1. Tales of Hay-on-Wye

Comment #45830 by Carter Maxwell on May 29, 2007 at 11:09 am

Comment #45826 by steve99
"Read what we wrote as pointedly sarcastic, and definitely damning with faint praise!"

Agreed.

2. Evolution Opponent Is in Line for Schools Post

Comment #43205 by Carter Maxwell on May 20, 2007 at 8:08 pm

"We are in a nationwide struggle for the integrity of science education," Professor Miller said, "and any situation that provides an opportunity for the opponents of science education to advance their agenda is a matter of concern."

The problem can't be made any more clear than that. Nice little article.

3. Catholic Church Reconsiders Limbo

Comment #43203 by Carter Maxwell on May 20, 2007 at 8:02 pm

Comment #43199 by MorituriMax
"I thought it was cute."

My thoughts as well. Thank you for being the voice of people who aren't ornery cusses.

4. Educated, Inspired Conservative Christians

Comment #41751 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 8:07 pm

That's the first I've heard the fancy term "substitutionary atonement". Back where I come from, we call it "b.s.".

5. The stone is cast

Comment #41682 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 2:58 pm

LOL. By implying I'm lying, aren't you hatemongererering? I demand an apology. The site's going to hell.

Oops, don't bother -- I gotta take off in about 2 minutes anyway.

6. The stone is cast

Comment #41676 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 2:47 pm

Comment #41567 by Dower
"Good eye, Mr. Maxwell, but actually the word is spelled "hatemonger," without the hyphen."

LOL. Funny thing is, right after I clicked 'Submit', I noticed that, too, and thought, "At least I'm giving him/her something to harp on to save face", so I skipped the editing. Glad I could help.

7. The stone is cast

Comment #41558 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 9:53 am

Comment #41548 by Dower
"Including you, Mr. Maxwell."

Wow. The worst thing I said about him was that he was "someone who has caused much pain and suffering through their bigotry". If that makes me a hate-monger (or, as you put it, a "hate-mongerer") in your world, you need to come back from the Land of the Teletubbies and toughen up a bit. I hate to think of the aneurism you're going to have next time you hear a child call someone a "poopy-head".

Anyway, I don't particularly care if Falwell was likable in person. I think people should be judged for their actions, not their personal charm.

8. The stone is cast

Comment #41540 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 9:09 am

Interestingly, Flynt acknowledged that he learned to like Falwell only upon meeting him. It is not unreasonable to infer that, since he hated everything Falwell stood for, he might have said hateful things about him prior to establishing that friendship. And since most of the posters here have not had shared Flynt's experience of meeting Falwell, it is not unreasonable to suppose that their own feelings may have been similarly tempered. After all, Flynt himself suggested that was the key development in his learning to like the man. Therefore, Dower's assertion that it "Seems like Flynt has more decency that a lot of the posters here" is unwarranted and inappropriate.

I probably wouldn't have bothered to point out this baseless claim if Dower hadn't later made complaints about claims made with a lack of evidence. Pot to Kettle: "You are black."

9. The stone is cast

Comment #41484 by Carter Maxwell on May 16, 2007 at 7:16 am

Comment #41440 by jonecc
"We shouldn't be putting abusive, derogatory pieces about Falwell in these discussions, it gives the wrong impression about us."

I don't mind if you want to post it here. I disagree with Dower, and probably because we have a different vision for this website. I don't see it so much as a place to represent atheism to the world, but as a place for atheists to build a sense of community and feel safe is expressing thoughts and feelings that may not be safe to express in the greater, anti-atheist world.

Sure, some of the rants were pretty irrational and hateful, but such venting over someone who has caused much pain and suffering through their bigotry is not entirely misplaced. I am much happier to have people cheer, "Ding, dong, the witch is dead!" than to chant "We should kill that bitch!" before she is dead. Once Falwell was dead, the angry emotional outpourings were not particularly hurtful to him, and the worms will not attack his corpse any more vigorously for having heard our nasty comments.

