1. Comment #433046 by Diocletian on November 19, 2009 at 12:15 am

The banana-man takes the biscuit:

A gracious man once said, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” However, it seems that some contemporary atheists don’t share such honorable convictions. When they found out that I was writing an Introduction to this book, they threatened lawsuits, tried to organize themselves into gangs with the intent of tearing the Introduction out of the book, and have even talked about book burnings:
“Perhaps we should just call for a book burning!”
“In this instance, I would advocate book-burning.”
“I'm not into burning books, but this one deserves to be.”
“Anyone up for a large bonfire?”
It would seem that atheists insultingly see themselves as the intellectual saviors of those who haven’t the brainpower to think for themselves.

http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/business/PDFFillable/REG_TRUE.pdf

I can hardly wait to see GANGS of ATHEISTS roaming the streets in RDF hoodies.

Other Comments by Diocletian

2. Comment #433048 by Rikitiki13 on November 19, 2009 at 12:35 am

So, this guy is attempting to get the jump on atheists who might ridicule him.
Hmm, sounds like he's LEARNING.
Maybe that means he's EVOLVING!£
Wouldn't that be against his own rules£

Other Comments by Rikitiki13

3. Comment #433051 by a non e-moose on November 19, 2009 at 12:43 am

if Diocletian's quotes are legit and not out of context, he/she raises a valid point. anyone who's been advocating book burnings, or even lawsuits should be ashemed of themselves.

edit: Draining resources of theses scammers is a-ok in my book though. also, is it actually banana man himself?

Other Comments by a non e-moose

4. Comment #433052 by Sandra S on November 19, 2009 at 12:47 am

1. Comment #433046 by Diocletian

I thoroughly doubt anyone called for a book burning as anything more than a joke. Oh, and by the way, taking a few individuals as representative of a group is quite demonstrative of bigotry.

Other Comments by Sandra S

5. Comment #433054 by TIKI AL on November 19, 2009 at 12:50 am

Will they also be giving out some "Pray for Obama, psalm 109:8" T shirts that I saw on Rachael Maddow last night?:

The psalm reads, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." The one right after it says, "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."

Godbots are such great products of intellyjunt deezine, no?

Other Comments by TIKI AL

6. Comment #433058 by Rawhard Dickins on November 19, 2009 at 1:19 am

OK Banana man, God made himself then went on to create the universe. Now go away please.

Other Comments by Rawhard Dickins

7. Comment #433061 by bigvolcano on November 19, 2009 at 1:27 am

Hey can some one get me a copy?(I will pay for it) and send it to Australia- My old version is almost worn out and this one looks good to lend to my friends.

And can someone ask banana man- can he also release the rest of Darwin's work i would like to collect the whole set!!!

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8. Comment #433063 by cherryteresa on November 19, 2009 at 1:37 am

Does anyone know if they are visiting ALL the campuses on the list today.. or are some for tomorrow? I actually posted about how they're coming to Johns Hopkins University on twitter. JohnsHopkins is on my friends list and s/he actually retweeted it! I had a link to that page about what to do when they come to campus and the printout of the flyers to hand out. I don't know who runs the JohnsHopkins page on twitter, but I thought that was pretty awesome. I hope they didn't come to JHU yet because I'm hoping the followers on twitter will read it and hopefully be prepared and print out the flyers (the ones who agree that their publication is filled with a bunch of b.s.).

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9. Comment #433068 by cherryteresa on November 19, 2009 at 1:52 am

What the first commenter/Diocletian wrote is on this page:

http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=383

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10. Comment #433070 by Sandra S on November 19, 2009 at 2:01 am

9. Comment #433068 by cherryteresa

At least he ended with his name, that way people know to disregard what was written.

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11. Comment #433071 by cherryteresa on November 19, 2009 at 2:02 am

http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=411:origin-of-species-campaign-enrages-atheists&catid=100&Itemid=274&lang=en

Some of the students who got this book are angry.

