009 at 6:36 pm

The treatment of atheists here is so very much like the treatment of black people a half-century ago. The xtians want us to sit down and shut up. They want us to be as nonexistent as their god, but failing that, they'll settle for atheism being silent and invisible.

Which, of course, is all the more reason we need to speak up. Atheists are here to stay, and we will not be silent and allow ourselves to be stepped on by the xtian supremacists.

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26. Comment #431828 by God fearing Atheist on November 14, 2009 at 7:11 pm

Yet again, every time the godbotherers sound off the atheists get more free publicity.

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27. Comment #431830 by blitz442 on November 14, 2009 at 7:30 pm

2. Comment #431783 by Gaz on November 14, 2009 at 2:50 pm


I grew up in Cincinnati, and I agree with you. It will probably have more visibility in the second location if you can see it from I-75. That area near Liberty street is pretty shitty anyway.

Also, the reaction to this sign does not surprise me one bit. Cincinnati is one of the most conservative areas in the country; during the presidential elections of the past eight years it was a fortress for conservative Republicans.

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28. Comment #431832 by Seamus Reason on November 14, 2009 at 7:44 pm

It would be so, amenable, I suppose, if everyone could just feel like this was ok, it worked out for the better, let's move on.

The individual(s) that forced this situation were anything but agreeable to such a notion.

I'm beginning to think there's a subtle but important difference between us here. My newfound tendency is to subscribe to Hitchen's views when dealing with radicalized individuals. From my readings here over time, many if not most here do not subscribe to some of his views. However that may be, some individuals on our pale blue dot will not "give in" to reason - ever.
In my opinion, the defense of secular ideals will one day need to combat these radicalized individuals, for I do not see those elements of society reconciling their differences in a reasonable manner.

Though I infrequently post here, I don't mean to make myself a pariah. But as much as I agree with Dawkins and the rest, it still seems to me that no matter how many attacks by religious extremists befall us, some just won't accept that some times an equal and opposite reaction is necessary.

With all this focus on terrorism, why aren't our agencies seeking out this type of individual? No one here knows if they are or aren't, but my mind tends to think that fellow Christians in these agencies simply will not take this task to heart.

Well, got that off my chest, sorry, good day.

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29. Comment #431836 by Saerain on November 14, 2009 at 8:14 pm

18. Comment #431808 by Nunbeliever on November 14, 2009 at 5:41 pm

I guess we should change the lyrics of that old Green Day song. It should go like this:

"Don't wanna be an american (conservative christian) fascist"

How on earth do you americans stand all this bullshit??? I would go totally apeshit-crazy!

Mostly, we do it by unawareness of—and indifference toward—most things outside our home city and everything outside our home state.

It's a very big country and the states are so independent from each other, politically almost nations unto themselves, that what happens in Alabama or Ohio really doesn't concern those of us in California or Massachusetts. Or rather, wouldn't concern us even if we heard about it in our media. Har har.

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30. Comment #431847 by legless on November 14, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Don't you just love the tolerant and peaceful Christians? It's their hypocrisy that gets on my tits, if you dare to contradict our message of peace and love we will damage you and/or your property. Why don't they understand that if you have to resort to threats to protect your so called peaceful beliefs then there's something amiss with your beliefs?

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31. Comment #431849 by hayden_scott on November 14, 2009 at 9:57 pm

It's too easy to see these threats as resulting from divergent views on god, but clearly the problem is more complicated, having to do with America's foreign policy, disengagement, poverty, etc., :)

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32. Comment #431853 by Witticism on November 14, 2009 at 10:25 pm

The irony of 'strident and shrill' behaviour from (reportedly) faithheads! Lol!

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33. Comment #431854 by Nails on November 14, 2009 at 10:34 pm

I think that most people here are missing the point.

To the religious zealots, this is a victory.
They wanted it moved, and they got it.
Violence and religion go hand in hand, however much they cry that "my god is a god of peace".

The irony and hypocrasy are merely par for the course.

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34. Comment #431859 by Notstrident on November 15, 2009 at 12:05 am

I've noticed that when comments by the "man in the street" about our billboards or bus signs are printed, it is only rarely that they include any "pro" or even neutral comments. And I don't think that's because such a great majority of the comments are negative; I'm afraid it's because the reporters choose which ones to quote.

