Comments by Vinelectric

Comment #423786 by Vinelectric on October 14, 2009 at 10:54 pm

Judging by the numbers of subscribers to the major Arab Atheist forums....there are thousands out there....

www.el7ad.org

2. Professor Richard Dawkins wants to convert Islamic world to evolution: Review of 'The Greatest Show on Earth'

Comment #408444 by Vinelectric on August 23, 2009 at 12:13 pm

There's already a translation of "The Genius of Darwin" and "The Root of all Evil" to Arabic on a youtube channel by a Canadian Arab

http://www.youtube.com/user/antiGoebbels

and to all Arabic speaking atheists, here's my youtube page...please lend us your support... but be ware..our Islamic audience tends to be a bit abusive....!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Godcreateddisease

:)

3. Professor Richard Dawkins wants to convert Islamic world to evolution: Review of 'The Greatest Show on Earth'

Comment #408439 by Vinelectric on August 23, 2009 at 12:04 pm

Good luck Prof

Everytime I hint to the science of evolution to an Islamic audience on my Youtube forum

All I get back is "your mother is a whore...your father is a monkey....what a joke..."

:(

4. Preacher says atheist ad campaign backfired

Comment #362976 by Vinelectric on April 11, 2009 at 4:58 am

EvidenceOnly

God will make you suffer if you don't do what She/He/IT wants (which I abbreviate to SHIT;

Chuckles !!

That's how I shall be referring to s/h/it too from now on !

Holy s/h/it :)

5. The thing that made the things for which there is no known maker.

Comment #362573 by Vinelectric on April 9, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Brilliant!

Please check out his "Free Will God style Part 3"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wSjJAsrAk

Good stuff !

6. God Versus The Advertising Standards Authority

Comment #316584 by Vinelectric on January 10, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Nevermind the video,

Halleu-Alexandra Burke !!

7. Atheists launch bus ad campaign

Comment #313615 by Vinelectric on January 6, 2009 at 11:49 am

Well done.
Well done.

8. Storm

Comment #307849 by Vinelectric on December 28, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Brilliant !

Never heard on Minchin before but will look out for him from now on.

9. 2008: A good year for Neanderthals

Comment #307173 by Vinelectric on December 27, 2008 at 10:25 am

dan001

I keep saying, Neanderthals can't be extinct. I personally know two guys, one of them a previous boss, that make Neanderthals look pretty in comparison!

10. Siphonophore: Deep-sea superorganism

Comment #305610 by Vinelectric on December 23, 2008 at 10:05 am

scary monster! Now, where the bleeding hell did this one come from?
And they've already figured out its bleeding genetic code? Good grief!!
I wonder if metazoans have gone through such a stage in the evolution of complex multicellularity.
Shudderrr..oh the thoght of it...

11. 'Prop 8 - The Musical'

Comment #296272 by Vinelectric on December 3, 2008 at 11:04 am

Excellent.

Does this sort of thing make its way to television?

12. Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson Debate

Comment #294902 by Vinelectric on December 1, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Time and time again, Hitch lets theists get away with murder.

What applies to the part does not necessarily apply to the whole and the rverse is similarily false. I am made of trillions of particles that behave like particles and waves. I, as a whole, don't.

I need Oxygen and Water to maintain my structural integrity. My atoms don't.

If the universe as a whole is devoid of a particular purpose does not imply that there is no truth or whatever string of non-sequiturs that Wilson was inventing.

13. Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed

Comment #285081 by Vinelectric on November 16, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Apathy Personified

He goes on to say that his existence or non-existence can not be proven. The Hadith narrators count in the hundreds and the hundreds of different similar versions of their narratives, about anything from how he organised his army to what he used to do to his wife in private, when he used to urinated standing up or squatting (!!) can that all be forged ?

Maybe, but my skeptical alarm bells are screaming at me right now.

And that Quran, for all its worth, sounds very much like a one man show to me so, nah, nah.. will wait for the book, apparently it's coming out in English but not sure when.

14. Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed

Comment #285073 by Vinelectric on November 16, 2008 at 4:55 pm

Has anyone found a link to more detailed version of the man's arguments?

A coin appearing sixty years later doesn't mean he did not exist! Please, let me know if you find a proper coverage of the thesis.