"Student - After Reading Your Introduction
I got your book for free today on my campus. I was excited b/c I thought that
someone was finally standing up to the religious wackos that show up all the
time. Apparently I was wrong. I was reading the introduction and I was stunned
by all of the simplification and exaggeration used to try and make a point. It
was really ridiculous, and I don't understand how anyone who is well informed
about the standing of the theory of evolution in the scientific community could
be convinced of anything by it. It is well known that evolution is widely
accepted by scientists and the highly educated. Quoting a few people with doubts
about small parts of the theory does not make the theory false, and it does not
make its broad acceptance false either. Those who believe in the theory do so
because of the strong evidence that they can personally investigate, not because
they are just being told to believe it by others. Therefore, you should have ..."

Other Comments by cherryteresa

12. Comment #433072 by black wolf on November 19, 2009 at 2:02 am

Apparently they handed out a mix of abridged and the newer unabridged copies. They originally claimed that printing/handing out the unabridged in such numbers would be too costly, then upped the number of universities where they would be doing it, and now they've apparently noticed they have enough loose cash to throw out some more.
IIrc they were and still are also selling the book, so either they had no clue about how many copies they actually would have available, or they weren't honest about their plans. Being somewhat acquainted with Comfort's MO by now, I wager it's a bit of both. He often makes bold announcements and issues challenges, only to rescind them or relativise them later, making flimsy excuses about how it was intended this way all along.
On his blog, Comfort asserts that they made a short-term change of plans, but I don't believe that it's even possible to move a nationwide concerted event by a day just like that. It's just one of the usual publicity stunts that will fail to impress anyone but those prepared to be impressed by anything Cameron/Comfort do anyway. He knows all he has to do is advertise to his customer base, making them believe he's sincere and successful at evangelising and propagandising against evolution - which again he is only with his sycophants anyway.

Other Comments by black wolf

13. Comment #433073 by Alternative Carpark on November 19, 2009 at 2:06 am

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14. Comment #433075 by cherryteresa on November 19, 2009 at 2:07 am

The second paragraph is my favorite.
http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=411:origin-of-species-campaign-enrages-atheists&catid=100&Itemid=274&lang=en

"Concern Case Western Student - Unfair Argument
I admit I am quite surprised at how clever this ploy was. Putting a biased
introduction before the Origin of Species was really clever. However what was
not clever was critiquing an out of date scientific argument in an attempt to
make the current version of the theory look stupid. It will work on the feeble
minded but those who actually look at things objectively will not be duped.

Secondly, the flow of all of these books onto the Case Campus has put unneeded
strain on our recycling services. Several recycling bins are full, almost
entirely filled with copies of this book. Please don't waste so much paper and
make the lives of our custodial staff more difficult than it already is."

Other Comments by cherryteresa

15. Comment #433081 by rpcla on November 19, 2009 at 3:00 am

COMFORT DRIVES ME INSANE!!! I HATE THAT DOUCHE.

Other Comments by rpcla

16. Comment #433086 by RightWingAtheist on November 19, 2009 at 3:48 am

I guess I have to be the odd one again and object to the act of taking multiple copies just to toss them.

Other Comments by RightWingAtheist

17. Comment #433087 by sillygirl on November 19, 2009 at 3:50 am

Please don't pretend not to believe there are idiot atheists out there going over the top with stupid threats about book burning. It is not that unusual for passion to override sense.

That about the recycling bins was priceless, though.

Other Comments by sillygirl

18. Comment #433098 by Lucas on November 19, 2009 at 4:44 am

Banana Man, why do you hate the custodial staff so?

Hey, where's the list of schools?

