Medicine without Evolution Make Sense?
2. Comment #32683 by Zappi on April 18, 2007 at 2:40 am
Although Paul O'Higgins thought a comparison of the brachial plexus to the pentadactyl limb was helpful, not all his students agreed—complaints were lodged that he was forcing evolution on them. That lack of support was also reflected in the participation of only three medical students at the York meeting (albeit enthusiastic ones), despite being widely publicized. It is not clear whether this is because medical students are more overburdened than most or because of a more deep-rooted resistance to the subject, reflecting wider political and religious prejudice against evolution.
3. Comment #32695 by jeepyjay on April 18, 2007 at 3:37 am
Zappi asks: "Is there really a significant resistance to the subject among medical students?"4. Comment #32707 by Deimos on April 18, 2007 at 4:17 am
***Edit by OBC reason; inappropriate comments***5. Comment #32709 by Yorker on April 18, 2007 at 4:19 am
"Crudely put, does a mechanic need to understand the origins, history, and technological advances that have gone into the modern motor vehicle in order to fix it?"6. Comment #32710 by Freelance Scientist on April 18, 2007 at 4:29 am
Now I'm worried, must we interview surgeons about to operate upon us to verify they won't prematurely give up and leave it in "God's hands"? Surely the way forward is to tell medical students that knowledge and understanding of evolution will be expected of those wishing to be doctors.
7. Comment #32714 by NJS on April 18, 2007 at 4:55 am
Since I started reading sites like this and reading debates I'm alarmed by how many people in the US especially can study courses at University which are critically affected by nonsensical theist dogma. I've read posts from creationists who are studying Biology who seem to suggest no conflict which I think is absurd but this slant of medical students worries me even more.8. Comment #32722 by Yorker on April 18, 2007 at 5:18 am
7. Comment #32714 by NJS9. Comment #32723 by ScMay on April 18, 2007 at 5:20 am
2. Comment #32683 by ZappiIs there really a significant resistance to the subject among medical students?While I can't speak for the US in Australia I would say no. So far in my bachelor of Medicine/Surgery (Medicine is primarily taught as an undergrad in Australia) I have heard little to no opposition to evolution despite many lectures being littered with comments about it from population genetics, immunology, resistances, anatomy, embryology etc. That said there is never any examination of our knowledge about evolution so maybe they just ignore it and stay quiet. I should also mention that (at least at Monash University in Melbourne) if you have not yet studied biology as a subject in highschool (which has a large and unavoidable evolution content)when you enter the course you must do a 'crash course' at the start of the year.
Although Paul O'Higgins thought a comparison of the brachial plexus to the pentadactyl limb was helpful, not all his students agreed—complaints were lodged that he was forcing evolution on them. That lack of support was also reflected in the participation of only three medical students at the York meeting (albeit enthusiastic ones), despite being widely publicized. It is not clear whether this is because medical students are more overburdened than most or because of a more deep-rooted resistance to the subject, reflecting wider political and religious prejudice against evolution.The complaints I would be surprised about if they occurred at my university if they were simply opposed to evolution, I am not however surprised with the lack of support. Without knowing much about what was actually offered I would hazard a guess that students saw it as irrelevant, we have enough to learn as it is so unless it has some clinical relevance or its going to be on the exam it's just going to be seen as going unnecessarily deep into academics for the sake of it. Most of us have a good enough understanding of evolution to function, anything more is a burden unless you have a special interest (which I might have but also might rather just take the free time).
