Friday, November 27, 2009 | Science : Medicine | print version

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An Open Letter to Alliance Boots

by The Merseyside Skeptics Society

Thanks to Marsh for the link.
http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk/

The Boots brand is synonymous with health care in the United Kingdom. Your website speaks proudly about your role as a health care provider and your commitment to deliver exceptional patient care. For many people, you are their first resource for medical advice; and their chosen dispensary for prescription and non-prescription medicines. The British public trusts Boots.

However, in evidence given recently to the Commons Science and Technology Committee, you admitted that you do not believe homeopathy to be efficacious. Despite this, homeopathic products are offered for sale in Boots pharmacies – many of them bearing the trusted Boots brand.

Not only is this two-hundred-year-old pseudo-therapy implausible, it is scientifically absurd. The purported mechanisms of action fly in the face of our understanding of chemistry, physics, pharmacology and physiology. As you are aware, the best and most rigorous scientific research concludes that homeopathy offers no therapeutic effect beyond placebo, but you continue to sell these products regardless because “customers believe they work”. Is this the standard you set for yourselves?

The majority of people do not have the time or inclination to check whether the scientific literature supports the claims of efficacy made by products such as homeopathy. We trust brands such as Boots to check the facts for us, to provide sound medical advice that is in our interest and supply only those products with a demonstrable medical benefit.

We don’t expect to find products on the shelf at our local pharmacy which do not work.

Not only are these products ineffective, they can also be dangerous. Patients may delay seeking proper medical assistance because they believe homeopathy can treat their condition. Until recently, the Boots website even went so far as to tell patients that “after taking a homeopathic medicine your symptoms may become slightly worse,” and that this is “a sign that the body’s natural energies have started to counteract the illness”. Advice such as this directly encourages patients to wait before seeking real medical attention, even when their condition deteriorates.
...
Continue reading
http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk/

Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 | Permalink

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1. Comment #435722 by adrianpatrick on November 27, 2009 at 11:34 am

And when the BBC discussed Boots' statements this morning on Breakfast they had the chair of faculty of Homeopaths telling us the majority of double blind trials were 'positive'.

They had no opposing viewpoint. just a hack from the Times who said she doesn't use Homeopathy because it 'takes to long to work' due to it only containing 1% of the original medicine.

wtf is all I can say at the moment.

Other Comments by adrianpatrick

2. Comment #435723 by Tyler Durden on November 27, 2009 at 11:39 am

Homeopathy in the spotlight: Does it work?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8382265.stm

All together now: p-l-a-c-e-b-o

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

3. Comment #435726 by Sandra S on November 27, 2009 at 11:44 am

Not that I've ever heard of Boots before, but I presume they're mainstream pharmaceuticals. Mainstream companies like that really have to watch what they sell, whatever they sell will be accepted by most as part of that mainstream.

“customers believe they work”

Would they really start selling bees in a jar if customers believed they worked as medicine for heart disease? Would they start selling pure water working on fundamental laws hitherto unknown by modern science, based on nothing but anecdotal evidence when all other evidence has shown in it to be placebo, because people believed it worked? ... Oh, wait.

Other Comments by Sandra S

4. Comment #435727 by Mark Jones on November 27, 2009 at 11:46 am

Comment #435722 by adrianpatrick
Comment #435723 by Tyler Durden

Blimey! That's terrible. As an antidote watch the parliamentary committee discussions:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=5221

Check out Evan Harris's patient dissection of the stupidity in front of him. Ben Goldacre explains the evidence shows it doesn't work. Professor Ernst explains the evidence shows it doesn't work.

Other Comments by Mark Jones

5. Comment #435733 by Tyler Durden on November 27, 2009 at 11:59 am

"We treat patients who don't believe in homeopathy in the hospital, they come to us becasue nothing else has worked, it's the end of the road, and often it still helps them. So I don't think it's just all in the mind." - Dr Sara Eames, President of the Faculty of Homeopathy

How can a "Dr" like Sara Eames miss all the clues for the placebo effect?

Nothing else has worked you say? It's the end of the line you say? "Dr" Eames, this is why it works, people are desperate for anything to work - bingo! placebo (or sometimes, nothing, no result, nada). If homeopathy were all it is cracked up to be, people would use it first, not as a last-ditch method.