EDIT: Found it. On PZ's site's thread. Quoting some dude:

“Here is the original list:
1. Princeton University (NJ) www.princeton.edu
2. Harvard University (MA) www.college.harvard.edu
3. Yale University (CT) www.yale.edu
4. Stanford University (CA) www.stanford.edu
5. University of Pennsylvania (PA) www.upenn.edu
6. California Institute of Technology (CA) www.caltech.edu
7. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MA) web.mit.edu
8. Duke University (NC) www.duke.edu
9. Columbia University (NY) www.columbia.edu
10. University of Chicago (IL) www.uchicago.edu
11. Dartmouth College (NH) www.dartmouth.edu
12. Washington University in St. Louis (MO) www.wustl.edu
13. Cornell University (NY) www.cornell.edu
14. Brown University (RI) www.brown.edu
15. Northwestern University (IL) www.northwestern.edu
16. Johns Hopkins University (MD) www.jhu.edu
17. Rice University (TX) www.rice.edu
18. Emory University (GA) www.emory.edu
19. Vanderbilt University (TN) www.vanderbilt.edu
20. Notre Dame (IN) www.nd.edu
21. University of California - Berkeley (CA) We have this one.
22. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) www.cmu.edu
23. University of Virginia (VA) www.virginia.edu
24. Georgetown University (DC) www.georgetown.edu
25. University of California—Los Angeles (CA) www.ucla.edu
26. University of Michigan—Ann Arbor (MI) www.umich.edu
27. University of Southern California (CA) We have this one.
28. University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill (NC) www.unc.edu
29. Tufts University (MA) www.tufts.edu
30. Wake Forest University (NC) www.wfu.edu
31. Lehigh University (PA) www.lehigh.edu
32. Brandeis University (MA) www.brandeis.edu
33. College of William and Mary (VA) www.wm.edu
34. New York University (NY) www.nyu.edu
35. University of Rochester (NY) www.rochester.edu
36. Georgia Institute of Technology (GA) www.gatech.edu
37. Boston College (MA) www.uiuc.edu
38. University of Wisconsin—Madison (WI) www.wisc.edu
39. University of California—San Diego (CA) www.ucsd.edu
40. University of Illinois—Urbana - Champaign (IL) www.illinois.edu
41. Case Western Reserve University (OH) www.case.edu
42. University of Washington (WA) www.washington.edu
43. University of California—Davis (CA) www.ucdavis.edu
44. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) www.rpi.edu
45. University of Texas—Austin (TX) www.utexas.edu
46. University of California—Santa Barbara (CA) www.ucsb.edu
47. University of California—Irvine (CA) www.uci.edu
48. Penn State University—University Park (PA) www.psu.edu
49. University of Florida (FL) www.ufl.edu
50. Syracuse University (NY) www.syr.edu
Rumor has it, it has been expanded to 100 schools, however. Many student groups on various college campuses are doing sometime in response - including tabling and setting up their own speakers on evolution.”

I'll run down to Columbia tomorrow and see if anyone is there.

Other Comments by Lucas

19. Comment #433099 by Blue Monster 65 on November 19, 2009 at 4:49 am

Heh heh heh ... Lucas - I think your comment needs to be spammed over and over and over and over again to Comfort's site.

Book burnings? I'd dearly love to see proof that anyone said that. But I won't hold my breath there, either.

Other Comments by Blue Monster 65

20. Comment #433104 by Sciros on November 19, 2009 at 6:37 am

By the way, my brother just came by and said "hey, look what I got on campus today! A brand-new copy of Origin of Species!"

:facepalm:

Anyway I showed him Comfort's banana video, and now he's pissed off hahah

Other Comments by Sciros

21. Comment #433105 by Sandra S on November 19, 2009 at 6:46 am

17. Comment #433087 by sillygirl

Of course there are atheists fully capable of being serious about it. However,in this case I'm pretty sure these quotes were taken from comments on Pharyngula, and the general atmosphere there (at least that I sense) is usually very sarcastic (no doubt reinforced by PZ's constant use of sarcasm). Ergo I think it's far more likely that the people who wrote it in the first place were joking.

It is very much something I could've joked about, but I would never dream of actually doing it.

P.S. Please try to ignore any typos, poor grammar or lack of coherence, it's 7:45 am and I've slept barely four hours...

Other Comments by Sandra S

22. Comment #433106 by Roy_H on November 19, 2009 at 6:49 am

Does each copy come with a free banana?

