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Sunday, April 1, 2007 | Science : Commentary | print version Print | Comments |

Document Postmodernism Disrobed

by Richard Dawkins, Nature

Richard Dawkins' review of Intellectual Impostures by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont. Profile Books 1998, £9.99. Published in U.S.A. by Picador as Fashionable Nonsense.

Published as 'Postmodernism Disrobed', Nature 394, pp 141-143, 9th July 1998 and, in abbreviated form, in A Devil's Chaplain.



Suppose you are an intellectual impostor with nothing to say, but with strong ambitions to succeed in academic life, collect a coterie of reverent disciples and have students around the world anoint your pages with respectful yellow highlighter. What kind of literary style would you cultivate? Not a lucid one, surely, for clarity would expose your lack of content. The chances are that you would produce something like the following:

We can clearly see that there is no bi-univocal correspondence between linear signifying links or archi-writing, depending on the author, and this multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis. The symmetry of scale, the transversality, the pathic non-discursive character of their expansion: all these dimensions remove us from the logic of the excluded middle and reinforce us in our dismissal of the ontological binarism we criticised previously.


This is a quotation from the psychoanalyst Félix Guattari, one of many fashionable French 'intellectuals' outed by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont in their splendid book Intellectual Impostures, which caused a sensation when published in French last year, and which is now released in a completely rewritten and revised English edition. Guattari goes on indefinitely in this vein and offers, in the opinion of Sokal and Bricmont, "the most brilliant mélange of scientific, pseudo-scientific and philosophical jargon that we have ever encountered." Guattari's close collaborator, the late Gilles Deleuze had a similar talent for writing:-

In the first place, singularities-events correspond to heterogeneous series which are organized into a system which is neither stable nor unstable, but rather 'metastable,' endowed with a potential energy wherein the differences between series are distributed . . . In the second place, singularities possess a process of auto-unification, always mobile and displaced to the extent that a paradoxical element traverses the series and makes them resonate, enveloping the corresponding singular points in a single aleatory point and all the emissions, all dice throws, in a single cast.


It calls to mind Peter Medawar's earlier characterisation of a certain type of French intellectual style (note, in passing the contrast offered by Medawar's own elegant and clear prose):

Style has become an object of first importance, and what a style it is! For me it has a prancing, high-stepping quality, full of self-importance; elevated indeed, but in the balletic manner, and stopping from time to time in studied attitudes, as if awaiting an outburst of applause. It has had a deplorable influence on the quality of modern thought . . .


Returning to attack the same targets from another angle, Medawar says:

I could quote evidence of the beginnings of a whispering campaign against the virtues of clarity. A writer on structuralism in the Times Literary Supplement has suggested that thoughts which are confused and tortuous by reason of their profundity are most appropriately expressed in prose that is deliberately unclear. What a preposterously silly idea! I am reminded of an air-raid warden in wartime Oxford who, when bright moonlight seemed to be defeating the spirit of the blackout, exhorted us to wear dark glasses. He, however, was being funny on purpose.


This is from Medawar 1968 Lecture on "Science and Literature", reprinted in Pluto's Republic (Oxford University Press, 1982). Since Medawar's time, the whispering campaign has raised its voice.

Deleuze and Guattari have written and collaborated on books described by the celebrated Michel Foucault as "among the greatest of the great. . . Some day, perhaps, the century will be Deleuzian." Sokal and Bricmont, however, comment that "These texts contain a handful of intelligible sentences — sometimes banal, sometimes erroneous — and we have commented on some of them in the footnotes. For the rest, we leave it to the reader to judge."

But it's tough on the reader. No doubt there exist thoughts so profound that most of us will not understand the language in which they are expressed. And no doubt there is also language designed to be unintelligible in order to conceal an absence of honest thought. But how are we to tell the difference? What if it really takes an expert eye to detect whether the emperor has clothes? In particular, how shall we know whether the modish French 'philosophy', whose disciples and exponents have all but taken over large sections of American academic life, is genuinely profound or the vacuous rhetoric of mountebanks and charlatans?

Sokal and Bricmont are professors of physics at, respectively New York University and the University of Louvain. They have limited their critique to those books that have ventured to invoke concepts from physics and mathematics. Here they know what they are talking about, and their verdict is unequivocal: on Lacan, for example, whose name is revered by many in humanities departments throughout American and British universities, no doubt partly because he simulates a profound understanding of mathematics:

. . . although Lacan uses quite a few key words from the mathematical theory of compactness, he mixes them up arbitrarily and without the slightest regard for their meaning. His 'definition' of compactness is not just false: it is gibberish.


They go on to quote the following remarkable piece of reasoning by Lacan:

Thus, by calculating that signification according to the algebraic method used here, namely:

S (signifier) = s (the statement),
s (signified)
With S = (-1), produces: s = sqrt(-1)


You don't have to be a mathematician to see that this is ridiculous. It recalls the Aldous Huxley character who proved the existence of God by dividing zero into a number, thereby deriving the infinite. In a further piece of reasoning which is entirely typical of the genre, Lacan goes on to conclude that the erectile organ

. . . is equivalent to the sqrt(-1) of the signification produced above, of the jouissance that it restores by the coefficient of its statement to the function of lack of signifier (-1).


We do not need the mathematical expertise of Sokal and Bricmont to assure us that the author of this stuff is a fake. Perhaps he is genuine when he speaks of non-scientific subjects? But a philosopher who is caught equating the erectile organ to the square root of minus one has, for my money, blown his credentials when it comes to things that I don't know anything about.

