How multiculturalism is betraying women
It would be easy to congratulate ourselves on our tolerance of the fanatically intolerant2. Comment #36828 by mr harry on May 2, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Why is a judge looking to the Koran for guidance in making this decision? Why is she not looking to the laws of this liberal democracy instead?3. Comment #36830 by ab_initio on May 2, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Im shocked at how absurd this is. Has anyone read about this elsewhere? Whilst it is very unlikely the author is over-exaggerating or fabricating this stuff, I'm finding it too ridiculous to believe. :|4. Comment #36831 by posiedon on May 2, 2007 at 1:21 pm
mr harry
Why is a judge looking to the Koran for guidance in making this decision? Why is she not looking to the laws of this liberal democracy instead?
5. Comment #36833 by Richard Dawkins on May 2, 2007 at 1:25 pm
6. Comment #36836 by Glacian on May 2, 2007 at 1:28 pm
7. Comment #36838 by uzi on May 2, 2007 at 1:31 pm
I'm tempted to think the judge is discriminating against these women not for being women, but for being one of "them" -- a muslim.8. Comment #36840 by stereoroid on May 2, 2007 at 1:35 pm
9. Comment #36842 by cassdenata on May 2, 2007 at 1:38 pm
This is the second time that I have seen an article on this matter. Each time I think that the judge is making a statement against multi-culturalism and the brutality of the islamic religion in order to generate a real discussion on these issues. His statements are so absurd, it can't be real...can they?10. Comment #36846 by Jonathan Dore on May 2, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Yes, there was an article about this case on 22 March (http://richarddawkins.net/article,776,Germany-Cites-Koran-in-Rejecting-Divorce,NYTimescom-Mark-Landler). Following protests, the judge was recused from the case (see www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,druck-473017,00.html).11. Comment #36847 by The author on May 2, 2007 at 1:51 pm
12. Comment #36848 by poppythinks on May 2, 2007 at 1:53 pm
13. Comment #36852 by MartinSGill on May 2, 2007 at 2:03 pm
14. Comment #36854 by MartinSGill on May 2, 2007 at 2:07 pm
15. Comment #36879 by Bonzai on May 2, 2007 at 4:02 pm
16. Comment #36880 by steve99 on May 2, 2007 at 4:05 pm
17. Comment #36881 by Bookman on May 2, 2007 at 4:07 pm
"She is horrified by the moves in Canada to introduce shariah courts to enforce family law for Muslims."18. Comment #36882 by kaiserkriss on May 2, 2007 at 4:07 pm
19. Comment #36883 by Ivan The Not So Bad on May 2, 2007 at 4:14 pm
20. Comment #36897 by Linda on May 2, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Domestic violence is an insidious disease that is particularly odious when perpetrated by those who claim religious justification for abuse.The fact that governments continue to protect and sanctify superstition and its peddlers is shameful.21. Comment #36899 by Richard H on May 2, 2007 at 5:32 pm
I supposed this would be a great time to HIGHLY recommend Ayaan Hirsi Ali's new book "Infidel". I just finished it the other night and was amazed at her breadth of experience, her thoughtful prose, and, most of all, her modest tone even while making the sort of statements she is hated for.22. Comment #36903 by Linda on May 2, 2007 at 5:40 pm
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." Sura 4:3423. Comment #36905 by Harlon57 on May 2, 2007 at 5:48 pm
24. Comment #36915 by Helios G2V on May 2, 2007 at 7:13 pm
25. Comment #36919 by MelM on May 2, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Why doesn't the German gov put a stop to this?26. Comment #36924 by Yorker on May 2, 2007 at 8:17 pm
The answer to this stupidity is simple enough. If the dictates of any "culture" clash with the law of the land, then the law must take precedence. Adherents to outdated cultures must be made to realise that barbarism has no place in modern society. It needs to be said again and again, if you can't abide by a country's laws, leave; persons offending more than once should be deported, at their own cost of course.27. Comment #36925 by Sapare Aude on May 2, 2007 at 8:19 pm
I thought Europe was above this. After Christians are not permitted to beat their wives event though they could cite the bible and say its their culture.28. Comment #36928 by Helios G2V on May 2, 2007 at 8:32 pm
29. Comment #36935 by Yorker on May 2, 2007 at 8:55 pm
28. Comment #36928 by Helios G2V30. Comment #36938 by MelM on May 2, 2007 at 9:10 pm