Granted, I did not read more than a few posts against him, so possibly I missed something particularly vile. Frankly, though, if a friend says to me, about anyone, that they are "glad the *bleep* is dead", I take it less as a sign that my friend is a horrible person, and more of a sign that my friend had anger and hurt that they internalized while the person was alive. I think generally it is healthy to finally let it out amongst friends. If friends and family of Falwell are visiting this site this week, I have to wonder at what they were expecting to find -- songs of praise in his honor?

I can see the merit in the argument for representing us on this forum as respectful and gracious, even upon the death of a brutally immoral man. I too would like it if people could come here and go away thinking how saintlike we atheists are. But I value this space as a safe community forum for atheists more than I value it as a place for theists to come to see how wonderful we all are.

10. The Creation Museum: Prepare to believe

Comment #41032 by Carter Maxwell on May 15, 2007 at 11:25 am

Comment #41028 by Bizarro Dawkins
"Hehe, a few hundred of that came from me ;-)"

Gol darn money changers.

"But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea [or Kentucky] flee unto the mountains" Mark 13:14

Looks like Mark anticipated this museum. I'll be fleeing to Mount Improbable, and hopefully a refuge of reason.

11. Among the Disbelievers

Comment #40584 by Carter Maxwell on May 14, 2007 at 2:43 pm

Comment #40565 by hughlomas
Religion claims to have all the answers already, why would it be interested in an "endeavor to stimulate inquiry"?

Well, there are always those pressing questions like, "How many angels fit on the head of a pin."

12. Kirk Cameron Proves That God Exists

Comment #40030 by Carter Maxwell on May 12, 2007 at 6:35 pm

Comment #39873 by NMcC
"It's not that easy to sit on a platform like that and be as calm and collected and strong-voiced as you would be if only speaking to a group of friends in the pub. She was probably nervous and this might have affected her delivery style..."

You announced your disagreement with my criticism, but nothing you went on to say was inconsistent with my own feelings. I, too, applaud Kelly's courage and willingness to do this debate. (I still can't handle her voice in this video, though.)

But I loved your adage about fools asking questions of wise men. That's a great one that I'd never heard. Oh, all the times I could have used it!

13. Unintelligent Design

Comment #39916 by Carter Maxwell on May 12, 2007 at 9:20 am

Comment #39879 by Audley Strange
Comment #39887 by Jack Rawlinson

I, like both of you, took immeditate issue with that "Science is not particularly well-suited..." remark. That was just the third sentence, and it was so absurd that I lost interest in the rest of the article. I read on just long enough to make sure I hadn't simply misunderstood him, but alas, I had not. Just another load of foolishness in the "separate fields of inquiry" vein.

14. The Case Against Intelligent Design: The Faith That Dare Not Speak Its Name

Comment #39886 by Carter Maxwell on May 12, 2007 at 7:20 am

One more good reason why I will never let my subscription to The New Republic lapse.

15. Kirk Cameron Proves That God Exists

Comment #39854 by Carter Maxwell on May 12, 2007 at 5:32 am

I couldn't even make myself finish watching. Not only did I find myself disappointed and bored with the theists pathetic rehashings of old, discredited 'proofs', but I found Kelly's voice unbearable. It had that high nervous crack to it that continually reinforced my sense that I was watching the 'Amateur Hour' version of the god debate.

16. Sam's Flea!

Comment #39589 by Carter Maxwell on May 11, 2007 at 8:18 am

Comment #39389 by Rob Slane
"Why on earth wouldn't you accept this?"

Gosh, all kinds of reasons spring to mind why this might not be a good deal:
1. We (the rebels) were more moral than the king and thus were right to resist his rule.
2. The "sin" against the king wasn't a moral wrong, in the sense of causing harm.
3. The king had consistently betrayed our trust in the past, and showed no sign of changing his ways.
4. The 'blessing' is illusory.
5. The king is illusory.

I question the appropriateness of your analogy, because it is set up to suggest that none of these variables apply, but in regards to the real life issue under discussion, they all fit.

