Wednesday, November 25, 2009 | Reason : In the News | print version

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TV Presenter On Death Row For Witchcraft

by Sky News

Thanks to ukvillafan for the link.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091124/twl-tv-presenter-on-death-row-for-witchc-3fd0ae9.html

Ali Sibat is not even a Saudi national. The Lebanese citizen was only visiting Saudi Arabia on pilgrimage when he was arrested in Medina last year.

A court in the city condemned him as a witch on November 9.

The only evidence presented in court was reportedly the claim he appeared regularly on Lebanese satellite issuing general advice on life and making predictions about the future.

The case is causing outrage among human rights campaigners but has made little news elsewhere despite the ludicrous nature of the charges and the extraordinary severity of Sibat's sentence.

"Saudi courts are sanctioning a literal witch hunt by the religious police," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch.

"The crime of witchcraft is being used against all sorts of behavior, with the cruel threat of state sanctioned executions."

Ali Sibat's supporters say he was denied a lawyer at his trial and was tricked into making a confession.

He is not the only victim of Saudi Arabia's literal witch hunt. Human Rights Watch says two other people have been arrested on similar charges in the last month alone.
...
Continue reading
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091124/twl-tv-presenter-on-death-row-for-witchc-3fd0ae9.html

Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #434810 by RichardofYork on November 25, 2009 at 11:59 am

Well we can't suffer a witch to live ,it says that in my bible

Other Comments by RichardofYork

2. Comment #434811 by Pete.K on November 25, 2009 at 12:06 pm

Believing in an imaginary god is bad enough, but taking a life because you believe in witchcraft is pure insanity.

Other Comments by Pete.K

3. Comment #434812 by wthorlay on November 25, 2009 at 12:06 pm

Saudi Arabia is one of the good allies of the American Government. Nevertheless is one of the most violent dictatorship in the world.

Other Comments by wthorlay

4. Comment #434815 by lackofgravitas on November 25, 2009 at 12:11 pm

Oh, the irony. Never saw that coming did he?

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5. Comment #434820 by Inside centre on November 25, 2009 at 12:28 pm

As part of the stupidity of this witchcraft law, would they put to death an astronomer for accurately predicting the future by saying when the next solar eclipse will be? Or a science teacher for 'predicting' what colour a strip of litmus paper will go in a glass of water?

Ironically, in Civil War Britain, the main fight against witchcraft trials was conducted by a priest horrified by Matthew Hopkins' methods. I can't imagine something similar happening with the Wahhabi Clerics in Saudi Arabia.

Other Comments by Inside centre

6. Comment #434821 by God fearing Atheist on November 25, 2009 at 12:31 pm

WTF! They are mad I tell you, MAD!

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

7. Comment #434823 by keddaw on November 25, 2009 at 12:38 pm

I want to see the proof that he was able to perform any kind of witchcraft.

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8. Comment #434825 by Gridman on November 25, 2009 at 12:51 pm

So... I guess it's a good thing the weather is dry and unchanging in Saudi Arabia as predicting the weather on the evening news is obviously witchcraft, too.

Other Comments by Gridman

9. Comment #434834 by rod-the-farmer on November 25, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Let us all say together

"You could not make this stuff up".

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

10. Comment #434840 by Adrian Bartholomew on November 25, 2009 at 1:17 pm

7. Comment #434823 by keddaw on November 25, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I want to see the proof that he was able to perform any kind of witchcraft.

Just attempting magic is enough whether it works or not isn’t really the point. Wave a fake gun at an American cop and see what happens to you.

My sympathy with this guy is pretty limited. Pretending to have mystical powers in a country that puts people for death for it is just plain dumb and the way I see it is there will be one less woo merchant in the world. I suspect if the situation was reversed and it was the “witches” that had the political power they’d probably be executing religionists.

I know I am being a bit harsh (not as harsh as a death penalty!) but my concerns are more for all those people being arrested and executed for political reasons using witchcraft laws to make the killings palatable to the public.

Other Comments by Adrian Bartholomew

11. Comment #434843 by Nunbeliever on November 25, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Maybe we should consult the United Nations Human Rights Council?

