Tuesday, November 17, 2009 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version

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Scientist's Dino Findings Making Waves

60 Minutes - CBSNews.com

Thanks to rod-the-farmer for the link.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/12/60minutes/main5629962.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

(CBS) There is something about dinosaurs that captures the imagination - giant, mysterious animals that roamed the Earth for millions of years, now gone forever.

All they've left us are their fossils, the dried-out mineral remnants of the creatures they once were, with the organic material that gave them life long gone. Or so everyone always thought.

Until B. "Rex," a 68 million year old Tyrannosaurus Rex, who was dug up and named by a paleontologist from Montana State University whose unorthodox approach to dinosaurs may be changing the whole dino ballgame.

When thinking of dinosaurs, most of us think "Jurassic Park," the 1993 classic film about a dinosaur resurrection experiment gone wrong, and its embattled hero, famed paleontologist Alan Grant.

60 Minutes correspondent Lesley Stahl met Jack Horner, the real-life Alan Grant who consulted on all of the "Jurassic Park" movies.

Fortunately for him, Horner joked, Grant didn't get eaten.

Jack Horner is one of the most prominent and controversial paleontologists in the country - a dyslexic MacArthur Foundation genius who never finished college, and who says he doesn't care why dinosaurs went extinct.

To him, the important part is how they lived. "I'm trying to figure out the biology of dinosaurs and what they were like as living creatures," he told Stahl.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/12/60minutes/main5629962.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #432495 by Coppo on November 17, 2009 at 5:24 pm

Didn't they do this in Red Dwarf? ;-)

Seriously, if they did manage to get preserved soft tissue then even extracting part of the DNA would be valuable. But, do we need to re-create a dinosaur? after all their environment is also "extinct"...

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2. Comment #432497 by TIKI AL on November 17, 2009 at 5:29 pm

I believe reverse evolution will be successful on the dinos. It has already brought us 2 time Bush voters.

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3. Comment #432509 by DocWebster on November 17, 2009 at 5:48 pm

I don't think they're talking about bringing dinosaurs back through reverse engineering but just turning on ancestral genes to emulate creatures that birds evolved from. Even if all of the genes needed exist to take modern birds back to their dino roots, finding all of the switches to flip in just the right order would be a monumental task.

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4. Comment #432518 by supereben on November 17, 2009 at 6:00 pm

If we could recover dinosaur genes from fossils, it would probably help us to know which switches to flip to make a dino-bird.

I think it would be great to bring back extinct species. Not to reintroduce them into the wild, but to study them and be inspired by them. I would love to visit a (secure) Jurassic Park!

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5. Comment #432525 by Raherin on November 17, 2009 at 6:29 pm

"I would love to visit a (secure) Jurassic Park!"

My thinking exactly!

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6. Comment #432531 by Jos Gibbons on November 17, 2009 at 6:38 pm

Shock! Horror! News flash! Birds are dinosaurs! ... Why are they acting as if everyone shouldn't already know this fact? Honestly - asking experts if they agree on it. As for resurrecting dinosaurs, I shall believe it when I see it. I'd try something easier sooner, like mammoths.

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7. Comment #432533 by Dhamma on November 17, 2009 at 6:39 pm

I doubt a real dinosaur would be able to survive in our ecosystem, when so much has happened the last 65 million years.

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8. Comment #432536 by Mitch Kahle on November 17, 2009 at 6:44 pm

@TIKI AL
I believe reverse evolution will be successful on the dinos. It has already brought us 2 time Bush voters.

STOP INSULTING DINOSAURS.

Bushies obviously evolved from a common ancestor with bacteria.

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9. Comment #432541 by glenister_m on November 17, 2009 at 6:49 pm

The dinochicken idea was explained quite well on a Discovery channel program the other month. Basically you are not trying to extract DNA from fossils, merely trying to reactivate ancient genetic pathways in a chicken while deactivating the modern bird pathways.

We've known for years that birds still retain the ability to make teeth (transplanting bird tissue that would make teeth in mammals but doesn't in birds, into the tissue that signals teeth development in mammals, causes the development of reptilian teeth in the tissue). The tv special showed that when you deactivate the genes that stop tail development in chickens, that you get a longer tail than you normally see embryologically. So basically the idea is grow a tail, grow teeth, change wings back into arms, reduce or remove feathers (£), etc. and you end up with a pseudodinosaur. They suggested using a more primitive bird like a emu rather than a chicken though.

Why should we try to do this£ (Other than for the glee of the dinosaur-lovers around the world who would love to see a 'living dinosaur'.) For starters to learn more about genetic pathways and how they control development. Secondly to learn more about the behaviour of dinosaurs - presumably a dinochicken with a different body form would behave differently from a bird.

