1. Comment #435411 by RobiFerentz on November 26, 2009 at 12:20 pm

One woman in the video says "He (God) has a love for mankind"

Is that why so many people were killed and tortured in his name?

This is evidence that ignorance (and lack of reasoning) is bliss.

Other Comments by RobiFerentz

2. Comment #435413 by simonchase on November 26, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Woah! A halfway reasonable news story about atheism on FOX!

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3. Comment #435415 by keddaw on November 26, 2009 at 12:31 pm

Recruit new members?

Hardly, they're letting people of a similar mindset know they are not alone. Huge difference.

Other Comments by keddaw

4. Comment #435418 by The CDM on November 26, 2009 at 12:39 pm

'Believe in God and you're never alone'? Wasn't one of the blasphemy awards awarded to someone who wrote something like 'Stop watching me sleep, it's creepy.' Never alone, 24 hour a day surveillance, 7 day a week judgement. That's comforting, god. This is what Hitchens means when he talks about the permanence of childhood-like thinking, the never-never-neverland's lost boys, and the need for parental keeling.

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5. Comment #435420 by Pete.K on November 26, 2009 at 12:45 pm

So the church adverts telling the faithful they are not alone are OK, while a similar advert to let atheists know they are not alone is somehow wrong.

The people of America need to get the message that atheism isn't the anti-christ, it isn't against their religion, it is simply a disbelief.

Other Comments by Pete.K

6. Comment #435421 by Thurston on November 26, 2009 at 12:46 pm

"Don't believe in God? You are not alone" is a statement of fact. What can Christians object to? Simply, they do not want atheists who may feel alone in their disbelief to find comradeship among like-minded non-believers. They want disbelievers to continue to think they are alone. That is an important point to bear in mind when theists accuse atheists of wishing to take away the consolation of religious belief. They seem to have no problem denying consolation to others.

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7. Comment #435422 by seabala on November 26, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Organised secularism of any kind is a nightmare to the religious. By being offended by such billboards, they are simply digging a deeper grave for themselves.

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8. Comment #435423 by Netsrak on November 26, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Just imagine a few ashiest's would turn up at one of their 'recruitment drives' and start speaking their minds. Don't think they would be quite so tolerant.
They really do think they have some special privileged position, what a bunch of hypercritical cretins.....

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9. Comment #435425 by Ramases on November 26, 2009 at 12:57 pm

Can't help wondering what the reaction would have been from the media and the Christians if a bunch of atheists had gone along to a church service to interupt and debate the existence of god.

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10. Comment #435426 by Steve Zara on November 26, 2009 at 1:01 pm

This shows the fragility of so much religious faith. So many people are worried about a sign that says nothing more than that atheists exist.

How scared they must be of the possibility of losing their faith.

Reports like this are important. The defensiveness of these religious people should be exposed.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

11. Comment #435429 by Duff on November 26, 2009 at 1:12 pm

I recently informed a female acquaintance of the fact that I am an atheist. You'd have thought I had told her I was a child molester. She turned pale and started to stammer that she couldn't possibly speak to, much less associate with someone who didn't believe in god. I said, "that's your loss, bye, bye". Never under-estimate the fervor of these people, even now in the 21st century.

I am a firm believer of getting in the faces of these people.

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12. Comment #435430 by CaptainMandate on November 26, 2009 at 1:13 pm

recruiting members now£

I don't get it, do I have to sign something£

The language used does get my goat. the sign is clearly aimed at non-belivers, that much is totally unambiguous so I guess the panic is that these chritians are well aware that their own flock is speckled with non-believers.

as far as I can see, the sign is aimed at people who a) do not believe in god and b) may feel isolated for that reason

and this is what it takes to offend a christian

hope they all burn in heaven

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13. Comment #435431 by MrPickwick on November 26, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Next time they have a meeting and want to keep religious trolls away they should place a huge sign that reads something like "All People Present Agree That God Is A Crazy Psychopath"

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14. Comment #435432 by CaptainMandate on November 26, 2009 at 1:15 pm

MrPickwick

might get a lot of muslims turn up though ;)

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

15. Comment #435433 by louis14 on November 26, 2009 at 1:21 pm

The theists really are scared aren't they? Scared and intolerant. The sign is scary; they don't want to be reminded that atheists exist, and they certainly don't want them uppity atheists banding together. Where would that lead?