Other Comments by Roy_H

23. Comment #433115 by andersemil on November 19, 2009 at 8:42 am

If the idiot had actually written the book himself, it would be a terrible crime to burn it. But the bastard took a wonderful book and turned it in to a piece of crap, obviously without any consent from the original author, so in my mind it fully deserves to be burnt, eaten or shat on (maybe all three! not necessarily in that order)

Other Comments by andersemil

24. Comment #433117 by UncleVanya on November 19, 2009 at 9:00 am

Diocletian: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Absolutely. If Comfort or any of his colleagues were actually going to be jailed or otherwise suffer genuine persecution for distributing the books, then I'd be at the front of the queue to protest about that, and I'm sure the same goes for most on this (and PZ's) site. But to invoke Voltaire's quote about these books being swiped is a little melodramatic.

Secondly, the attitude of respect towards one's opponent in a debate is largely reserved for opponents who bring genuine thought and intellectual honesty to their side of the table. The Comfort edition of Origin is a wilful distortion of fact, deliberately misleading, and that's quite a different proposition.

To take a few similar examples, imagine that (assuming you're a Christian, I might be wrong about that) activists are distributing, outside your Church on a Sunday morning, a "new edition" of the bible, containing a lengthy foreword detailing new research which shows clearly that Jesus ran a brothel for several years in his late twenties£ Or that, on the fourth of July, "special editions" of the US constitution are distributed in public places, with a foreword explaining that the US is the source of all evil in the world, complete with images of children disfigured by agent orange£

Might you be tempted to swipe a few copies and put them in the recycyling£ If you did, would that mean that you are against free speech, or that you won't tolerate any discussion of Christianity or the impact of US foreign policy£ I'd say "no", not least because what you would be facing would not be genuine, honest attempts to engage in debate.

Other Comments by UncleVanya

25. Comment #433120 by John Locke on November 19, 2009 at 9:11 am

siblings of a friend, who were hard up for cash/lazy had a novel (pun intended) use of harry potter in their bathroom...perhaps andersmil has struck upon something. at least the book provides 50 odd pages of material ;) the rest could be used for what it was originally intended.

Other Comments by John Locke

26. Comment #433123 by Quine on November 19, 2009 at 10:02 am

This is nothing like pulling books out of a library or school and burning them. If Ray gives you a book, you can do whatever you want with it. There is no attempt to stop Ray from saying what he wants to say, and it is also available as a free download from his website. So, as long as you don't go swipe a box of them off him, there is no "book burning" issue.

If I had one, I would simply put it on my bookshelf next to my other editions of Origin, and take it down, from time to time, to show visitors what an idiot Ray is.

Other Comments by Quine

27. Comment #433126 by Rich Wiltshir on November 19, 2009 at 10:21 am

When it's dark; there'll always be a little Ray of Dope

Other Comments by Rich Wiltshir

28. Comment #433129 by rod-the-farmer on November 19, 2009 at 10:58 am

I wonder if there was a concerted effort to photograph the individuals handing out the books, and posting them someplace, so their identities might be determined. Many of those who saw them feel they were "from outside", and not students of the relevant universities. Or would taking & posting photos be considered harassment ?

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

29. Comment #433131 by John Locke on November 19, 2009 at 11:04 am

i wonder if it would be too inflammatory to write a prologue in the bible? my personal favourite is a disclaimer along the lines of "all characters represented in this book are entirely...etc..."

but then too many comparisons will be drawn (by the god squad) between the books. after all i don't lead my life by the gospel of darwin - i just happen to think its an exemplary work of intellect and a milestone in our development as humans - one of many.

Other Comments by John Locke

30. Comment #433137 by SoManyStars on November 19, 2009 at 12:21 pm

Not since papperbok have I wanted to read a book so much.

Other Comments by SoManyStars

31. Comment #433145 by sillygirl on November 19, 2009 at 12:54 pm

While I don't hold any particular book to be sacred, I am one who considers books in general sacred. Any sort of burning, even of these that are already vandalized, is very ugly and makes me uncomfortable.

Other Comments by sillygirl

32. Comment #433146 by Roger Stanyard on November 19, 2009 at 12:55 pm

Comfort's claim

When they found out that I was writing an Introduction to this book, they threatened lawsuits, tried to organize themselves into gangs with the intent of tearing the Introduction out of the book, and have even talked about book burnings:

Is somewhat colourful given that he apepars not to have written the introduction. It's a complitation of cut and paste plagarism which puts him in the possible position of legal action and the pulping of his entire print run.