I was surprized by the 'within 5 years' quote on 60 Minutes. Or should I say delighted, I thought it was going to be much longer than that.

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10. Comment #432543 by zengardener on November 17, 2009 at 6:51 pm

If they manage to make a Dino-Chicken, I will gladly take a hiatus from being a vegetarian, just to see what they taste like.

Kung Po Rex

Mmmmmmmmmmm.

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11. Comment #432547 by godlezz on November 17, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Wow... I'm going to make sure I'm the 2nd the last person in line, you know just to be on the safe side...

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12. Comment #432550 by Shiva on November 17, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Interesting ;D

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13. Comment #432564 by vega on November 17, 2009 at 7:27 pm

You want T-rexes in the New York sewer system? You go right ahead...

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14. Comment #432593 by EoghainOKeeffe on November 17, 2009 at 8:22 pm

That was very interesting. However, I found the presenters enthusiasm seemed a little forced, as if she really wasn't all that interested in the subject. Jack Horner was great, though.

Has anybody read his book? I would like to get it, but the only review on amazon seems fairly negative.

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15. Comment #432625 by DrawingYou on November 17, 2009 at 9:30 pm

Bringing back a dino could help with the world food shortage. Hmmm I bet dinosaurs taste like chicken.

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16. Comment #432628 by SilentMike on November 17, 2009 at 9:39 pm

Living tissue in dinosaur fossils?

The creationists are going to have a field day with this. "These fossils can't be millions of years old" they'll say, "proof of dinosaur on Noah's ark" they'll call it.

I'm not optimistic about the dino-chicken though. trying to "turn off" genes may cause all types of problems, as evolution may have made use of those genes' operation. It may be that the best one could get by turning genes on and off is some barely surviving creature. It may teach us a lot about dinosaurs, but I doubt it would be much to look at. We may do slightly better if we try to actually change the bird's genetic makeup.

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17. Comment #432645 by prolibertas on November 17, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Awesome! I want dinosaur-egg omelette.

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18. Comment #432648 by alexo on November 17, 2009 at 10:33 pm

Hmm I can see it now: Kentucky fried Ceratops - its arm lickin' good!

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19. Comment #432649 by Bonzai on November 17, 2009 at 10:34 pm

Awesome! I want dinosaur-egg omelette.

Hope you don't die of a cholesterol overdose.

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20. Comment #432665 by Jos Gibbons on November 17, 2009 at 11:17 pm

Comment #432628 by SilentMike

Living tissue in dinosaur fossils?

The creationists are going to have a field day with this. "These fossils can't be millions of years old" they'll say, "proof of dinosaur on Noah's ark" they'll call it.

Something similar has happened before, when protein fragments in T-rex bones were misrepresented by creationists as liquid blood (they exaggerated it gradually through Chinese whispers, no offence meant to any Chinese of course - comparison to creationists is unfair). At any rate, their idea was that only something young could do that. I wish the shock hadn't been hyped so much by CBSNews. The crucial truth is we have much better evidence of the veracity of radiometric dating than we do of the lifetime of biochemical structures. The outcome of all this is that it is the latter which is now undermined. Note that palaeontologists have responded to this by being more careful with fossils (as per the video), which they wouldn't do if they weren't convinced by this discovery. But YECers won't feel satisfied.

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21. Comment #432668 by rod-the-farmer on November 17, 2009 at 11:23 pm

OK, what odds do I get for the idea that cretinists will come totally unglued if they get close enough to actually re-creating (pun intended) a dinosaur ? Verbal attacks ? Violence ?

"You are trying to become god." Eeeeevil.

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22. Comment #432683 by SilentMike on November 18, 2009 at 12:41 am

20. Comment #432665 by Jos Gibbons

Bah! creationists!

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23. Comment #432733 by FrankStrandli on November 18, 2009 at 2:36 am

Not all of the genes from ancient dinosaurs have made it down to a chicken. Surely there are certain characteristics you cannot switch on, because they haven't been inherited?

So what will actually be made will be a freak chicken, like no other animal that has lived before. And you'll have big sheds, that nobody is allowed in and inside these big sheds are 20ft high chickens, and these chickens are scared, they don't why they're so big... they go "Oh! Why am I so massive?" and they look down on all the other little chickens and they think they're in an aeroplane, because all the other chickens are so small. Does anybody deny this? ....... No, your silence speaks volumes.

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24. Comment #432744 by Mbee on November 18, 2009 at 4:35 am

Shock! Horror! News flash! Birds are dinosaurs! ... Why are they acting as if everyone shouldn't already know this fact? Honestly - asking experts if they agree on it.

