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Wednesday, January 24, 2007 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments |

Document The Bright Revolution

by Will Moredock, Charleston City Paper

Reposted from:
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A22295

Atheists are people, too

Many people have their little rituals to start the new year. Televangelist Pat Robertson is no exception. Each January, he goes off on a little "prayer retreat," in which he talks to God and God talks to him. He returns from his Mount Sinai experience to share with his television audience the prophecies the Almighty has imparted to him.

This year was a dandy. The good reverend announced that America would be struck by terrorists in 2007 and millions would die. Yes, it sounds pretty grim, but before you go looking for a cave to crawl into, you should understand that Robertson's record in the prophecy business is not very good.

In 2006, Robertson said Jehovah had promised to strike the Pacific Northwest with a tsunami. In 2004, he said that George W. Bush would win reelection to the White House in a landslide. "I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election," he said. If 50.8 percent of the popular vote is a blowout, then chalk one up for the old reverend.

For the three percent of Americans who declare themselves atheist, agnostic, or secular humanist -- and for the seven percent who remain in the closet -- there are no collective rituals for starting a new year. They just try to make the best they can of a crazy world in which George W. Bush is still in the White House; Christian fundamentalists are setting health-care policy and denying condoms to teenagers and people in AIDS-ravaged African nations; Islamic fundamentalists have pledged to destroy the Great Satan called America; and Jewish fundamentalists will not be satisfied until they have sparked another war in the Middle East.

Yet in the midst of this plague of religiosity, one can feel a subtle but strong current moving in the opposite direction. Atheism is more popular today than it has been in many years, making the covers of major magazines and appearing on bestseller lists.

Richard Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, is author of The God Delusion, which has been riding high on the New York Times and Amazon best seller lists.

Two years ago, Sam Harris published The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the End of Reason, which focused public attention on the dangers of religious extremism and sold a quarter-million copies. Now he is back with Letter to a Christian Nation, a polemical blast at religion as the source of most of humankind's misery.

And then there is Daniel Dennett, the dean of the new wave of nontheists and director of Tufts University's Cognitive Studies Center, whose Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, continues to spark controversy nearly a year after publication.

Why the sudden interest in atheism in this country, where 90 percent of adults profess belief in some form of Supreme Being? Why would anyone wish to be identified as an atheist when a University of Minnesota study published last April reported that atheists are the least-trusted minority in America? In that study, researchers found that 39.6 percent of people selected atheists from a list when asked which group doesn't share their vision of American society. Atheists beat out Muslims (26.3 percent) and homosexuals (22.6 percent). One of the researchers theorized that the "findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as self-interested individuals who are not concerned with the common good."

Intolerance of atheists rivals that of homosexuals in this country. Asked if he recognized "the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists," the first President Bush answered, "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

Atheists may get a bad rap, but in the age of George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden, religion has gotten a bad name as well, and some say that there is a straight line between the moderate religious observances of billions of Christians, Muslims, and Jews and the kind of fanaticism that threatens the very foundations of civilization.

"As long as we accept the principle that religious faith must be respected simply because it is religious faith, it is hard to withhold respect from the faith of Osama bin Laden and the suicide bombers," Dawkins writes in The God Delusion.

This "New Atheism," as it is called, was the subject of a cover story in the November Wired magazine, where contributing editor Gary Wolf wrote, "The New Atheists will not let us off the hook simply because we are not doctrinaire believers. They condemn not just belief in God but respect for belief in God. Religion is not only wrong; it's evil. Now that the battle has been joined, there's no excuse for shirking."

Herb Silverman couldn't agree more. Silverman is the founder of Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry (http://www.lowcountry.humanists.net) and has the distinction of being South Carolina's most outspoken atheist. (See story, p. 23.)

"Tolerance enables fundamentalism," Silverman says, sitting in his office at the Department of Mathematics at the College of Charleston. "All holy books have horrendous violence and intolerance, as well as love and peace. The fundamentalists will always seize upon the dark side of religion .... Why should we give ludicrous beliefs a pass?"

Silverman and Dawkins both see the New Atheism as taking the critical step from "mere philosophy" to a political movement. Dawkins said this in the Wired story: "I'm quite keen on the politics of persuading people of the virtues of atheism .... The number of nonreligious people in the U.S. is something nearer to 30 million than 20 million. That's more than all the Jews in the world put together. I think we're in the same position the gay movement was in a few decades ago. There was a need for people to come out. The more people who came out, the more people who had the courage to come out. I think that's the case with atheists. They're more numerous than anybody realizes."

Silverman also goes for the gay analogy: "Forty years ago, I thought homosexuals were just child molesters, because I didn't know any homosexuals. That is, I didn't know any who were open about their homosexuality. They were all in the closet. Today it's possible to know gays as individuals and that's what I want for atheists. It's time to come out of the closet."