As that Fox woman presenter said in the previous news clip on this site, "If you don't stand up and fight for it, it might just disappear - I'm talking about Christianity."

Other Comments by louis14

16. Comment #435434 by UncleVanya on November 26, 2009 at 1:22 pm

simonchase - I agree that this doesn't have the usual cocksure sneering of a FOX report. One of the comments on the link might shed some light on it, though:

"How the fuck are national fox news and local fox news so different£ I couldn't find any bias at all. It must depend on where the money comes from."

Looks like this isn't from the "central" Fox broadcasts that I at least am more familiar with.

Also, given the daftness of what the pastor believes, I don't really blame him for going to the meeting. One part of his job is to target people who aren't Christians already, and try to persuade them to accept Christianity. Given that he's in the US, it's probably true that many of the people around him are Christian already, so he must spend some time and energy looking for non-christians. Now, if someone else has expended time and energy gathering a high concentration of non-believers in one place, he can hit has target demographic very effectively by barging in and spouting superstitious rubbish. Full marks on that front.

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17. Comment #435440 by mixmastergaz on November 26, 2009 at 1:36 pm

"Full marks on that front"

But minus several million for tolerance and basic, common courtesy.

Full marks for arrogance I'd say.

Other Comments by mixmastergaz

18. Comment #435441 by Jos Gibbons on November 26, 2009 at 1:37 pm

(1) Saying the number of atheists is at least 2 is not an invitation to others to become one, so these journalist have misdescribed what the billboard did. However, they nonetheless displayed the billboard (thanks for the free advertising, which is the main reason I think these campaigns are worthwhile - even prohibited or immediately removed posters become news stories), so observant viewers could in principle notice this error, which presumably they promulgated to convince people of it. Why then show the billboard? Presumably because they expect their audience wouldn't be that smart. Whether this suspicion is correct is another matter (but their money-making does depend on their somewhat knowing their audience).

(2) The pastor finds it unbelievable that others don't believe what he believes, but of course he doesn't find his beliefs unbelievable, so he finds his beliefs' truth more tenable than their lack of universality. I think any such inequality is a pretty good definition of arrogant confidence in something. Of course, as "unbelievable" as he finds the existence of atheists, he technically does know, hence believe, it is so - after all, he met some. I'll assume by "unbelievable" he means that, though technically he believes it, he doesn't understand it. In that case, it would have been a good idea while there to ask them why they don't believe. He seems, however, to have instead limited himself to the behaviour shown herein, which served neither party's interests.

(3) "Atheists believe" misses the fact that atheism is defined by a lack of belief; fence-sitters count.

(4) "Believe in God you're never alone" (punctuation excluded because I don't know how they did it) - why are the responses always such straightforward parodies? (The same happened with London buses ("There definitely is a God. Now stop ...")

(5) Comment #435429 by Duff
Sorry to hear that. Where was this? The US, I presume? Here in the UK things aren't as bad. The closest I've come to such an exchange recently was a Christian non-physics undergraduate informing me she couldn't see how a physicist could be an atheist. I tried to interest her (from a scientific rather than a theological standpoint) in the curious fact that other constants of nature are more likely to work if you change several simultaneously than if you change just one, but she immediately stopped paying attention. If people don't actually want a question answered, they should think very carefully about whether the recipient will perceive it as rhetorical.

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19. Comment #435442 by rod-the-farmer on November 26, 2009 at 1:41 pm

That pastor who says

"When I realised there are some people who believe god does not exist, this is just unbelievable to me."

Facepalm. He is supposed to be a leader of his flock, yet the man is clearly and self-admittedly grossly ignorant of the world around him. I am tempted to ask what level of education he has. According to one web site, Dr. Byron George is an

educational psychologist, teacher, author, and minister of the Gospel

sound impressive, but until we know the source of these credentials, the jury is still out.