Oh, and it helps them but only "often"? How strange, paracetamol (acetaminophen) or C8H9NO2 simply works. Not often, it just works.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

6. Comment #435734 by Kuyper on November 27, 2009 at 12:00 pm

People stupid enough to fall for this kind of snake oil deserve everything they get. Let them get taken. Let them submit to treatment by rogues and charlatans. Let them pour their life's savings down a rat hole. And hen, let them die. These suckers are too stupid to live. Time to "cull the herd."

Other Comments by Kuyper

7. Comment #435736 by Goodbluff on November 27, 2009 at 12:01 pm

"We don’t expect to find products on the shelf at our local pharmacy which do not work."

That statement made me laugh.

Here in Switzerland homeopathic producs litter the shelver of all the pharmacies. It is also commonly prescribed by doctors.

The results of the 2009 referendum regarding alternative medicine, made Switzerland the first european country to
take alternative medicine into consideration in the public health system

http://www.homeopathyeurope.org/news-and-press/news/switzerland-embeds-cam-in-constitution

If this is not scary enough, here's more

http://blogadmin.romandie.com/resserver.php?blogId=477&resource=page7.jpg

regards,

GB

Other Comments by Goodbluff

8. Comment #435741 by Sandra S on November 27, 2009 at 12:14 pm

4. Comment #435727 by Mark Jones

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=5221

And right off the bat a "people agree with me" argument. It's pretty demonstrative of lack of real evidence when you have to appeal to some sort of democracy to determine what is true. Let's see if it works on gravity!

Also, those bottles looks like bottles of vodka, is that how you conduct parliamentary committee discussions in Britain?

Other Comments by Sandra S

9. Comment #435742 by Demotruk on November 27, 2009 at 12:17 pm

What's the argument they make, that the placebo effect is worth selling in and of itself?

I only agree with doctors using the placebo effect as long as it doesn't carry miseducation with it. Generic pills given by a doctor is not particularly misinformative, it doesn't encourage the patient to believe in nonsense. Homeopathy on the other hand does, and it encourages the patient to buy more homeopathic medicine the next time they're ill, if the placebo effect was enough.

So, assuming that is their argument (that the placebo effect is a worthwhile product), that wouldn't be enough to justify it for me.

Other Comments by Demotruk

10. Comment #435743 by PMartin on November 27, 2009 at 12:17 pm

Delighted to see this. Alliance Boots also need to do something about the coverage of "complementary medicine" on their "Learning Store" Site at

www.bootslearningstore.co.uk/parent/topics/compmed.php

and more at

www.bootslearningstore.co.uk/ks5/altmed.html

It has to be read to be believed.

...(Complementary Medicine)does this by treating the life force of the patient.....

Some people used to refer to CM as "Fringe" or "Alternative" because they considered it to be alternative to the "Allopathic Medicine" that is practised by GPs. But CM complements the needs of the patient and is a more accurate description.

...It (holistic medicine) emphasizes the connection of mind, body and spirit....

....Homeopathy works...

Homeopathic medicines may be compared to chemical catalysts.The amount of the catalyst is less critical than its form or quality.

The Vital Force is an energy within the body keeping it healthy and helping to fight disease.

The last one is accompanied by a useful diagram!

These are actually on their site. I think they speak for themselves. It's a disgrace, and I've told them so.

(edited for formatting)

Other Comments by PMartin

11. Comment #435749 by Ignorant Amos on November 27, 2009 at 12:26 pm

6. Comment #435734 by Kuyper

I sort of had the same initial thought myself....but it is quite wrong. People are naive and ignorant, and that is not a good enough reason for unscrupulous thieves to grift them out of their cash just because of this vulnerability.

We don't allow it to happen elsewhere....then there are the health implications....for example, a person running about with a highly contiguous disease may not seek proper medical attention because the believe this crock of shite is helping them, thus putting you and I at risk.

Edit: P.S. My daughter works for Boots albeit their opticians division. I'll have a pop at her tonight with this issue.

Other Comments by Ignorant Amos

12. Comment #435752 by Logicel on November 27, 2009 at 12:34 pm

My recollection of Boots (when we lived in England) was that on the whole it was one of the best pharmacies I have ever gone to in terms of all around services like eyeglasses, advice regarding side effects of prescription drugs, informed, courteous staff, etc. But it was always a shock to see the homeopathy section. And a MD actually prescribed some for me! I could tell from the expression on his face, that he thought it was a bunch of hooey, but he could not get rid of what was bothering my stomach, so he went to homeopathy. I would have just preferred, after his ruling out any serious problems, to tell me to live with the symptoms for a while and then re-evaluate as many conditions are self-limiting. The big appeal of homeopathy it seems, is that it is 'naturel.'