"Coming out of the closet" is a pleasantly innocuous term. In the hands of Richard Dawkins, the New Atheism takes on a harder edge. "Highly intelligent people are mostly atheists ... Not a single member of either house of Congress admits to being an atheist. It just doesn't add up. Either they're stupid, or they're lying. And have they got a motive for lying? Of course they've got a motive! Everyone knows that an atheist can't get elected."

He's probably right, but Wendy Kaminer warns against hubris in the New Atheism movement. Kaminer is an attorney and former Guggenheim Fellow and the author of seven books of social criticism, including Sleeping with Extra-Terrestrials: The Rise of Irrationalism and the Perils of Piety and Free for All: Defending Liberty in America Today.

Kaminer was in town last month to address the annual American Civil Liberties Union banquet and took the opportunity to speak to the monthly meeting of Secular Humanists of the Lowcountry at the Unitarian Church.

She reminded the 40-plus in attendance that great intellectual traditions have come out of religion, including the Jesuits and Talmudist scholars. Furthermore, great social reforms have been spawned from religious ethics. In the United States, these would include the abolition and civil rights movements. The great slaughters of the 20th century were committed not in the name of religion, she said, but in the name of nationalism and secular ideologies. "Human nature is the problem, not religion."

She quoted Mary McCarthy in saying, "Religion is good for good people."

(Curiously, Kaminer said that she does not think there is more religiosity today than in earlier times, but the way the Republicans have gerrymandered electoral maps and use religion as a wedge issue has given religious voters more power today than at any time before.)

The challenge, Kaminer says, is to replace contempt with compassion and to preserve the ethics of religion, including the concept of sin and moral condemnation.

Silverman agrees. He has no use for religious ritual, though he tries to keep the ethics of religion in his own life. "It's the latter that are important to me," he said, "not the former ... I try to do the right thing because it is the right thing."

Deeds, not creeds, are the measure of a person's morality, Silverman says.

To those who say that people without religion would be released to commit mayhem, Silverman responds, "I do not consider it morality if you act purely out of rewards or punishments ... Morality is what you do when no one is watching." In a Universe without a God, that would be most of the time.

Another popular attitude that Silverman confronts at every opportunity is the sound bite, "Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion." This was a slogan of Sen. Joe Lieberman, a conservative Jew, during his vice presidential campaign in 2000.

"How can you have freedom of religion without having freedom from religion?" Silverman asks. "To defend only freedom of religion implies you must have some religion." Silverman prefers "freedom of conscience" as the proper understanding of religious tolerance.

Silverman does not think that atheists and agnostics will ever be a majority in this country, but he would like to see them receive the respect now accorded Jews, who were a safe object of public ridicule only a half century ago. He is not aware of any self-identified atheists holding elective office in this country but is working for the day when atheists can be elected to public office as readily as Jews.

Atheists and agnostics have an agenda for the new year. They want to raise awareness, reframe the issues, and change the language. More than 30 years ago, homosexuals redefined themselves and their movement by calling themselves "gays." As Richard Dawkins has written, "Gay is succinct, uplifting, positive: an 'up' word, where homosexual is a down word, and queer, faggot and pooftah are insults."

Why couldn't atheists -- another oppressed and closeted minority -- come up with their own word, which could do for them what "gay" did for homosexuals?

That's what Sacramento atheists Paul Geisert and Mynga Futrell set out to do a few years ago. They were looking for a word, like gay, which they could steal from common English, an adjective they could transform into a noun with its original meaning changed -- but not too much. Like gay, it needed to be catchy, positive, warm, cheerful. It needed to be ... bright. And so "bright" it was.

Bright is the new noun many atheists have chosen for themselves. Brights are coming out of the closet and standing up. Brights are tired of being the target of cheap shots by politicians and religious demagogues.

Are you a bright and don't know it? How many readers of City Paper are brights? How many school teachers, doctors, politicians, police officers, businesspeople? Do you know any brights? You surely do, whether you recognize them or not. The website http://www.celebatheists.com suggests numerous intellectuals and other famous people are brights.

According to Dawkins, brights constitute 60 percent of American scientists; a stunning 93 percent of scientists elected to the elite National Academy of Sciences are brights.

As Daniel Dennett has written, "We are your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters. Our colleges and universities teem with brights. Among scientists, we are a commanding majority. Wanting to preserve and transmit a great culture, we even teach Sunday school and Hebrew classes. Many of the nation's clergy members are closet brights, I suspect. We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation: brights take their civic duties seriously precisely because they don't trust God to save humanity from its follies."

The new word isn't for everyone. Herb Silverman does not use it to describe himself because some people take the word to be an adjective and assume it to be a denigration of theists. The mild-mannered atheist does not wish to offend or affront -- even accidentally. But brights are here to stay, by whatever name. They even have their own website (http://the-brights.net), and for millions of nonbelievers, 2007 is shaping up to be a bright new year.