Well, I guess it's pretty obvious that #3 is true if and only if #5 is false, and it is overwhelming likely that #5 is true.

17. Anderson Cooper interviews Christopher Hitchens

Comment #39487 by Carter Maxwell on May 10, 2007 at 9:42 pm

Comment #39460 by John P
"Someone said that a British accent adds 50 points to one's perceived IQ.

I knew an Australian girl who acknowledged that her accent sounded unusually English. I mentioned that she sounded very intellectual to Americans, and asked her how we sounded to her. She said we sounded a bit dim-witted.

Fortunately, she could still bring herself to sleep with someone who sounded like a dimwit.

[Everyone go tip a few pints, and I'm sure you'll be able to convince yourselves that I've somehow added to the discussion just now]

18. Sam Harris in conversation with Oliver McTernan

Comment #38923 by Carter Maxwell on May 9, 2007 at 1:53 pm

Comment #38873 by IQHQ
"But, the absence of religious extremism isn't going to rid the world of extremism (nor its undesirable manifestations). If this is so, then why is it so urgent to eradicate it?"

Maybe I'm not entirely following your point. It sounds like your making an argument equivalent to, "If putting your finger in just one hole of a leaky dike isn't going to completely stop all the leaks, why is it so urgent to put your finger in it?" If that is a reasonable representation of your position, I would answer, "Because we are in danger of drowning, we have to start somewhere, and this huge hole seemed like a good thing to plug first."

You say that ending religious extremism won't rid the world of extremism, but that is broad enough that I can't figure out exactly how to address it. Presumably you're thinking of 'extremisms' like extremist political views, extremist economic theory, etc. I'm more interested in identifying a specific problem, addressing it's cause, and making the world more livable as a result. I acknowledge that religious extremism isn't the ONLY problem to be addressed, but that doesn't make it non-urgent. The age of nuclear weaponry makes it urgent regardless of how you might rank it amongst the issues we face.

19. Sam Harris in conversation with Oliver McTernan

Comment #38865 by Carter Maxwell on May 9, 2007 at 11:04 am

Comment #38860 by IQHQ
"The real argument is about religious literalism and extremism (as pointed out by Oliver McTernan)."

That the biggest problem, but not the root cause. I can't imagine a scenario in which religious extremism and literalism will be effectively ended unless the root cause is addressed, and that cause is a belief that some ancient, horrifying texts are the literal word of God. And a natural way to address that false belief is to attack the necessary false belief that underlies it -- that God exists.

20. Sam Harris in conversation with Oliver McTernan

Comment #38862 by Carter Maxwell on May 9, 2007 at 10:50 am

Comment #38855 by devolved
"Did you hear about the atheist who believed he existed without any supernatural means of support? How deluded can you get?"

The God As Jockstrap argument is a totally new one to me. I love it. Let's hope all the theists make it their rallying cry.

21. Hitchens, Sharpton and Faith

Comment #38818 by Carter Maxwell on May 9, 2007 at 8:36 am

I haven't had a chance to listen to the debate yet, but this synopsis is pretty interesting. Sharpton was reasonable and correct to say that Hitchens' complaints about religion do not in anyway refute the existence of God. But I was fascinated by Sharpton's refusal to defend the bible. If atheists can convince enough people to stop defending the bible, because it is, on the whole, an absurd and indefensible document, then we will have made enormous strides toward a more humane, rational world. The further step of convincing them to give up their belief in a fictional supernatural being will just be the icing on the cake.

22. Atheist offers to send letters post-Rapture

Comment #38799 by Carter Maxwell on May 9, 2007 at 8:00 am

I haven't figured out why he gets hate mail on this. Obviously, he is being facetious, which is probably irritating to true believers, but if the rapture really comes, then he'll be stuck providing a service under who-knows-what kind of conditions. Maybe the people sending hate mail feel he is exploiting the fools who believe in this rapture stuff, but $4.99 isn't exactly going to force a gullible grandma into giving up her meds.