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20. Comment #435443 by Mr Blue Sky on November 26, 2009 at 1:43 pm

I would have liked to see an exit poll asking what had been achieved. xtians just love to present themselves in places where they can take hits and then whinge about them via usually biased media. Such a change to find this allied to Fox.

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21. Comment #435444 by serotonin_wraith on November 26, 2009 at 1:43 pm

"When I realize there are some people who think that God does not exist, this is just unbelievable to me," said Dr. Byron George, a local pastor.

Hmm, considering the billions of other planets, stars and galaxies in the universe, and the countless species that have existed over the billions of years it took for humans to arrive, seems pretty obvious to me that we're not special creatures who could get to live forever thanks to an all powerful being who used to enjoy the smell of burning animals.

Is that kind of thinking really so unbelievable?

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22. Comment #435445 by George Lennan on November 26, 2009 at 1:45 pm

Glad to see the guy with the fluffy white beard has been following the debate so assiduously. Meh...

Other Comments by George Lennan

23. Comment #435446 by CaptainMandate on November 26, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Jos

re question 4

that sums up christianity totally. every aspect of it is simply a parody of something non-christian from their festivals to their rituals. nowadays even their arguments (or rather the words used in arguments) are simply stolen from non-theists

The most original idea I've ever seen come from a christian was that God proves his existence throught the medium of the banana. in all fairness, I never saw that one coming

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24. Comment #435452 by black wolf on November 26, 2009 at 2:10 pm

A better report:

Meet an Atheist in Lakeland goes well

The fact that the event drew a large number of supporters including a Christian Pastor from Orlando was lost on the local media who covered the event. The Fox News coverage pitched the story as a great debate over the existence of God when what really happened was that most people were asking the Atheists about how they think about the big questions in life, with one person asking them ‘What do you feel when you look at the Grand Canyon?’

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25. Comment #435458 by Colwyn Abernathy on November 26, 2009 at 2:35 pm

That's right, you morons. Keep discussing it and exposing yourselves as the ignorant tools you are, thereby inspiring more reasonable people to "come out" of their intellectual closets. You're playing right into our hands...


MOO-HOO-HA-HA!!

Let the light of reason and knowledge prevail!

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

26. Comment #435459 by Jos Gibbons on November 26, 2009 at 2:36 pm

Comment #435452 by black wolf

Thanks for that link. I recommend the recording of the meeting I found by following a hyperlink or two from there (it's two hours):

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/atheist/2009/11/26/meet-the-atheists-qa-in-lakeland.mp3

Other Comments by Jos Gibbons

27. Comment #435468 by Border Collie on November 26, 2009 at 2:56 pm

My comment on the TV station: Anything to sell soap.

The gist of what Madalyn Murray O'Hair would say to religious disruptors of her talks long ago ... "I don't come you your churches and disrupt your services. Why do you come to mine? If you can't sit down and be civil, please leave."

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28. Comment #435471 by Nunbeliever on November 26, 2009 at 3:01 pm

Dr Byron George is my new HERO ;-) What an intellectual giant!!

When I realize that there are people...who...just don't think...that god exists...This is just unbelievable to me.

Well, hell yeah! At least they got the label right. LOCAL pastor! This man can't possibly have been outside his Lakeland village church in living memory!

EDIT: But thank you for the publicity! I wonder how much it would have costed the "Atheist of Florida" organisation to get as much attention as they get now?

Other Comments by Nunbeliever

29. Comment #435481 by Pilot22A on November 26, 2009 at 3:48 pm

Ultimately this comes down to the fact that Xians are taught not to think.

They don't believe in evolution, yet will dash to the Health Department and shriek like little girls if the H1N1 vaccine runs out before they get their shot.

They will fill their antibiotic prescriptions yet won't believe that organisms in their own bodies evolve.

They will accept, without a shred of evidence, that some mysterious supernatural being, like Santa Claus, will make everything better for them if they will just have faith.

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30. Comment #435497 by bucketchemist on November 26, 2009 at 4:48 pm

When I realize that there are people...who...just don't think...that god exists...This is just unbelievable to me.