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1. Comment #19012 by Mr. Mark on January 24, 2007 at 11:17 am

As an atheist, I despise the term "Brights." It absolutely sucks on every level.

Our energy is better spent working to make atheist a term of respect than to go with a lame description that a couple of academics came up with over their afternoon lattes.

Brights are here to stay? I hope not.

Other Comments by Mr. Mark

2. Comment #19014 by debaser71 on January 24, 2007 at 11:26 am

I call myself an atheist and I too dislike the Bright label but I am glad people are doing something to help promote ideas most of us agree about. If the term Bright helps some people get into the fold, good for it.

Rather than suggest people are wasting their time or doing more harm than good I revel in the fact that activism is coming in all forms and from all angles. Even angles that I might not like or agree with.

Other Comments by debaser71

3. Comment #19015 by Greywizard on January 24, 2007 at 11:31 am

Well Mr. Mark. I disagree. Brights is a great word, and more atheists should adopt it. Simple reason. A-theism is a negative term. Bright is positive. On what level does it suck?

Brights are bright. They know a thing or two. And, being bright, they're not easily conned by supernaturalists and hawkers of other dull ideas. Atheism, on the other hand, is an accusation hurled at people who disagree with you. If you believe in a god, those who don't believe in it are atheists, no matter what they believe. Early Christians were said to be atheists. John A.T. Robinson, of 'Honest to God' fame, was called an atheist. Don Cupitt is often called one. And so was Paul Tillich. It's a term of abuse.

There are all sorts of reasons not to adopt it the term atheism. Another term of respect and honour is humanist, but even theists sometimes count themselves as humanists. Erasmus, as is well known, was a Christian humanist. So, Bright isn't all that bad, and we're probably going to be around for awhile. Get used to it.

Other Comments by Greywizard

4. Comment #19019 by the great teapot on January 24, 2007 at 12:03 pm

Brights sucks because it sounds arrogant.

It is highly embarrasing and sounds like the sort of name a group of pretentious college nerds might call themselves. others will view it dimly.

We are what we ( almost 50 % of the UK) are, atheists.
The only thing we have in common is a lack of belief in superstition-- "We" are not a collective group.

And that chap who does not expect the majority of the population of the U.S to be atheist is in for a shock sooner than he thinks. The U.S.A leads the world in many things but this is one of a few issues where they follow and don't lead.

Other Comments by the great teapot

5. Comment #19020 by jonathan espalin on January 24, 2007 at 12:05 pm

'Athiest and 'Bright' are both unfortunate terms. Athiest has, by definition, a negative meaning, and 'Bright' is not only confusing, but rather friilous-sounding. Whatever happened to the word "Naturalist," or "Naturalism." This is the official term in the philosophic world for what "athiests" or "brights" believe, and is in fact, more accurate, since in addition to gods, it also covers belief in all aspects of the supernatural, such as ghosts, esp, etc. It is simply the belief that nature is all there is. This is the word I use to describe myself, since it is not only complete and accurate, but politically functional, as it is has a positive connotation: the opposite of "Naturalist" would be "Unnaturalist." It also stops the confustion created by Einsteinian, watered-down panthesm, because if God is veiwed as "one with nature", than that view is automatically subsumed into naturalism. If we simply refer to our position as "naturalism", there is no need to spend fifty pages explaining why Einstien and other seemigly religious people actually believe the same things as those who call themselves athiests.

Natualists of the world unite!!!

Other Comments by jonathan espalin

6. Comment #19022 by jonathan espalin on January 24, 2007 at 12:08 pm

end of the first sentence, i meant to type 'friviloius' not 'friilous', which I don't think is a word.
apologies.

Other Comments by jonathan espalin

7. Comment #19024 by bugaboo on January 24, 2007 at 12:14 pm

"Brights are bright. they know a thing or two" This is exactly the problem with the term. Any time its used believers will accuse us of arrogance. We can't convert people by suggesting they are dim-they simply wont listen to any rational argument after that.

Other Comments by bugaboo

8. Comment #19025 by nine9s on January 24, 2007 at 12:16 pm

The term "bright" is an utter embarrassment. We'll never gain respect or "converts" if we go around insisting that we're "brighter" than everyone else. It makes us look hopelessly immature and arrogant.

A deliberate word game like this is bound to fail, anyway. A better analogy is how homosexuals took back the word "queer." It was once an epithet and now it's not, precisely because gays stopped being afraid to use the word. As long as we unapologetically identify ourselves as "atheists," the stigma should go away on its own.

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9. Comment #19026 by the great teapot on January 24, 2007 at 12:19 pm

By trying to introduce other means of describing atheists you are overcomplicating what is a single issue.