Buit then, Banana Man isn't very bright.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

33. Comment #433149 by Roger Stanyard on November 19, 2009 at 12:59 pm

According to one blog source I read this morning, copies of Comfort's new book were being handed out to students at Oxford University (in the UK).

Can anyone confirm this?

Banana Man has his own distribution operation in the UK (it used to share premises with Truth in Science) so he has teh wherewithall to pull this off.

Turth in Science, which appears to be dead from its testicles upwards, is currently silent on the matter.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

34. Comment #433155 by John Locke on November 19, 2009 at 1:44 pm

wanton destruction of books out of ignorance, and if done indiscriminately, is indeed wrong. but its what the books represent and a principle that is the point

books are merely vehicles for thought. just as a ridiculous thought can be disparaged, so can a ridiculous book. the defending of the concept of all books as being sacred assumes too much. it assumes that books are knowledge themselves.

its the imagery and implications that arise from burning books deliberately and the intentions behind it that are the issue - not the books themselves as such, such is the symbolism of savonarola's famous little bonfire and those before and after him in history.

Other Comments by John Locke

35. Comment #433170 by Logician on November 19, 2009 at 3:06 pm

@ Rich Wiltshir, #27:

That, my friend, is the best thing said about this man I've ever heard.
I'm going to work on getting a T-shirt made with his picture and that quote under it.
Those in the know will understand appreciate your priceless humor.

Well done!

Other Comments by Logician

36. Comment #433172 by cherryteresa on November 19, 2009 at 3:12 pm

24. Comment #433117 by UncleVanya on November 19, 2009 at 9:00 am

Very well said.

At the end of the day, while I'm not glad they're handing out these books under the deception that it's a collector's edition of On The Origin of Species, I like that the www.dondissdarwin.com site is up because of it. I am going to print and save those flyers for later use. I often come across conservative Christian/Young Earth Creationist types who make the same arguments the book does, and sometimes I really just don't want to get into a scientific explanation of why they're wrong (nor am I really qualified to do it), but I also don't want to NOT say something. I see some social situations where I can just hand them the paper or read from it.

Other Comments by cherryteresa

37. Comment #433175 by AtheistYeti on November 19, 2009 at 3:22 pm

Christians are dumb.

Other Comments by AtheistYeti

38. Comment #433183 by sillygirl on November 19, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Go ahead and try it, but mostly they can't hear you. They have their fingers in their ears and are going "LALALALALA."

Other Comments by sillygirl

39. Comment #433187 by sdando on November 19, 2009 at 4:17 pm

Sadly I missed them as they came a day early here in Cleveland as well. Funny that they were here not only during the campus wide Year of Darwin but on the very day that the Institute of Science Origins here at the university held a free lecture at the museum of natural history by 4 of the Ardi scientists.

There was a lot of official publicity by the University about those 2 events and a deafening silence about Ray Comfort's stunt.

Not hard to figure where the University stands on the issue.

I wonder who these people who showed up on the campuses to pass out these books really are? Seems like they must be outsiders. Good luck trying to convince people on this campus.


By the way, at the AAS meeting in Boston today a fossil dubbed the "Duck Croc" has been revealed for the first time. Kirk Cameron must be rolling over in his grave.

Other Comments by sdando

40. Comment #433192 by Border Collie on November 19, 2009 at 4:31 pm

I have faith ... that their stupidity will be their undoing.

Other Comments by Border Collie

41. Comment #433207 by Colwyn Abernathy on November 19, 2009 at 5:11 pm

Because I can't resist, it's amusing, and I vow to get it stuck in everyone's head...

http://doodoodoodoodoo.ytmnd.com/

MOO-HOO-HA-HA!