The feminist 'philosopher' Luce Irigaray is another who is given whole chapter treatment by Sokal and Bricmont. In a passage reminiscent of a notorious feminist description of Newton's Principia (a 'rape manual') Irigaray argues that E=mc2 is a 'sexed equation'. Why? Because 'it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us' (my emphasis of what I am rapidly coming to learn is an in-word). Just as typical of the school of thought under examination is Irigaray's thesis on fluid mechanics. Fluids, you see, have been unfairly neglected. 'Masculine physics' privileges rigid, solid things. Her American expositor Katherine Hayles made the mistake of re-expressing Irigaray's thoughts in (comparatively) clear language. For once, we get a reasonably unobstructed look at the emperor and, yes, he has no clothes:

The privileging of solid over fluid mechanics, and indeed the inability of science to deal with turbulent flow at all, she attributes to the association of fluidity with femininity. Whereas men have sex organs that protrude and become rigid, women have openings that leak menstrual blood and vaginal fluids. . . From this perspective it is no wonder that science has not been able to arrive at a successful model for turbulence. The problem of turbulent flow cannot be solved because the conceptions of fluids (and of women) have been formulated so as necessarily to leave unarticulated remainders.


You don't have to be a physicist to smell out the daffy absurdity of this kind of argument (the tone of it has become all too familiar), but it helps to have Sokal and Bricmont on hand to tell us the real reason why turbulent flow is a hard problem (the Navier-Stokes equations are difficult to solve).

In similar manner, Sokal and Bricmont expose Bruno Latour's confusion of relativity with relativism, Lyotard's 'postmodern science', and the widespread and predictable misuses of Gödel's Theorem, quantum theory and chaos theory. The renowned Jean Baudrillard is only one of many to find chaos theory a useful tool for bamboozling readers. Once again, Sokal and Bricmont help us by analysing the tricks being played. The following sentence, "though constructed from scientific terminology, is meaningless from a scientific point of view":

Perhaps history itself has to be regarded as a chaotic formation, in which acceleration puts an end to linearity and the turbulence created by acceleration deflects history definitively from its end, just as such turbulence distances effects from their causes.


I won't quote any more, for, as Sokal and Bricmont say, Baudrillard's text "continues in a gradual crescendo of nonsense." They again call attention to "the high density of scientific and pseudo-scientific terminology — inserted in sentences that are, as far as we can make out, devoid of meaning." Their summing up of Baudrillard could stand for any of the authors criticised here, and lionised throughout America:

In summary, one finds in Baudrillard's works a profusion of scientific terms, used with total disregard for their meaning and, above all, in a context where they are manifestly irrelevant. Whether or not one interprets them as metaphors, it is hard to see what role they could play, except to give an appearance of profundity to trite observations about sociology or history. Moreover, the scientific terminology is mixed up with a non-scientific vocabulary that is employed with equal sloppiness. When all is said and done, one wonders what would be left of Baudrillard's thought if the verbal veneer covering it were stripped away.


But don't the postmodernists claim only to be 'playing games'? Isn't it the whole point of their philosophy that anything goes, there is no absolute truth, anything written has the same status as anything else, no point of view is privileged? Given their own standards of relative truth, isn't it rather unfair to take them to task for fooling around with word-games, and playing little jokes on readers? Perhaps, but one is then left wondering why their writings are so stupefyingly boring. Shouldn't games at least be entertaining, not po-faced, solemn and pretentious? More tellingly, if they are only joking around, why do they react with such shrieks of dismay when somebody plays a joke at their expense. The genesis of Intellectual Impostures was a brilliant hoax perpetrated by Alan Sokal, and the stunning success of his coup was not greeted with the chuckles of delight that one might have hoped for after such a feat of deconstructive game playing. Apparently, when you've become the establishment, it ceases to be funny when somebody punctures the established bag of wind.

As is now rather well known, in 1996 Sokal submitted to the American journal Social Text a paper called 'Transgressing the Boundaries: towards a transformative hermeneutics of quantum gravity.' From start to finish the paper was nonsense. It was a carefully crafted parody of postmodern metatwaddle. Sokal was inspired to do this by Paul Gross and Normal Levitt's Higher Superstition: the academic left and its quarrels with science (Johns Hopkins, 1994), an important book which deserves to become as well known in Britain as it already is in America. Hardly able to believe what he read in this book, Sokal followed up the references to postmodern literature, and found that Gross and Levitt did not exaggerate. He resolved to do something about it. In Gary Kamiya's words:

Anyone who has spent much time wading through the pious, obscurantist, jargon-filled cant that now passes for 'advanced' thought in the humanities knew it was bound to happen sooner or later: some clever academic, armed with the not-so-secret passwords ('hermeneutics,' 'transgressive,' 'Lacanian,' 'hegemony,' to name but a few) would write a completely bogus paper, submit it to an au courant journal, and have it accepted . . . Sokal's piece uses all the right terms. It cites all the best people. It whacks sinners (white men, the 'real world'), applauds the virtuous (women, general metaphysical lunacy) . . . And it is complete, unadulterated bullshit — a fact that somehow escaped the attention of the high-powered editors of Social Text, who must now be experiencing that queasy sensation that afflicted the Trojans the morning after they pulled that nice big gift horse into their city.