You can broaden the definition but by doing so you will lose others who do not adhere to all the other things you believe or don't believe. An atheist is not a club member or someone with a wide range of views in common with fellow atheists. A naturalist is a naturalist, a humanist is a humanist, an atheist is someone who does not belive in God, full stop (period).

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10. Comment #19027 by DV82XL on January 24, 2007 at 12:23 pm

The problem with 'Bright' is that it sounds forced.

Homosexual is a psychosocial term, it has its roots in the broader 19th century tradition of personality taxonomy. As such it is a classification, not an identity.

The term 'Gay' came into use by the homosexual community in reference to themselves long before the word came into common usage. In 1938, a very public use of the word occurred in a movie starring Cary Grant. In this movie he was dressed in a woman's lace nightgown and he was asked if he always dressed this way. His reply is, "No, I've just gone gay all of a sudden." In 1941, the term "gay" was used as a slang term for a homosexual in a book entitled, "Sexual Variations." In 1969, New York City police raided a bar at Greenwich Village that was frequented by homosexuals. Through that ordeal and the ensuing protests, the word, "gay," took on its modern usage in our world.

"Bright' on the other hand was coined to identify atheists in an attempt to soften that word and frankly it sounds silly and is not likely to be taken up by the majority of non-theists.

Frankly I am beginning to find the topic tiresome; I am an Atheist pure and simple and I will continue to identify myself as such.

Other Comments by DV82XL

11. Comment #19029 by Roymondo on January 24, 2007 at 12:28 pm

 avatarWe're not all scientists so what would we call atheists that are a bit dim? (I include myself in this category...)

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12. Comment #19030 by IainM on January 24, 2007 at 12:31 pm

How about the name "Godfrey"? Any suggestions for the feminine version of that though?

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13. Comment #19033 by the great teapot on January 24, 2007 at 12:41 pm

Godfrey

Now, that I like.

It has 10 times as much charm as bright.
(No, hang on 10 x 0 = 0 - It has infinitely more charm )

I am coming out- I am Godfrey.

Other Comments by the great teapot

14. Comment #19034 by flashbaby on January 24, 2007 at 12:47 pm

 avatarA lot of movements etc are named by their detractors. Quakers for one, and I beleive Hoyle coined the term Big Bang as he was a steady stater.
Why not either educate people to accept the term atheist in a positive light or use one of terms used by our detractors. I like Fool as the bible uses that term for atheists IIRC. I hate Bright, I am not a light bulb.

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15. Comment #19035 by Mr. Mark on January 24, 2007 at 12:55 pm

To Greywizard -

Other posters have offered reasons why they believe the term "brights" sucks and I agree with those stated reasons. More than the others, it just sounds forced to me.

If we could broaden the discussion, one might ask who the target market is for the term "brights." I would opine that it's the atheist who is being targeted, not the general public. It's a term that may make some atheists feel good about themselves, but I believe that the general public will find it presumptuous and arrogant.

The example given above as to how the words "queer" and "gay" grew out of the homosexual community are instructive. The meanings of these words have an organic connection to the community, whereas "brights" does not grow from the atheistic community. It is a total construct. Worse, it is a construct developed by two academics, and academics are the LAST people I would consult when looking for a word that, in essence, creates a "brand name" for atheists (I guess a minion of academics wasn't available to vote on the term).

If we want to go down this road, we atheists would be better off hiring a marketing and branding firm to come up with something that works. At least they would have the good sense to test market such terms out in the boonies before rolling them out in the general marketplace of ideas as was done with the term "brights." The result of that exercise has been a disaster, with many atheists appaled by the term, and with the few people in the general population who have heard the term finding it arrogant and stupid.

Other Comments by Mr. Mark

16. Comment #19039 by the great teapot on January 24, 2007 at 1:10 pm

What the hell is a Boonie or Boondock-
Never heard the term until I read the God delusion.

Other Comments by the great teapot

17. Comment #19040 by BaronOchs on January 24, 2007 at 1:15 pm

 avatarDid anyone read Don Cupitt's Solar Ethics? It seems to me (in retrospect) to offer a radical notion of what Bright might signify rather than it being an attempted replacement of atheist which I don't think is anyone's goal. Maybe the forthright vision of Solar Ethics would not appeal to many but it certainly merits consideration.

Other Comments by BaronOchs

18. Comment #19042 by Riley on January 24, 2007 at 1:23 pm

 avatar"Godfrey" - yes!

A tactic that I think served the gay community well was to adopt symbols which were only recognized inside the gay community. The immediate motivation for this probably had more to do with signaling eligibility to a potential partner than anything else, but no doubt it also had the effect of building morale in the community by signalling to the others that you're not alone.

Thirty years ago homosexuals would never display a symbol that publicly identified themselves to the world as "gay", because they would not want to suffer the resulting grief. Today, I would not be willing to wear an "I'm an atheist" t-shirt or bumper sticker for the same reason; too much grief.

