1. Comment #434467 by chalkers on November 24, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Exmormons are the coolest!

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2. Comment #434469 by bouwe on November 24, 2009 at 12:20 pm

First day and she's got her period...I thought that happened after The Fall?

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3. Comment #434471 by Ygern on November 24, 2009 at 12:22 pm

Much as I love the idea of Mr Deity & Larry being cowed and browbeaten by his latest creation and a pretty amusing one too, I have never in my life met a woman who behaves like that.

I really enjoy the Mr Deity episodes, but this one, well, I wasn't sure exactly whether the rather simplistic caricature of a rather vacuous and irrational woman was meant to be funny.

They could have achieved a hapless and helpless Mr Deity horrified at his new female creation by some other route.

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4. Comment #434472 by Rawhard Dickins on November 24, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Brill!

Now I know it wasn't just my last 9 girlfriends!

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5. Comment #434479 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2009 at 1:04 pm

There's me thinking Mr Deity was pretty ordinary comedy from an anti-religion perspective, when it seems to be very ordinary, and derivative, observational bollocks.

It must be about 5 minutes since a comedian, somewhere, did the "woman are hard to work out" routine.

Perhaps in the next episode of Mr Deity, Adam will go into s Starbucks and attempt to order a standard coffee, with hilarious results.

No, even better, he could meet a black guy who was way cooler and more streetwise than him.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

6. Comment #434484 by toomanytribbles on November 24, 2009 at 1:56 pm

i like most mr. deity videos and i appreciate the work the team does, but this caricature of women is ridiculous.

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7. Comment #434486 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 2:03 pm

If they had made a bit that relied completely on an overblown of caricature of a black person, would it have been ok?

---

I can't say I'm excited about the prospect of a half hour show. A concept that works well at 5 min clips doesn't typically sustain a 25min (commercials) show.

Other Comments by jackal

8. Comment #434491 by SkeptiKell on November 24, 2009 at 2:21 pm

... the caricature is of the male-female relationship . . . if you want vacuous take a closer look at Mr. Deity

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9. Comment #434494 by Skeptic Jim on November 24, 2009 at 2:34 pm

If they had made a bit that relied completely on an overblown of caricature of a black person, would it have been ok?
--------------------------------------

That's a false analogy. Not all black people are the same.

Other Comments by Skeptic Jim

10. Comment #434495 by toomanytribbles on November 24, 2009 at 2:36 pm

@jackal

no.

Other Comments by toomanytribbles

11. Comment #434498 by Skeptic Jim on November 24, 2009 at 2:45 pm

Ygern, I take it you've never visited Dundrum or Dun Laoghaire ;-)

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12. Comment #434501 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 2:51 pm

@Skeptic Jim

And all women are the same?

Other Comments by jackal

13. Comment #434510 by Sally Luxmoore on November 24, 2009 at 3:09 pm

So Eve is a New York 'ball breaker' style of woman?
Never met any woman like that in my life (and wouldn't want to).
Enjoyed the discomfort of Larry and Mr D, but not keen on Eve... So not so funny this time.

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

14. Comment #434511 by Absinthius on November 24, 2009 at 3:10 pm

Come on people... the show has a history of RIDICULING false preconceptions. Isn't the simple fact that they portray the woman as caricature annoying, whining, manipulative person a commendable thing - i.e. it shows it is a false preconception.

Next to that, it is funny!

Other Comments by Absinthius

15. Comment #434513 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 3:24 pm

@Absinthius

Next week, Mr. Deity can create "The Black Man." He'll be a big ol' gangstah with saggin' pants, bling, and a glock 9, and he'll try to sell Mr. Deity and Larry crack. Comedy gold.

Other Comments by jackal

16. Comment #434514 by King of NH on November 24, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Now hold on. How many complaints were there when they made the video of Adam accepting the ridiculous terms of eternal damnation and suffering because he saw a photo of Eve?

It's okay to make caricatures of men being dumb and doing anything for sex with a hot chick, but not caricatures of women being emotional and wholly incomprehensible to men? My Spidey Sense detects a double standard.

