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Comments by Vinelectric


1. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175777 by Vinelectric on May 6, 2008 at 2:36 am

mmurray

Off the top of my head, I remember an announcement after every incident. Can't give any links but will dig them up after work.

I know what you mean, it could all be empty politically correct BS. In fact, it probably was!!

2. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175775 by Vinelectric on May 6, 2008 at 2:32 am

Tera and Bonzai

One of the few who are taking this thread seriously. Otherwise threads on Islam tend to turn into Islam relief (as in stress-relief!) group therapy sessions !!!!

3. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175772 by Vinelectric on May 6, 2008 at 2:27 am

DalaiDrivel

But I think that's pretty close to what Muslims are actually doing. Taunting us, don't you think?


All I (we) can do is keep working on each side to try to preserve the voice of reason on this camp and get some sense out of the other.

4. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175768 by Vinelectric on May 6, 2008 at 2:18 am

mmurray

Hang on a sec, the link said 500 representatives of the community. Unless you expect a daily briefing by every single member of the community to remind the public that they all have the decency and common sense to denounce terrorism, then expect no more!

In fact this is the only link I could dig out so far. I remember very clearly, full page statements by the MCB after the Glasgow incident but don't have the link. Of course Sam probably either does not know or does not really care if the community have spoken against them. He's decided it in his mind that no one has said anything at all!!!

5. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175598 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 4:55 pm

That Sam Harris needs to cut some crap out:

a pornographic fascination with videos showing the butchery of infidels and apostates, a vibrant form of anti-semitism that is explicitly genocidal in its aspirations, and an aptitude for producing children's books and television programs which exalt suicide-bombing and depict Jews as "apes and pigs."


Note, in one paragraph, he confuses widespread practices such as polygamy with those that are actively campaigned against in muslim countries (female circumcision) with the deeds of the psychologically deranged extremist groups e.g videoing captives being butchered.

Is the intention to present these as the norm in the community? That smells more right wingish than rational discourse.

6. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175591 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 4:47 pm

It is astounding how infrequently one hears such candor among the public voices of "moderate" Islam.


Sam's favourite cliche and shameless lie! Remember this headline?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4694441.stm

BBC: More than 500 British Muslim religious leaders and scholars have issued a fatwa in response to the London bombs.

7. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175588 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 4:37 pm

DalaiDrivel

The "right to offend" used to be practised by stand-up comedy clowns and the uneducated/intellectually bankrupt.

Nowadays it's a bleeding virtue? !!!!!

I don't want my community leader or governor going around stirring up trouble just to prove a point. That would be silly.

8. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175583 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 4:25 pm

al-rawandi

The Muslim community certainly needs to do more to publicly outcry its extremist factions but failing to make a distinction between the provocative preachers and the average law abiding Muslim is nothing but group punishment. Who else dares to use the terms "munafiq" and "kafir" to the people that have welcomed them in their country?

it is the fact that Muslims remain, on average in Europe, bigoted, condescending, undereducate, misogynistic, hateful, and ignorant..


To me that sounds completely out of line but that's maybe because almost all my Muslim contacts in the UK are professionals working for the Healthcare system. But even when I used to attend Friday prayers I rarely encountered the sort of preachers that were featured in the sensational and carefully picked clips in "Undercover Mosque".

Anti Western propaganda like the "Dirty Kuffar" video are largely underground anti-social movements that are by no stretch of imagination endorsed by the immigrant community.

Don't you think taking a group who seem to bitterly hate the culture while sucking up its freedoms like some remora might cause a lack of social cohesion.


But my question was to you, as a member of the dominant, powerful and truly influential group in the country. Is there anything you can contribute to educating the social parasites and changing the status quo other than expressing your own frustration that they haven't turned out to be what you expected them to?

Someone has to assume the moral high ground and pull the others out of this nightmare.

What about adjusting immigration rules, abolishing segregated faith schools, demanding policy changes from mainstream Muslim umbrella groups...etc.

9. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175516 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 2:24 pm

epeeist

There seems be a standard practice by certain Muslims of equivocating between religion and race.


Can you deny the correlation between race and religion in the UK? If you're Asian, living in Bradford, you're unlikely to be Catholic.