Sokal's paper must have seemed a gift to the editors because this was a physicist saying all the right-on things they wanted to hear, attacking the 'post-Enlightenment hegemony' and such uncool notions as the existence of the real world. They didn't know that Sokal had also crammed his paper with egregious scientific howlers, of a kind that any referee with an undergraduate degree in physics would instantly have detected. It was sent to no such referee. The editors, Andrew Ross and others, were satisfied that its ideology conformed to their own, and were perhaps flattered by references to their own works. This ignominious piece of editing rightly earned them the 1996 Ig Nobel Prize for literature.
Notwithstanding the egg all over their faces, and despite their feminist pretensions, these editors are dominant males in the academic lekking arena. Andrew Ross himself has the boorish, tenured confidence to say things like "I am glad to be rid of English Departments. I hate literature, for one thing, and English departments tend to be full of people who love literature"; and the yahooish complacency to begin a book on 'science studies' with these words: "This book is dedicated to all of the science teachers I never had. It could only have been written without them." He and his fellow 'cultural studies' and 'science studies' barons are not harmless eccentrics at third rate state colleges. Many of them have tenured professorships at some of America's best universities. Men of this kind sit on appointment committees, wielding power over young academics who might secretly aspire to an honest academic career in literary studies or, say, anthropology. I know — because many of them have told me — that there are sincere scholars out there who would speak out if they dared, but who are intimidated into silence. To them, Alan Sokal will appear as a hero, and nobody with a sense of humour or a sense of justice will disagree. It helps, by the way, although it is strictly irrelevant, that his own left wing credentials are impeccable.

In a detailed post-mortem of his famous hoax, submitted to Social Text but predictably rejected by them and published elsewhere, Sokal notes that, in addition to numerous half truths, falsehoods and non-sequiturs, his original article contained some "syntactically correct sentences that have no meaning whatsoever." He regrets that there were not more of the latter: "I tried hard to produce them, but I found that, save for rare bursts of inspiration, I just didn't have the knack." If he were writing his parody today, he'd surely have been helped by a virtuoso piece of computer programming by Andrew Bulhak of Melbourne: the Postmodernism Generator. Every time you visit it, at http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/postmodern, it will spontaneously generate for you, using falutless grammatical principles, a spanking new postmodern discourse, never before seen. I have just been there, and it produced for me a 6,000 word article called "Capitalist theory and the subtextual paradigm of context" by "David I.L.Werther and Rudolf du Garbandier of the Department of English, Cambridge University" (poetic justice there, for it was Cambridge who saw fit to give Jacques Derrida an honorary degree). Here's a typical sentence from this impressively erudite work:

If one examines capitalist theory, one is faced with a choice: either reject neotextual materialism or conclude that society has objective value. If dialectic desituationism holds, we have to choose between Habermasian discourse and the subtextual paradigm of context. It could be said that the subject is contextualised into a textual nationalism that includes truth as a reality. In a sense, the premise of the subtextual paradigm of context states that reality comes from the collective unconscious.


Visit the Postmodernism Generator. It is a literally infinite source of randomly generated syntactically correct nonsense, distinguishable from the real thing only in being more fun to read. You could generate thousands of papers per day, each one unique and ready for publication, complete with numbered endnotes. Manuscripts should be submitted to the 'Editorial Collective' of Social Text, double-spaced and in triplicate.

As for the harder task of reclaiming humanities and social studies departments for genuine scholars, Sokal and Bricmont have joined Gross and Levitt in giving a friendly and sympathetic lead from the world of science. We must hope that it will be followed.

Comments 1 - 50 of 299 |

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1. Comment #29053 by Homo economicus on April 1, 2007 at 12:03 pm

 avatarI remember reading this in the The Devil's Chaplin. One would hope that editors would not be captured by hearing the right words but know if it was the right argument or not.

We, the general reader, may not be advanced in these fields, but clarity in scholarship goes along way. Telling the difference between assertion and evidence for a position; and contemplation about it.

Other Comments by Homo economicus

2. Comment #29060 by The author on April 1, 2007 at 1:01 pm

 avatarA recommendation on the issue of postmodern philosophy (the book is one of the sources Sokal and Bricmont used):

The Illusions of Postmodernism by Terry Eagleton.

Yes, Eagleton, the guy who wrote that bad review on The God Delusion. He and Richard at least share an equal hatred of postmodern nonsense.

Other Comments by The author

3. Comment #29072 by macronencer on April 1, 2007 at 1:43 pm

 avatarYes, I remember someone saying that Eagleton hated postmodernism. When I read his review, I actually thought it was postmodernism, but I now realise that I didn't know what the word really meant at that point: I now think his review was not postmodernism - although it certainly was baffling nonsense in places.

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4. Comment #29083 by lpetrich on April 1, 2007 at 2:37 pm

 avatarThat infamous Postmodernism Generator site is now at

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo

Other Comments by lpetrich

5. Comment #29092 by Richard Dawkins on April 1, 2007 at 3:35 pm

 avatarThe reason for posting this old review here is the arrival of the new article by Carolyn G Guertin, under the title "Is this another Sokal hoax?" When I first read the Guertin article, I genuinely thought it might be an All Fools' Day hoax, and I actually wrote to Alan Sokal to ask him. His reply included the following:-

How do you find these things?!? This is a real doozie! I wish I could claim that I had written it, but it is in fact far beyond my modest satirical talents. Anyway, it seems that the author really exists:
http://www.mcluhan.utoronto.ca/academy/carolynguertin/
and there are even photographs of her at
http://www.mcluhan.utoronto.ca/academy/carolynguertin/about.htm
This was her 2003 doctoral dissertation (in physics?) at the University of Alberta
http://www.mcluhan.utoronto.ca/academy/carolynguertin/diss.html
It is "under consideration by a major Canadian press and will be released in a Romanian translation later this year."
Her teaching philosophy is a gem, as well:
http://www.mcluhan.utoronto.ca/academy/carolynguertin/phil.html

The University of Toronto is a normally respectable university. Let us hope this woman is not occupying a position that might otherwise be held by a genuine scholar doing worthwhile research. It is tragic the way humanities departments have been taken over by second-rate fakes. And can you believe a 'major Canadian press' is seriously thinking of publishing this pretentious and meaningless garbage?