Other Comments by King of NH

17. Comment #434517 by Jack Rawlinson on November 24, 2009 at 3:29 pm

Gotta go with toomanytribbles here... if they were trying to satirise that stereotype of women they didn't do a very good job of it because it looked pretty much exactly how it would have if they'd been serious. With good satire the tongue has to be a bit more visible in the cheek than it was here.

I think this one's a bit of a clunker in a generally excellent series.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

18. Comment #434518 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 3:33 pm

King of NH,

1-> False equivalence. Most of the Man episode was not about Adam being a stereotype. It was just a quick jab at the end.

2-> It's more acceptable to lampoon the ones on top. Men have a privileged status in this country and most others. Women, OTOH, are systematically discriminated against, not by law but by custom, in this country and most. Women are treated as slaves in many Islamic countries - countries with which the US and the UK still keep friendly diplomatic status. There is the difference.

Other Comments by jackal

19. Comment #434519 by SaintStephen on November 24, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Just more proof that women aren't funny.

Other Comments by SaintStephen

20. Comment #434520 by Absinthius on November 24, 2009 at 3:47 pm

Dear lord, how to make a mountain out of a molehill... Sometimes the overly zealous drive to criticize on this site is just flat-out annoying.

I'm sure the Mr. Deity team willingly tried to discriminate women, bigoted fools eh?! Them rascals them!

Other Comments by Absinthius

21. Comment #434524 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2009 at 3:48 pm

jackal

It's more acceptable to lampoon the ones on top.

Though the general agreement amongst advertisers that men must be depicted as useless oafs constantly amusing or mildy annoying their smart and practical female partners is pretty annoying.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

22. Comment #434525 by Ygern on November 24, 2009 at 3:55 pm

Absinthius, you're missing the point utterly.

I am sure that nothing was further from the Mr Deity writer's mind. They are clearly not bigots nor ignorant, and no-one here has even suggested that they are.

But take a look at the comments it has spawned, comments from men who are likewise not bigots or misogynists but nevertheless are now guffawing and sniggering like boys in a locker-room.

Whatever the Deity team was aiming for they have automatically made everyone think of the worst sort of stereotyping of male/female relationships. In light of the fact that the show is religious satire I doubt that this is what they intended. But it is what they achieved.

Other Comments by Ygern

23. Comment #434527 by hungarianelephant on November 24, 2009 at 4:00 pm

What's all the nonsense about clothes? Eve was supposed to be naked.

You might almost think that this was trying to make trite observations about female stereotypes rather than political comment on religion. But it couldn't be that, could it?

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

24. Comment #434528 by Hal0_V on November 24, 2009 at 4:02 pm

Yes, some of you have clever arguments that try to rationalize their choice in humor. Sadly, those arguments do not take away feeling like I have found a place (online) where I can be understood on some level, only to be shown that it is generally o.k. to make fun of me in the standard stereotypical way. No one should be ridiculed due to circumstances of birth, even if the people not being made fun of find it funny.
But hey, that's just my opinion- and my feeling ridiculed.

Other Comments by Hal0_V

25. Comment #434534 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 4:22 pm

Peacebeuponme -> "the general agreement amongst advertisers that men must be depicted as useless oafs constantly amusing or mildy annoying their smart and practical female partners is pretty annoying."

Agreed.

Other Comments by jackal

26. Comment #434538 by esuther on November 24, 2009 at 4:39 pm

Mr. Deity is usually pretty funny. But this one, not so much. The humor is at the level of Henny Youngman's "Take my wife....please" or 'women drivers' jokes.
Meh.

Other Comments by esuther

27. Comment #434540 by Steve Zara on November 24, 2009 at 4:42 pm

I just didn't get this as being about female stereotypes. I saw it appropriately about male stereotypes. It is supposed to be one of the great moments in creation - the first woman, being introduced to the world, and they treat her like a piece of equipment, a pet, like nothing much at all.