15. Islamic Theologian's Theory: It's Likely the Prophet Muhammad Never Existed

Comment #285068 by Vinelectric on November 16, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Shock Horror!

mmmm tasty, now let's see what the article's on about!

16. Obama will move to veto Bush laws

Comment #281248 by Vinelectric on November 10, 2008 at 3:21 am

Naturalist1

One Guantanamo proposal coming up...!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081110/ap_on_el_pr/obama_guantanamo

17. Stoning victim 'begged for mercy'

Comment #280862 by Vinelectric on November 8, 2008 at 3:30 pm

Somalia has hit a dead end.

The living nightmare in that country is the fact that there is no competing culture to challenge their primitive beliefs. They identify themselves with none other than Islam. The lack of security and infra structure means that it is unlikely that civility will begin to flourish anytime soon.

18. Hitchens Debates Rabbi Wolpe on God

Comment #280779 by Vinelectric on November 8, 2008 at 10:36 am

Neuro

Shermer also debated D'Souza three times. Here is the most recent one and in my opinion is definitely worth seeing.

Part 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6H8ZP0DjJb8

EDIT this particular youtube user has uploaded the debate in 13 parts.

19. ELECTION DAY IN THE USA. GO VOTE.

Comment #278713 by Vinelectric on November 5, 2008 at 3:38 am

Congratulations Darwinspitsbull!

20. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #276673 by Vinelectric on November 2, 2008 at 11:35 am

Nairb

I know of three references in the Qur'an, two addressed to Jews violating the Sabbath code (Chapter 2, verse 65 and Chapter 7 verse 166) and one addressed to both Jews and Christians from Chapter 5 verses 59 and 60:

Say: "O People of the Book! do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"

Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped Evil, these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even Path!"

The references in the Hadith are several but that needs a bit of dedicated research to fish them out. Most are variations of the hadith I quoted above.

I can only speak for countries following the Maliki tradition (mainly North Africa) and those with substantial Christian minorities e.g Sudan, Egypt and Lebanon. With the exception of the occasional angry Friday sermon (usually following Israeli/Palestenian violence) the message in the mainstream media and in religious class tend to quote the following:

Chapter 2: verse 62

Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Chapter 29 verse 46

And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury); but say, "We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God and your God is One; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

Chapter 5 verse 82:

Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Unfortunately, for those studying the Quran the beingn verses concerning Christians are hard to spot given the disproportionate number of harsh verses reiterating how blasphemous they are for claiming Jesus was the son of God and worshipping him.

Like I said I can only speak for countries which do not follow the Hanbali-Wahabbi school and although I've been aware of the derogatory verses in the Quran concerning the "People of the Book" at an early age I've never actually seen them in children's books and I'm concerned that they are still included in the Saudi curriculum especially after 9/11 and the consequent deterioration in Islam's image in the West.

21. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #276634 by Vinelectric on November 2, 2008 at 7:39 am

NAIRB

Muslims think it acceptable that sinners among Christians and Jews were transformed into animals because it is one of those types of punishment that Allah applies to everyone, including Muslims.

Here is hadith from Bukhari (collection of authentic sayings and traditions of Muhammad):

"The Prophet PBUH said, "There will be (at some future time) people from my
ummah (community of Muslims) who will seek to make lawful: fornication, the
wearing of silk (by men), wine-drinking, and the use of musical
instruments....... Then Allah will destroy them during the night
by causing the mountain to fall on them, while he changes others into apes and
swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Judgement.

22. Interview with Richard Dawkins on fairy tales and retirement

Comment #275549 by Vinelectric on October 31, 2008 at 9:59 am

isthatclear

How come a model solar system needs a desıgner but the real model system has no desıgner

There is a little trick in such statements and it may take you some time and effort to see it.

Natural objects appear less designed the closer you look at them, in sharp contrast with man made objects.

Next time you come across a similar model you can be confident to proclaim that someone must have designed it, but look at the stars and the planets, the real thing, again. Completely different stuff. They provide their own energy (stars), they are self propelled (planetary orbits) and, as you see in nice pictures of the Hubble space telescope, they are born spontaneously in regions of dense gas in the universe and go out, poof!, just like that.

Among a billion or so attempts one appears to support a planet. Among many such planets only one, or so, will turn out to be hospitable for living beings. A disproportionate ratio of failures : success. Trial and error, isn't it? If there was a designer behind this then it certainly is playing dice.