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35. Comment #431862 by zeerust2000 on November 15, 2009 at 12:18 am

It amazes me that people can make a serious case for this sign being offensive in any way. I suppose they'll be describing it as "strident" next. As I've posted before.....I can't think of a more gentle, positive message than this. And it's a message that can actually help people who feel isolated because of their non belief. So what if there are non-believers in your midst? Do the Xians think that if this sign stays then it's a slippery slope all the way to devil worship in the woods at midnight?
Maybe the next sign should be "So, you think you're an asshole? You're not alone"

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36. Comment #431866 by Nunbeliever on November 15, 2009 at 12:32 am

To Saerain:

It's a very big country and the states are so independent from each other, politically almost nations unto themselves, that what happens in Alabama or Ohio really doesn't concern those of us in California or Massachusetts.

Yes, that's true. Here on the other side of the "water pool" we often mistakenly shear all americans over the same comb. I guess that's because we mostly see the results of your foreign policy. During the Bush-era it was almost impossible to explain that not all americans are like Bush. I guess it's starting to shift a little, but europeans still have A LOT of prejudices about USA.

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37. Comment #431869 by mjwemdee on November 15, 2009 at 1:06 am

Am I being stupid and naive? (I'm from the UK so forgive me if I don't quite get the American 'take' on this) but what exactly were the threats? Was the landowner threatened with hellfire and brimstone? Some sort of metaphysical horror of that sort? Or was it like - a contract on his life?

Either way, the theists really don't have anything left in their arsenal, do they?

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38. Comment #431870 by russkid on November 15, 2009 at 1:06 am

This is really no different than the cross that has been boxed up http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/05/supreme.court.veterans.cross/index.html.

Belief or lack thereof being advertised ... the same rules should apply to both. Sorta makes me wonder when personal subscribtion is not enough and that everyone else must be prompted to agree in order garner support. Take it all down.

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39. Comment #431874 by prolibertas on November 15, 2009 at 2:49 am

Wow. All that sign says is that we exist. It's tamer than the mildest, friendliest criticism possible.

Imagine if the billboard said what we really think.

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40. Comment #431875 by Dinah55 on November 15, 2009 at 2:51 am

I grew up in Cincinnati, "escaped" for twenty years, and recently resettled here. Am already planning my "final escape". Until I left town and saw other cities and countries, I did not realize just how conservative my hometown is. Coming back has been a real shock. It seems as there is a church on every corner, and strangers are experts at inserting several "Praise Jesus" or "Thank Jesus" in their opening statements of introduction. When I read the atheist billboard campaign had one planned for Cincinnati, I just knew there would be fireworks. I fully expect the billboard to be vandalized repeatedly and in the end burnt down. It would not surprise me at all. I have been reading a bit in the local comment threads for this story and it is sickening how people are insulting each other on both sides. For the most part, though, it is the pro-billboard folk who are mainly keeping their cool and stating facts instead of emotional beliefs. Thanks to the billboard I have joined a local atheist group and will attend their meeting next week. I didn't even THINK to look for an atheist group in Cincinnati. That would be like looking for water on the sun.

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41. Comment #431876 by ggab7768 on November 15, 2009 at 3:42 am

russkid
That would only be valid if the cross represented a generic belief in a higher being. The problem with the cross is that it represents, and therefore respects, a particular religion. This is an issue for those of other faiths AND those of no faith.

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42. Comment #431879 by steveroot on November 15, 2009 at 3:49 am

23. Comment #431819 by fossil-fish on November 14, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Just a thought, but is it possible that some knuckle dragger of faith didn't understand the question mark?

I hope you don't mind if I borrow this phrase; I laughed out loud. And it is a thoroughly plausible idea that some imbecile thought it was a command. For those of slightly higher IQ, the lack of tolerance is striking.
Steve

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43. Comment #431880 by steveroot on November 15, 2009 at 4:55 am

You don't see anyone protesting this:
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/10913
Fair?
Steve

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44. Comment #431884 by mordacious1 on November 15, 2009 at 5:25 am

39. Comment #431870 by russkid

Your link doesn't work, but I think you're referring to the cross on PUBLIC land. In case you don't see the difference, I put it in caps.