Maybe this is because I think I would react like Eve.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

28. Comment #434544 by sbooder on November 24, 2009 at 4:59 pm

I can not believe the majority of the people here have missed the point.

It is God being portrayed here and not the actor. If you look at the majority of religions, you will notice that women are treated like shit and stereotyped. I think this episode was spot on; this is exactly what you would expect from a deity

Other Comments by sbooder

29. Comment #434548 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 5:13 pm

@ sbooder-> It wasn't Mr. Deity and Larry portraying Eve as a 1-D caricature, it was the writers. If this was meant to be metastereotyping, showing Eve through the eyes of a White Male God, I think they need to work on the presentation.

Other Comments by jackal

30. Comment #434550 by Skeptic Jim on November 24, 2009 at 5:13 pm

But hey, that's just my opinion- and my feeling ridiculed.

-------------------------

Ah... cheer up toots ;-)

Other Comments by Skeptic Jim

31. Comment #434552 by Colwyn Abernathy on November 24, 2009 at 5:18 pm

Ygern,

Much as I love the idea of Mr Deity & Larry being cowed and browbeaten by his latest creation and a pretty amusing one too, I have never in my life met a woman who behaves like that.

Count yourself fortunate, because I dated at least TWO of them like that in my younger days.

Seriously...it was the sex...I freely admit that.

EDIT:
jackal,

Next week, Mr. Deity can create "The Black Man." He'll be a big ol' gangstah with saggin' pants, bling, and a glock 9, and he'll try to sell Mr. Deity and Larry crack. Comedy gold.

Reminds me of that Family Guy gag with Stewie waking up in Lois's arms and seeing Jerome and saying, "Sorry, I was so out of it...wait, are we being robbed?" Nearly peed meself. Poking fun at stereotypes points out just how ridiculous they are.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

32. Comment #434556 by Colwyn Abernathy on November 24, 2009 at 5:24 pm

I will also make the note that NOBODY mentioned Lucy. What does that say, making the Devil a woman? (Other than friggin' hilarious, especially when she's able to put Mr Deity in his place with reasonable arguments)

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

33. Comment #434557 by MAJORPAIN on November 24, 2009 at 5:28 pm

These are normally funny. Couldn't even watch all of this one. An unfortunate mis-step in an otherwise great series.

Other Comments by MAJORPAIN

34. Comment #434558 by Enlightenme.. on November 24, 2009 at 5:28 pm

I don't know how I would have scripted this differently.

It is nothing but a rib, a subset of Man.
Why should it's feelings be considered?

A dutiful servile helpmeet, that is what the script they have to work from always said to me.

It didn't even come with a womb before the fall did it?

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

35. Comment #434561 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2009 at 5:36 pm

Steve Zara

I just didn't get this as being about female stereotypes.

The idea of women saying the opposite of what they mean seemed integral to the piece.

I didn't like the piece on comedic grounds in the first place. You can hardly call such routines fresh. That's before we even talk about lazy stereotyping.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

36. Comment #434566 by Koreman on November 24, 2009 at 5:46 pm

Off topic, mass slaughter of animals in Hindu ritual in Nepal.
http://bit.ly/8XJCsF

Other Comments by Koreman

37. Comment #434571 by Anath on November 24, 2009 at 5:55 pm

... really? Some of you have NEVER met/seen a woman that acts like that? Many of the things she said echoed exact memories of my mother saying the same thing. Some of you need to start watching reality TV or broadening their friend group. She was treating the event EXACTLY how a lot of women treat their weddings or social events.

Not to mention, the "rib = equal" comment seems to be a set up for the future as the Deity didn't really address it. Her character still has time to develop, you only saw about 3 minutes of it.

And as a female, I was not alienated or offended, I was more amused at the stereotypical male reaction to her, and Lucy's confirmation, as I would have taken Lucy's role in this skit pretty much verbatim. Don't forget that every other character in this show so far has been a stereotype of some kind so this should not exactly be surprising.