Richard

Other Comments by Richard Dawkins

6. Comment #29098 by Scifinerdgrl on April 1, 2007 at 3:50 pm

I'm am happily forever A.B.D. in my field because of the postmodernist takeover of its prestigious journals and conferences. In order to get published or get heard you have to toe this ridiculous line. Even though it's a humanities field, apparently a complete misunderstanding of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is a requisite for a Ph.D. Yes, children. Because physicists are uncertain about something we must all acknowledge that all half-baked opinions are equal to all *educated* opinions because nobody is sure of anything and all observation is relative. Research is futile. Why take a sabbatical, pay plane fare, and then suffer for hours on end in a stodgy European library when you can skim through a translation of a few texts, suggest the author may have been homosexual (and even if he wasn't, he wanted to be) and get published? Even though I managed to find a niche that was somewhat less insane, any job I could have wanted (and I did have a good starter job) would have depended on a faculty committee's approval for continuation... and the committees are now stuffed with 1) total nitwits who write this stuff and 2) total nitwits who think the nitwits who write this incomprehensible trash are brilliant. I left academia, doubled my salary, and never looked back. But this essay brings back memories. Thanks for making my Monday morning commute a little cheerier tomorrow.

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7. Comment #29106 by drive1 on April 1, 2007 at 4:10 pm

 avatarHonestly .. sex, sex, sex .. that's all these post-modernists ever think about. That and, of course, multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis.

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8. Comment #29107 by ajpb on April 1, 2007 at 4:14 pm

May I just make a quick point that has nothing to do with this specific news story.

It is heartening to see that the use of the Internet has flattened the social structure/traditional hierachy to the point where a reader can make a comment or ask a question about an author's work, and then receive a pubically accessible response and/or answer back from that author within an hour.

I of course think we are all immensely privileged that the technology has reached this stage, but, almost more-so that Richard Dawkins is adopting and using it in a way that will benefit everyone. I do not think most authors are as 'on call' to his/her readership!

Congratulations on your recent award. Having read several of your books, I do think it was well deserved. And happy belated birthday!

Alex.

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9. Comment #29109 by gorrepati on April 1, 2007 at 4:54 pm

This psuedo-science is prevalent is computers too. Djikstra(a reputed Computer scientist), though considered arrogant by many, is never the second to strip the emperor off his delusion. Check his writings here:
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2087
And his comments on how the world views(tolerates?) scientists and their work:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1041.html

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10. Comment #29110 by Polydactyl on April 1, 2007 at 4:58 pm

Either very funny or very embarrassing. I do assure you that not all of us at the University of Toronto write like that. Some of us favour the 'Faith, Hope and Clarity, and the greatest of these is Clarity' line: but I suppose that isn't quite right for an atheist website either.
The McLuhan Centre is 'for Culture and Technology': makes you think, doesn't it?

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11. Comment #29115 by AnnieKM on April 1, 2007 at 5:45 pm

Well, this brings back some unpleasant memories.

As a graduate student (at the University of Toronto no less!) I waded through this nonsense for 12 long months. I was never entirely sure I was bright enough to be there in the first place and so was routinely brought to tears of frustration by Lacan, Irigaray, and others.

I'm sorry to say that it never occurred to me at the time that I might be reading the work of fakes. That knowledge would have saved me some heartache.

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12. Comment #29124 by lpetrich on April 1, 2007 at 6:22 pm

 avatarI think that this also applies to postmodernism:

PZ Myers's The Courtier's Reply:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/12/the_courtiers_reply.php

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13. Comment #29129 by InManhattan on April 1, 2007 at 7:21 pm

I welcome all opportunities to attack postmodernism. It's the worst 'intellectual' movement ever devised.

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14. Comment #29131 by nancy2001 on April 1, 2007 at 7:34 pm

Thank you Dr. Dawkins for posting this excellent article. Back in the 60s a comedian named Prof. Irwin Corey often appeared on American TV. His routine was to deliver a lecture that consisted of multisyllabic nonsense. Apparently Carolyn Guertin is trying to steal his act.

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15. Comment #29134 by Tridhos on April 1, 2007 at 7:58 pm

 avatarI was taught in Engineering the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid

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16. Comment #29143 by Shnarkle on April 1, 2007 at 9:29 pm

I found a reference to "queer epistemology" on the Social Text website. My guess is it means knowing which curtains go with that wallpaper.

And this one is priceless: rethinking "queer critique in relation to the war on terrorism"...

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17. Comment #29157 by TheSemolian on April 1, 2007 at 11:49 pm

Postmodernism does harm beyond hampering research. An instructor might say to the impressionable: "Quantum feminisms are situated knowledges interpolated by experience and embodied presence and, most importantly, are personal philosophies," and the earnest among them will work at deciphering it, only to conclude that they aren't very bright.

At the same time I must confess a measure of envy the Guertin is making bank with this skill.