10. Comment #32745 by I'mNotAlone on April 18, 2007 at 6:54 am
Given how difficult it can be to see a doctor in the UK nowadays (cant book in advance, can only book on the day - leading to the phone lines being jammed from the moment the surgery opens)I'm concerned that the quality of my diagnosis could be effected by the doctor's religious belief! Imagine if my records show that I am an infi....sorry, aetheist!11. Comment #32765 by ceebuler on April 18, 2007 at 7:59 am
As a medical student in Toronto, I can attest that most medical students here passively "believe in" evolution, but very few have learned much about it and even fewer think it is relevant to our education. I was dumbfounded when I discovered that a close friend of mine in the class is an Orthodox Christian who believes the literal truth of the bible, including the age of the earth, etc. How could he believe this and still be a competent doctor?12. Comment #32779 by pugowner on April 18, 2007 at 8:46 am
I find it disingenuous to use the example of bacteria developing antibiotic resistance in arguments about evolution. Opponents have no difficulty with change based on mutation and natural selection when it comes to evolution within a species - be it bacteria, plants or dogs.13. Comment #32785 by Azven on April 18, 2007 at 8:52 am
14. Comment #32792 by ghostbuster on April 18, 2007 at 9:00 am
Of course knowing evolution is important to medicine. Diseases evolve after all and knowing the hows and whys is critically important to genetic-based treatments.15. Comment #32838 by MarkSmith on April 18, 2007 at 12:23 pm
16. Comment #32848 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:16 pm
17. Comment #32849 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:17 pm
18. Comment #32850 by ghostbuster on April 18, 2007 at 1:18 pm
MarkSmith: Vitamin supplements really are not needed except in a few cases--(ie) Vitamin D in northern climates. Most of what one needs is in food. If you follow the glycemic index foods, do some moderate activity like walking for 30 minutes a day, insulin levels are regulated and you don't become a diabetic. Taking supplements just buys into the healthfood crackpot industry and you will be making them as rich as your doctor. additionally, some of the herbal rememdies are manufactured by big pharma as well, only now they do not have to follow any regulations about content and/or saftey and/or effectiveness. Just eat good food and wash it whether it's organic or not.19. Comment #32851 by Logicel on April 18, 2007 at 1:23 pm
20. Comment #32865 by jeepyjay on April 18, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Deimos wrote: "I propose a ban on Jews, Christians and Muslims from studying Medicine."21. Comment #32937 by ratio on April 18, 2007 at 7:00 pm
Comment #32779 by pugowner on April 18, 2007 at 8:46 am22. Comment #32949 by maton100 on April 18, 2007 at 7:37 pm
23. Comment #32957 by philos on April 18, 2007 at 8:31 pm
24. Comment #33057 by chamber on April 19, 2007 at 4:39 am
A Medicine analogy25. Comment #33063 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 4:46 am
Chamber,26. Comment #33075 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 5:18 am
Chamber you are using circular reasoning. The key for your understanding is that the processes involved are independent of the pharmacist. The instance in which the "ingredients" are in place does not require a pharamacist.27. Comment #33083 by tom70 on April 19, 2007 at 5:46 am
I've not read all the comments on here but some of them seem to bang on a lot about medicine turning back to witch doctors etc etc.28. Comment #33104 by ghostbuster on April 19, 2007 at 7:45 am
Logicel:29. Comment #33508 by devolved on April 20, 2007 at 12:53 pm
There's no question that antibiotics are one of the greatest medical discoveries ever made. They have saved lives beyond number.30. Comment #33809 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 1:14 am
26. Comment #33075 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 5:18 am31. Comment #33810 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 1:18 am
25. Comment #33063 by Deimos on April 19, 2007 at 4:46 am32. Comment #33826 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:50 am
139. Comment #33396 by Stewart on April 20, 2007 at 2:39 am33. Comment #33827 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:52 am
140. Comment #33620 by John Phillips on April 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm34. Comment #33828 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 3:53 am
140. Comment #33620 by John Phillips on April 20, 2007 at 6:14 pm35. Comment #33830 by chamber on April 22, 2007 at 4:07 am
141. Comment #33697 by Quetzalcoatl on April 21, 2007 at 7:10 am36. Comment #33831 by scottishgeologist on April 22, 2007 at 4:09 am
37. Comment #33845 by devolved on April 22, 2007 at 6:15 am
scottishgeologist asks38. Comment #33847 by d4m14n on April 22, 2007 at 6:36 am
Re: #3384539. Comment #33853 by devolved on April 22, 2007 at 8:22 am
Re #3384540. Comment #33866 by ghostbuster on April 22, 2007 at 10:06 am
I used to think that genetic science would clean up all the stupid creationist theories; however, to quote Susan Blackmore:41. Comment #34367 by chamber on April 23, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Illigocal and circular arguments goes along with the arguments that insists on something illogical. I just quote what I wrote for Mr O'reilly interview wipe-out. Though - to be fair - O'reilly could have let Mr Dawkins speak more, the result will be no difference. Because you arguing against logic and there is no way that you will win the argument.
1. Comment #32677 by Nails on April 18, 2007 at 2:02 am
And it is about time this was addressed, drug companies are now looking at how genetic differences effect the outcome of treatment.
Other Comments by Nails