Oh I forgot, according to the UNHRC the only important aspect of "freedom of religion" is to prevent blasphemy.

In other words. Please, feel free to execute heretics but remember not to blaspheme. Because then you are not respecting our precious freedom of religion!

The most interesting thing is that Saudi Arabia is one of the founding members of the "Organisation of the Islamic Conference" that was the main group lobbying for the current Anti-blasphemy resolution. Talk about ambivalence.

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12. Comment #434846 by Mr Blue Sky on November 25, 2009 at 1:25 pm

The thing about repressive regimes is that they have to use bully tactics to overcome reason and to promote fear or they would not be so powerful. As contemporary politics promotes hypocrisy in many ways we cannot expect much of an outcry when our chief politicians are self confessed faith-heads

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13. Comment #434847 by Roland_F on November 25, 2009 at 1:25 pm

The religion of "peace" stikes again.
But as long as the world and especially the USA depend on Saudi Oil and re-invested money this will not change.
Therefore : show more respect for the religious feelings and please stop the Islamophobia !!

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14. Comment #434848 by Anvil on November 25, 2009 at 1:29 pm

And they call this due process? Not only denied a lawyer, still less checked for positive buoyancy!

Anvil.

ps: Don't suppose J.K.R's books are in the best sellers list in the Kingdom, then?

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15. Comment #434850 by Nunbeliever on November 25, 2009 at 1:33 pm

To WTHORLAY:

"Saudi Arabia is one of the good allies of the American Government."

And that is why most international terrorists (including the 9/11 bombers and Osama Bin Laden) are strongly associated with Saudi Arabia???

Other Comments by Nunbeliever

16. Comment #434856 by Sandra S on November 25, 2009 at 1:43 pm

12. Comment #434846 by Mr Blue Sky

Speak for yourself, the swedish PM has never mentioned God or anything religious, neither has any other swedish politician outside of the christian party and they get about 4% of votes so nobody cares. There was that one christian party member who wanted our PM to end his speeches with "God bless Sweden", though. It fell pretty flat on it's face.

But he is european after all, so naturally he will condone Ramadan and halal, and will occasionaly blurt out things like "I don't understand how people can show so little respect for differences."

Yes, Mr Reinfeldt Prime Minister, sir, I don't know what came over me when I suggested that slitting throats off animals might be barbaric.

Other Comments by Sandra S

17. Comment #434859 by John Locke on November 25, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Nunbeliever:

so is pakistan another hotbed of terrorism, if not the mothership thereof....

Sandra S:

the scandinavian nations are a bit of a light in darkness vis-a-vis secularisation. in most aspects you guys seem to be about a generation ahead of even the most developed nations.

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18. Comment #434864 by Sandra S on November 25, 2009 at 1:53 pm

17. Comment #434859 by John Locke

Don't worry, Islam is doing it's best to bring us right back around :). Our PM sure is doing his best to help as well by wanting to remove laws which causes "unnecessary cultural clashes". Meaning such redundant laws as requiring the animal to at least be sedated before having its throat slit in a religious blood rite.

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19. Comment #434870 by John Locke on November 25, 2009 at 2:04 pm

hmm - doesn't sound too good - you guys are supposed to set a good example! :)

i find the eating practices of religion one of the most blatant and visible demonstrations of its man-made origins. the similarities between such incompatible faiths would be laughable if they didn't cause such strife.

of the 3 abrahamic faiths, only christianity saw the sense in dropping such strange practices, as it saw the plain irrationality and impracticality of it all. only a few more practices to go and it will become almost enlightened compared to others :P

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20. Comment #434872 by Nunbeliever on November 25, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Ali Sibat's supporters say he was denied a lawyer at his trial and was tricked into making a confession.

Human rights campaigners claim prosecutors classified the booklet as a "talisman" and the court accepted that as evidence, sentencing him to 20 months in prison and 300 lashes.

WTF??? So the real PROBLEM is that people accused of witchcraft will not get lawyers??? Apparently the bizarre fact that witchcraft is considered a capital offense in the 21th century seems fully natural to these human rights activists. Is the world going crazy? We should honestly think about building a space ship so all reasonable people could evacute earth and wait for all these crazy barbarians to kill each other off. Perhaps a nuke or two would do the trick.