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18. Comment #29158 by DNAtheist on April 1, 2007 at 11:53 pm

 avatardrive1 said:
Honestly .. sex, sex, sex .. that's all these post-modernists ever think about. That and, of course, multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis.


And my postmodernist-to-english dictionary defines "multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis" as "sex." ;)

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19. Comment #29163 by Sam on April 2, 2007 at 12:33 am

 avatarAfter debating proponents of every kind of woo-woo imaginable on a regular basis for many years, i find that the single group i have gotten along with the least have been the postmodernists. Although it is hardly possible to disagree more strongly with anyone than i do with right-wing religious fundamentalist, at least we can agree that God either does or does not exist, that one of us is wrong if the other is right, and that it is not only a matter of subjective interpretation whether or not a sentence like "you shall stone him to death" in the Bible actually means "you shall stone him to death". If i don't agree with the fundamentalists on anything else, then at least we can have a meaningful conversation about where and how we disagree.

The postmodernists however only seem interested in undermining any attempt at a meaninful conversation. If we cannot even agree on the most basic concepts of "real", communication breaks down completely, which is of course exacly what the postmodernists want because that way they don't have to be open to persuasion through argument. It is just another immunizing-strategy and a way to make sure that communication fails lest it might cause you to re-evaluate your beliefs. No matter what arguments or facts might be presented, they can always be dismissed as just another "opinion" or "cultural construct" with no reference to anything in the "real" world. They are free to think this of course, but their hypocracy is thinking they still have anything worthwhile to say. I suggest they take Alan Sokal's advice and quit wasting my time:

"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.)"

There is nothing particularly brilliant about the insight that for the most part things are not "black and white" (the false dichotomy fallacy). The postmodernists however, blinded by the cosmic revelation that thing are not black and white, head straight for the opposite extreme (see the irony of that?) and conclude that it is all grey (the false continuum fallacy). If the distinctions are fuzzy and not black and white, the postmodernists conclude that there are no real distinctions at all.

Because the postmodernists don't see the world in black and white, they also seem to take it more or less for granted that everybody else does, hence the arrogance and condescension that typifies the group as a whole.

Other Comments by Sam

20. Comment #29167 by steve_kap on April 2, 2007 at 1:15 am

When such text is published, I believe two lies are being perpetrated:

Lie 1: That something meaningful has been written
Lie 2: That something meaningful has been comprehended

Sokal has implemented an experiment that exposed lie #2 (by writing something meaningless, and having it be taken as meaningful). Can anybody imagine an experiment that would expose lie #1?

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21. Comment #29187 by Luthien on April 2, 2007 at 2:41 am

 avatarAs a student, I remember a housemate was required to take a module on "Philosophy of Science" (as part of a proper SCIENCE degree in Queen's University, Belfast), and came to show me a philosophical definition of "space" they were required to study. It started out saying that Space is that where that which is, is not, and then somehow managed to go on for several pages. Neither of us could make head nor tail of the rest of it, probably because we were from Science and Engineering degrees respectively, and not used to having to pretend to understand bullshit.

Anyone who cannot express their ideas clearly and concisely does not belong in Academia.

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22. Comment #29188 by silves93 on April 2, 2007 at 2:42 am

Dawkins seems to be writing off postmodernism because of its fraudulent, glory-seeking and gullible fools. He's not the only one: I overheard someone on the tube say "have you heard Dr Gillian McKeith's not a real doctor? You can't trust scientists can you?"

There are charlatans and fools in every discipline, but one cannot write off the large body of fascinating and insightful postmodernist work just because of some crap papers and some idiots who were taken in by a smart-arse. I've always supported and defended Dawkins - I'd agree that he's arrogant but assert that he's right and his motives are pure. After this vindictive and narrow-minded article I'm not so sure.

I have worked in an academic capacity in both an English and a Computer Science department. Both have equal measures of arrogance and condescension. But perhaps that's just academics?

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23. Comment #29191 by Bremas on April 2, 2007 at 2:59 am

silves93
"Dawkins seems to be writing off postmodernism because of its fraudulent, glory-seeking and gullible fools."
Can you give me an example of something which might make sense?
I am looking at a postmodernist book I have on my bookshelf (that I was gullible enough to buy) right now. "Multitude"...quick review...what a load of horse shit.

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24. Comment #29203 by silves93 on April 2, 2007 at 4:08 am

Bremas
Quick review? Would one attempt to appreciate computational linguistics in a quick review? Discussion of automata and context-sensitive grammar might seem superficially to be worthless, dull twaddle, but it's not. It's not expected or even acceptable for a layman to debate with a scientist on issues of science but it is fine for postmodernism to be dismissed after a quick review? Is this the rational and intellectual rigour that us lot are supposed to espouse so passionately?

I could provide many examples of postmodernist concepts that, with some study, might make sense. But everyone here seems to have made up their minds.

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25. Comment #29204 by Richard Dawkins on April 2, 2007 at 4:08 am

 avatarWould silves93 (Comment 29188) accept that, far from being gullible fools, Guattari, Deleuze, Lacan and Irigaray are among the recognized leading lights of postmodernism in the world? If so, would silves93 please furnish a translation into clear and meaningful English of any one of the quotations given above, plus a defence of the proposition that any one of them is 'fascinating' or 'insightful'? Fascinating? Insightful? Let's hear it, please.