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45. Comment #431887 by rod-the-farmer on November 15, 2009 at 6:06 am

There are well over 700 comments on the original article. Move along folks, nothing new here.

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46. Comment #431889 by RightWingAtheist on November 15, 2009 at 6:37 am

The subtle and humble nature of the message, if you can even call it a message, is what makes it so astounding to see the objections.

Regarding the US being so large and diverse...

Distance from NY CITY to LOS ANGELAS:
3940.1 kilometers

Distance from LONDON to BAGHDAD:
4096.1 kilometers

And NY-LA is not even the longest line one could draw across the US...
From Bangor (Maine) to San Francisco:
4471.7 kilometers

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47. Comment #431893 by MRA on November 15, 2009 at 8:49 am

Even if the poster comes down, it did its job - awareness raising. Then there is also a story in why it came down - more awareness raising.

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48. Comment #431899 by JemyM on November 15, 2009 at 11:20 am

The video begins with... "The controversial billboard questioning the existence of God"... no it doesn't. It say that if you do not believe in God you are not alone.

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49. Comment #431900 by JemyM on November 15, 2009 at 11:42 am

""My thoughts? I think the sign needs to come down. Its atheist. Its going to cause problems around all the churches, not just catholic, but lutheran, baptist, all of them," said Jack Jones of Downtown."

Jesus died not for your sins, but because he caused problems for the religious community. He died for his blasphemus views, his questioning of dogma, his questioning of religious authority.

"In the present age—which has been described as “destitute of faith, but terrified at scepticism,” —in which people feel sure, not so much that their opinions are true, as that they should not know what to do without them—the claims of an opinion to be protected from public attack are rested not so much on its truth, as on its importance to society. There are, it is alleged, certain beliefs, so useful, not to say indispensable to well-being, that it is as much the duty of governments to uphold those beliefs, as to protect any other of the interests of society. In a case of such necessity, and so directly in the line of their duty, something less than infallibility may, it is maintained, warrant, and even bind, governments, to act on their own opinion, confirmed by the general opinion of mankind. It is also often argued, and still oftener thought, that none but bad men would desire to weaken these salutary beliefs; and there can be nothing wrong, it is thought, in restraining bad men, and prohibiting what only such men would wish to practice.

This mode of thinking makes the justification of restraints on discussion not a question of the truth of doctrines, but of their usefulness; and flatters itself by that means to escape the responsibility of claiming to be an infallible judge of opinions. But those who thus satisfy themselves, do not perceive that the assumption of infallibility is merely shifted from one point to another. The usefulness of an opinion is itself matter of opinion: as disputable, as open to discussion and requiring discussion as much, as the opinion itself. There is the same need of an infallible judge of opinions to decide an opinion to be noxious, as to decide it to be false, unless the opinion condemned has full opportunity of defending itself. And it will not do to say that the heretic may be allowed to maintain the utility or harmlessness of his opinion, though forbidden to maintain its truth. The truth of an opinion is part of its utility. If we would know whether or not it is desirable that a proposition should be believed, is it possible to exclude the consideration of whether or not it is true? In the opinion, not of bad men, but of the best men, no belief which is contrary to truth can be really useful: and can you prevent such men from urging that plea, when they are charged with culpability for denying some doctrine which they are told is useful, but which they believe to be false? Those who are on the side of received opinions, never fail to take all possible advantage of this plea; you do not find them handling the question of utility as if it could be completely abstracted from that of truth: on the contrary, it is, above all, because their doctrine is “the truth,” that the knowledge or the belief of it is held to be so indispensable. There can be no fair discussion of the question of usefulness, when an argument so vital may be employed on one side, but not on the other. And in point of fact, when law or public feeling do not permit the truth of an opinion to be disputed, they are just as little tolerant of a denial of its usefulness. The utmost they allow is an extenuation of its absolute necessity or of the positive guilt of rejecting it."

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty 1859

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50. Comment #431907 by AfraidToDie on November 15, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Is there a way for atheists to file for a minority status? If officially a minority status, wouldn't any such threats come under the "hate crimes" laws and force the government to investigate and prosecute? That would be extremely powerful!

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