Other Comments by Anath

38. Comment #434574 by root2squared on November 24, 2009 at 6:02 pm

That was boring. I don't mind stereotype jokes, but this just wasn't funny.

Other Comments by root2squared

39. Comment #434581 by mordacious1 on November 24, 2009 at 6:29 pm

In Mr. Diety's defense...he does have the plague.

Other Comments by mordacious1

40. Comment #434599 by Colwyn Abernathy on November 24, 2009 at 7:01 pm

mord,

In Mr. Diety's defense...he does have the plague.

May I be excused...I appear to...have the plaaaague. -Eddie Izzard

EDIT:

Chris Rock on niggers:


Because everyone's ripe for a bit of ribbing:


Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

41. Comment #434607 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2009 at 7:34 pm

Colwyn

That Chris Rock show was indeed a tour de force. The section on female platonic relationships was also superb.

I do wonder whether I would have felt comfortable as a whitey in the audience during that section you posted though.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

42. Comment #434618 by Clairebear on November 24, 2009 at 8:08 pm

PZ Myers posted this one too, he doesn't seem to have been keen on it. It's already been taken apart on Pharyngula.

24. Comment #434528 by Hal0_V on November 24, 2009 at 4:02 pm

Yes, some of you have clever arguments that try to rationalize their choice in humor. Sadly, those arguments do not take away feeling like I have found a place (online) where I can be understood on some level, only to be shown that it is generally o.k. to make fun of me in the standard stereotypical way. No one should be ridiculed due to circumstances of birth, even if the people not being made fun of find it funny.
But hey, that's just my opinion- and my feeling ridiculed.

I completely agree. And just because some people found it funny doesn't mean it's not depressing to come to one of the places I should feel accepted and find this 'women are so irrational' and 'women aren't funny' crap again. Seriously, don't people realise that this 'women aren't funny' thing is just an excuse to avoid looking at the real argument? But then again, it's nothing new.

21. Comment #434524 by Peacebeuponme on November 24, 2009 at 3:48 pm

Though the general agreement amongst advertisers that men must be depicted as useless oafs constantly amusing or mildy annoying their smart and practical female partners is pretty annoying.

I agree, but most of the media is controlled by MEN. Almost all those who write these scripts and direct these things that portray men as stupid are men. I have no idea why they portray themselves as idiots, but it's nevertheless in a way which caters to them, in a kind of 'Men are simple and logical and just want sex, women are so complex and want to ruin our fun' way.

It happens so often I've lost count, but I always find it amazing when straight, white and/or males tell gay, non-white and/or female people to lighten up and take a joke because they sure can. Well of COURSE anyone can 'take a joke' when it's not you who's oppression or separation is being justified with that joke, and when you're not the one who has to deal with that every single day. Luckily, due to consciousness-raising efforts, nowadays those of us who don't belong to these groups can understand some of what it might be like, for example, as an asian, latina, black or whatever colour person to see their ethnicity stereotyped in the media. And if they didn't laugh at it, would any of you say, 'more proof asians/latinas/blacks aren't funny'? I don't think so. But somehow the stereotyping and writing-off of women is seen as ok because it's meant to be in an all-in-good-fun, battle-of-the-sexes type way. I'm not ok with it, neither are plenty of others who have commented.

Other Comments by Clairebear

43. Comment #434619 by debaser71 on November 24, 2009 at 8:08 pm

The skit is also about the supposed cluelessness of men. If you missed it perhaps you are being biased.

Other Comments by debaser71

44. Comment #434621 by AlanWyatt on November 24, 2009 at 8:14 pm

Of course not all women are like that, but I have met some that are somewhat like it - expect you to know what they mean when they say the opposite and so on.

And then you have the man (men in this case) that really don't have the perceptive skills to understand another persons needs. Women are quite possibly more perceptive and thoughtful and I think therefore would expect men to be on their level. Mr Deity and Larry were out of their depth, they didn't know how to rectify the situation. Perhaps 2 women talking would have understood the wanting to dress up for this special occasion. This was shown when Lucy showed her intuition and understanding of the correct protocol and gave clear instructions to Deity and Larry, which they responded to.

