1. Interview with Dan Dennett

Comment #167799 by JemyM on April 24, 2008 at 10:39 am

Daniel Dennett is my greatest hero. Sorry Richard.

2. Investigating Atheism

Comment #166793 by JemyM on April 23, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Weird site.

3. If God Is Dead, Who Gets His House?

Comment #165728 by JemyM on April 22, 2008 at 6:47 am

Sorry, the English in this post is terrible. It's too hot.


mmmurray, I recognize the religious institutions as social institutions for which they are currently no obvious alternative. When I say "goverment run" I mean that a such social institution should have the kind of benefits which religious institutions currently have. It's a theory though, and I cannoy support it with evidence.

When it comes to Malcolm X, I have not studied him in detail. I know only that he was inspired by Mahatma Gandhi at one point in his life.



AllanW, I am messing around with a topic that is beyond my level of education. My theory is based on social psychology and societybuilding. It's a suggestion of something to explore, just like suggested Daniel Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell". This means that I do not have all answers.

'They have stood for a religious apartheid, segregation and indoctrination of children.'

Some religions are tribes. There is no natural "be kind to strangers" in any of them, instead they are deeply rooted in "if you are not with me you are against me" thinking. The exception might be hinduism, see below. This is especially obvious in Christianity and Islam. There will never be a fusion between Christianity and Islam. Even if their members are humans, their religions stop them from seeing they are members of the same species.

This draws imaginary lines in the dirt, dividing mankind into team red or blue, black and white. This is a religious apartheid.

And they pass on this tribalism to their children so that the conflict will go on. We have better morals, they have no morals etc.

'Which is why HUMANITY needs to be the center of a such institution.'

Yes, humanity. Humans have biological features that makes them all the same, the same emotions, feelings etc. Understanding humanity is important, understanding ancient scripture is not.

The core of hinduism which is inspired Mahatma Gandhi, is that every life is part of a whole entity, therefore, killing someone is like killing yourself. He evoked the practice of non-violent demonstration to get his ideas across. He recognized that a continued retaliation "eye for an eye" will never work, thus he said "an eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind". Members of Islam and Christianity are both humans with the same feelings, but the religions makes them not see this.

'Do not welcome outcasts. Piling money on people do not cure segregation.'

'Staying OPEN instead of EXCLUSIVE is the cure for segregation.'

Acting as a bridge that reduces segregation through tying people together. A community where noone is a stranger. This is the strength of religions, but the current ones exclude nonmembers.

I'm sorry but I don't think this is true. Human society has developed over hundreds of thousands of years from our common ancestor with other primates; religions, in this timescale, are a recent invention. How did our distant ancestors cohere without religion? They evidently did and I'm not anthropologist enough to detail it for you here but religion was not it.

If anything is true for our history, it's growing societies together. The first hunter/gatherer communities were in almost nonstop wars with eachother. In the original civilizations, the religions were basicly the first attempt of political philosophy and social science. Broken. Primitive. But that's what they were about. Greece wouldnt have worked if it was not for the religion that made them consider themselves a people. Christianity started to tie Europe together, just as Islam tied middleeast and Africa together, teaching the same language etc. Sure, brute barbarism and considering themselves superior and the rest as animals to be slain was a core feature in even those religions. Post 1800 something happened though. Secular systems, the political ideologies were added. These replaced the religions in many ways. So did science.

I'm sorry but I personally need a lot more evidence and information before I'll accept even one of those assertions. They are not self-evident; they do not conform to some data that I have from my own society. And maybe this is the problem here (I hope I'm not guilty of projection or being too mean); Jemym you seem to be drawing conclusions from your own experience and viewpoints that do not bear wider application. It seems to me you have the kernel of an idea but need to spend a great deal of time developing and most importantly testing your views and data against reality before being confident enough to present it in more detail. Should this be possible I for one would welcome this more robust viewpoint as it addresses the important topic of our future.