How about serial jail time for serial wife bashers?31. Comment #36941 by BaronOchs on May 2, 2007 at 9:21 pm
32. Comment #36950 by TedWak on May 2, 2007 at 10:33 pm
The judge's rationale is absurd and assinine, but the writer's view that there is no reconciling "multiculturalism" and human rights is also wrong.33. Comment #36952 by fatcitymax on May 2, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Nishal should have just killed her husband. Any woman who puts up with being beaten by her husband deserves to be beaten.34. Comment #36958 by Shuggy on May 2, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Multiculturalism is bunk; wrong is wrong, crime is crime;
35. Comment #36961 by Veronique on May 3, 2007 at 12:14 am
36. Comment #36968 by Philip1978 on May 3, 2007 at 1:12 am
37. Comment #36979 by NJS on May 3, 2007 at 2:20 am
I've asked this question a few times:38. Comment #36983 by sppach on May 3, 2007 at 3:03 am
ANYBODY WITH ANY REASONABLE SENSE OF DECENCY WILL BE OUTRAGED AT THIS, AS I WAS READING IT I WAS GETTING ANGRIER AND ANGRIER AND I HOPE THAT ONE DAY ALL THOSE IN POWER WILL USE COMMON SENSE AND NOT PANDER TO FUCKING P.C39. Comment #36987 by Glacian on May 3, 2007 at 4:03 am
40. Comment #36988 by Russell Blackford on May 3, 2007 at 4:06 am
Apart from the ridiculous solicitude that we are all expected to show to religious belief, one of the HUGE problems in public discussion is the widespread (and perfectly rational) fear of being condemned as a racist if you are critical of other cultures, or aspects of them. And of course, it's true that there can sometimes be an element of racism hiding behind certain opportunistic attacks on the practices of a despised group. I, for one, feel inhibited about what I say in many situations, as I have no wish to be seen in the same light, or even branded as a racist.41. Comment #36993 by FJM on May 3, 2007 at 4:48 am
Comment #36827 by AnatheistinNigeria on May 2, 2007 at 1:10 pm
Are there any (German) lawyers on this blog that may be able to help?
42. Comment #36996 by Biblebeltheretic on May 3, 2007 at 4:50 am
Comment #36988 by Russell Blackford43. Comment #37000 by Logicel on May 3, 2007 at 5:19 am
44. Comment #37004 by Russell Blackford on May 3, 2007 at 5:30 am
Biblebeltheretic: That's okay, you're quite entitled to disagree with me. Maybe I'm wrong, and will learn something. :)45. Comment #37009 by I'mNotAlone on May 3, 2007 at 6:08 am
Reading Veronique's posting (Comment35) made me think about where the boundaries are for this.46. Comment #37011 by scot on May 3, 2007 at 6:21 am
Comment 39:47. Comment #37013 by Biblebeltheretic on May 3, 2007 at 6:29 am
Comment #37004 by Russell Blackford48. Comment #37025 by Flagellant on May 3, 2007 at 7:17 am
[Quote from Koran Sura 4.34. See 22. Comment #36903 by Linda.] Can we imagine seeing men on the march in defence of their right to beat their wives? And if we do see it, then what? Would that win hearts and minds? The martyrs of this revolution would be sustained by two obvious truths: the binding authority of scripture, all over the world, is very seriously questioned; and women, by definition, are not a minority. They would know, too, that their struggle is a heroic assault on the weight of the past - the alpweight of 14 centuries…Perhaps Amis is right and this is the way in which Islam can be undermined here. The ridiculous banner seen at a UK demonstration saying words to the effect of "Behead those who insult Islam" won no friends. Come on girls and women: get struggling.
All religions are violent; and all ideologies are violent…
49. Comment #37031 by Philip1978 on May 3, 2007 at 7:53 am
50. Comment #37034 by NJS on May 3, 2007 at 8:06 am
The BBC had a couple of HYS debates on the veil last year. There were a few posts from Muslim women insisting that they wore whichever garment of oppression it was "of their own free will" as they weren't forced. Leaving aside the fact that I'm sure there are many who are forced it struck me that this "willingness" to be oppressed is part of the problem.
1. Comment #36827 by AnatheistinNigeria on May 2, 2007 at 1:10 pm
This is so shameful for German/European law.I am especially disappointed that such verdicts go unchallanged. These cases should appealed to higher and higher courts, if necessary until it reaches the European Court. I cannot image that these insane verdicts would not be struck down as being against European Laws related to the right for equal treatment for all people.
Are there any (German) lawyers on this blog that may be able to help?
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