But I have met women that expect a man to understand things on her level. So I did find it funny.

Other Comments by AlanWyatt

45. Comment #434624 by Clairebear on November 24, 2009 at 8:32 pm

I can understand the argument in favour of the 'this is against people who believe the stereotype not the people themselves' interpretation. That's kind of the argument in favour of Sacha Baron Cohen's characters, that the joke is on the idiots who really believe Bruno or Borat are serious. There's some value in that argument. I also agree with Johann Hari who said 'Satire can never be understood at the level of the most stupid people in the audience, or there would be no satire'. But I DO think comedy and pop-culture in general are very much worth analysing. In fact, they might be more worth analysing than almost anything else. But anyone who tries to analyse it in a way that says, we're not sure this is a great message, gets shouted down as 'the PC police' and 'no sense of humour' as if we're saying the makers should take it off the air and publically apologise. For comparison, think of all the stereotypes in the media of atheists. Whilst not being 'important' on their own, it's always worth talking about why a certain group are represented in the way they are.

Other Comments by Clairebear

46. Comment #434633 by mjwemdee on November 24, 2009 at 9:15 pm

The old adage is that cruelty is always inherent somehow, somewhere, within comedy.

IF that is true, what would we want? A world without comedy?

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47. Comment #434634 by Steve Zara on November 24, 2009 at 9:16 pm

Comment #434624 by Clairebear

My conclusion about this video is that I think that the Eve character was great. I would have shared her views. I thought she represented a strong female character who exceeded the limited expectations of the men who created her. I wonder if some of the negative reactions to her character was because she wasn't calm and reasonable. But why would she be calm and reasonable? She recognised the true significance of her position, and of the occasion.

Who had the power in this sketch? Eve and Lucy did! So how can this be a negative presentation of women?

Other Comments by Steve Zara

48. Comment #434636 by jackal on November 24, 2009 at 9:28 pm

How powerful and in control is a person who relies on passive aggressiveness, who can't speak openly and reasonably about her wishes, who can't have a confrontation without breaking into tears? If you think that was such a positive representation, why don't you try living it for a while?

Other Comments by jackal

49. Comment #434643 by Mr. Deity on November 24, 2009 at 9:47 pm

My original thought was to come on here and defend myself. Then, I realized... this is comedy. Lighten up, people. In comedy, if you're not offending someone, then you're not doing your job.

I'm also amused at how many of you can see the comedy when it's offensive to something you don't care about, or think silly, but are outraged(!!!!) when your cow goes into the slaughter house. And before you say, "well, I don't think misogyny is funny...", just remember how many people have said, "well, I don't think blasphemy is funny..."

Finally, for those who say, "I've never known a woman like that", I say, call me when they release you from solitary.

Other Comments by Mr. Deity

50. Comment #434644 by blitz442 on November 24, 2009 at 9:48 pm

Clairebear

I agree, but most of the media is controlled by MEN. Almost all those who write these scripts and direct these things that portray men as stupid are men. I have no idea why they portray themselves as idiots, but it's nevertheless in a way which caters to them, in a kind of 'Men are simple and logical and just want sex, women are so complex and want to ruin our fun' way

I disagree. The audience is ultimately what controls what comes out of the entertainment media, and women tend to consume more t.v. and movies than men. In fact, women tend to consume and spend more in general than men (walk down any crowded retail street or mall and count the number of stores devoted exclusively to females).


The creators of media products and the advertisers know which side their bread is buttered on. The common portrayal of men as evil brutes or incompetent dunces and women as the superior sex is due to the preferences of the female viewers, not some bizarre unilateral agenda of a few male writers.

And it is not necessarily true that all writers are men. The feminist diatribe, I mean American t.v. series, "Mad Men" is written mostly by women.

So the better question is why the majority of females seem to prefer seeing men bashed, battered, and ridiculed.

Other Comments by blitz442