Other Comments by Logicel

13. Comment #435753 by PERSON on November 27, 2009 at 12:36 pm

10. Comment #435743 by PMartin on November 27, 2009 at 12:17 pm
"Complementary medicine is gaining in popularity and may now form part of the studies of Biology students aged 16 ."
Teach the controversy!
Time for another campaign/petition? New Labour were happy to upset the fundies as they wouldn't have their votes anyway. But would they be willing to upset a small minority of new-agers by banning the use of time for discussion of homeopathy? I guess it depends on whether there are more of them than there are offended atheists.
Could it be useful? What if there were concepts that it was mandatory to teach, like Richard's drop in the solar system bit in the Enemies of Reason?

Other Comments by PERSON

14. Comment #435754 by AlexMagd on November 27, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Boots is a staple on every British shopping street, and absolutely the place people go to get medicine and other treatments.

It's absolutely astonishing that they should be selling homeopathic treatments - Boots brand homeopathic treatments! - and I'm really happy that they're getting taken to task.

Let's keep the pressure on!

http://www.boots.com/en/Help/Contact-Us/

Other Comments by AlexMagd

15. Comment #435767 by Carole on November 27, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Bravo, Marsh and co.
Please update here if you get any sort of response from Boots.

Other Comments by Carole

16. Comment #435772 by RightWingAtheist on November 27, 2009 at 1:23 pm

Our pharmacies in the US also have this crap. "Walgreens" is one of our major chains, and they are happy to join the homeopathic scam in addition to other junk.

Can you imagine a seller in any other industry being so bold as to admit that something is a scam, but sell it anyway because customers fall for it? At least sellers of other fraudulent products have the foggy moral sense to pretend they are selling real products.

Other Comments by RightWingAtheist

17. Comment #435774 by CaptainMandate on November 27, 2009 at 1:28 pm

adrianpatrick

I watched that this morning and it's another nail in the coffin of BBCs credibility IMO

their idea of balance was a journo from the Telegraph who seemed to basically believe it works but preferred something that works a bit quicker and a lying shill making claims of efficacy the the BBC should be made to publicly distance itself from if not apologise outright

If Boots were to be a little more honest then I'd be happy for them to continue selling it i.e.putting the following label on all their homeopathic products:

This shit does nothing, repeat NOTHING. People buy it because they're gullible and we like their money, it helps ensure we can do those 3 for 2 offers every Christmas so let's face it you like them too. We have publicly defended selling this product on the basis of consumer demand over clinical efficacy so let's be under no misunderstanding here as to why it's on our shelves.

I mean come on, we sell those nice smelly candles as well. there are some loons who think smelly stuff might improve your health, I wouldn't say that but there's nothing wrong with selling them as long as we don't pretend they might cure you of something so there's nothing wrong with selling you some sugar pills and water and cross our fingers that the placebo effect will work on you enough to come back for more because although this is the cheapest medical product on the market in terms of materials, it's actually quite expensive because someone has to keep diluting and shaking and all that bollocks (no don't ask me why, of course I have no more of a clue than you, in fact nor do they for that matter).

If symptoms persist consult your GP. Oh fuck it you can ask your local shaman to shake some chicken bones over your bum rash as far as I care, it's not like you ever critically assess information that's given to you.

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

18. Comment #435779 by CaptainMandate on November 27, 2009 at 1:40 pm

RWA

Can you imagine a seller in any other industry being so bold as to admit that something is a scam, but sell it anyway because customers fall for it£

I'm getting a Ratner's flashback...

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

19. Comment #435786 by SuperHands on November 27, 2009 at 1:56 pm

1. Comment #435722 by adrianpatrick
17. Comment #435774 by CaptainMandate

I saw that "debate" on BBC Breakfast too and almost choked on my muesli. Luckily I had my laptop next to me so I e-mailed them to complain, like the grumpy old man that I am. The editor replied to me quickly saying that she too was disappointed that the discussion was so unbalanced, and that they would do it again tomorrow morning with better guests. I hope I catch it!

Other Comments by SuperHands

20. Comment #435790 by CaptainMandate on November 27, 2009 at 2:07 pm

SuperHands

I'll keep an eye out (although it's saturday tomorrow, I may be asleep!)