Remember the rise in racial attacks following the 7/7 bombings? Sikhs and Hindus were being attacked, mistaken for Muslims.

10. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #175506 by Vinelectric on May 5, 2008 at 2:16 pm

al-rawandi

Obviously it's a lot to do with Oil and political pressure from the loudest lobby. However do you not see that assuming a governmental position entails some unique responsibilities such as keeping an eye on social cohesion?

Take the Danish cartoon as an example.

To be offended by mere drawings is childish. As you've probably noticed, Muslims tend to worship the man so there is no easy way you can explain to them the ridiculousness of their position.

However, even as a non Muslim, you can't help but think that no one really goes out of their way to make fun of man who died 14 centuries ago. Muhammad in the drawings probably represents the Muslim community. All lumped together as terrorists. Never mind the fact that the Saudis have disowned Bin Laden and that they refer to Hamas missions as suicide bombers as opposed to holy warriors.

Also ignoring completely that hardcore Islamism is being actively suppressed in Algeria, Morocco, Egypt and even Syria and the Gulf states.

If you were in a position of power, would you act on blunt idealist instincts and start rapping out rabidly about the "right to offend" communities, Sam Harris style, or would you call for self discipline on bothsides?

If I had my way I'd silence both groups, but that is no way to open channels of effective dialogue.

11. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #175072 by Vinelectric on May 4, 2008 at 10:31 am

Bonzai

I have to make it clear, I would not allow myself or my children to ever submit to the twisted religion of Islam.

However what tends to happen, as my first hand experience with racism in the UK, is that the distinction between Islam as an ideology and Muslims as a group of human beings just doesn't happen in practise.

Why can't we address and challenge the doctrine without threatening to "destroy Islam"? What is this supposed to mean anyway? What does it mean to say Islam needs to be reformed but can not actually be reformed? Sounds like an invitation to persecute.

12. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #175067 by Vinelectric on May 4, 2008 at 10:19 am

zoltix

Fair enough. But we've come a long way from when the honest debater, full of logic and integrity, used to suggest we Nuke the Middle East!

It really annoys me when people expect to cherry pick archaic texts that they know so little about and try to present them as if they are relevant to what people in the Middle East are up to. For instance, what kind of vulgar deception lies behind quoting the Hadith on Sex with Slaves. Do muslims routinely keep slaves and have sex with them? If yes, show me the evidence. If not then why are you bringing this up?

I'm also baffled by the casual loudmouthing of people that you know about from the TV and your local paper. We are not talking about historical cultures. The culture is out there, practised by a billion. Yet you don't see it is crucial to get acquainted with your subject of study?

Unacceptable.

13. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174995 by Vinelectric on May 4, 2008 at 4:09 am

Fanusi Khiyal

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince you. I think you're quite irresponsible in dealing with this topic as any opnion that does not conform with the way you see the world is automatically disregarded.

My target audience is anyone with the sense or interest in knowing the other side to the story. Such is life, there always is.

With your lack of any substantial contact with the culture you're attacking (you amditted you could not understand the arabic websites I linked to you once) then you need to be slightly more open minded, so that you become better informed on your subject of fetish-like interest.

Ofir

You can not even begin to absolve yourself from the responsibility of seeking some kind of unbiased source. For example are you not interested to know what the other guest had to say in response to comments made by Wafa Sultan? MEMRI snipped it off. You can't claim a moral highground ever by endorsing such dishonesty.

This is exactly how muslim preachers indoctrinate impressionable young muslims on the "evil of the decadent west"! Show them videos of Israel bombing a family house in Gaza but snip out the fact that Hamas placed the rocket launchers there deliberately.

Sorry, we can all do better than that!

14. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174700 by Vinelectric on May 3, 2008 at 9:35 am

Besides, when you're slightly more grown up and mature in the head you may see a point to keeping the peace and calming tensions.

15. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174699 by Vinelectric on May 3, 2008 at 9:34 am

Fanusi Khiyal

The big difference between you and me is that I am a former Muslim. I know the thing inside out. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I think you should listen and learn.

16. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174669 by Vinelectric on May 3, 2008 at 6:51 am

Barry Pearson

You want to know what muslim leaders actually teach their flock about domestic violence? Go listen. Straightforward, really.

Doesn't take any great effort to notice that MEMRI's clips are seriously edited, at times they go for three or four seconds before the speaker is interrupted. Is this responsible reporting? I'm sure you can easily see how ridiculous they are.

You want to re-link and rephrase secondary and tertiary sources. Be my guest. However credibility and the relevance of your conclusions to the real world can be called into question.

17. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174652 by Vinelectric on May 3, 2008 at 4:11 am

Ramzi D

True. Even if the family did not pressure you, the emotional blackmailing of belief in Hell will.

18. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174651 by Vinelectric on May 3, 2008 at 4:05 am

Barry Pearson

It isn't necessary to learn the language!

Have a look at the MEMRI TV website or view their stuff on YouTube, with subtitles:



For honesty's sake, forget MEMRI ! The translations are correct but they cherry pick shamelessly. If you're really interested in analysing a culture make sure you make an effor to get your info first hand. Biased reporting and the MEMRI propaganda project is not a good start.

19. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174548 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 4:13 pm

rod-the-farmer

Learn the language, subscribe to any Arabic satellite channel and you're guaranteed to hear a preacher talk about Muhammad helping his wives clean the house, saying "take good care of your wives" in his deathbed etc etc. Unfortunately he never abrogated the verse in the Quran that invites men to flog their wives. Truth is he was never reported to be mean to his many wives
.

20. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174543 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 4:09 pm

mmurray

You'd have to place your bet on the life of Muhammad as someone who really knew how Islam is supposed to be practised. Problem is that he's gone through many transformations during his career. From the early meccan rebel: "Behold the people of Mecca, I have come to you with massacre" (Ibn Hisham) to the late years where he's mellowed down to "The right of mankind on Allah is that he should never torture them" and mortgaging his armour from a Jewish merchant.

"True Islam" is a cheap cliche, an obscurantist's tool to confuse and water down any criticism of the religion.

21. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174533 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 3:41 pm

Dinah

The veil will only revert to being 'just a piece of cloth' when every Muslim woman has a genuine choice about whether or not to wear it.


But that's practically the case in most countries except Iran and Saudi. In Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Algeria, Morocco female muslim activists see it as empowering and a feminist answer to those men who wish to see women fully made up and pleasing to the eyes!

I wouldn't want to either impose or ban the veil. If she thinks it's a piece of cloth then, end of story! By the way, did you notice that in Saudi even men cover their hair in white cloth? There's a cultural aspect to the veil independent to religion.

I

22. Was the new finger a 'natural' miracle?

Comment #174527 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Bizarro Dawkins

Is it possible that this "pixie dust" simply accelerates the fingertip regeneration?


The finger tip is a composite of several different cell lines. You may, in theory, accelerate the growth of each line separately. To regenerate a whole segment of finger (note the man had a near amputation, just short of the first joint) the remaining cells need to revert to a non committed stem cell lineage then re grow just the right amount and proportion of tissue to achieve not just the right composition, but the right structure and contour as well.

When scientists talk about heart, liver, pancreas regeneration they are hoping to culture an amorphous, homogenous block of tissue derived from pluri-potential stem cells. Not that you'd ever hope to grow a beating heart with its complex electrical circuitry or self regulating vascular tree. If you can appreciate the intricate anatomy of any sub-part of your own hands you'd scream FORGERY!! straight away at this article.

23. Was the new finger a 'natural' miracle?

Comment #174522 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 2:51 pm

Stephen Maxwell

I'm glad you did. You probably had a nail avulsion. So long as the underlying nailbed, the germinal matrix, is not crushed you grow your nail in a few months.

A nailbed injury, the fleshy pink stuff that makes nails, if not repaired surgically can not take less than two years to regenerate its natural contour unless you sprinkle "pixie-dust" or have some salamander gene therapy!!

That man grew bone, flesh, nail and nailbed from committed adult soft tissue cells. Rubbish.

24. Muslim Rebel Sisters: At Odds With Islam and Each Other

Comment #174433 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 12:21 pm

Jiten

WTF? So what is she saying? That if she had actually been exposed to the religion she is supporting she would disown it?


exactly. Even I, living under strict Muslim rule, only rejected the religion when I started taking notice of it! Otherwise most people are happy to just abide by whatever law and get on with their miserable temporary existence.

25. Was the new finger a 'natural' miracle?

Comment #174423 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Within weeks the nail grew back? After being chopped to almost the joint?

Well if you injured your nailbed, say trapped in a door, you'd need three to four nail growth cycles for it to regain its concave contour like the picture shown. We're talking two years. This nail recovered its natural structure in weeks?

Piss off.

26. Anti-Evolution Film Misappropriates the Holocaust

Comment #174418 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 11:54 am

I'm glad Qutb's ideology is currently off stream in the majority of the Arabian Middle East.

27. Anti-Evolution Film Misappropriates the Holocaust

Comment #174404 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 11:37 am

al-rawandi

George Habash was the head of the PFLP, not the PLO


Never claimed he was a leader of the PLO. You're absolutely right but he was a leading member of the PLO before he founded the PFLP. Anyhow don't want to distract you further you seem to be fighting simultaneously on different fronts. There goes you're well deserved "mental break"!

28. Anti-Evolution Film Misappropriates the Holocaust

Comment #174330 by Vinelectric on May 2, 2008 at 7:19 am

al-rawandi

Yet a major setback in the Islamic-Jewish relationship followed the creation of the state of Israel and the displacement of an unknown number of Palestenians. I can comfortably see the breakdown in the already fragile relationship as a matter of pan arab nationalism as much as it is simple minded religious rivalry.

In the "good ol days" you have Jewish actors and singers featuring prominently in the entertainment industry (Zaki Murad, Layla Murad in Egypt). This is now inconceivable. Islamic doctrine hasn't changed in the 1400 years. Something else has, and it has a lot to do with the US and the UK. Yeah?

How else do you explain the involvement of non-muslim arabs in the conflict (e.g the PLO's George Habash).


I'd condemn violence against civilians but I'd be fooling myself if I'd expected middle eastern Muslims to receive the Zionist state with open arms. You don't need to subscribe to a violent ideology to drive you over the edge if your family was uprooted for someone else's benefit.

Nevertheless, Egypt and Jordan are slowly trying to re-establish links with the Israelis, Moroccan Jewry don't seem to want to emigrate at the same rate as they used to, Al Jazeera is airing culture awareness-type programs to educate the masses about Yemen's Jewry.

If Islam was capable of inducing such an overwhelming hatred of Jews then I probably wasn't a Muslim even when I used to follow the Wahhabi sect!!!

29. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #173864 by Vinelectric on May 1, 2008 at 9:56 am

The death penalty for adultery is one of those religious prescriptions that are so appalling that most modern Muslim societies have completely abandoned with "all due respect" to the religion.

The man got away with it because of the phoenominal level of corruption in the country not because honour killings are allowed.

30. Pat Condell: Anthology DVD available now!

Comment #173335 by Vinelectric on April 30, 2008 at 4:23 pm

KILLJOY ALERT...!

Condell appropriately applies the tabloid treatment to topics that deserve nothing more. I implore all Condell critics to spare us the grief on this occasion.

31. Mecca should become core to measure time zones: scholars

Comment #165573 by Vinelectric on April 21, 2008 at 5:35 pm

al-rawandi

No, no, no..Islam is all about evidence.. have you not heard the famous saying:

al ba-aru yadullu ala al ba-eer? lol

"Cattle droppings are evidence for cattle"

The Islamic version of the argument from design is, literally, the "argument from bullshit"...!

32. BBC 'too scared to allow jokes about Islam'

Comment #154827 by Vinelectric on April 3, 2008 at 7:12 pm

"There's no doubt about it, the BBC will let vicar gags pass but they would not let imam gags pass.


Where does he get that impression from?

Just off the top of my head:

There's a game in "Mock the Week" (BBC2) where the comedians are asked to act "scenes we'd like to see"
Hugh Dennis imagined a plane being hijacked by muslim terrorists. The pilot announces:

"Due to an unforseen rise in Islam, this plane is being diverted to Paradise"...........!

And where was Marcus Brigstocke's hilarious rant on religion broadcast? BBC radio 4

33. Sue Blackmore debates Alister McGrath

Comment #151127 by Vinelectric on March 28, 2008 at 7:26 am

If you find something useful, then you will be more likely to be persuaded that it is true.


I disagree. Many people find themselves oppressed by their own religious beliefs. Those beliefs are hardly useful.


I'd say that despite the self imposed psychological torture the fundamentalist knows that in the grand scheme of things he/she will get fantastic rewards in the hereafter for their misery.

At least that's true of Islam. No one puts up with the sticks unless they see a carrot at the end of the tunnel (no pun intended).

34. Fossil find could be Europe's first humans

Comment #150592 by Vinelectric on March 27, 2008 at 6:34 am

I've always suspected my boss was at least a million years old.

35. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143024 by Vinelectric on March 13, 2008 at 11:21 am

The monarch, and by extension, the whole country is supposed to be Anglican anyway. Any Anglican who is serious about their faith should lobby to ban Catholicism altogether.

"Values and teachings of the Catholic Church" my arse.

36. When blasphemy bit the dust

Comment #140622 by Vinelectric on March 8, 2008 at 3:04 am

That is the whole point of independent churches. But why are established churches not more obviously financially ravenous, or am I missing something?


But by their-God they are!

Steve: the Church commissioners own and manage the entire block of luxuury apartments in Marble Arch in London. To be more specific the area enclosed by Sussex Gardens, Edgeware Road, Bayswater Road but not entirely sure about the western extent of this mega-estate.

For those who don't know London this is where Tony Blair moved in last year. They lease (barely 200 meters squared) two bedroom flats for 600,000 to 750, 000 pounds and semi-detached houses go for no less than two million.

Their-God knows what else they're up to!

37. Christopher Hitchens on Real Time with Bill Maher

Comment #136990 by Vinelectric on March 2, 2008 at 5:10 am

Steve wrote:

Hitchens is wrong about the birth of Buddha


Going through the second reading of "god is not Great" and I could detect other misrepresentations and inaccuracies by Hitchens e.g his claim that the verses of the Quran in the Dome of the Rock are unique. This coupled with his entertaining (yet annoying!) excessive appeal to cheap humour is making it difficult for me to follow his comic rants. I wonder if that is putting off the religious as well.

I prefer Dawkins' engaging and upfront no-nonesense approach.

38. Pakistan blocks YouTube over blasphemous video

Comment #133221 by Vinelectric on February 25, 2008 at 10:49 pm

Anyone else sees the difference between the well researched essays on comparative religion by well known atheist writers (even the entertainingly irreverant Hitchens) and the right wing screaming-banshees?

As if we don't have enough community tensions already, some retard suddenly goes into a Free-Speech-Tourette fit for the sake of fullfilling a completely useless "free-speech" urge.

We end up, as usual, with a situation with some retards screaming "Fuck Islam" while others scream "Fuck the West" retardingly ever after.

And then what?

39. Sprinting down the evolutionary highway

Comment #121753 by Vinelectric on February 4, 2008 at 4:38 am

yanco
In fact humans are now suffering nasty infections from novel organisms such as MRSA and VRE that have appeared because of the use of antibiotics. That should ensure that the unfortunate evolutionary race between the host and the infectious organism is likely to continue.

40. Female Muslim medics 'disobey hygiene rules'

Comment #121463 by Vinelectric on February 3, 2008 at 12:54 pm

mdowe

If they can't do the job for whatever reason, then then should be "involuntarily encouraged" to find another career


Don't be mislead into thinking that defiant doctors are tolerated. They're not and we don't need the Telegraph to remind us how to discipline our staff. Happens all the time, I assure you. Even delaying answering your pager for a few minutes can land you a formal complaint from the nursing staff (even though you were in the toilet or having a heart attack or jumping on someone's chest as soemtimes happens!) let alone getting away with not washing your hands in theatre.

41. Female Muslim medics 'disobey hygiene rules'

Comment #121446 by Vinelectric on February 3, 2008 at 12:10 pm

One of the consultants I worked for refused to wear a plastic apron (standard Intensive care barrier nursing) because it made him look as if he was doing the dishes. Instead of reporting it to the papers the staff report such matters to the managers who discipline eccentric staff.

The NHS employs thousands and you're bound to bump into the loony-type every now and then but things should be dealt with internally as such sensational stories betray the vast majority who work hard to provide best patient care they can provide. I've come across all sorts of religious fundies including Muslims but I've never heard of this before as anyone who disobeys the strict nursing codes of meticuolous scrubbing is simply barred from theatre.

42. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120953 by Vinelectric on February 2, 2008 at 7:36 pm

By the way, next time they conduct a study on the effect of religion on psychology they should include the children of Wahabi muslims.

The type of religion and the way it is delivered are important variables. Or maybe they aren't. Let's wait for what the studies say.

43. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #120904 by Vinelectric on February 2, 2008 at 6:29 pm

Lorien
I agree that purely natural processes are responsible for autonomy of thought and, by extension, the illusion of free will.

The best you can hope for is to explain the mechanism behind the concept e.g natural selection of a constant stream of thought resulting in a decision to carry out a certain command.

However you should stop right there! The end result is a human being who is able to choose how to spend their extra income or whether to carry out an act of selfless altruism. On a less drastic tone, choosing to reject a subversive religion like Islam or Christianity is, to me, good evidence that we are endowed with a certain level of thought autonomy that could best be described as free will.

What do you think?

44. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #120799 by Vinelectric on February 2, 2008 at 2:59 pm

LorienRyan

Is there really any 'design' going on at all?


It's to do with conscious intent to initiate the process and guide it along different lines even when one is not compelled to do so e.g aesthetic appearences of the final product. I think it all boils down to how you feel about the notion of "free will".

45. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #120798 by Vinelectric on February 2, 2008 at 2:55 pm

You'd think that physicians, knowing very well how vulnerable the human body is to environmental insults, would be rather inclined to think that we could not possibly be the product of an omniscient designer.

The wards are full of evidence that either "it" does not exist or "it" couldn't care less. Someone else commented on another thread that "physicians tend to play god because someone has to". Sad but ture.

46. Happy Birthday Josh Timonen!

Comment #119104 by Vinelectric on January 31, 2008 at 10:23 am

HAPPY the day after BIRTHDAY...!

47. A Letter From Hell

Comment #117650 by Vinelectric on January 29, 2008 at 9:43 am

Goldy Go away..!
Have you not heard Enya's "Carribean Blue"? And while you're at it why not try John Cameron's "Half forgotton daydreams" on the Nacho Libre soundtrack?

Please don't argue!

48. A Letter From Hell

Comment #117150 by Vinelectric on January 28, 2008 at 10:33 am

heathen2

Chapter 69 AlHaaqqah

27] "Ah! Would that (Death) had made an end of me!"

[28] "Of no profit to me has been my wealth!"
[29] "My power has perished from me!"

[30] (The stern command will say): "Seize ye him, and bind ye him,
[31] "And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire.
[32] "Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!
(Further, chain him and thread his body on a chain that is seventy cubits long!
[33] "This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High,
[34] "And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent!
[35] "So no friend hath he here this Day."
[36] "Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds,
[37] "Which none do eat but those in sin."

The wording of 32 is pecuiliar to this translation. I read the book in Arabic and famous commentators agree that the meaning of the words is that people are to be threaded on the chains not be marched on them. It's not one of those difficult or archaic terms so I think the translator was too embarrased to include this madness. Other notions of molten lead poured on to ears or being dragged face on...etc are in various other bits.


Sorry for the morbid chit chat but you asked for it!

49. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #117131 by Vinelectric on January 28, 2008 at 10:11 am

Marcus Hill

I think you're absolutely right. I personally know of at least two friends who chose to bank with HSBC because it offers the so called "Amanah" Sharia friendly accounts. The involvement of more reputable banks in this business will help keep purely Islamic ventures (e.g the newly founded Islamic Bank of Britain) at bay as the bigger banks are likely to be able to afford to offer more attractive services anyway.

50. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #117124 by Vinelectric on January 28, 2008 at 10:03 am

Thanks al-rawandi

I like that model but of course it's not just the success of the business you need to worry about it's the stability of the market itslef! So I suppose I can only practically be Sharia compliant if I adopted that model in, say Japan with its low inflation rates, and used the money to invest in a stable business like Mitsubishi or Sony for a year at a time!!

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