EDIT:

I would've posted a reference to one of my favourite short series growing up, but Carpark beat me to it. They used to show them as filler between DangerMouse and Count Duckula on Nickelodeon.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

42. Comment #433213 by mitch_486 on November 19, 2009 at 5:50 pm

It's entirely within my character to, after having a copy handed to me, rip the introduction out on the spot.
I see that everyone has their own way of handling this issue. Many are trying to be the better man by showing a bit of class and letting anyone who receives this steaming pile of Ray dung decide for themselves.

It's quite a simple formula for me: I reference all the stupid indulgences religions often undertake, as well as all the harm that follows close behind. That builds up a sufficient amount of frustration and anger and I can then, literally, rip the pages out of a book. Instead of having a book like this circulating a campus, I'd sooner have the pages (paper) returned back to the environment where some critters can do something much more constructive with it.

But that's just me.

Other Comments by mitch_486

43. Comment #433238 by Jeremy Collins on November 19, 2009 at 7:49 pm

I am a big fan of the idea of THE BIBLE (Introduction by Richard Dawkins).

Other Comments by Jeremy Collins

44. Comment #433246 by Steven Mading on November 19, 2009 at 8:13 pm

I would consider Ray to be well within his rights if he had published the words in the content of his introduction as its own seperate book. But that's not what he did here. He is trying to pass off his own screed as having something to do with someone else's work. Furthermore, he edited that someone else's work to remove some of the strongest evidence against his screed and tried to pass that off as still being the same original work by the original author. No, that's not free speech, its reverse plagerism. Ray has every legal right to write his words in his own work. He does not have the right to alter someone else's work and try to pass it off as the full unabridged original person's work.

What really irks me about his stunt is how by doing this he managed to trick computerized databases of book listings so they end up counting his work as being "just another" republication of the original work, thereby mixing up reviews of his version with reviews of the original work. Amazon.com believed when people were reviewing Ray's book with poor reviews that they were really giving that poor review to Darwins' content rather than to Ray's content, and thus the ratings of On The Origin Of Species took a hit when Ray published his trash.

Free speech does not include the right to plagerise another's work as your own, nor does it include the right to do reverse plagerism - to change another person's work and claim your changed version is what they originally wrote.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

45. Comment #433259 by Stonyground on November 19, 2009 at 8:36 pm

I have to say that I am 100% against book burning. Since the invention of the printing press book burning may have been only a symbolic act but the wilful destruction of other people's thoughts and ideas can never be condoned no matter how evil or crass you believe them to be.

Bananaman is wrong and he proves that by resorting to such underhanded and dishonest methods. We have excellent, reasoned arguments to support the assetion that he is wrong. Yes of course he is going to do real harm by leading the less educated astray, but not as much harm as the idea that censoring unpopular opinions is acceptable. If he has edited the Origin to suit his own agenda then we only have to point that out and direct readers to the original to prove his dishonesty beyond doubt.

Other Comments by Stonyground

46. Comment #433281 by root2squared on November 19, 2009 at 9:36 pm

Burning books? That is quite barbaric. We're supposed to recycle!

Other Comments by root2squared

47. Comment #433286 by Lucas on November 19, 2009 at 9:51 pm

Or at least re-roll so as to make a finer cone...

Other Comments by Lucas

48. Comment #433288 by Quine on November 19, 2009 at 9:52 pm

Is pressing the erase key on your Kindle "book burning"?

Other Comments by Quine

49. Comment #433293 by mitch_486 on November 19, 2009 at 10:12 pm

This is quite scary...

http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-Anniversary-Charles-Darwin/dp/0882709194/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258667394&sr=8-2

Look at the "frequently bought together" space for the full effect.

Other Comments by mitch_486

50. Comment #433294 by RightWingAtheist on November 19, 2009 at 10:15 pm

It's not the destruction of books as a concept that bothers me. By "waste" I meant to use up the supply by taking more copies than you intend to read (for most people here, that is probably zero). It may be a "free" book, and therefore legal to take for any reason, but any such offer has an implied intention that books are for people who plan to read them. Not only do I consider it legal theft (the legal part adding no moral excuse), it just seems pathetic to use some kind of ploy to cut off someone's words by physical means.

Other Comments by RightWingAtheist