Other Comments by CaptainMandate

21. Comment #435795 by irate_atheist on November 27, 2009 at 2:22 pm

10. Comment #435743 by PMartin -

The concept of looking at 'lifestyle' and its effect on health introduces the idea of 'Holistic Medicine'.

Rather than focusing on the illness, this approach to health care considers the whole person and how he or she interacts with their environment.

It emphasizes the connection of mind, body and spirit, in other words an individual is made up of interdependent parts which are physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. When one part is not working at its best it impacts on all of the other parts of that person.

For example, if a student is anxious about an exam; the nervousness may result in a physical reaction such as a headache or stomach-ache.

The principles of Holistic Health state that health is more than just being sick and the approach goes beyond just eliminating the symptoms e.g. taking aspirin makes the headache go away, but does nothing to remove the original cause.

Disease symptoms are used as a guide to help look below the surface for the root cause and this includes analysing the physical, nutritional, environmental, emotional, social, spiritual and lifestyle values.

'Butterflies in your stomach'. Haven't these people heard of the stress response and adrenaline?

Found the 'spiritual' cause for MS, have they?

Discovered the 'emotional' cause of Glaucoma?

Unleashed the 'lifestyle values' that will cure acute appendicitis?

Bach flower remedies

The basis of this increasingly popular complementary treatment is the therapeutic effect flowers can have on our emotions - particularly when trying to cope with life's ups and downs. Dr Edward Bach, creator of the flower remedies, believed that a healthy mind leads to a healthy body and identified even categories of negative emotions which could upset that delicate balance.

Fuck off. I suffer from hayfever. The best thing that happens to any flowers in our home is that they get consigned to the bin. This simple action improves my happiness immensely.

Homeopathy

Homeopathy works on the theory that the body's natural defences can be stimulated by administering minute doses of a substance which in large doses may cause symptoms of an illness.

Trying to blind people with the notion that it's like a vaccine? Again, fuck off.

This, is a fucking disgrace. I, for one, will no longer be providing Boots with any of my cash.

Note: Emphasis mine.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

22. Comment #435815 by manicstreetpreacher on November 27, 2009 at 3:54 pm

Another hit for Merseyside Skeptics Society!

The previous one was a lecture I attended back in September on the truth behind paranormal experiences by Prof Chris French of Goldsmith’s College, University London:

http://edthemanicstreetpreacher.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/mss-paranormal-experiences/

The truth is not out there, it’s up here!

Well done boys, keep ‘em coming.

MSP

Other Comments by manicstreetpreacher

23. Comment #435825 by God fearing Atheist on November 27, 2009 at 4:35 pm

4. Comment #435727 by Mark Jones
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=5221

Thanks for that. When the MP*** stuck the boot in with the "poo" question, and kept going, I was in stitches!

I am so glad these sessions are being recorded and are in the public domain. Huzzar for technology, and huzzar for the government!

Now if we could just ban the "Mail", "Sun", ... "BBC", and force everyone to watch the real MacKay ...

EDIT:
*** Dr Evan Harris, LibDem MP for Oxford West and Abingdon. (RD's MP?)

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

24. Comment #435827 by anonbloger on November 27, 2009 at 4:40 pm

@Mark Jones:
Thanks for the link! I liked the questions the "poo" question MP was asking... Glad to see large retailer getting asked the questions they should be asking themselves.

http://carnifexinsania.blogspot.com/

Other Comments by anonbloger

25. Comment #435836 by PMartin on November 27, 2009 at 5:28 pm

17. Comment #435774 by CaptainMandate

I like that. On the Boots main website there are plenty of homeopathic woo things for sale. I choose one at random - it happens to be "Nelson's Bryonia 30C". One of the ingredients listed is:

"30c Bryonia dioica"

How can it be an ingredient at all when the likelihood of there being any single molecule from the original plant in that pill is effectively zero?

In which case, how can they legally label one preparation of sucrose and lactose as Bryonia 30C and another as Nelsons Arnica 30C.

Isn't there anyway of taking the whole lot to court and giving them a thorough stuffing?

Other Comments by PMartin

26. Comment #435838 by PMartin on November 27, 2009 at 5:45 pm

I have e-mailed Boots thus:

I note you sell homeopathic preparations on your website. I choose two at random. The ingredients of Nelsons Arnica 30C are listed as Arnica Montana 30C, sucrose and lactose. The ingredients of Nelsons Bryonia 30C are listed as 30c Bryonia dioica, sucrose and lactose.