If atheists had an "inside-joke" or symbol that was not publicly recognizeable, but simply served to communicate to other atheists that "you're not alone", that would be a great way build morale; I'd go out and stick it on my car right now. Eventually, gradually, the symbol or name would become widely known, like the gay-pride rainbow, and that process would be constructive as well.

I think I'm going to go get myself an "I'm Godfrey" t-shirt. And maybe a "Vote for Godfrey!" bumper sticker.

I love it.

--

Other Comments by Riley

19. Comment #19043 by Ole on January 24, 2007 at 1:40 pm

 avatarGay is an adjective meaning "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"; however, in modern usage, gay usually refers to homosexual men or women. Gay sometimes also refers to the culture of homosexual men and women (as in "gay history"), to things perceived by others to be typical of gay people (as in "gay music"), or to same-sex relationships more generally (as in "gay marriage").

(from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay)

I think we should look closer to words that can get more of the atheist sentiment than "bright".

As others here I don't like "bright".

"Godfrey" is a new word - not easy to get going.

In the wiki article it seems that "gay" at least goes back to Getrude Stein in 1922. So, it was not really "a hijack" of a word in the 1970ies as some may think? It "grew" more slowly.

I never felt the need to come out of a "closet" as an atheist (like gay people have felt). Maybe in US that can be a strategy, but why be a "copycat" (copying the gay word-idea that is)? Copycat - in music that is never a good strategy - and I think this also goes for "the new atheist" movement.

If someone ask me about my belief I will keep using atheist (it is the same word in Norwegian, "ateist", while bright, "lys", is not). I can add - like Bertrand Russel, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett (the list goes on) - I'm an atheist!!

Ole

Other Comments by Ole

20. Comment #19045 by MelM on January 24, 2007 at 1:59 pm

I think "atheist" does just fine; we ought to have the courage to fight for it. Besides, "bright" will just give the enemy endless opportunities for cartoons.

OT
Look at the attempt of suppress the hominid fossils in Kenya.
http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/01/update_on_kenya.html

Other Comments by MelM

21. Comment #19047 by Russell Blackford on January 24, 2007 at 2:17 pm

I don't actually mind it - it's a talking point, and I'm not worried if it sounds a little uppity.

But I don't use it of myself, even though I might mention having some connections with the brights forum. I call myself a metaphysical naturalist, if anyone ever wants to know my philosophical position. That is stronger than atheism, since a lot of atheists nonetheless seem to believe in various spooky metaphysical properties and entities. In my circle of friends, disbelief in the Abrahamic God is fairly much assumed, so there's no point in mentioning atheism as such.

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22. Comment #19049 by antialiasis on January 24, 2007 at 2:20 pm

I have no problem with the word 'atheist', perhaps because in my mind it simply does not have any negative connotations.

I do agree that 'bright' is a bit of an unfortunate word - like many, it irks me that it seems to be implying superior intelligence. However, we shouldn't forget that 'bright' and 'atheist' do not mean the same thing. A bright is a person with a naturalistic worldview. Of course most them are also atheists, and most atheists are also brights, but it is a different concept so I don't see why the Brights Movement should be seen as 'relabelling' atheists. We're still atheists, even if we're brights. I don't use the word 'bright' to describe myself because of how easy it is to interpret it as a statement of superiority and usually I do not find it necessary to specify that I have a naturalistic world view beyond what the word 'atheist' already implies; however, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the term if it were to go into common usage, as that would automatically cause it to lose the adjective's meaning in our minds.

But this is an opinion that in my experience does not appear to be shared by many. For a similar reason, I quite frequently use the word 'God' as an exclamation and don't have a problem with saying "God bless you" if someone sneezes, as I feel that in these contexts the word 'God' is essentially absolutely meaningless. I am not referring to sexual intercourse if I hurt myself and shout 'f*ck'; neither am I referring to a supernatural being who supposedly created the universe when I begin a sentence in "My God" for emphasis. Today, "God bless you" means exactly the same thing as "Gesundheit", so I see no reason to avoid the phrase just because I'm an atheist. Similarly, if the word 'bright' got into common usage and began to really mean 'person with a naturalistic world view' and not 'intelligent person', I would not have a problem with identifying myself with it.

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23. Comment #19051 by debaser71 on January 24, 2007 at 2:26 pm

Godfrey is an awesome idea!

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24. Comment #19052 by John Turner on January 24, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Firstly, I think some people are looking at the word atheist in an unhelpful way by viewing it as the name for a group of people rather than a descriptive word for the sole fact that you, as an individual, are not a theist, and it neither does or need to represent anything else.