I can imagine only one defence, which might go something like this. "The technical language of quantum theory, too, is extremely hard to understand. Here is a paragraph from a learned journal of quantum theory. Please furnish us with a translation into clear and meaningful English." I accept that this challenge might be impossible to meet. So, what is the difference? The difference is that quantum theory makes predictions about experimental measurements in the real world, which are verified to an accuracy equivalent (in Richard Feynman's vivid analogy) to specifying the width of North America to within one hairsbreadth. That's how quantum theory buys the right to be unintelligible to non-specialists. Could silves93 or anyone else ever make such a claim for postmodernism?

Richard

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26. Comment #29206 by macronencer on April 2, 2007 at 4:47 am

 avatarI, too, would like to see a defence of Postmodernism that makes sense, but I'm not holding my breath. When objectivity is abandoned, one is left with a big fat zero, and, like the little dots on a TV set tuned to nothing but static, the syllables flow at random. Apply that philosophy to ethics, politics and economics, and civilization would vanish overnight. One is reminded of the nightmare world of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". I want nothing whatever to do with such destructive nonsense.

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27. Comment #29209 by William on April 2, 2007 at 5:09 am

I suggest that if someone could provide a clear and meaningful translation of these papers they should be eligible for James Randi's million dollar prize. Such exposition would at least be astounding, if not actually supernatural.

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28. Comment #29210 by Jef on April 2, 2007 at 5:28 am

 avatarComment #29203 by silves93:

"It's not expected or even acceptable for a layman to debate with a scientist on issues of science..."


Excuse me but, says who?

...but it is fine for postmodernism to be dismissed after a quick review?


I don't think anyone has dismissed postmodernism as a whole quite yet. They have however been extremely critical of certain postmodernist writers.

If, perhaps, you would care to grant us an interpretation of the material quoted in the opening post which gives us all a clearer understanding of its substance then I'd certainly be grateful.

(Aside) How exactly does one become a 'postmodernist' in any case? On a literal reading one would expect it to involve some form of time travel...

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29. Comment #29211 by katiemuffett on April 2, 2007 at 5:36 am

 avatarAt last, a form of feminism with NO fluid control.

Reminds me of those commercials when I was a kid "Mom, do you ever get that not-so-fresh feeling?"

I go to read an article during my lunch hour and what do I get? Male power rods and feminist fluids. Thank you very much.

"Tastes like...burning!"

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30. Comment #29212 by William on April 2, 2007 at 5:38 am

"I don't think anyone has dismissed postmodernism as a whole quite yet."

I have. Everything about postmodernism enrages me. Even the name "postmodernism" - it's not post-modern. It's pre-modern. It's pre-science, pre-Enlightenment.

It's utter nonsense. All of it. It's the reason I dropped my English major. It was exasperating, plowing through nonsensical, jargon-filled propaganda pieces. Cultural constructs and meta-narratives in "Turn of the Screw," etc. Bah! I have better things to do with my life.

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31. Comment #29213 by Jef on April 2, 2007 at 5:41 am

 avatarComment #29212 by William.

I have. Everything about postmodernism enrages me. Even the name "postmodernism"


I stand corrected..

:D

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32. Comment #29216 by WilliamP on April 2, 2007 at 5:53 am

I actually had a friend who was interested in Feminism tell me that Feminist writing is so unclear because the level of argument involved is embarassingly simplistic when compared to most other academic writing. She went on to assure me, however, that it was good academic work.

Many people in academics know that this sort of thing is going on all the time. I wonder why more don't speak out about it.

Then again, out of those who arent't doing it, maybe it's just a few who realize it. Some people with Phd's just don't know how to reason. I have had professors who didn't know what circular arguments were!

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33. Comment #29225 by Richard Dawkins on April 2, 2007 at 6:36 am

 avatarDawkins's Law of the Conservation of Difficulty states that obscurantism in an academic discipline expands to fill the vacuum of its intrinsic simplicity.

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34. Comment #29228 by Nikki on April 2, 2007 at 6:51 am

:)))
RAmen

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35. Comment #29230 by katiemuffett on April 2, 2007 at 6:53 am

 avatarSpeaking from outside academic discipline, I have always wanted to know how simplicity stands in terms of analysis and - ultimately - truth, in academic study.

"Some people with Phd's just don't know how to reason."

During the Christmas debate at the Dana Centre last year, I was shocked at how some of the panellists generalised so broadly, even guessing at figures and percentages. I know it was intended as informal, but they were still mean to be speaking in their professional capacities. The level of bias all round seemed pretty obstructive to reason.

To a lay person, it isn't clear when academics are working using precision and accuracy and when they are 'inspired' (to use a dubious word) in the Eintsteinian sense.

I think this is a crucial point in Sam Harris' latest debate, about atheism (science more particularly) having such terrible PR. Science as a whole is quite exclusive, even to someone like me who desperately tries to comprehend what people like Dawkins are talking about.

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36. Comment #29231 by Nupert on April 2, 2007 at 6:54 am

Automata and grammar theory in computer science have many applications, such as compilers for programming languages - unlike the postmodernist gibberish that is completely disconnected from reality. Furthermore there are numerous works by varying authors available that teach these concepts. If you don't understand something, it is at least easy to find materials that explain the concepts used in a way that is rigorious, thorough and devoid of hand-waving, even if the learning itself will take some effort.

Same goes for quantum mechanics. If you really want to understand the meaning of a QM text, it is not hard to map out what actions it would take to gain that understanding.

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37. Comment #29233 by epeeist on April 2, 2007 at 6:59 am

 avatarI don't know whether Douglas Adams was doing it deliberately, but it all sounds like Arthur and Ford's analysis of Vogon poetry.