So let me get this straight. The guy is looking right at several atheists and is refusing to believe in their existence, but somehow manages to believe in some gaseous entity that he read about in a book? Have I got that right?

Other Comments by bucketchemist

31. Comment #435499 by hoopoe2 on November 26, 2009 at 4:50 pm

I am an atheist and have never felt alone, I don't care what other people believe in. I don't feel I need the support of others to shore up my beliefs

Other Comments by hoopoe2

32. Comment #435507 by amuck on November 26, 2009 at 5:30 pm

Pretty impressive beard on the pastor. Very patriarchal, if not old testament. I wonder if he realizes that he acquired that beard via his beardless ancestors by a generous infusion of caucasian genetic material thoughtfully donated by white xtian slave owners.

Other Comments by amuck

33. Comment #435510 by robotaholic on November 26, 2009 at 5:34 pm

"When I realize there are some people who watch Fox News, this is just unbelievable to me"

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34. Comment #435513 by blakjack on November 26, 2009 at 5:51 pm

We were visiting a friend of my wife. The friend asked “And how is your vicar Jack”. Wife jumped in quickly and said that I wasn’t a believer. “I’m so sorry for you Jack.” I had to let it go – I was in her house so it would have been impolite to follow it up. Now turn the story round and she is visiting me. Even though in my own home, if she started talking about her vicar and the local church, I certainly wouldn’t be so rude as to make a remark along the lines “I feel sorry for you”.

The religious are unbelievably sensitive if someone criticises their irrational beliefs yet atheists frankly couldn’t give a damn – we have the confidence in the knowledge that we are right. They don’t have confidence in their position, hence their touchiness.

Jack

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35. Comment #435515 by God fearing Atheist on November 26, 2009 at 5:55 pm

26. Comment #435459 by Jos Gibbons

Thanks for the link to the audio. I listened to all 2 hours.

Even though it appears that Fox News was not up to their usual high standards of bias, it was right up there with the average standard of media bias/distortion.

The meeting theme was "mutual understanding", not a "Does god exist" debate. It did keep drifting that way, of course, and the subjects, and perspectives, were the ones we have become so used to on this site. The only significant difference was that (presumably because it was face to face) it was less hostile, and the moderatot did seem to keep the temperature down.

Dr Byron George said he was a research chemist for 30 years, before becoming a psychologist, and then a pastor. He was thinking with his pastor head, not his research scientist head.

As is typical, Fox aired only the most sensational one liners. George did start to preach a bit, but then had his head bitten off by an atheist for his preaching. The atheist moderator had to calm her down.

I think it was a good idea for the group to do this, and if any more groups copy this idea I think it would be a good idea for the whole panel to listen to this tape to practice their responses to the predictable questions in the genra of "mutual tolerance and understanding".
However, in general, it is probably more fun to spend 2 hours reading the debates we have here with theists because of the very funny and cutting insults certain well known characters periodically inject.

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

36. Comment #435516 by chewedbarber on November 26, 2009 at 5:55 pm

Tax the churches.

Other Comments by chewedbarber

37. Comment #435522 by Blondin on November 26, 2009 at 6:36 pm

robotaholic@33 FTW!

Other Comments by Blondin

38. Comment #435524 by Harlon57 on November 26, 2009 at 6:39 pm

RobiFerentz wrote:

"One woman in the video says "He (God) has a love for mankind"

Is that why so many people were killed and tortured in his name?

This is evidence that ignorance (and lack of reasoning) is bliss."

Robi. In your comment, you exhibit the same lack of reasoning you are claiming of some who believe in god.

You mention that a woman said in the video that god loves mankind, then you ask if that's why so many people killed and tortured in his name.

If god exists and loves mankind, that is separate and apart from what an individual human would do in his name. God's love wouldn't be in question because someone does something bad in his name.

I don't believe in god, but I also think that we non-believers should think before we accuse the other side of being ignorant, non-reasoning people.

Your lack of reasoning is evidence that a person need not believe in god to make an ignorant statement.