I cannot provide evidence for those points since they are based on opinion, not science. My theory is that churches currently represent a social institution with some features that not yet been transferred to other institutions. Planning for a replacement might then be neccessary. This is, however, a theory.

4. If God Is Dead, Who Gets His House?

Comment #165726 by JemyM on April 22, 2008 at 6:34 am

mmmurray, I recognize the religious institutions as social institutions for which they are currently no obvious alternative. When I say "goverment run" I mean that a such social institution should have the kind of benefits which religious institutions currently have. It's a theory though, and I cannoy support it with evidence.

When it comes to Malcolm X, I have not studied him in detail. I know only that he was inspired by Mahatma Gandhi at one point in his life.

5. If God Is Dead, Who Gets His House?

Comment #165622 by JemyM on April 21, 2008 at 11:34 pm

mmurray, you attacked every point I made without even consider what I said. That's NOT reason!

It only keeps society together if everybody has the same religion. If not it is a very nasty way of keeping people at each other's throats. In any case the fact that something was popular since long ago is not a good reason to continue with it. Consider: infanticide, cannibilism, oppression of women, slavery, trepanning ...

Which is why HUMANITY needs to be the center of a such institution.

1. There are secular organisations eg Smith Family in Australia. But really this should be a government job.

Which means that there's currently no widely recognized secular alternative.

2. Universal health care and welfare.

Do not welcome outcasts. Piling money on people do not cure segregation.

3. What like the Catholic Churches homophobic approach to AIDS/HIV ?

No, I said drugs and poverty, not sex.

4. Like in Northern Ireland I guess ?

It should be obvious to you that all the current religions failed when the world grew smaller. Humanity, not a specific faith/esoteric knowledge/doctrine etc needs to be the center of a such institution. Staying OPEN instead of EXCLUSIVE is the cure for segregation.

5. http://www.civilcelebrants.com.au

That's a start. Now the rest of the world?

6. Professional trained councillors. Better than having to listen to tortured christian discussions about why God loves us but also lets shit happen. 7. See 6.

Many countries still summons a priests instead of secular councillors, even highly secular Sweden. There's no obvious alternative to this at the moment.

8. Like the Pope whose solution to AIDS/HIV and human overpopulation is that we all stop having sex. His clergyman have amply demonstrated what happens
when you thwart basic human drives like that. I'll swap him for Steve Zara or MPhil anyday.

Mahatma Gandhi, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King showed the power of fighting your fears for a non-violent solutions to oppression. Fighting ones fear for the unknown is the most important self-control there is, and frankly, even liberal countries needs more of that.

The christian fight against sex is irrational since it's not based on reason.
Consider instead knowledge about drives that are really dangerous: Hate. Drug-abuse. Xenophobia. Tribalism. Knowledge instead of suppression is the key word here. Knowledge have a greater chance to work than suppressing.

And the value of having compassion and promoting the value of helping people is not a bad thing.

Most of us in Europe, UK, Australia, Canada etc have already abandoned church. Come on in the waters fine.

I disagree. I see a society divided with growing segregation and mistrust. I see a world where isolation and ignorance is growing and more and more live alone and gets forgotten.

6. If God Is Dead, Who Gets His House?

Comment #165614 by JemyM on April 21, 2008 at 9:35 pm

First, unrelated, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeSFNhnTvWw :D

Now, I say, this is serious. Do not laugh at this. I do disagree that "atheism" is a label that is needed, but a secular church will eventually be necessary.

People here have left church because it preaches bad morals, discrimination of women and homosexuals, irrationality, believing things blindly without evidence, attitudes against science and knowledge. They have stood for a religious apartheid, segregation and indoctrination of children. They hold up an open conflict about whom's mythology is best. This have lead many to lost "faith" in church itself and many answer this by going their own way.

After reading Nietzsche's "God is Dead" and Daniel Dennett's "Breaking the Spell" I am now convinced that simply taking down church without looking what's inside is bad for society as a whole.