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38. Comment #29239 by silves93 on April 2, 2007 at 7:38 am

Richard:
The postmodernism being presented and discussed here is mostly the waffly bullshit which absolutely exists and has been quoted above and justifiably savaged. And I should probably concede that as someone who thinks it's useful there has been written an embarrassing amount of turgid rubbish, perhaps enough to warrant this kind of attack by people I would otherwise esteem very highly.

But postmodernism neither starts or ends with Guattari or Deleuze and I would say one could come to an excellent appreciation of what the postmodern is and how it can help us understand our society without even glancing in the direction of their pygmy gibberish.

I studied postmodernism in literature. I am unable to read Angela Carter, Julian Barnes, Salman Rushdie, Umberto Eco without encountering postmodern themes. I do not think many of their works can be read in anything but a superficial way without an understanding of postmodernism. One is unable to turn on the TV without encountering pastiche, meta-narratives, grand narratives and simulation: all this jargon really means something, a lot more then 'archi-writing' does, and an understanding of it helps me understand why the world is as it is. Postmodernism can be interesting, enlightening and useful in a day-to-day way which specifying the width of North America to within one hairsbreadth is not, astounding as that is and as useful as it probably is in certain situations.

macronencer:
Postmodernism is not objectivity abandoned, but that's what everyone seems to get hung up on. Many academics don't accept Derrida's type of Deconstruction as anything but an interesting aside that is ultimately unhelpful.

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39. Comment #29243 by EnricoPallazzo on April 2, 2007 at 8:03 am

 avatarExcellent critique of the type of gibberish that has always frustrated me.
I wasnt aware of Sokal's hoax until this moment but it reminds me of a literary hoax in Australia in the 1940s. Two writers exposed the nonsensical surrealism in the modernist poetry of the day by publishing hoax poems in a magazine called Angry Penguins.

http://www.ernmalley.com/index.html

(epeeist - I think I prefer the Vogon poetry :)

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40. Comment #29245 by fonex_86 on April 2, 2007 at 8:08 am


postmodernism
noun

A late 20th-century style and concept in the arts, architecture, and criticism that represents a departure from modernism and has at its heart a general distrust of grand theories and ideologies as well as a problematical relationship with any notion of "art."


Is this what everyone takes to be "postmodernism", or are there more strings attached? Excuse my ignorance, but I must admit I'm not familiar with the term...

Could someone be kind enough to explain?

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41. Comment #29250 by Nupert on April 2, 2007 at 8:31 am

Social constructs and metanarratives... I can see the appeal of thinking like a postmodernist here, just brand any given concept I don't like as such and suddenly it doesn't "really" exist or matter and I can go on pretending I'm above it myself. Selectively apply these to things I don't like and the world is just the way I want it to be. This is what postmodernism basically is, different ways of saying how things don't matter because they're not real or are really in fact just the same in some kooky relative sense. And a good helping of gibberish to obscure the fact.

And of course a postmodernist sees these concepts everywhere he turns, that's how the human brain works, it likes to recognize patterns it has learned. That doesn't necessarily mean that there's any practical value to these, though. A bit like seeing a phallic symbol in every imaginable pointy object in existence, something regrettably many of these people also like to do.

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42. Comment #29252 by JasonG on April 2, 2007 at 8:48 am

 avatarGersh's Corollary to Dawkins's Law of the Conservation of Difficulty states that obscurantism in an scholar's writing expands to fill the vacuum of his intrinsic ignorance.

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43. Comment #29257 by jeepyjay on April 2, 2007 at 9:08 am

 avatarIn response to EnricoPallazo: surely there cannot be such a think as "hoax poetry" since there are no standards of objectivity by which poetry can be judged.

One can have parodies written in the style of an established poet, or one can write under a pen-name, perhaps in cooperation with a colaborator (like the two men who wrote the Ellery Queen mysteries), or one can write as if in an old style (as in McPherson's "Ossian"), or one can write deliberate nonsense verse (like Lewis Carroll and Edward Lear).

Frankly a lot of Ezra Pound or T.S.Eliot makes as much sense as Edward Lear to me.

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44. Comment #29262 by danceswithanxiety on April 2, 2007 at 10:02 am

 avatarPicking up on something silves93 said: while I have appreciated Sokal and Bricmont's efforts in exposing these 'postmodern' frauds, there is a straw man element to this work. Not everything labeled 'postmodern' deserves dismissal, and more to the point, it is not difficult to find clear expressions of postmodern themes and ideas. Stanley Fish leaps to mind -- I would love to see a convincing Sokal/Bricmont-style debunking of the sort of antifoundationalism propounded in works like "The Trouble With Principle" and "There's No Such Thing as Free Speech," where a serious (and lucid) attack on enlightenment rationality can be found.

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45. Comment #29264 by nine9s on April 2, 2007 at 10:28 am

In my last year of college, it was announced that Derrida was coming to campus to give a talk. It was in 2000 or 2001, I think. I knew he was a philosopher, but I didn't know he was still alive; I probably would have guessed he was one of those old Enlightenment philosophers. Anyway, I went to the talk, and it was standing-room only. The aisles were packed, people were sitting on the floor, and people were hanging out the entrance doors. A real-life, big-name philosopher! The fire marshall would not have been pleased. I expected some postmodern B.S., but I also thought this was a good opportunity to try and glean something insightful from it.

I was disappointed, to say the least. After a minute or two (that's all it took) the talk was totally incomprehensible. Now, I'd also been to a similar physics lecture with a physics grad student I was dating, and I didn't understand that either. But at least the physics lecturer used language intelligibly. Derrida just played word games: He would talk about the various meanings of one word, which led to defining one of those meanings, which led to "exploring" the web of meanings for another word, peppering it all with bizarre "isms."