Simple maths shows that the probability of the ingredients Bryonia 30C or 30C Arnica containing any molecules from a Bryonia or Arnica plant respectively is effectively zero. So what does it mean to say one ingredient is Arnica 30C? "Contains nothing"?.

By any conventional means of measurement (which I assume our legal system would recognise as evidential), both preparations are (i) just sucrose and lactose and (ii) identical.
Could you explain to me how they can assert that they can assert that the preparations contain such ingredients, and how they can assert they are distinct from each other.

Then explain how you justify selling two varieties of identical sugar pill with no active ingredient under two different names and as "therapy" in your pharmacy and health section?

Thanks.I look forward to your lucid explanation.

edited for stupid typos

Other Comments by PMartin

27. Comment #435840 by bujin on November 27, 2009 at 6:06 pm

I watched the BBC bit this morning, and I was really disappointed that in their attempt to get a balanced "for" and "against", they picked some journalist who clearly hadn't got the first clue about homeopathy to argue against it!

That allowed the "doctor" woman to peddle her bullsh*t about there being many, many trials of homeopathic medicine that show that it works completely unchallenged.

I did consider sending an email in to complain about it, but didn't get around to it.

Other Comments by bujin

28. Comment #435848 by j.mills on November 27, 2009 at 7:15 pm

Excellent prose from the scouse sceptics there. Maybe we should find some choice admissions from Boots, print 'em on stickers and place them on their homeopathy shelves...

Other Comments by j.mills

29. Comment #435850 by clunkclickeverytrip on November 27, 2009 at 7:23 pm

Somebody should find the elastic bands in the Boots stationery section and re-label them "homeopathic condoms".

Other Comments by clunkclickeverytrip

30. Comment #435854 by exchemist on November 27, 2009 at 7:37 pm

I'm a pharmacy student. It pisses me off to no end to see homeopathic products in pharmacies, and find it hilarious that they bear the warning "contact poison control in case of overdose". Actually, i'ts kind of troubilng, because there shouldn't be any need to. You'll all be happy to know that nobody takes it seriously, and many profs spare no opportunity to mock homeopathy, but we did have one lecturer who believed in it and, without a hint of irony or recognitin of how dishonest she was being, present to us every bad study (the Benvenista article from Natre, for example) that exists as though it were real evidence. I sent her an e-mail to call her on it, and not surprisingly, got no response.

One of the profs in my faculty is all into herbals and naturals. For a laugh, one bit of advice she gave us was to recommend one scpecies of ginseng plant over another if someone really wants it. Why? Because that species is, and I quote, "more likely to be associated with efficacy." Geez. when you have to use words like that, just give up and admit it doesn't work.

Other Comments by exchemist

31. Comment #435859 by s.k.graham on November 27, 2009 at 7:53 pm

@kuyper, #6:

Kuyper, your statement and attitude disgust me, and I am calling it out, though so far others have let it pass.

Too stupid to live? Hope they waste all their money and then die? Is that how you feel about the mentally handicapped as well, in general? (or do you have some inconsitent double-standard -- if someone is mentally handicapped, they get a pass, but if they are "normal" and just not very bright, they do not deserve to live). How high must a person's IQ be before they actually deserve to live, according to you? And if they have a high enough IQ to meet your standards, but still happen to be fooled by some scam, because they happened to trust the wrong source of information, do they deserve what they get? Do they deserve to live? What about an elderly person, with Alzheimer's or other mental deterioration? Shall we applaud if they waste their children's inheritance on bogus treatments and be happy as they die?

How is your attitude any different from fraudsters who profit from homeopathy and similar scams? Or perhaps you are such a fraudster? IF the victims deserve their fate, it follows that you should have no moral scruples about profiting from it yourself.

Do all the members of your family meet your stringent requirements?

How is "too stupid to live" any different from "too weak to live"? If someone is too small or weak to stand up to a bully, do they deserve their fate as well? Why should we pay taxes to have a police force? If someone was too weak, unwary, or foolish to be beaten, robbed, or defrauded, they clearly deserve their fate.

The author of the article shows human compassion and concern for the victims of the homeopathy fraud.

Where is your humanity?

Other Comments by s.k.graham

32. Comment #435860 by TIKI AL on November 27, 2009 at 7:55 pm

So you guys are saying that all those Blair Voo Doo dolls that Boots sold didn't help push him out of office?