Look at any watch or other instruments. See the perfect circles (e.g cogwheel), straight lines and orderly mechanisms. Then look at your own body. The are no straight lines or perfect circles. Your heart rate varies from beat to beat. Each cycle of cell replication produces some minor variation or genetic error. None of your cells look exactly alike and do not resemble any one else's.

Can you see that you were comparing apples with oranges all along?

Edited

23. Teaching hate in UK schools

Comment #275414 by Vinelectric on October 31, 2008 at 6:54 am

It's actually, you can't be a Muslim that way. It comes from the heart.

Otherwise you'll be whipped in public.

24. New Simonyi Chair appointed

Comment #273611 by Vinelectric on October 29, 2008 at 1:38 am

A new avatar to celebrate...

"The Story Of Mathematics" is absolutely brilliant !

25. Children need to be sprinkled with fairy dust

Comment #273210 by Vinelectric on October 28, 2008 at 10:10 am

Dr Hameer

It is perhaps less confusing to describe the appeal to reason and objective facts as "objective rationality". In this way, irrational behaviour would be easily distinguished from the essentially non-rational choices we make based upon instinctive benchmarks such as the innate preference to certain melodic arrangement or some ill-defined taste for particular forms of artistic expression.

26. May your god go with you

Comment #272063 by Vinelectric on October 27, 2008 at 12:25 am

Bonzai

That's even "worse". That is like a plant race feeding on our sperms, ovaries and foetuses or something similar!!!

27. May your god go with you

Comment #272060 by Vinelectric on October 27, 2008 at 12:17 am

noneoftheabove

Meat-eating is certainly natural to humans - as are rape and murder.

But why kill-to-eat anything at all? Wouldn't it be nice to avoid the mass killing of plants by giving everyone total parenteral nutrition?

It sure is expensive but, to hell with money if it stands in the way of ethics!

I hope you see the point of the sarcasm.

To avoid such obtuseness creeping into the collective conscience let us define exactly what we base our ethics upon.

"We care for the environment" is great but needs to be further spelled out for very practical reasons. Should we give all environmental entities equal weighting or should we decide on planes of hierarchy that guide our ethical judgement?

You'd still have to kill-to-eat plants otherwise human life would not be practically sustainable. Humans will die, Humans will suffer. So? Your and my ethical reference point is primarily "human welfare".

Why do you allow yourself to disproportionally destroy and consume beings that live, sense (light stimuli), reproduce, respirate (not "ventilate")... such as plants but not animals? When making an ethical judgement you're allowing yourself to stratify living beings according to other characteristics such as nociception and psychological vulnerability.

It is nice to want to care for all aspects of the environment, living and non-living alike, but is this rational and prudent or muddled and naive logic?

28. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270634 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2008 at 11:27 am

tieinterceptor

Thanks for your kind comment but as long as I remain in the closet I don't deserve any credit but watch this space!

29. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270631 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2008 at 11:24 am

qomack

Actually, it is supposed to be thinner than a hair and sharper than the cutting edge of a sword for everyone. Depending on how virtuous you are you'll either run across, be dragged on your face or fall because of some clasp devices that try to throw you off your balance.

Of course no one knows how virtuous you need to survive unscathed.

Please refer to Ibn Katheer's explanation of Mary 71 and 72 for more details.

30. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270569 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2008 at 9:44 am

qomack

You cannot separate religion from culture

Certainly not in Bangladesh. Without the presence of a competing culture such as Coptic Christianity in Egypt, Maronites in Lebanon or seculars in Syria that have a mild but important influence on the fabric of society, countries like Saudi Arabia and Bangladesh are likely to stay Islamic forever.

31. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270561 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2008 at 9:35 am

Al

A lot of native Gulf, Levantine or Sudanese-Egyptian Arabic speakers like myself find it hard to decipher the Western accents unless they are spoken really really slow.

I have no idea how some of you guys can even learn the language, let alone study Maliki literature instructed by teachers who speak such difficult accents such like those in Mauritania, Morocco or Algeria!

EDIT: did not intentionally think I'd want to group you with Hamza Yusuf, I'm sure you'll understand !!!

32. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270546 by Vinelectric on October 24, 2008 at 9:19 am

Layla Nasreddin

I took all of this on board as a child (it's only early teens when you start to really "get it").