After maybe twenty minutes (maybe more, I don't really remember), I just couldn't stand it anymore. I squeezed past the people in the aisles and the people hanging out the door, bitterly disappointed that I lived in a world where no adults seemed to even be interested in intelligibility or in life's important questions. Outside the doors, I spotted a classmate and we talked about the nonsense that today passes as philosophy. We were at least able to confirm for each other that some sanity was left in the world, but a few students standing against the whole of academia aren't going to feel very secure about their independent findings. Thankfully I had already discovered Ayn Rand's writings, which are a model of clarity, and met some other Rand fans I could philosophize with.

I fucking hate postmodernism. It's a totally inexcusable breach of rationality, of character, of the trust that students have that their teachers can point the way toward meaningful answers to humanity's deepest questions. Postmodernists are frauds, pure and simple. Any merit that it may actually have is apparently buried so deep in bullshit that only the tenured have the time and inclination to wade through it. Meanwhile, legions of students are being taught every year that life is meaningless and incomprehensible, and any desire to make sense of it all is a sign of intellectual immaturity, something that college should help them grow out of.

Sorry for the length. I'm pretty bitter about the subject, to say the least.

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46. Comment #29270 by Richard Dawkins on April 2, 2007 at 11:42 am

 avatarYou might think a definiton of 'postmodernism' would be helpful at this point, so I looked up the Oxford Dictionary:-

Postmodernism: The state, condition, or period subsequent to that which is modern; spec. in architecture, the arts, literature, politics, etc, any of various styles, concepts, or points of view involving a conscious departure from modernism, esp. when characterized by a rejection of ideology and theory in favour of a plurality of values and techniques. Also in extended use in general contexts, freq. used ironically.

Not a lot of help! So I looked elsewhere and found the following page which lists no fewer than fourteen definitions of postmodernism (none of them being the OED's).
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:postmodernism&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
As far as I can judge, not one of the 14 bears any close resemblance to any other member of the 14, and I can discern little in the way of clear meaning in any of them. What meaning I can discover doesn't give confidence that postmodernism is a coherent body of theory at all. The first definition, for example says

. . . views which, for example, stress the priority of the social to the individual; which reject the universalizing tendencies of philosophy; which prize irony over knowledge; and which give the irrational equal footing with the rational in our decision procedures all fall under the postmodern umbrella.

"Falling under an umbrella" is not what you'd call a precise or usable definition. What could it possibly mean to "stress the priority of the social to the individual"? Priority in what sense? I suppose I can just about see what it might mean to reject the universalizing tendencies of philosophy, but is there any necessary connection between that and the other parts of the definition? How do you "prize" irony over knowledge, and why should you want to? As for giving "the irrational equal footing with the rational" . . . maybe that just about sums the whole thing up.

The impression conveyed by all the definitions together is that what we have here is at best vague muddle-headedness and at worst outright charlatanry. Can anybody produce a single, clear, meaningful and coherent definition to rebut this negative impression? It would be nice to discover that this particular Emperor has at least a few wisps of underwear. My impression remains what it has always been, however: the Postmodern Emperor is not only bereft of clothes. He doesn't even have a skin.

Richard

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47. Comment #29272 by Robert on April 2, 2007 at 12:01 pm

 avatarOne clear sign that postmodernism is BS is its hostility to science. PM asserts that science wrongly claims to describe the physical world that surrounds us. In this it echoes the basic tenet of relativists that all points of view are equally valid. Scientific truth, it is asserted, is only one of many truths, or rather just 'one story among many' The American philosopher Richard Rorty, a leading exponent of the view that there is no truth, but only truths, ridicules those who seek the truth as 'lovably old fashioned prigs' He maintains, with a refreshing directness unusual among postmodernists (who rarely make simple and direct statements) that truth is what your contemporaries allow you to get away with. According to postmodernists, scientists have not discovered laws of nature, but constructed them.

As Dawkins points out this twenty four carat bullshit does not stop the postmodernists travelling to international conferences by aeroplanes, whose safety, one would have thought, might be regarded as highly uncertain if the laws of aerodynamics were mere social constructs.

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48. Comment #29278 by reggiedixon on April 2, 2007 at 12:52 pm

I don't know if this is just a restatement of the Popper falsifibility test but is the test whether it is possible to tell the difference between a parody or the real thing? Rather like religious fundamentalist writings it seems impossible to write anything weird enough that wouldn't pass as the "real" thing. I had a brief scan of the table of contents of "Postmodernist Deconstruction for Dummies - A Survivor's Guide to Building Your Academic Career" which I initially took to be satire but now I'm not so sure.

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49. Comment #29279 by JasonG on April 2, 2007 at 12:57 pm

 avatarIn comment # 29272, Robert notes that one of the hallmarks of postmodernism is hostility toward science. In my own field of musicology, I've encountered a wide range of attitudes toward science and scientific methodology. There are some who embrace it wholeheartedly--mostly those investigating compositional algorithms or studying music cognition. However, there are plenty of others who reject or even ridicule it. (I discuss this problem in some more depth here, for those who are curious: http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6772.)

I would be curious to hear about the experiences of others in the humanities whose interest in science or dislike of postmodernism led to conflicts with colleagues or advisors.

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50. Comment #29281 by epeeist on April 2, 2007 at 1:06 pm

 avatarComment #29277 by september

[snip]

A very long ad hominem attack.

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