I agree Jos there is nothing new here (although they may have made more progress in the last few years in extracting DNA). I saw most of this info displayed in the 'Museum of the Rockies' in Bozeman Montana over 2 years ago. I'm sure that this scientific information was 'news' when it was first announced. 60 minutes is acting like it is something new now.

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25. Comment #432762 by mordacious1 on November 18, 2009 at 7:59 am

Dammit people! Everytime they suggest bringing back an extinct species, all you guys can do is talk about eating it. *shuffles off to see what's in the fridge*

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26. Comment #432785 by Southpaw on November 18, 2009 at 10:21 am

"You are trying to become god." Eeeeevil.

It's just like Professor Farnsworth says. "Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain, but put it in the body of a Great White Shark and ooooooo! you've gone too far!"

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27. Comment #432789 by bachfiend on November 18, 2009 at 10:43 am

"Has anybody read his book? I would like to get it, but the only review on amazon seems fairly negative" EoghainOKeefe comment #15.
I have read it (on a Kindle) due to the interview on the Skeptics Guide to the Galaxy several weeks ago. I enjoyed it. It's fairly evenhanded, discussing his colleague's, Mary Schweizer's, discovery of collagen in T rex fossils, and her purported detection of red cells and dinosaur blood protein (which I'm somewhat sceptical about, since she is using rabbit antibodies to bird proteins- I can't see that protein would survive intact antigenically 65 million years), but he does say that the later part hasn't been confirmed, and there is an alternate view that it just represents (bacterial) biofilms.

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28. Comment #432819 by Mr DArcy on November 18, 2009 at 2:00 pm

Let's send Banana Man a Pteryducktil for Xmas!

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29. Comment #432824 by curly on November 18, 2009 at 2:31 pm

How is dinosaur tissue (like that in blood vessels) supposed to escape being replaced by minerals?

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30. Comment #432830 by mitch_486 on November 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm

7. Comment #432533 by Dhamma on November 17, 2009 at 6:39 pm

I thought this as well. A major problem would be oxygen levels. I don't think it would be that big of a deal with a reverse engineered chicken, though.

14. Comment #432593 by EoghainOKeeffe on November 17, 2009 at 8:22 pm

Yes, I have read it. Jack Horner's passion for the topic is obvious, making the book a highly enjoyable read.

Also, never rely on amazon reviews.

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31. Comment #432917 by RightWingAtheist on November 18, 2009 at 6:22 pm

I say bring on all of the novelty genetic engineering and make the world interesting. I want to see dinosaurs for sale at Wal-Mart next to the bicycles. I want hicks on the side of the highway selling tiny elephants with no vaccine papers. I want to feed palm-sized zebras to the croc-o-ducks at the park. I want to read about stupid tourists getting eaten by dimetrodons at the zoo. I want to see Greenpeace battling Japanese fishermen over liopleurodon hunting.

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32. Comment #432927 by Vaal on November 18, 2009 at 6:40 pm

15. Comment #432625 by DrawingYou

Bringing back a dino could help with the world food shortage

Yep, 7 billion hominids for the dino to scoff!

Hopefully it will get a taste for creationists, although their brains are probably a bit rubbery. Excellent idea :)

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33. Comment #433196 by sillygirl on November 19, 2009 at 4:39 pm

RightWingAtheist, NO! NO! NO! No dinos at Walmart. I work at Walmart, and I'm NOT cleaning that up.

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34. Comment #433369 by birdman on November 20, 2009 at 3:42 am

The dinosaurs I have at home love to play, eat peanuts, and the even go on hikes... http://images52.fotki.com/v642/photos/7/1587727/8140956/PICT0082-vi.jpg

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35. Comment #433819 by DrawingYou on November 22, 2009 at 12:06 am

36. Comment #433837 by GOTT MIT UNS on November 22, 2009 at 6:54 am

@mordacious1
"Dammit people! Every time they suggest bringing back an extinct species, all you guys can do is talk about eating it."

By making them useful by using them as food would guaranty their survival beyond just a curiosity.

DrawingYou,
You draw a valid point. Your pragmatism makes an absolute sense to me.
Turning dino-chicken into an edible item would guarantee an influx of unlimited funds from the food companies, which would be more than happy to sponsor this amazing, mind-boggling evolution-in-reverse, bio-genetic-culinary research (not to mention publicity aspect!).
I am a vegetarian but I am prepared to make a first donation if this enterprise goes ahead.
I can always enjoy a dino-chicken omelet which I would share with my christian fundamental neighbours who still believe in the "6 days creation, which happened 6000 years ago."

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