You see, since the beginning of humanity, religion fulfilled the important role to keep society together. This is a fact that anyone who spent some time with history and social sciences must admit.

Officially the religious institutions stands for:
1. Gathering and distribution of welfare to the needy
2. Taking care of the sick and the weak and welcome the outcasts
3. Fighting society problems like drugs and poverty
4. A community that keeps people together and fights segregation
5. Recognizing the stages of life (birth, confirmation, marriage, funeral)
6. Dealing with pain and sorrow after tragic events
7. A focus on people's feelings in an easy to understand language
8. A spokesperson for morals with focus on compassion, self-control, the value of helping others etc.

Imagine everyone abandoned church tomorrow!
1. Try to come up with current secular alternatives that covers all points above. Your alternatives must be accessible, well known and local so that even the most clueless knows about them (they are the ones who need it the most).
2. It would be in the interest of a state to support a such alternative (consider things like secular graveyards etc).
3. A secular moral teaching is necessary to work for glueing society together, prevent segregation and create social misery.

7. Sexpelled: No Intercourse Allowed

Comment #163045 by JemyM on April 17, 2008 at 10:08 pm

Humor :D

8. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #157681 by JemyM on April 9, 2008 at 12:11 pm

The theory that Nietzsche put forth in "God is Dead" is quite interesting. Dawkins made fun of the comment but I have to take Dennets approach. The theory is that parts of who we are have been moved into religion as a social institution. These components of humans natural behavior will probably not cease with ending church, instead, much of the social work that church previously did is now extinct since Christianity is starting to go extinct. Planning for a secular alternative might not be a bad idea. Not everyone gets to be a biology professor, but they still want something to do (to feel a purpose). When they are isolated they stay isolated. A social institution would be a better option for them than other things society have to offer (drugs, crime etc). It can also be used to end segregation, something religion once did (even if it's now cause of the opposite).

A such institution could do pretty much what a current church do, just without the mythology.

9. Anti-evolution bill clears another hurdle

Comment #157362 by JemyM on April 9, 2008 at 1:50 am

I cannot take southamericans seriously anymore. It seems the frequency of people compatible with the developed civilization down there are close to or equal to the middle east.

10. The Atheist Next Door

Comment #156889 by JemyM on April 8, 2008 at 11:16 am

Where do I place my trust and my hope.

I place my trust and my hope in humanity and the human spirit. I can see good people in all cultures, all nations, all religions, even the ones weighted down by the bad.

11. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154448 by JemyM on April 3, 2008 at 9:30 am

Kern was cheered Wednesday when she told the crowd at the state Capitol that their support affirmed the rights of conservative Christians "who want to stand up for the truth of God's word."

She have all the neonazis in the world on her side.

12. Iowa county board gives initial OK for ghost hunters to investigate asylum

Comment #151600 by JemyM on March 29, 2008 at 3:37 am

Right on!
Where I come from, they call that "science"!

No, the thrill with a mystery is to not know.
Science ruins the mystery by spoiling the ending.

13. 'We Make Our Own Heaven'

Comment #151552 by JemyM on March 29, 2008 at 1:04 am

In Sweden the discussion on what to do with our old churches is starting to become a topic. Some of them have already been rebuilt into museums, but there's also a suggestion to create "Rooms for Creation", rooms that are pretty much created like holy places but for all religions, including the non-religious.

I think there's a point with religion. The problem is just the old books.
I personally feel the need for a religion that puts humanity in center and believes in the human spirit. One that cares for the planet.

14. Iowa county board gives initial OK for ghost hunters to investigate asylum

Comment #151549 by JemyM on March 29, 2008 at 12:58 am

I do not have a problem with this compared to organized religion. People have a deeply rooted interest in mysteries and often enjoy them even if they know they are false. I prefer that they spend their energy on this instead of totalitarian scripture that orders death for all sorts of weird reasons.

15. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #149940 by JemyM on March 26, 2008 at 10:47 am

Exclusivism, the most devastating doctrine known to man.

16. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #149732 by JemyM on March 26, 2008 at 7:34 am

Jail for murder maybe.

17. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #149723 by JemyM on March 26, 2008 at 7:24 am

Evil might be subjective, but from my point of view this is evil.

18. The science of religion: Where angels no longer fear to tread

Comment #148635 by JemyM on March 23, 2008 at 1:05 pm

Cognitive psychology and sociology explains perfectly well how religions work.

19. The death-of-god debate

Comment #148445 by JemyM on March 23, 2008 at 5:26 am

I do not know anyone who associate Easter with Christianity. Most of us associate it with eating candy and painting eggs. Ofcourse... Im Swedish.

20. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #147140 by JemyM on March 19, 2008 at 11:19 pm

JemyM,
In the Book of Matthew Jesus said he had come to reaffirm the law of the Old Testament.
So indeed hatred of homosexuals is an inalienable tenet of Christianity.
One more reason not to like Pathfinder.

No sane Christian follow Leviticus anymore, any Christian who cherry pick that book should be told that it contains rules like killing couples if he see her during her period as well as killing children etc. Either Leviticus apply, and then Christians are very dangerous both to others and themselves, or it does not apply, and then the lines about homosexuality do not work either.

21. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146616 by JemyM on March 19, 2008 at 8:19 am

Pathfinder
Homosexuality - PRACTISING homosexuality, is a sin, as you no doubt know from your Leviticus. As a Christian I take a love-the-sinner-hate the sin view and have no problem with gays, any more than I do with lepers.

You are no Christian. Christians do not follow Leviticus. You are a false prophet who breaks the 2nd and the 8th commandment.

22. Religion 'linked to happy life'

Comment #146000 by JemyM on March 18, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Christianity made me really unhappy. The idea of sin and Gods punishment made me live a life in almost constant depression because I blamed myself for pretty much everything that happened in my life (believing that my sexuality thanks to puberty had a strong impact on bad things going on in my life and in my family). I spent most of my teenage years wanting to die so I could go to heaven instead. The belief in heaven makes life hollow and meaningless. Going through puberty as a Christian was pure hell.

Getting rid of Christianity lifted a huge boulder of my shoulders, which had a strong positive impact on my life. The greatest positive impact was that I learned that prayer did nothing to improve my situation, only my own personal effort did. My best time is now.

23. Religious groups want Russian cartoon channel shut down

Comment #145995 by JemyM on March 18, 2008 at 1:09 pm

How do you "promote homosexuality"? Do you promote genes or do you promote the freedom to live as you were born?

24. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144040 by JemyM on March 15, 2008 at 12:49 am

Thoughts:
1. The idea that good things comes to them who are good and bad things comes to them who are bad is not a good one. No matter what life you live your child might be born with cancer. Behaving good will help you to suceed in the society though but when bad luck comes about we should not blame people, we should help them.

2. The God-driven evolution tries to reconnect the branches of a tree after the roots have been demolished. The ethic monotheistic God most commonly refered to here is the biblical one and if you remove Genesis from it you remove the idea of ancestoral sin and thus Jesus forgiveness. If you do not believe in that, are there any reason for you to believe in the rest of the book? If you agree that you can treat the rest of it with a grain of salt, consider that the Bible is the source for the idea about a God. If you disconnect from the Bible you also have to disconnect from whatever attribute you assign to God that is inspired from that book.

3. Jesus was not a "good man" by todays standard and he would completely fail a run for politics with our modern morals. When you read the gospels through and through you will find him as an opportunists who when he have the upper hand behaves like a complete jerk to them who are close to him.