23. The New Atheists loathe religion far too much to plausibly challenge it

Comment #38254 by Carter Maxwell on May 7, 2007 at 10:27 am

Comment #38245 by Logicel
"I am forwarding a scan of the 100% proof label from the empty whiskey bottle as evidence of my conversion."

I demand proof, too. Send me the full bottle you didn't need to use while reading TGD. ;)

24. The New Atheists loathe religion far too much to plausibly challenge it

Comment #38249 by Carter Maxwell on May 7, 2007 at 10:22 am

I think everyone's probably making a bit too much of her "with proof" remark. She's clearly being facetious. From her perspective, this was a easy poke in the ribs to atheists, who are viewed as being obsessively concerned with 'proofs'. She probably doesn't understand that it is much more accurate to say we are obsessively concerned with evidence, as well we should be.

25. Atheists go on the political offensive in God-fearing US

Comment #37996 by Carter Maxwell on May 6, 2007 at 3:43 pm

Comment #37982 by Bizarro Dawkins

"...people like myself can show the public that one can be an intellectually fulfilled Christian.
"

I don't think there was ever any doubt about that. The concern isn't that they can't be intellectually fulfilled, it's that they shouldn't be. It's like an anorexic convincing themselves they are full.

26. Martin Amis reviews The Islamist: Why I Joined Radical Islam in Britain, What I Saw Inside and Why I Left by Ed Hussain

Comment #37984 by Carter Maxwell on May 6, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Comment #37980 by knox
"Yet another self appointed prophet proved wrong."

You're a self-proclaimed Christian, so it's a bit ridiculous to pretend that you actually have a problem with self appointed prophets who are proved wrong -- they provided the foundation of your faith.

But I'm pleased beyond measure if I was proven wrong about your response. Of course, that was part of my intent -- to shame you into a displaying a modicum of intellectual integrity. Your typical intellectual dishonesty is so exasperating that reading your posts is normally worse than listening to the worst parts of an Alberto Gonzales testimony. I'm glad if my remark had the desired effect -- self-negating prophecies are just as useful as self-fulfilling ones. I'll plug my nose and check out this most recent post to see if that's what actually happened.

[Edit: Ha! I knew he couldn't leave the "damn sandwich" remark alone:

"Actually making a sandwich is a Christian act – although admittedly making a 'damn' one may be a secular act.

Maybe I'm even better at prophecy than I guessed! Well, before I get too excited, I have to remind myself that I am dealing with our most predictable poster, so it was easy.]

27. Martin Amis reviews The Islamist: Why I Joined Radical Islam in Britain, What I Saw Inside and Why I Left by Ed Hussain

Comment #37913 by Carter Maxwell on May 6, 2007 at 8:32 am

Comment #37853 by Robert Maynard
"Making a damn sandwich is a secular act."

In his unceasing efforts to ignore the main thrust of an argument, I will not be in the least surprised if David comes back with a long dissertation on how making a "damn" sandwich actually is an explicitly religious act, since it requires the act of damning the sandwich.

He will then either ignore the rest of your argument, pretending that he has just effectively refuted it, or begin searching for some other sentence fragment he can focus on in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance brought on by confronting the entire body of thought.

28. Martin Amis reviews The Islamist: Why I Joined Radical Islam in Britain, What I Saw Inside and Why I Left by Ed Hussain

Comment #37905 by Carter Maxwell on May 6, 2007 at 7:47 am

Comment #37737 by _J_
"Yeah, sorry. Nothing covert (I'm Jonathan Higgs of Manchester, England)"

With so many people using their real names here, I'm inspired me to finally get rid of my old "Fishpeddler" moniker, which was just a left over from a job I had long ago. Even my dead-fish avatar was a remnant, having nothing to do with a dead faith, but actually dead fish!

Now, after all that re-registering, I have no idea what I was originally going to post. And I see that Robert has posted a magnum opus that probably quite nicely covers whatever I had in mind to say, so I'll just go read through that.