Other Comments by Harlon57

39. Comment #435526 by chewedbarber on November 26, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Wow slow your roll Harlon57, that statement isn't ignorant at all.

If God is all powerful then God could stop the senseless murder and torture of people in God's name, but God doesn't, why? I'm guessing your idea of love doesn't allow for the senseless murder of people if you have the power to stop it, especially if that murder is supposedly committed on your behalf.

Other Comments by chewedbarber

40. Comment #435527 by DrawingYou on November 26, 2009 at 7:00 pm

I wish I could have been there to give my opinion about their demon death god. I find the Christian faith spits in the face of elementary morality (scapegoat, how is that moral?) And when they take offence because I take offence at being told I will spend eternity in torment because I refuse to believe their story book, all I can say is let them be offended.

Other Comments by DrawingYou

41. Comment #435536 by j.mills on November 26, 2009 at 7:48 pm

Furthermore, Harlon57, 2.3 million people are killed in the bible in god's name, by god's acts, and on god's instructions - and that's just those massacres for which figures are given. RobiFerentz's comment stands.

Other Comments by j.mills

42. Comment #435537 by aquilacane on November 26, 2009 at 7:52 pm

Not a clue. Sad

Other Comments by aquilacane

43. Comment #435538 by Harlon57 on November 26, 2009 at 7:54 pm

chewedbarber: If as you write, god could stop all harmful things, he would be intruding on what the faithful consider a very important part of their faith. That is, that god allows them to have "free will."

That means that although their god may not like or approve of their actions, he isn't going to stop them. He is going to punish them for eternity if the sin is sufficiently bad.

Sorry, your logic fails the same test.

Other Comments by Harlon57

44. Comment #435543 by dazzjazz on November 26, 2009 at 8:11 pm

The way all American news presenters say "Atheist" makes it sound as bad as "rapist" or "murderer".

Darren

Other Comments by dazzjazz

45. Comment #435544 by AshtonBlack on November 26, 2009 at 8:13 pm

I am assuming you have non-biblical evidence for that assertion Harlon.

Other Comments by AshtonBlack

46. Comment #435548 by chewedbarber on November 26, 2009 at 8:17 pm

Love is not both caring for people and doing nothing when those you care about are tortured and murdered.

Therefore God does not love everyone.

edit: Or is not omnipotent-

edit edit: Or is not there. :)

Other Comments by chewedbarber

47. Comment #435549 by ridelo on November 26, 2009 at 8:18 pm

43. Comment #435538 by Harlon57 on November 26, 2009 at 7:54 pm

Not if God is at the same time omnipotent and infinitely good. Old chestnut, I know. But still standing.

Other Comments by ridelo

48. Comment #435552 by God fearing Atheist on November 26, 2009 at 8:30 pm

43. Comment #435538 by Harlon57

There would appear to be two classes of misfortune in the world:-

1) Caused by man e.g. murder, rape, theft, war etc

2) Accidents of nature, e.g. tsunami, hurricane, drought etc

If the second were only challenges, like a drought causing reduced crop yields so individuals could exercise free will by either choosing to sharing their food with the less fortunate neigbours, or turn to murder and theft to supply their needs, the "free will" argument might have some merit. When babies too young to exercise free will drown in a tsunami the argument seems less convincing.

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

49. Comment #435559 by lazlow on November 26, 2009 at 9:14 pm

@48. Comment #435552 by God fearing Atheist: But isn't that where god's plan comes into play? When children die or get killed there's always talk of god's plan. Although, that would make these deaths premeditated. I'm starting to think this god-fella is a bit of a lunatic.

Other Comments by lazlow

50. Comment #435561 by mmurray on November 26, 2009 at 9:21 pm

God could easily adjust a few parameters like our birth rates, levels of aggression, fear of non group members etc and make the world a much nicer place but leave us with our free will. And of course turn off plate tectonics and get rid of viruses, bacteria and asteriods.

It's just another sad attempt to defend a false hyptothesis. There is no god.

Michael

PS: Of course if you try this argument on the religious they will tell you about Satan and The Fall. More bad sci-fi and fantasy.

Other Comments by mmurray