4. Why did the bible survive for 2000 years? It was introduced 393, the birth of Jesus was decided 531. Throughout 500 years pagans were slain and tortured in the most gruesome ways. It took an extra 700 years until the society had evolved into a state in which you did not risk the death penalty for doubting and another 2-300 years before you were guaranteed your freedom even if you started to question the authority of church. We are now living here after more than a thousand years of indoctrination and the threat of death to the ones who would not support it. Only during the 1900, as soon as people started to use their legal right to question the bible, it's number of followers started to fall like a rock and it will continue to fall until it's either gone or it's again illegal to criticize it.

25. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143610 by JemyM on March 14, 2008 at 8:42 am

"Not believing in sin is very dangerous"

The one word debunker works here as well: "Sweden".

26. Oklahoma: One Step from Doom

Comment #141417 by JemyM on March 10, 2008 at 11:22 am

I hope no Swedish university accepts students from Oklahoma without testing them first. We would not want to get people that learned that ignorance is a valid option.

27. When blasphemy bit the dust

Comment #140973 by JemyM on March 9, 2008 at 10:10 am

I find it odd indeed that the country that gave birth to the western society (liberalism, human rights etc) have 87 votes 2008 on prosecuting people for speaking out against a character in an ancient Israelan book. I find it to be a blasphemy against our core values like freedom of speech.

28. Hebrew University researcher: Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai

Comment #138425 by JemyM on March 4, 2008 at 9:43 am

Funny, but I would probably go with the theory that Moses never existed.

29. Fleas on the Horizon: In Defense of God

Comment #138115 by JemyM on March 4, 2008 at 12:44 am

Because God surely needs a human bodyguard who defend him against other humans.

30. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132885 by JemyM on February 25, 2008 at 11:14 am

There's a one word debunker here... "Sweden".

31. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #132513 by JemyM on February 24, 2008 at 10:20 pm

This is a reminder that I should take all academic titles given by American universities with a grain of salt.

32. Moral thinking

Comment #131255 by JemyM on February 22, 2008 at 6:13 am

Im actually looking for the studies required to work with research on this topic.

33. Archbishop's 8 March centennial message: Let Sharia Law govern women's lives, Amen!

Comment #128762 by JemyM on February 17, 2008 at 10:44 pm

Multiculturalism is indeed racism and a kind of apartheid. To think you can define cultures and see them as a separate runs the same line of thinking as nationalism.

34. Why multiculturalism must be abandoned

Comment #125179 by JemyM on February 11, 2008 at 3:32 am

Multiculture builds on the same mistake as nationalism, the belief that culture can be defined and that there is an authority that can do so.

35. Battle of the Chambersburg billboards

Comment #124528 by JemyM on February 9, 2008 at 5:44 pm

The first billboard questioned beliefs. The other is incitement against a specific group.

36. Pope says some science shatters human dignity

Comment #120091 by JemyM on February 1, 2008 at 8:55 am

The next pope I will pay notice to will have to be a woman one.

37. Morality and the 'new atheism'

Comment #119864 by JemyM on January 31, 2008 at 11:51 pm

Really... the claim that one who do not fully agree with an ideology is immoral is a classic and primitive way to downgrade human beings into less than human. It's one of the least moral and most poisonous ideas available to mankind. More people need to get aware of that.

38. Richard Dawkins on The Big Debate

Comment #118008 by JemyM on January 30, 2008 at 8:06 am

"Religious Apartheid" must have been the greatest label on Multiculturalist views I ever heard.

39. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117486 by JemyM on January 29, 2008 at 12:07 am

It lights up the issue with "atheism" once again. Atheism is a pointless name that seem to indicate a group when it's rather the rejection of one idea.

40. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117042 by JemyM on January 28, 2008 at 6:26 am

Great article, and I expanded my criticism against all dogma awhile ago. Bertrand Russel's article (also in the Portable Atheist) is a great read on this subject: http://www.solstice.us/russell/intellectual_rubbish.html

41. US scientists close to creating artificial life: study

Comment #115812 by JemyM on January 24, 2008 at 8:50 pm

I find the comment about being "God" or not interesting. A few cults have said themselves to be Gods for at least 5000 years and that's the whole point with the Holy Spirit. Having belief in the human capacity is a really bad thing within Christianity as it diminishes their status as the "saved" and "clean".