The label 'Bright' is not in fact a specific and descriptive word, and only has descriptive value to the people who invented it (or label themselves as one) and assigned all these different qualities that this word is supposed to represent. Using a term to collectively represent your thoughts, seems similar to choosing a political party. What if you agree with most of the views stated by the 'Brights' as a collective but disagree with one or a few, does this mean now that you cannot name yourself a 'Bright', or that you overlook these views and allow people to have misconceptions about what your actual true views are. Alternatively you could call yourself a 'Bright' but then explain the few views which the term is associated with that you do not share yourself, similar to ordering a full english breakfast and saying 'but hold the beans and tomatoes'. Why not just ask for some sausages, bacon and eggs in the first place.

I think calling yourself a 'Bright' ('Clear', or anything similar) could encourage unhelpful stereotyping. What if someone who called himself a Bright decided to go insane and murder somebody? This could be used against the others who call themselves 'Brights' by people who are against atheism. Creating the idea of a group rather than just a common view between certain people (that there is no supernatural being), I think, is the wrong direction in which to be going.

As far as being similar to homosexuals naming themselves as gay. I feel even this segregates and may put up false barriers. If I asked somebody about their sexuality I think it would be clearer for them to say that they prefer to, or only have, sexual relations with people of the same sex, than to label themselves as gay. The latter can bring up multiple stereotypes whereas the former is just a specific statement that should have no connotations about the rest of their life or personality.

Also I think using the term 'Brights' could make it harder for people to 'come out of the closet' because in lost of cases they would not have much choice at being associated with the term 'Brights', of which their religious loved ones could already have pre conceived ideas. Instead they could just explain to there families that they specifically do not believe in a supernatural being, and hopefully that there family and friends can view them as the same person apart from this one aspect (although i know in lots of cases people wouldn't be so accepting).

This turned into abit of a long one, basically what I wanted to say was -
I don't call myself an atheist, I describe myself as one.

Other Comments by John Turner

25. Comment #19054 by Russell Blackford on January 24, 2007 at 2:31 pm

I do worry that Kaminer wants to preserve the ethics of religion, including the concepts of sin and moral condemnation.

We obviously need the institution of morality in some form; so we need to retain moral condemnation (particularly of things like cruelty and violence). But the idea of sin is so tied up with the notion of acting against the will of a deity, and so tied up with inculcating guilt about various kinds of relatively harmless activities, that it is an idea that we should be very glad has almost disappeared from educated circles of society.

More generally, we should definitely not keep the ethics of religion. We should invent a more rational ethics that is based on our actual needs, interests, values, and so on. Once you realise that morality is based on those things - rather than on the will of deity or a timeless moral law that somehow exists independently of us - you realise that it can be changed and improved.

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26. Comment #19055 by Frostbit on January 24, 2007 at 2:39 pm

Why does there need to be a label?

I consider myself a human being, period.

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27. Comment #19056 by MacGruder on January 24, 2007 at 2:44 pm

I do not like "bright" for the reasons others have already articulated.

However, I think the term "atheist" is entrenched in many people's minds as "amoral". This is simply because they not do know the definition of atheist. I am sure if you asked many theists for the definition of atheist a lot of their answers would include phrases such as "without morals". This has much to do with the entrenchment of religion in our society, and with the way a word's meaning evolves over time.

The propositions:

Theist = Belief in God = Moral
Atheist = Non-belief = Amoral

have been reduced to:

Theist = Moral
Atheist = Amoral

In other words, "atheist" has become associated with amorality, rather than simply non-belief.

The word atheist carries too much baggage and it would take many generations to change people's understanding of the word. For this reason I prefer the term "non-theist". If people are not certain what this means, it provides me an opportunity to explain.

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28. Comment #19057 by Fouad Boussetta on January 24, 2007 at 2:54 pm

 avatarI really think you must have a pretty low emotional intelligence to call yourself a "Bright"... {Sorry.} There are so many other tags out there that you can use and that sound good!

P.S.: Just for laughs {:P}, check out apatheticagnostic.com: "We don't know, and we don't care."

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29. Comment #19058 by Electric Monk on January 24, 2007 at 2:57 pm

I hate the term bright - what's wrong with athiest? I've never heard of anyone making the assumption that athiests are amoral (or even immoral)except maybe from some really outspoken political god-botherers. Maybe it's different in the USA? Anyway brights is clearly a horrible term - arrogant and really lame!

Godfrey however is great! - I'm fine with Athiest but Godfrey is funny - take the piss out of stupid religious labels at the same time as asserting your belief.

GODFREY, and proud of it!

Other Comments by Electric Monk

30. Comment #19059 by Luthien on January 24, 2007 at 3:02 pm

 avatar5. Comment #19020 by jonathan espalin on January 24, 2007 at 12:05 pm
'Athiest and 'Bright' are both unfortunate terms. Athiest has, by definition, a negative meaning, and 'Bright' is not only confusing, but rather friilous-sounding. Whatever happened to the word "Naturalist," or "Naturalism.

LOL, if I went round telling people in Belfast that I was a 'naturalist', they would think that I was in the habit of walking round the house in my one button birthday suit.