However the straw (steel beam, rather) that broke the camel's back was the punishment of the grave and the "walking on the siraat" test. You can be the most devout Muslim on earth but there is no escaping those. Initially the fright drove me further into religion and I became a Wahhabi but there came a point when the fear and passion burned themselves out.

Afterall it seemed like a losing battle. There is no guarantee that whatever you did will land you in the Jannah without the scorches of hell as you rope-walked over it or scars from the angry "angels" that whip you up on the grave interrogation for muttering your answers.

33. Dare we stand up for Muslim women?

Comment #270085 by Vinelectric on October 23, 2008 at 4:21 pm

Lucas

I would be even more sympathetic if some of these women stood up for themselves at some point. And I also understand why they can't.

I'm assuming that the concept and the effect of submission in Islam runs much deeper than you think. The will is subverted by the core teachings of the religion.

Challenging men would be challenging the deity's code of conduct. After a good brainwashing, from an early age, that becomes unthinkable. Muslim children start learning hardcore Meccan suras by heart at the tender age of seven or eight when they are introduced to the verses that talk about god feeding boiling pus to those who disobey.

Especially if you live in a desolate place like Bangladesh with a short life expectancy. You don't want to take chances with your "future" afterlife because that is your only hope out of the living nightmare you find yourself in.

34. Video Game Pulled Due to Qur'an Quotes

Comment #266472 by Vinelectric on October 19, 2008 at 3:07 am

Layla, Beyon Belief and felandth,

Have you also noticed that a non-believing "Nasreddin" is also ironic!

35. Death for apostasy?

Comment #266461 by Vinelectric on October 19, 2008 at 2:31 am

Ever heard of Salman Rushdie?

Anways, here is a famous quote from the Bukhari text (Book 84, Hadith 57)

Narrated by 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

This is mainstream Muslim opinion. However the fact that the death penalty is not enforced is simply because the Sharia is enforced in only three countries in the region. Even so, the apostate is guaranteed everlasting hell fire an none of their good deeds (e.g giving in charity) can redeem them.

36. Video Game Pulled Due to Qur'an Quotes

Comment #266322 by Vinelectric on October 18, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Thaks Layla,

I won't ask how you know any of this so I'll make my own assumptions (she must be...oh..no.. not that..!)

I don't know why I never made the connection with the Fairouz hymn. Her Good Friday collection is superb.

37. Video Game Pulled Due to Qur'an Quotes

Comment #266306 by Vinelectric on October 18, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Layla Nasreddin

I've thought we should get Madonna to sing Qur'an verses

She's done it already on a track called "Erotica".
Listen at apprximately 3:54 where she starts singing "Allaahh" in a suggestive Meccan-Muezzing style voice.

I still can't believe it went unnoticed!

EDIT: track time changed from 4:01 to 3:54

38. Video Game Pulled Due to Qur'an Quotes

Comment #266286 by Vinelectric on October 18, 2008 at 2:41 pm

Just think about this for a moment guys.

These verses are the sort of thing you grow up listening to as a child born to a Muslim family. Day in, day out. By the time you reach early teens part of your brain is worshipping death all the time, in the form of a faint but constant stream of fatalism that permeates the fabric of every thought you make. Is that not criminal?

RD is right about religion being child abuse in more ways than he originally intended in that documentary.

39. Volcanic lightning may have sparked life on Earth

Comment #266142 by Vinelectric on October 18, 2008 at 4:15 am

Sigmund

the term 'on the contrary' is usually reserved for situations where....

Let's try again:

If you actually read my post you will notice that I didn't suggest RNA as the initial stage of life.

Neither did I.

We are both discussing RNA precursors. You're arguing against peptide precursors and I linked an article that argues for peptide precursors.

This is an ongoing argument so let's just leave it at that without making any bold assertions please.

40. Volcanic lightning may have sparked life on Earth

Comment #265941 by Vinelectric on October 17, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Sigmund

We now realize that it is a huge mistake to think in terms of amino acids and proteins - these are part of modern life but were very unlikely to be important components of the earliest replicating molecules.

On the contrary, RNA oligomers are very susceptible to hydrolysis and it is thought that the primordial conditions could not have supported the production of significant amounts of poly-nucleic acids.

One scenario that I've come across is that the RNA world was preceeded by replicating units based on more robust genetic components that resembled nucleic acids in structure but lack the ribose backbone.