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21. Comment #434881 by Sandra S on November 25, 2009 at 2:26 pm

20. Comment #434872 by Nunbeliever

Is the world going crazy?

Hold on, was it ever anything but crazy?

Other Comments by Sandra S

22. Comment #434882 by pwuk on November 25, 2009 at 2:28 pm

Where does that leave the weather man?

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23. Comment #434884 by MarkOnTheRiver on November 25, 2009 at 2:31 pm

. . . Is the world going crazy£ We should honestly think about building a space ship so all reasonable people could evacuate earth and wait for all these crazy barbarians to kill each other off. Perhaps a nuke or two would do the trick.

Didn't Douglas Adams have a similar idea in reverse£ Put all the thinkers in one space ark, the doers into a third space ark, and the middle men / ad men / telephone hygienists / crazy theistic barbarians into the second ark. This was promptly lost forever.

(Apologies if the fine detail is wrong. It's been a good while since I read The Hitchhikers Guide series)

Other Comments by MarkOnTheRiver

24. Comment #434897 by TalladegaTom on November 25, 2009 at 2:54 pm

I love using the witch argument when debating the deluded and in particular my nutbag far right religiously cut/paste brother.
Gets 'em every time.
I ask them point blank whether or not they believe if witches actually exist. Do they or don't they? Either they do or they don't.
I'm sure you can see where I take it next.
If it's a yes, and they exist because "it says so here in the good book", I ask for the precise definition from the 'good book' on how one can tell a witch from a non witch. Ya know it might be kinda useful to those who make such decisions.
Foaming at the mouth? Epilepsy or witch?
So hard to tell from the ancient text. sigh...
They cannot defend against this without looking EXTRA stupid.

The witch scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail should kick in right about now.
sorry to be so long winded.

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25. Comment #434919 by black wolf on November 25, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Mark,
if I remember correctly, they told the 'middle men' people that they were the most important people for a functioning society, so they sent them out first to prepare the new planet.
They never sent the other arks after them.

As Arthur Dent later found out, humanity actually descended from these morons and not the promising but primitive natives.

Other Comments by black wolf

26. Comment #434937 by Bonzai on November 25, 2009 at 3:58 pm

Fuck, they should have invaded that fucking country instead of Iraq.

Let's see all the Muslims protesting and burning Saudi embassies like they did with the Muhammad cartoons. I won't hold my breath.

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27. Comment #434949 by xsjadolateralus on November 25, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Ahhh, what is this fresh hell, I've woken up to?

Now, we get to watch history repeat itself. Innocent people will be destroyed, religion will grow. How sad.

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28. Comment #434952 by chameleonpete on November 25, 2009 at 4:17 pm

Where is the utter condemnation from the UN, and America and the UK. Why isn't this item 1 on BBC news at 10.

What does Gordon Brown think?

Oh yeah, we gotta think about the oil and the billions this awful country spends *rollseyes*

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29. Comment #434992 by notnecessarilyso on November 25, 2009 at 4:56 pm

My sympathy with this guy is pretty limited. Pretending to have mystical powers in a country that puts people for death for it is just plain dumb and the way I see it is there will be one less woo merchant in the world.

You must be kidding. Being a "woo merchant" alone should not be a capital offense anywhere in the world; and Saudi Arabia should not be allowed to impose its brand of Islam on foreigners making pilgrimages.

I suspect that all of this anti-witchcraft hysteria stems from a bad case of professional jealousy. Holy men never like their competition.

I also suspect that Saudi Arabia's witchcraft laws are constantly growing and so broadly defined that there is no way for anyone to know or keep abreast of them all.

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30. Comment #434994 by A on November 25, 2009 at 4:58 pm

Saudi Arabia is a medieval dictatorship - truly a fucking god damn awful dark ages side show.

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31. Comment #435002 by jcob82 on November 25, 2009 at 5:05 pm

Don't worry everyone the western nations will speak out against this nonsense and condemn Saudi brutality just as soon as they run out of oil. Until then we will walk through the park holding hands with them (Bush)and show them respect by bowing to them (Obama.