I prefer Atheist, because I prefer to say "So what if I am?"

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31. Comment #19060 by Shuggy on January 24, 2007 at 3:06 pm

 avatarWhy the cute spelling? "godfree" works for me.

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32. Comment #19061 by Homo economicus on January 24, 2007 at 3:08 pm

 avatarDo not like the brights term either. Have posted the issue of a better modern term:

http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5744&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

My prefered phrase is a free thinker that takes a down to earth approach. Would love to see it on a T-shirt with a comission ;)

Other Comments by Homo economicus

33. Comment #19062 by Greywizard on January 24, 2007 at 3:24 pm

I think it's obvious we're not going to agree on a name. Put three atheists together and there'll be at least four opinions! I don't know what the problem is with being thought a bit arrogant, though. I should have thought, other things being equal, that those who claim to know what God says and wants, are much more arrogant than those who suggest that they know a thing or two. But, as I say, I think the name is probably a lost cause. Too bad, it seems to me it might have had some mileage in it. Perhaps Mr. Mark is right. Time to think about more serious things.

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34. Comment #19063 by MelM on January 24, 2007 at 3:33 pm

OT

The holymen are out after Dakota Fanning today because of her new film "Hounddog." For those who know what a talent she is and can spare some time, find a blog or message board and support her.

I just posted this short comment:
From what I've read, this is not a porn flick. Dakota Fanning is the brightest, most mature child I've ever seen and my hope is that she will become a truely great adult actress--visions of greatness are, sadly, far too rare today. I think she has the brains to avoid being turned into a bimbo.
The holymen ought to stay out of this and leave her alone; I'm sick to death of them. Go Dakota!!!!


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35. Comment #19064 by John Turner on January 24, 2007 at 3:34 pm

While we are talking about T-shirts, can someone make me one with 'I'm an Atheist, so Fuck you!' written on it. That'd be sweet

Other Comments by John Turner

36. Comment #19066 by the great teapot on January 24, 2007 at 3:44 pm

Grey wizard

You ask "why should n't we be arrogant,they are?"
why not ask- They believe in god, why shouldn't we?

Shuggy- Godfrey is a name- God free isn't.

Other Comments by the great teapot

37. Comment #19067 by a tree with roots on January 24, 2007 at 3:54 pm

 avatarI don't call myself an atheist, really, although I am one. I don't particularly like 'bright' either.

Godfrey made me laugh, though! I like it.

There's always the option of improving the connotation of 'atheist'?

Other Comments by a tree with roots

38. Comment #19071 by Joadist on January 24, 2007 at 4:22 pm

I prefer the term Atheist because it describes what I am. I am a-thiest -- without God.
I am atheist -- against theistic religion.

I am not a scientist, or a genius, or a brilliant thinker.

I did not arrive at my atheism by a cold, calculated intellectual exercise.

If Atheism is just a club for the intellectual elite, then I'll find something else that is a bit more moral.

Other Comments by Joadist

39. Comment #19077 by VrijzinnigMan on January 24, 2007 at 4:51 pm

I agree with "the great teapot" that it is not unlikely that the majority of the US population can soon (within a generation or two?) be non-religious. Compared to many European countries we are followers, but the US is ahead of the game compared to the Muslim theocracies.

To reach this goal will require a concerted effort on the part of atheists. Although Sam Harris is right that ultimately we will have to sway moderates as well as fundamentalist, I believe that initially we need to focus on the latter. If we want to deal with all religious people at once, we will be vastly outnumbered and will not be able to make any significant changes.

I like Michelle Goldberg's suggestion in "Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism". She explains how the Christian Right became so powerful and influential in US government. It really started with a grassroots movement during the Clinton administration. They identified a number of issues that resonated with the moderates and were able to infiltrate the Republican Party. Once in a position of power, they started showing their true face.

Goldberg proposes to turn the tables and to use the same strategy to curtail the Christian Right. For example, most moderates are not anti-evolution and they do not support creationism. We could team up with the moderates to forever keep the creation nonsense out of the classroom.

The fact that we identify ourselves as "atheists" is a problem. As others pointed out, it is negative and synonymous to "immoral". We could greatly benefit from a new catchy name. "Bright" is not good because it is arrogant, again as many others pointed out. I like Godfrey (or godfree), but perhaps we should put some more thought into it. Why not a poll on this web site?

Other Comments by VrijzinnigMan

40. Comment #19078 by Jez on January 24, 2007 at 5:13 pm

In this kingdom of cats...

I am a non-theist, same as a non-believer of nonsense. You can give me any title you wish, striped, persian or tabby. The fact remains that I am a cat.

Let's agree to disagree on the terminology and just agree on the facts; This is just a cats and dogs argument.

