Comment 21 by Peter Grant

At least he admits he was wrong, I can respect that.

I would imagine that few here would reject that opinion.

But even so the damage he has done.....and what will continue to be done under his name by folk that have no understanding of either integrity or indeed honesty let alone psychiatry or even basic humanity will be his lasting legacy...I have little sympathy...he really should have known and acted much better then his presumably rampant ego would allow!

Far to little ...Far to late...certainly for many victims of this utter trash...and there will be more!

No matter how eminent in a field...no matter the mass and volume of arguably excellent solid work and study contributing to that field...he was warned and told it was a study with a dubious reality content.

When it went tits up his ego retreated to positions that only a skilled contortionist should occupy...he knew by then it was a flawed study...he said nothing and allowed that bogus nonsense to be used and abused by the brain dead religious political morons that have inflicted great and permanent mental damage in many victims and Spitzer said and did nothing. He knew it was being used by folk that should have never been allowed to be any where near vulnerable and young people with real social and personal issues...his actions are on a par with the morality guilt that Degussa or Siemens were and are presently struggling with after WW2.

And the damage is now a sad and deadly contagion within certain conservative/religious organizations and there is not a retraction worded framed or presented in the world that will deter them from displaying the lie or removing that study from their battle banners!

Shame on Spitzer...let him take that to his grave...harsh ? maybe... fair?...undoubtedly.

Comment 14 by veggiemanuk

I asked her who gets to go to heaven, her answer was a simple 'Those who believe' and she really did mean ANYONE. I questioned her on this about people who commit terrible crimes and she said that so long as they BELIEVE, they too will go to heaven. 'The Kindest people in the world can rot in hell if they dont believe'

I have come across similar both in the real world and cyber-space and the depression I feel is not conducive to 'interfaith' dialogue in the slightest. it is one reason I get very testy with apologists and accommodationists.

This mind set...if it can be called that...I think is more a symptom of the piss poor education in matter theological by the clerics. What they deliver to the masses is a vague rambling incoherent morass of subjective and sensational gobbly gook masquerading as tenets of the religion.

So poor are these incomplete and bumbling anecdotes and homilies played by the clerics that the audience is left to piece together the discordant picture the best way they can.

Hence good folk go to hell if they do not believe and bad folk do cos they repent and believe...

It is a device that is supposed to support other creaky parts of their house of cards. In trying to emphasize that forgiveness is a major stick and carrot and that non-believers are destined for hell they end up getting the audience minds tangled up if not sorely and morally confused as to who what or why some folks go North and some South! It is just piss poor vague teaching...and that is the source of this balderdash for sure. Seminary...is not a particularly intellectual pursuit...they prove it over and over again!

The idea seems to be the less the congregation is informed fully and accurately about these matters the better...otherwise no one knows where it might end! Give them no reason to start thinking about it except from the POV of fear and horror... Best to keep the fairy story intact...even if it is a little confused in the delivery.

It seems it is a common and prevalent interpretation, maybe because the last thing the clerical jockies want is for analytical thought to play any part in the construction of the biblical image in the minds of their sheeple. They prefer by far rampant juvenile/childish manipulations and assumptions of the facts to serious theology any day.

I expect that there might be one or two examples where the theology is laid out more or less pertaining to the story line and given some tweaks appearing to deliver a morality in tune with xian teaching...but the mere fact these folk exist with such a stunted and analytical by-pass comes with a chilling thought, they are not in the minority.

In fact it kindda suggests that it is a common and widespread failing by the church and by the public educational system in how to analytically think...cos sure as the sun comes up they will never receive that important mental tool from the religion they are slaved to.

And explains what the religions are doing sniffing at the crack in secular armour that allows religious faith based initiatives into public educational situation. They have intent to deliver twisted and incoherent trash as the trooooooof!!!

Actually they care less about the theology their victims live and breath by and more by the numbers of infected corpses they can claim follow their religion. It is education...but not as we know it!

How sad is that...?

Comment 11 by Saganic Rites

One thing I've always wondered about the whole apocolypse / rapture thing

Only one? ;-)

I think the bottom line is that ...it has not really been thought through at all!

I mean what is the point of dossing around on some cloud plucking a harp and singing the praises to jeebus for eternity...is that it...nothing else...fucking pointless...what deity has such a twisted egotistically warped character that requires a cacophony of the dead singing his praises for ever 'n' ever?...apart from the obvious flaw that not every zombie has a singing voice ...half of them are illiterate and most of them were asleep during church services in their previous incarnation anyway?

Where are the lyrics?...on some heavenly appointed iPad with multi terminal access with Steve Jobs conducting the data flow?... Yeah I know Steve was one of the good guys and an Atheist but pragmatically they would probably decide to second the dude cos they got no one else capable of plugging a mouse in let alone running a system.

Rubbing wing tips with the likes of Herr Hitler...cos he never got ex-communicated therefore was never a candidate for the hot house...and Mother Theresa that will probably demand money with menaces! And think of them tele-evangelists and priests that have ascended to argue the toss at the pearly gates?

Seems they are a little superfluous to requirements methinks! Their administrations no longer appropriate!

The whole thing is just wishful childish pathetic escapism from the fear of real mortality...and cowardice from rationality.

Yes the hysteria from the RCC over a variety of issues seems to be increasing in volume and petulance. There are markers that their fear is also manifest elsewhere...

the real catholic way

They are losing the debate partly because their own supporters do not necessarily agree with them and the world has rightly moved on, the 15th century might have been an halcyon moment in RC history...but pining for it will not bring the good times back.

Seems that both major xian delusions are ripe for schism, a sign that xian religion and its formidable power base are crumbling and imploding...their grip is slipping and they are both wailing and gnashing the dentures.... Maureen Dowd sums it up ...

Absolute intolerance is always a sign of uncertainty and panic. Why do you have to hunt down everyone unless you’re weak? The church doesn’t seem to care if its members’ beliefs are based on faith or fear, conviction or coercion. But what is the quality of a belief that exists simply because it’s enforced?

The times they are a changin'....