42. Three Little Pigs 'too offensive'

Comment #115433 by JemyM on January 24, 2008 at 7:38 am

why do most articles from Britain sound like the Brits are nutters these days? They are the forefathers of liberalism and now they are killing it off on daily basis.

43. Gay Jesus play blasted by bishop

Comment #114046 by JemyM on January 21, 2008 at 9:16 am

Homophobes who call themselves christians should just bend over. If Jesus have a problem with this, let him speak, the rest can just shut up.

44. Violence fear over Islam film

Comment #113651 by JemyM on January 20, 2008 at 9:46 am

"It is difficult to anticipate the content of the film, but freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend"
Yes, it does actually. Even more so when what's attacked is nothing more than opinions.

I would personally adress the problem with religion as a whole instead of beginning with the Quaran though. The releationship between a moderate muslim and the Quaran is no different from the relationship between a moderate christian an the Bible. The content is just the same and the only reason there's more fundamentalists within Islam is due to several theocracies who serves as a reminder what Religion can do to a nation.

45. Britain cannot put its faith in religiously divided schools

Comment #113541 by JemyM on January 20, 2008 at 12:59 am

Same people, different books, learning to be tolerant to eachother. Something tells me it's the book that is the problem, not the people. Whenever you label a person based on their thoughts, you do a terrible mistake. We have culturally condemned the idea of class, race, gender and the correct sexuality. Now lets abolish the idea of groups based on "nationality", "culture" and "religion" as well. Stop dividing people with illusionary walls. There is only one type of human.

46. Ethical storm as scientist becomes first man to clone HIMSELF

Comment #113539 by JemyM on January 20, 2008 at 12:52 am

People are always mistaken in what it is about a life, human or person that we value. We do not value life. We do not value humans. Not even people within religion do this. No, we have values that are way more complex than that.

47. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108126 by JemyM on January 6, 2008 at 4:38 am

My greatest reason for believing the Bible is written by men in the bronze age is that the concerns and values within are very similiar to what I would assume was great concerns and values of people in the bronze age. Concerns for the seventh day on the week, what direction you need to pray to, how you should have sex and who you should give your gold to is obviously not the concerns and values of an omnipotent, everlasting creator. When I read the Quran, Tripitaka and Mahabharata and compare them with social psychology and political philosophy they do not appear divine at all. In fact, it's core values that actually have any moral standing theese days, are the same values that our greatest philosophers came up with before those holy books were written.

However... THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT FOR ATHEISM. My greatest point, is that if there is a creator, a God, or something more out there, not a single one of our world religions have anything in them that are more valuable than whatever else we humans can come up with.

48. Stop House Resolution 888

Comment #107812 by JemyM on January 5, 2008 at 12:12 pm

Once Christianity erased history. That time it recovered because it was kept safe in the middle-east. If that had not happened, the world as we know it today would not exist.

49. A War On Science

Comment #105387 by JemyM on December 31, 2007 at 12:09 pm

In the western world, christians fight science and science simply defend themselves with evidence. But when people start to say that the truth is optional and you can choose to ignore direct evidence it is important to fight back. We need to disarm the core foundation that teaches the controversy, and that's the bible. It is a book that makes specific claims over the history of Israel, itself and the world. But it is a physical object, not a supernatural one and it can and should be approached by science once for all.
From what we can tell by historical and archeaological evidence, the biblical timeline is not more true than any of the ancient myths and it is not even consistent with itself. The real history of Israel should be taught to people. After that point the theory of "intelligent design" is not interesting anymore.

50. Russia prohibits denial of Santa

Comment #103934 by JemyM on December 27, 2007 at 11:07 am

A similar law in the US would send many Christians to jail.