Interesting candidate molecules include the so called "Peptide Nucleic Acids", such as this polymer of Amino-ethyl glyceine which mimics the helical structure of DNA. Please see this interesting discussion published last year in Chemistry and Biodiveristy.

The model is far from perfect but, to the best of my knowledge, the essential role of proteins in the origin (and, of course, the propagation) of life remains topical in discussions on Abiogenesis.

Nielsen PE. Chem Biodivers. 2007 Sep;4(9):1996-2002

41. [UPDATED] Richard Dawkins on Harun Yahya's Atlas of Creation

Comment #265726 by Vinelectric on October 17, 2008 at 8:36 am

Al:
let's try, entertaining guests?

They seem to be marking territories all the time, urinating all over the place !

42. [UPDATED] Richard Dawkins on Harun Yahya's Atlas of Creation

Comment #265714 by Vinelectric on October 17, 2008 at 8:29 am

From the online New Scientist to Yahya's fans:

The Miller-Urey flash task experiment was recently revisited at a Californian Institute and 11 more amino acids were positively identified.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn14966-volcanic-lightning-may-have-sparked-life-on-earth.html

43. The Joke's on Him: Bill Maher could use a lesson in civility from Michael Moore

Comment #265585 by Vinelectric on October 17, 2008 at 4:17 am

Roy_H

In the name of the Father and the Son, into the hole he goes.....

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH..........!
Brilliant
Thanks a million.

44. [UPDATED] Richard Dawkins on Harun Yahya's Atlas of Creation

Comment #264732 by Vinelectric on October 15, 2008 at 5:53 am

"Show me a Fronkey !

I'm on a public library and making a fool of myself with hysterical laughs here!!!!

45. Ricky Gervais and The Archbishop Of Canterbury

Comment #264502 by Vinelectric on October 14, 2008 at 3:05 pm

I like the "refusing to receive God's forgiveness".

Actually, I try hard not to feel deeply offended when someone insults your intelligence in this manner.

46. Richard Dawkins at Conservative Party Conference 2008

Comment #264303 by Vinelectric on October 14, 2008 at 5:35 am

Styrer-

Comment #264275 by mark65 on October 14, 2008 at 3:11 am

All i see on this board is the same mindset names trampling down anyone not of the same view.

Good post.

Styrer

So you think that is different to you cursing people off at the first hint of a disagreement and singing their praise when their opinions align with yours?

Double standards mate, double standards.

And to in response to mark65:

You take your "bollocks PC" cliches to any of those threads and see if your logic stands up to scrutiny. Sorry, you only score points if you can put forward convincing arguments in favour of your stance not by being a relentless hot-head.

47. Richard Dawkins at Conservative Party Conference 2008

Comment #264274 by Vinelectric on October 14, 2008 at 3:08 am

So who the fuck are you, shit for brains?

Styrer-

I wasn't aware of your petition to bring Fanusi back. I've emailed him to say that there's been an unhealthy atmosphere of agreeability and cuddliness on the forum since his departure. A bit of dissension always makes the debate more interesting but, man, you're a bit of an overkill !

48. Religion vs science: can the divide between God and rationality be reconciled?

Comment #263618 by Vinelectric on October 12, 2008 at 3:09 am

Oystein Elgaroy

Talking about quarks, it's the Trinity-in-unity, God's signature at the core of existence !!

EDIT: I used to be taught that we circle the Qa'ba at Mecca just as electrons orbit the nucleus. Both are forms of worship and thus Islam is the mother of all science.... @-)

49. Heavy Metal-Eating 'Superworms' Unearthed in U.K.

Comment #263034 by Vinelectric on October 10, 2008 at 5:52 am

Telic

Worms tend to lie at the bottom of the food chain. Larger animals eat them and, in this case, may end up dispersing the metallic products through a successive chain of predators. Even outdoor short range firing arms camps are known to run a risk of spreading Lead this way. Imagine how healthy the fauna would be at the "toxic woods" where a waste ground used to be.

I'm just sceptical that this method of recycling can go easily out of control.

http://www.itrcweb.org/Documents/SMART-2.pdf

50. Heavy Metal-Eating 'Superworms' Unearthed in U.K.

Comment #262905 by Vinelectric on October 9, 2008 at 7:05 pm

KRKBAB

There's a village in Wales called: