1. Comment #29585 by AtheistJunkie on April 3, 2007 at 1:46 pm

This is a good example of how the bible is applied without cherry-picking. These people are practicing exactly what the bible says (especially the old testament)

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2. Comment #29587 by dinoboy on April 3, 2007 at 1:56 pm

My first reaction was, "is this for real?" The narrator said that the family is popular here in the states and I've never heard of 'em (not that I know a whole lot of folks...)

I agree that this might be a good "grass roots" lesson for many less-commited christians (though I think these folks might have more wrong with them than just strong religious beliefs, "you will eat your babies"? that's way beyond sunday school lessons - egads).

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3. Comment #29588 by timelady on April 3, 2007 at 1:58 pm

http://www.addictedtohate.com/news.php is a website devoted to exposing fred phelps as a deeply psychotic individual. its a cult, like most (all?) religions.

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4. Comment #29589 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:06 pm

Dude... This has got to be a hoax.

If they're well known in america, I've never heard of them.

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5. Comment #29590 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:10 pm

Josh,
Are you sure you didn't just get had by a April Fools Day satire. A little belatedly.

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6. Comment #29591 by BlkSwrd on April 3, 2007 at 2:15 pm

This has to truly be one of the most frightening videos I have seen to date. I don't see how they can reasonably expect that pushing reasonable people so much as they do can't have serious consequences including and not limited to violent actions taken against them. Consider if an individual in grief suddenly snaps! I don't condone such an action but to think it not likely is pure stupidity on their part. Pitiful. Simply child abuse at its most insideous. Just plain pitiful.

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7. Comment #29592 by bhoytony on April 3, 2007 at 2:18 pm

They are real, just Google for them. Here's a link to a video from Aussie TV which not only gives you some idea of what they are like, but also rips the piss out of them completely. It's hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE

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8. Comment #29593 by admin on April 3, 2007 at 2:18 pm

Fred Phelps and his family are for real. Here's a clip from Michael Moore's "The Awful Truth" TV show a few years back with the Phelps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33-_9nOX8KM

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9. Comment #29594 by AtheistJunkie on April 3, 2007 at 2:20 pm

Bremas, unfortunately this is not a hoax and I have heard of those numb nuts.

The right winger fanatic Hannity was attacking those people. Fox Noise looks tame compared to these people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D84Q6YGLeIs

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10. Comment #29595 by stuartM02 on April 3, 2007 at 2:22 pm

It is not satire, even though Louis is very funny. I have seen several clips on youtube from fox et al in the past.

I watched the show last night and the overriding theme was how nice all the children were, but nevertheless still thought everyone else was going to hell and god kills american soliders ect becuase the "US tolereates fags" as "God hates fags". There was this lovely witty 17 year old girl who you thought still might have a notion of commmon sense - but I think she had gone. If RD was right about the child abuse of religon, this has to be the worst case. It was very saddening.

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11. Comment #29596 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:23 pm

Currently trying to research this...

For all those not in US..info alert.

There is a very well coordinated effort by nationwide motorcycle groups to show up to military funerals as a silent "counter wall" between anti-war protesters and funeral observers. If this were for real… I don't think the motorcycle groups would have any problem with being a "little more than silent".

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12. Comment #29597 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Okay,
Read a few more posts. If they are for real then, Jesus H. Fucking Christ... I stand corrected.

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13. Comment #29598 by plastictowel on April 3, 2007 at 2:26 pm

It's no april fools joke, I saw this woman on "Fox News" (I only watch it to understand the "other" side, and I almost always disagree) doing exactly this kind of protesting about 12-14 months ago.

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14. Comment #29599 by jonecc on April 3, 2007 at 2:28 pm

The really depressing thing about the program was how successfully the belief system transmitted itself from generation to generation. Grandad Phelps taught it to his daughter, and she taught it to her (11) children. It's hard to see how it could ever end.

Of course, you would expect the surviving religions to be successful at this, by definition.

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15. Comment #29600 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:30 pm

AtheistJunkie post 9

Just watched your fox news clip.

Once again
Jesus H. Fucking Christ!!! I stand corrected.

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16. Comment #29601 by ao9news on April 3, 2007 at 2:36 pm

It is not a joke, they've been around for quite a while. I've only been living in the U.S. for some years and I've heard of them a couple of times. They've been in enough serious news outlets and internet websites to make me 98% sure that they're not joking. Those are real funerals too.

There are high-quality torrents, just in case you are interested. There is a super fast torrent right now at www.sonofshun.com. You need to register first (free). There is a lot of other very interesting content on that website too, you won't be disappointed. If you do download the torrent, please keep seeding (as if I had to say it).

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17. Comment #29602 by SonOfPearl on April 3, 2007 at 2:37 pm

It's hard to imagine what better example you could have for religion screwing up people's minds, and for showing that indoctrinating children with religion is child abuse.

I watched the show as well and it was truly frightening how completely lacking in any compassion these people were.

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18. Comment #29604 by ghostbuster on April 3, 2007 at 2:42 pm

Being in America, they had better be careful of drive-by shooters. Some people actually care about what they say.

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19. Comment #29606 by A_Hamilton7 on April 3, 2007 at 2:49 pm

This group is nearly beyond my comprehension as a human. Sadly, I have heard of them before, partially because the state I live in (Iowa) passed a law blocking protests within 500 feet of a funeral, primarily because of this group.

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20. Comment #29609 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 2:59 pm

I'm still in disbelief.

Anyone think there is more than a little inbreeding going on here.

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21. Comment #29610 by Seti on April 3, 2007 at 3:03 pm

Here's another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5AMi7v53bw&NR=1
It's really weeerd to see a perfectly ordinary girl sitting there describing the tortures of hell ("flames coming out of your eyes") in the most matter-of-fact voice, then smiling brightly as she says "You're going to hell."

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22. Comment #29611 by Veronique on April 3, 2007 at 3:04 pm

It seems to me that America is obsessed with sex.

When Life of Brian was released in 1979 (I think) in New York, John Cleese made a similar comment.

Watching these videos reminded me that both the gay murder and funeral scenes were part of the 1st season of 6' Under. I didn't realise until now that those scenes reflected this Phelps' gay bashing lot.

Phelps is getting old and will die soon, so his wife and children should be safe from the bashings detailed in timelady's link.

Why has this woman had 11 children!!
Chaser's War on Everything is wonderful at highlighting and spoofing all cant and dogma. Thank god their new season has started down here. I think all Aussies have missed this show.

Find more of their clips on

http://abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war/

Thankfully our basic irreverance to everything stops the sort of religious hatred that exists in the US. Let's hope we stay that way.

Cheers
V

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23. Comment #29613 by woe-monger on April 3, 2007 at 3:38 pm

Don't you just love 'em? Finally, here are decent, god-fearing folks who are prepared to live by their convictions. As the journalist says in the programme, the hatred that they show is in the bible. With a few more families like these, your average person on the street might start wondering about what is really in the bible, instead of accepting the words of wisdom from their favourite crap spouter's Sunday sermon.

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24. Comment #29614 by Celandine on April 3, 2007 at 3:39 pm

Sadly, they're very real. Shirley Phelps spoke at my university last autumn; I was unable to attend the debate due to another commitment, unfortunately. Or perhaps fortunately as it would have been difficult to remain polite in the face of such bigotry.

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25. Comment #29615 by RascoHeldall on April 3, 2007 at 3:40 pm

Why can't I help feeling that Phelps' psychotic hatred of homosexuals might have more to do with the repression of his sexuality than devotion to Christ?

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26. Comment #29617 by amazeen on April 3, 2007 at 3:47 pm

Unfortunately this is not a joke, not a hoax and not an april fools spoof. These people are for real and I have heard of them several times, even though I don´t live in the US. These are the people that disrupt funerals of US soldiers, gays and others they don´t like. But as someone but it here above, this is a good lesson in christianity for those liberal "believers", if you think that silly book is correct than at least read it and know what it says.

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27. Comment #29618 by StephenH on April 3, 2007 at 3:53 pm

Reginald Finley (The Infidel Guy)

He interviewed Tim Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church

Some people phoned in and gave him a hard time, and he was aggressive back.

Quite a good interview, Reginald did his best, with being patient with him, to try to get some explanations out of him. I didn't hear anything convincing come out of Tim Phelps mouth

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28. Comment #29619 by the great teapot on April 3, 2007 at 3:58 pm

The whole time I watched this I just keept thinking to myself "how does this differ from Christianity, Judaism and Islam?"
All they said was "we know the word of God, Join us you'll be saved .If you don't you'll burn in hell. Lust is evil." Religious leaders say this kind of thing everyday. One of the few differences I could see was these people weren't out to convert anybody by flattering them. The church tells us we all have original sin and we are going to hell unless we believe and yet when we die, regardless of how we have lived our lives they will gladly bury us as if we were believing saints all our lives.But the biggest difference was there are only a few of them, if halve the country believed in what they preached they would be considered normal. They are religion distilled. But unlike the catholic church they haven't burned anyone to death, so they are one up on them.

And is it just me but the frequent aggresive, violence threatening comments that appear on Youtube put me off posting anything on there.

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29. Comment #29621 by Rtambree on April 3, 2007 at 4:07 pm

Like WACO, Jonestown, Schäfer, Manson, Heaven's Gate, Shinrikyo, Jeffs, etc, it'll probably all end in tears.

Take one highly charismatic leader with a rampant Y chromosone (most of these leaders have >10 children), add isolation and indocrination, mix in a a gross distortion of orthodox religion (the vulnerable are already targeted) and finally add an apocalyptic doomsday prophecy, and you got yourself a cult.

Prediction - there'll be some violent act, mass suicide, impregnation of all the daughters, or something sick like that.

I hope I'm wrong though and they just let laughed into obscurity.

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30. Comment #29622 by foxfire on April 3, 2007 at 4:07 pm

Bremas, I live in the U.S. and the Phelps bunch are for real. A couple of years ago I posted on a (now defunct) forum for a Portland, OR TV channel (KGW) and crossed verbal swords with one of them. They were in Portland at the time with their traveling "clown" show. These people are crazy and I agree with SonOfPearl's assessment about child abuse.

The story about the motorcyle club folks who shield families from the Phelps venom at soldier's funerals is also true. They call themselves the Patriot Guard Riders and here is a link to a Washington Post article from February 2006 about the club: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006021801422.html

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31. Comment #29623 by cheshirecat on April 3, 2007 at 4:20 pm

Have you heard of Jack Chick of www.chick.com

Hes been around so long that he gets into text books. I have a book called 'a history of heaven' and one of his work in it. I recomend his cartoons, they are delightfully crazy. He is a little more balanced in that he hates Catholics Muslims, homesexuals, anyone who uses non KJV bible varients etc etc...lots of stuff basically

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32. Comment #29624 by cheshirecat on April 3, 2007 at 4:25 pm

I don't know why they protest though if they don't believe in free will. If you do believe in double-predestination why would you go out and just be hateful to people.

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33. Comment #29625 by PaulJ on April 3, 2007 at 4:25 pm

I watched this programme last Sunday with mounting incredulity, and then realized it was being broadcast on April 1st. But it surely couldn't have been a hoax -- it would have been too elaborate an April Fool's joke to perpetrate. Wouldn't it?

So, not a hoax then. And therefore very sad -- to see these misguided people (and their innocent kids) expending so much mental and physical energy in such futile ranting.

But why were they so gleeful when telling everyone outside the sect that they were going to hell?

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34. Comment #29627 by cheshirecat on April 3, 2007 at 4:43 pm

The main reference they use is leviticus as well. Don't they realise it also advocates goat sacrifice and the segregation of women after childbirth. I think louis could have picked them up on scripture a bit more. I wonder if they had ever actually heard of the bit in Paul or were just obsessed by the old testament references.

Goat sacrifice is very impractical. I speak from bitter experience.

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35. Comment #29628 by ao9news on April 3, 2007 at 4:58 pm

Well, I just finished watching the whole thing. It does a good job in portraying the family as a family, and nice (except for the leaders), but dumb, dumb, people. But there are so many missed opportunities, like asking the other documentary guy, who joined while making a documentary, and who said that before he was a "genius", what drove him to convert. At least ask the question, whatever answer you get however stupid or smart tells you something about his character.

And so many other missed opportunities with the lady, and with her niece, which was always nervously laughing. I think she was hiding so much, but at least he kind of got her uncomfortably serious at the end.

Also, I was expecting some talks with family members who resigned or were cast off. There were none. What's up with that?

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36. Comment #29630 by denoir on April 3, 2007 at 5:37 pm

It's definitely not a hoax - I remember reading about this group some while ago. More information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

cheshirecat:

The main reference they use is leviticus as well. Don't they realise it also advocates goat sacrifice and the segregation of women after childbirth. I think louis could have picked them up on scripture a bit more. I wonder if they had ever actually heard of the bit in Paul or were just obsessed by the old testament references.

Goat sacrifice is very impractical. I speak from bitter experience.

Indeed. I was going to say something about cloth made of two materials, but your example is better ;)

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37. Comment #29632 by The G on April 3, 2007 at 5:41 pm

I watched the Louis Theroux documentary on the day of its broadcast on the BBC, and I am still in complete and utter shock over the deprivation these cult members show to their children. These kids are essentially setting themselves up for a life of sheer alienation. I actually felt bad for the girl who laughed as she told Theroux he was going to Hell. Relatively attractive, seemingly nice, personable, she will never experience what others consider milestones in life (first kiss, marriage, kids etc.) due to being trapped within this sadly deluded cult.

the bitter irony of it all is that when they die, far from being exhaulted to heaven as they believe, they will end up as worm chow, having completely wasted their lives making others miserable, and in doing so held up a mirror to their own misery. They are practioners of bullying. Kids who bully come from troubled backgrounds, have been victims of bullying themselves, or suffer mental illness. On the other hand, in the unlikely event of a afterlife, they themselves will burn for completely ignoring the values of the figureheads of modern religion. Having not lived to the fullest. For devoting their lives to evil and ignorance.

I would absolutely love see Dawkins and that sick pastor engage in some form of public debate purely to see Phelps get shredded. Then again he couldnt even hold debate with a documentary maker, calling him "dumb" etc. What chance would he have against Dawkins?!

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38. Comment #29633 by Noodly on April 3, 2007 at 5:44 pm

In the youtube user comments for the video linked to by Seti in Comment 21, there is one from ari89 who states "fred phelps tried to seduce me when i was part of your ministry! I escaped to australia to get away from you hypocritical freaks".

I tried to leave a reply requesting more info, but it failed to appear.

Other Comments by Noodly

39. Comment #29634 by CarolHaynes on April 3, 2007 at 5:51 pm

If I am wrong and there are heaven and hell all I can say is the hell will be a much more pleasant place if the Phelps are in heaven ....

I can just hear them telling Jesus that he "loves fags and deserves to die (again)"

The only positive thing from the program is that they are so convinced the second coming is about to happen that the kids are remaining celebate and not planning to marry - hopefully that will be the end of the poison! (Well you can live in hope)

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40. Comment #29635 by anotherclinton on April 3, 2007 at 6:01 pm

OHo yes. The Phelps's are for real. Fred himself has what people have called a "Noah Complex"--that is the coming Apocalypse will admit but a family of survivors, and Fred thinks it's his disturbing little brood. I really enjoyed the clip, especially where Phelps's granddaughter exclaims "Who's going to marry us!?" Indeed.

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41. Comment #29636 by k1mgy on April 3, 2007 at 6:12 pm

"Who would want to marry us?"

Only with humans.

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42. Comment #29637 by ksskidude on April 3, 2007 at 6:15 pm

They are definetly real. I went to KU and saw Fred Phelps on the Kansas Campus all the time. Back then it was the same nonsense as well. Creepy, and sad all at the same time. I think RD should speak publicly about it, and show how the Phelps are in their right minds. Why, because it does is does say, what the Phelps say, in the "Good Book."

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43. Comment #29639 by Joe_OD on April 3, 2007 at 6:32 pm

These people aren't extreme enough. The Bible clearly says to kill those who, for example, tempt you with other gods, as well as a whole list of others. Unless they are secretly killing people, then they are ignoring biblical teachings as well, and are going to hell with the rest of us apostates.

The only people who truly understand and follow their Abrahamic religion's teachings are terrorists.

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44. Comment #29640 by cheshirecat on April 3, 2007 at 6:43 pm

Yes but then you could say Hitler was the only one who really understood Darwinism because he took it to the logical conclusion and to breed himself a master race of the biggest and blondest.

Remember that the teachings of Jesus Christ are usually of the pacifist left wing turn the other cheek variety.

Being wrong and being bad are two plain different things. Religion is always wrong it is not always bad.

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45. Comment #29641 by Phil on April 3, 2007 at 6:44 pm

Here's their site:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

Believe it or not, it actually contains useful information. When any Christian tries to tell you that the god of the bible loves everyone, direct them to this section of their site:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/writings/20060331_god-loves-everyone-lie.pdf
This .pdf has a fantastic list chronicling all the people the bible's god killed and a list of verses showing god's contempt for the majority of mankind.
Not surprisingly, that's about all it's good for - well other than ridicule.

(edited for spelling and style changes)




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46. Comment #29642 by Joe_OD on April 3, 2007 at 6:56 pm

If Hitler really understood evolution then he would have realized that breeding a master race would take longer than his thousand year reich would take to play out. Hitler didn't understand evolution, he understood social Darwinism, a bastardization of the ideas put forth by Darwin, and pseudo-scientific Nazi eugenics.

Jesus does teach much morality that is sound, but he also declares that Old Testament law must be upheld, which means he sanctions what these people are doing. More so, if O.T. law must be upheld, you must kill if you want to follow the Bible and get into heaven, there is no way around that.

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47. Comment #29643 by hightrekker on April 3, 2007 at 6:57 pm

Just more Cabbages for Christ------
The poor sheep are so meme infested, they are beyond help.
Just faithful followers of a psychopathic Bronze Age Fiction text--

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48. Comment #29645 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 7:18 pm

Just finished the whole thing. It really is sad.
If anyone goes to school with or works with that one young woman, I would recommend befriending her as she really seemed on the verge of breaking loose.

All those giggles and smiles point to a lot of really darker things going on there. And, as someone already pointed out, the possibility of it all ending badly is real.

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49. Comment #29646 by John the Atheist on April 3, 2007 at 7:28 pm

The problem with Baptists is that they don't hold them under long enough.

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50. Comment #29649 by Bremas on April 3, 2007 at 7:41 pm

One more comment
ao9news hit upon missed opportunities. Thinking back about it when the one 21 year old woman said in the car (giggling)"Who would marry us/me". It was almost a scream for "someone outside my group, please tell me I'm normal".

(edited for grammer)(edited for grammar) :-)

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