Other Comments by TIKI AL

33. Comment #435861 by blakjack on November 27, 2009 at 8:03 pm

I’m not familiar with these products. Presumably they are used in suppository form as this would be the most appropriate way to use them.

Jack

Other Comments by blakjack

34. Comment #435864 by root2squared on November 27, 2009 at 8:34 pm

The majority of people do not have the time or inclination to check whether the scientific literature supports the claims of efficacy made by products such as homeopathy. We trust brands such as Boots to check the facts for us, to provide sound medical advice that is in our interest and supply only those products with a demonstrable medical benefit.

But a real doctor is not going to prescribe homeopathic medicine. If you are already going to a homeopathic "doctor" then it doesn't really matter where you get your water from. If you are selecting your medicine yourself from the pharmacy without doing any research you are putting yourself at risk.

While the pharmacy shouldn't be carrying these, the people also have a responsibility to be informed. Charlatans will always exist until people start becoming smarter, and they will not become any smarter until there is a need for them to do so.

Other Comments by root2squared

35. Comment #435866 by friendlypig on November 27, 2009 at 8:47 pm

Praise be Catholic Homeopathy!

Must be good.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8356002.stm

Other Comments by friendlypig

36. Comment #435894 by somersetsimon on November 27, 2009 at 10:46 pm

Comment #435722 by adrianpatrick
Comment #435723 by Tyler Durden

Blimey! That's terrible. As an antidote watch the parliamentary committee discussions:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=5221

Check out Evan Harris's patient dissection of the stupidity in front of him. Ben Goldacre explains the evidence shows it doesn't work. Professor Ernst explains the evidence shows it doesn't work.

I was reading through the memos submitted to the Commons Subcommittee by the various interested parties and found this gem by The Department of health

"If homeopathic medicines were not subject to any kind of regulatory control consumers would not have access to such information or assurances. Conversely, if regulation was applied to homeopathics as understood in the context of conventional pharmaceutical medicines, these products would have to be withdrawn from the market as medicines. This would constrain consumer choice and, more importantly, risk the introduction of unregulated, poor quality and potentially unsafe products on the market to satisfy consumer demand"

Other Comments by somersetsimon

37. Comment #435896 by the great teapot on November 27, 2009 at 10:55 pm

Everton have just had planning permission rejected and all Merseyside skeptics are worried about is this.
Get a sense of perspective people.

Seriously though, whoever invented the term homeopathy was a genius. I know they are whack jobs but I still have to remind myself that homeopathy is not a form of herbal medicine, which in some circumstances is based in reality.
I was asked the other day, when I registered with a new medical centre if I would like Dr ... who also did homeopathic treatment, because of the pseudo-medical sounding name I didn't react quickly enough, my parting thought was , no it's ok I am with southern water.I am a great person to have around ten minutes after a crisis.

Other Comments by the great teapot

38. Comment #435898 by SASnSA on November 27, 2009 at 11:01 pm

Bujin, what she failed to say was that there were many, many more trials where the homeopathic medicine didn't work at all, and that the success rate was comparable to that of a standard plecebo. Obviously didn't want to confuse people with the facts.

Other Comments by SASnSA

39. Comment #435917 by j.mills on November 28, 2009 at 12:11 am

Yowsa, friendlypig (#35), that's a larf! Squirty holy water dispensers to prevent the spread of swine flu. So it will kill demons but not germs? God infects the faithful? Well, I suppose we knew that...

Other Comments by j.mills

40. Comment #435921 by parrja on November 28, 2009 at 12:25 am

1. Boots is a business that is there to make money.

2. Homeopathy is a great business model - cheap to produce and awesome markup.

3. If they didn't do it, the percentage (and I hate to think what this percentage is) of the population who believe in this rubbish will view them as backward and out of touch and they'd loose business.

4. I'd love a tour of the factory where they "make" the stuff.

Other Comments by parrja

41. Comment #435967 by zeerust2000 on November 28, 2009 at 6:41 am

I was genuinely surprised to find homeopathic preparations on pharmacy shelves here in Sydney. I always had this idea that pharmacies had a similar code of ethics to the medical profession in general, and that they could be relied upon for sound advice regarding the products they sell. Not so, it seems. I'm thinking of challenging the next paharmacist, whose establishment sells homeopathy, to tell me if they really do endorse all the products they sell. If not, then why are they on the shelves, and if so, then are they really endorsing homeopathy?

Companies who sell pills of nothing for $15.95 a box, or whatever, are clearly onto a good thing. Good for them that is, not for the public.

Other Comments by zeerust2000

42. Comment #435974 by HungryDuff on November 28, 2009 at 8:43 am

As a qualified pharmacist with 15 years experience I agree wholeheartedly with the letter.

Pharmacies selling homeopathic remedies, bach remedies and other 'treatments' which are licenced as foods have been a bugbear of mine for years. During my days as a community pharmacist I've advised numerous people not to bother wasting their money on this crap but to buy some nice fruit and veg instead.

I've had numerous encounters with the manufacturers of these product when I've asked for their trial evidence only to be told there is none.

So let's not just pick on homeopathy, let's get rid of all these so called treatments from the pharmacy shelves so people know that when they buy something from a pharmacy it will be of proven value.

In the end it's down to profit, but it's an ethical conflict of interests in my opinion.

Other Comments by HungryDuff

43. Comment #436007 by BroughtyBoy on November 28, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Pharamacists knocking out products which they know to be less than efficacious is no big deal. The point here is trust - Boots have a reputation to protect, so let`s nail them on the trust issue. If they were to make a policy decision to stop stocking this homeopathic rot I would use them and recommend them to all.

Other Comments by BroughtyBoy

44. Comment #436010 by the great teapot on November 28, 2009 at 1:30 pm

BroughtyBoy
I am with you brother, militant action required here.
Next time my condoms exceed their expiry date I shall take my business elsewhere.

Other Comments by the great teapot

45. Comment #436736 by Skeptic_Al on November 30, 2009 at 6:25 am

I emailed the MSS's Open letter to Boots and got the following (utter bollocks) pat response.

===========
hank you for contacting us regarding your views on our sale of homeopathic medicines. I appreciate the time you've taken to let us know.

Homoeopathy is recognised by the NHS and many health professionals and our customers choose to use homoeopathy. Boots UK is committed to providing our customers with a wide range of healthcare products to suit their individual needs, we know that many people believe in the benefits of complementary medicines and we aim to offer the products we know our customers want.

Our Pharmacists are trained healthcare professionals and are on hand to offer advice on the safe use of complementary medicines. The Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain issues guidance to pharmacists on the correct selling of homoeopathy which our pharmacists adhere to. We would support the call for scientific research and evidence gathering on the efficacy of homoeopathic medicines. This would help our patients and customers make informed choices about using homoeopathic medicines.

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Pah!

Other Comments by Skeptic_Al

46. Comment #436911 by weavehole on November 30, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Comment #436736 by Skeptic_Al
It would seem then next port of call should be The Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain.

On the plus side a very quick scan of their site found these quotes.

Efficacy No claims of effectiveness are currently allowed under European regulations.
However, limited claims may be made on products registered under UK National Rules.

http://www.rpsgb.org/pdfs/scifactsheethomoeo.pdf

It is the opinion of this meeting that the Society should produce a position statement stating that registration as a pharmacist and practice as a homeopath are not compatible, and that premises registered with the Society should not be used for the promotion of homeopathy.

http://www.rpsgb.org/pdfs/coun0904-C-40.pdf

Will have a deeper look tomorrow to find out if anything came of it, if no-one else does so before me.

Time for bed.

Other Comments by weavehole

47. Comment #436959 by Tyler Durden on November 30, 2009 at 4:23 pm

Homeopathic treatments called into question

BBC News, Saturday, 28 November 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8384040.stm

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

48. Comment #436977 by God fearing Atheist on November 30, 2009 at 5:08 pm

47. Comment #436959 by Tyler Durden

Ah, dear old Professor George Lewith. Have a look at this:-

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=131

Other Comments by God fearing Atheist

49. Comment #437060 by lackofgravitas on November 30, 2009 at 9:57 pm

Came to this a bit late.

Love Ben Goldacre, I watched him talk just after he won his case against Matthias Rath in South Africa.
http://www.badscience.net/2009/04/matthias-rath-steal-this-chapter/

If he wasn't a proper doctor, he'd make a dmaned good stand-up comedian. Except none of what he says is funny ha ha, it's funny 'I can't believe the Daily Mail actually printed that'.

Other Comments by lackofgravitas

50. Comment #437105 by SomersetJohn on December 1, 2009 at 12:41 am

In what way is selling homeopathic medicine to a gullible patient any different to selling Tower Bridge to a gullible American. (Or any other gullible individual.) Yet the bridge seller goes to jail!

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