Other Comments by Jez

41. Comment #19079 by captain underpants on January 24, 2007 at 5:14 pm

 avatarWhy the f*** should we atheists think up a different name for ourselves just because the loonies don't like us?

Other Comments by captain underpants

42. Comment #19080 by Electric Monk on January 24, 2007 at 5:15 pm

I think a poll would be a good idea,

godfrey vs. athiest vs. bright

- any other suggestions?

Other Comments by Electric Monk

43. Comment #19083 by mjwemdee on January 24, 2007 at 5:45 pm

 avatarWhile we're talking lexicon here... I'm somewhat dismayed how many of us unbelievers seem unable to spell 'atheist' properly.
'Athiest'???? [as in: athie, athier, athiest? I think not.]

a = 'without' [Greek α]
theos = 'god' [θίος]

As for the term 'bright' - hmmm. Not sure. Think it sounds a bit self-congratulatory to me.

Other Comments by mjwemdee

44. Comment #19086 by Electric Monk on January 24, 2007 at 6:39 pm

good point, well made...

- bad at typing / spelling (and i don't really care when i'm typing quickly), so sue me. Although it makes the term 'bright' amusingly ironic.

Other Comments by Electric Monk

45. Comment #19087 by Zelgadis on January 24, 2007 at 6:40 pm

 avatarI'm not surprised that there are people who keep throwing that tired, idiotic argument of "oh my, that's so arrogant"(as opposed to that lovely "I'm an atheist so f**k you"), what does surprise me, and at the same time saddens me, is that it comes from other atheists.

If you don't like the harmless little moniker, then by all means don't use it, a simple "nah, I don't like it" would be sufficient, but apparently you also have to launch ridiculous attacks at those who find it adequate and are trying to be united(while keeping our many differences) against those who regard us as amoral and wish to deny us our rights.

Then again, it's not the first time I've encountered hate among my own kind, since I'm gay... oh, sorry, I wouldn't want to offend you by implying that I'm very happy and heterosexuals are all sad, you see, "gay" is a noun and I like it better than "homosexual" so I use it.

This whole argument is as nonsensical as the gay people who hate bisexuals because "they should pick one side"(and yes, it's not a joke, these people exist), or the ones who hate people who aren't "straight-acting" or those who hate transexuals, etc. As if there aren't enough people who despise us already.

So I'll happily use "Bright" and "secular humanist" or "naturalist" too. "Atheist" is not only negative, it's an incredibly useless word because everyone, no matter how religious, is an atheist about hundreds of gods, and they're all as real as the Judeo-Christian sky fairy. I'm not going to give it the privilege of being the default position for human beings to believe in it, I will not center my identity on denying it and I refuse to live my life calling myself that meaningless word. My beliefs are atheistic because I don't believe in deities, and that's that.

I thank you for reading through my rather long post and I hope that the tone of it isn't misconstrued as being angry, but merely disappointed. My warmest wishes for everyone.

Other Comments by Zelgadis

46. Comment #19088 by Alakan on January 24, 2007 at 6:58 pm

How about the Free Willy's?

Other Comments by Alakan

47. Comment #19089 by Phil on January 24, 2007 at 6:58 pm

31. Comment #19060 by Shuggy on January 24, 2007 at 3:06 pm
"Why the cute spelling? "godfree" works for me."

You are aware the Godfrey is a name, right?
Ironically, it appears to mean "God's peace".

On the subject of "Bright", I think that the term is extremely condescending. Perhaps it's not as bad as "The Geniuses" or some similar name, but it could turn off a great many people. Then again, our name is probably the least of our problems.

Other Comments by Phil

48. Comment #19090 by Alakan on January 24, 2007 at 7:19 pm

Might I suggest a theme song as well?

"Freewill" by the prog-rock group Rush.

Sample lyrics:

There are those who think that life
Has nothing left to chance,
With a host of holy horrors
To direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive,
The stars aren't aligned ---
Or the gods are malign
Blame is better to give than receive.

You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill,
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose free will.

Appropriate sentiments from three brilliant musicians and scholars.

Other Comments by Alakan

49. Comment #19091 by Qball on January 24, 2007 at 7:31 pm

Bright, Gay! Isn't it all a bit sad and lame to be having this debate. We lost a perfectly good word "gay" because people were uncomfortable with being called homosexual. Atheist is another perfectly good word and I can't see why we need to call ourselves anything else. Who cares what others think!
Those homosexuals of an atheist persuasion would need to call themselves Bright Gays. It all gets a bit ridiculous.

Other Comments by Qball

50. Comment #19093 by queen5102 on January 24, 2007 at 7:44 pm

Why don't we just take back the word "Right" since that is what we are? Instead of being people "on the right", we can be the people "who are Right" and just call ourselves Rights. Think about all the levels of meaning the word has and how the word has been misappropriated by people who are usually wrong. I guess that Rights may be considered to be more arrogant than Brights. ;)

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