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32. Comment #435021 by Prankster on November 25, 2009 at 5:24 pm

Oh FFS.....

The "Beautiful religion of Reason" strikes again?

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33. Comment #435042 by crookedshoes on November 25, 2009 at 5:46 pm

I guess Sinatra would have been killed for his awesome rendition of "Witchcraft". When this is the kind of thoughtless murderous ideas put forth from an entire COUNTRY (here I am not pigeonholing, it is actually the whole country)...why do they maintain credibility in the world arena? Oh, I forgot the oil and the hocus pocus. By the way MY SHINY GREEN ROCK IS LUCKIER THAN YOUR SHINY GREEN ROCK. i can prove it too. I never have failed a test with my greenrock in my pocket

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34. Comment #435045 by MarkOnTheRiver on November 25, 2009 at 5:48 pm

if I remember correctly, they told the 'middle men' people that they were the most important people for a functioning society, so they sent them out first to prepare the new planet.
They never sent the other arks after them.

As Arthur Dent later found out, humanity actually descended from these morons and not the promising but primitive natives.

Yes, you're spot on with your recollection black wolf. Thank you.

When you read of outrages like this, you realise that Adams may not have been so far from the truth after all.

Other Comments by MarkOnTheRiver

35. Comment #435064 by sillygirl on November 25, 2009 at 6:09 pm

America condemn this? Too many people over here wish we could do the same thing.

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36. Comment #435074 by Koreman on November 25, 2009 at 6:19 pm

Off topic, video from Nepal. Mass killing of hundreds of thousands of animals in a Hindu sacrifice ritual that happens once every five years. Religion is so insane.
http://bit.ly/7ZCnNW

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37. Comment #435099 by glenister_m on November 25, 2009 at 6:46 pm

This reminds me of "Whoops Apocalypse" when Peter Cooke as the PM goes insane, eg. the problems of the economy are caused by pixies - especially the invisible kind. He accuses another member of parliament of being a witch when called on this, and so, obviously, they crucify the 'witch'.

With Hitchiker's, they ship the useless third of the population off on the space ark to crash into the new home planet.

I've often thought it would be nice if we could divide the planet into two parts. Those that wanted to live in peace with everyone else would get one part, those that refused to get along get the other part (size depending on proportion of the population) and are left to work things out by themselves. Shame it can't be that simple...

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38. Comment #435105 by jpgj on November 25, 2009 at 6:51 pm

Just a strange thought… Vatican abolished limbo because of Muslim competition for African babies in heaven... Are the Saudis pushing their own stuff in African counties where they face stiff competition from the Pentacostal-Evangelical child and adult witch industry? Need a witch industry too?
Wonder why this apparently sudden enthusiasm for witch hunting (if it's something new, don't know).

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39. Comment #435119 by Jack Rawlinson on November 25, 2009 at 7:11 pm

Note to Derren Brown: STAY OUT OF SAUDI!

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40. Comment #435127 by AshtonBlack on November 25, 2009 at 7:21 pm

You have to be fucking kidding me.

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41. Comment #435137 by Adrian Bartholomew on November 25, 2009 at 7:33 pm

29. Comment #434992 by notnecessarilyso on November 25, 2009 at 4:56 pm
10. Comment #434840 by Adrian Bartholomew on November 25, 2009 at 1:17 pm
My sympathy with this guy is pretty limited. Pretending to have mystical powers in a country that puts people for death for it is just plain dumb and the way I see it is there will be one less woo merchant in the world.
You must be kidding. Being a "woo merchant" alone should not be a capital offense anywhere in the world; and Saudi Arabia should not be allowed to impose its brand of Islam on foreigners making pilgrimages.

It’s their country... I think it is a terrible law too and on that basis I’m not bloody well going near the place. I’m not going to Afghanistan or North Korea either for that matter. Everyone that TRAVELS TO Saudi Arabia should KNOW the risks and HAVE THE CHOICE not to go there! Perhaps if people stopped going to that country they might start changing their laws a bit. Which is the good thing about this article; it gets the information out there to people thinking about going.

On another note I DO have sympathy for the Saudi nationals that get caught out by those laws because they didn’t chose to live there. And let’s face it if you are a political reformer that wants to change the country these are the types of laws oppressive countries employ to subjugate their populations.

PS. Rereading the first paragraph above I can see how it sounds callous. I don’t think I am. At the risk of using a dodgy analogy if I saw Nick Griffin (the BNP leader) crossing a busy motorway with his eyes closed and his hands covering his ears I’d try to stop him. And if he survived the trip but needed medical assistance I’d be happy that the NHS helped him for free and that we all collectively paid for his treatment. In other words I’d do everything in my power to help the man but at no point would I feel sorry for the smegger.

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42. Comment #435145 by j.mills on November 25, 2009 at 7:42 pm

The Beeb's coverage:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8378483.stm

There is no legal definition of witchcraft in Saudi Arabia... The country's religious authorities condemn any practices deemed un-Islamic, including horoscopes and fortune telling.

I predict this guy will be killed. I'm seeing a shining sword swinging in front of a crowd of sickos. Darn, now I'll have to cancel my Saudi holiday break.

Srsly, this is the 21st century, and this psychotic savagery passes without a murmur from the glorious leaders of beacon western democracies. And they're surprised that no one respects politicians.

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43. Comment #435165 by Jack Rawlinson on November 25, 2009 at 8:18 pm

@Adrian Bartholomew:

I see. And no doubt you would have "pretty limited" sympathy for a woman who chose not to wear a veil in a country where the penalty for that was severe. After all, that's just "asking for it", right?

How culturally sensitive of you.

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44. Comment #435166 by Prosthetic Head on November 25, 2009 at 8:18 pm

Just finished reading this, terrible stuff. You'd have hoped that we (as a species) might have got past this by now. Worth a look is the child witches of Africa despatches on channel 4 (you can see it on 4OD in the UK).

Both articles are also linked and with option for comments here:
http://carnifexinsania.blogspot.com/

Any suggestions for something positive we can do about this sort of thing? We all agree its terrible, but how many of us will do something?

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45. Comment #435170 by amuck on November 25, 2009 at 8:25 pm

I predict a Jesus and Mo cartoon from this.

So there is a happy ending.

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46. Comment #435171 by Adrian Bartholomew on November 25, 2009 at 8:28 pm

43. Comment #435165 by Jack Rawlinson on November 25, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@Adrian Bartholomew:
My sympathy with this guy is pretty limited. Pretending to have mystical powers in a country that puts people for death for it is just plain dumb and the way I see it is there will be one less woo merchant in the world.
I see. And no doubt you would have "pretty limited" sympathy for a woman who chose not to wear a veil in a country where the penalty for that was severe. After all, that's just "asking for it", right?

How culturally sensitive of you.

”No doubt”???????? Had you read my follow up post a mere 2 posts above your own you would not have posted this methinks. At the risk of repeating myself so quickly a women being forced to wear a veil in her country doesn’t have a choice about it so DOES get my sympathy. A FOREIGNER (to Saudi Arabia) going there and being getting punished for not wearing a veil does not get my sympathy because she should have known better and should not have gone. But in EITHER CASE I would STILL want to help them.

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47. Comment #435181 by Nunbeliever on November 25, 2009 at 9:01 pm

Please, please can't the oil run dry SOON! Then we can nuke the whole damn country to pieces. I mean, there's nothing but sand out there anyway.

Yeah, I know. My emotions got the best of me. But heck, this is so bizarre I can't find the appropriate words to express my disgust.

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48. Comment #435183 by LittleFluffyClouds on November 25, 2009 at 9:07 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2pM0Mh4Z4

Other Comments by LittleFluffyClouds

49. Comment #435187 by mjwemdee on November 25, 2009 at 9:11 pm

The Middle East is truly the biggest open-air lunatic asylum on the planet.

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50. Comment #435217 by cerad on November 25, 2009 at 9:58 pm

As Arthur Dent later found out, humanity actually descended from these morons and not the promising but primitive natives.

Just remember what happened to those enlightened intelligent people who stayed behind; completely wiped out by a telephone borne virus because all the moronic telephone hygienists were shipped out.

But to get back on topic, I think this article shows the importance of catching witches while they are still young and controllable. The christians have it right, go after the kids first and the problem goes away.

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