1. Dying of the Light

Comment #260839 by Mark Till on October 6, 2008 at 5:14 am

I think some of you are being a tad unfair here. *hides, doesn't want to be hit*

First, memoirs do tend to be self-indulgent. That's rather the point. And if Julian Barnes fears death, well, there isn't much he can do about it, is there? At least he's being honest. I think we have to be careful not to attack people for being the wrong sort of non-believer.

But then I like his writing, so perhaps I'm biased!

2. Atheism could be science's contribution to religion

Comment #238362 by Mark Till on August 28, 2008 at 3:29 am

Great letter.

There is a fundamental conflict here, one that can never be reconciled until all religions cease making claims about the nature of reality.

Direct hit. Give those men a coconut!

NOMA would only work if religions were the equivalent of The Lord of the Rings - stories about another hypothetical universe, far, far away...

But as soon as you make claims about this universe (that it was the work of an intelligent designer, that God intervenes in material affairs, that such-and-such a miracle happened in such-and-such year) then I'm afraid we have a big overlap.

3. It's no wonder evangelical atheists need to shout so loud

Comment #238346 by Mark Till on August 28, 2008 at 2:59 am

They wonder, for example, where the first gene, selfish or not, came from. Or, if it came from the soup, where did the soup come from? Or the universe as a whole?

When the atheists reply, "The Big Bang," the curious have one more question: what caused the Big Bang?

This casting of believers as curious star-gazers hungry for answers is really quite funny! Is he seriously suggesting that, uh, scientists don't wonder about these things?

I mean, what?

Reading this you'd think religions were nothing more than fora for vague philosophical discussion, rather than sets of very precise answers, plucked out of thin air, based on nothing, that you aren't even allowed to question.

4. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236696 by Mark Till on August 25, 2008 at 5:12 am

Vaal -

Excellent post. Couldn't agree more. There definitely needs to be more noise made against faith schools: a high-profile campaign, with respected names on board, would be much harder to ignore. At the moment, in the UK at least, politicians just point to the OFSTED (school regulatory body) reports, and say the schools are hitting their academic targets. Talk about head-in-the-sand. But I feel this is an issue where, with a bit of effort, some kind of victory could be won.

5. Why Dawkins is right and his critics are wrong

Comment #236665 by Mark Till on August 25, 2008 at 3:18 am

isthatclear -

Please answer my questions if you can. If you don't, my students and I will conclude that you are a bloody liar that tell bloody lies.

YOU have students? Shit... Is there some relief fund we can donate to?

6. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236458 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 4:11 pm

chewedbarber -

345. Why is it that if you advocate strong action to be taken against Imams like those in the videos, you are advised to consider moderate Muslims?

I don't know. Perhaps the confusion arises when you start throwing around terms such as "all Muslims" and "if there was a way to prevent any more muslims..." - and advocating penalties for "people of the muslim faith" when what you mean are those preaching hatred.

Anyway, I'm done. Night-night.

7. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236426 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 3:29 pm

TWP -

In all fairness, I do believe that is because at the beginning of this thread, Fanusi and I weren't discussing the muslims that cherry pick. We were indeed referring to the Islamic leaders and followers that can be found by watching the documentary.

OK then. But these comments made it sound more general:

Fanusi wrote -

It's minor details like this that make me extremely skeptical about the ridiculous idea that we can permit the continued settlement of Muslims in our countries.

TWP wrote -

"Muslims shouldn't be satisfied living in other than the total Islamic state"

Ship them all off to Saudi Arabia then. Really.

No. I really mean it. If there was a way to prevent any more muslims from entering into the United States, I would be all for it.

At this point I do believe that people of the muslim faith should be prevented from holding any sort of political office or power of any kind.

Seemed more general to me.

Fanusi -

Justice, not mercy, is what distinguishes us. Mercy to the guilty is always treason to the innocent. If the guilty don't pay for their evil, it is always the innocent who suffer.

So you're in favour of executing all murderers, rapists, etc.? I'm afraid that sort of rhetoric, to my wussy liberal ears, sounds a little too much like the sort of thing we're fighting against. A little too sure of itself.

8. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236375 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 2:44 pm

Fanusi -

I have no problems with these Muslims. In fact, I think that we need to help them to break completely free of the hideous doctrines of Islam.

So do I. But by winning the arguments, by education, by persuasion. Not by the imposition of draconian penalties.

Showing mercy to the thugs and jihadists and shariah supporters means sacrificing those Muslims who deserve better.

Showing mercy is one of the things that makes us better than the thugs and jihadists. And I'd rather not give them that victory, thanks all the same.

9. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236353 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Fanusi -

Islam is first and foremost a political system.

Perhaps. But as Steve and others have been trying to get across, that doesn't mean every single follower - especially those settled, perhaps born, in the West - agrees with its supposed political aims. What is your attitude to those Muslims who perhaps do cherrypick the best bits, and actually aren't out for world-domination? Because at the moment you don't seem to acknowledge that any such human beings might exist.

10. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236285 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 12:46 pm

Bonzai -

But what if your "freedom of expression" becomes a violation of someone's right not to be "tortured", by your own logic?

You mean the freedom to sing Cliff Richard songs in public places...? Tricky one :)

11. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236273 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Bonzai -

What do you say to those who do think having Mohammad's cartoon shown around is deeply offensive to them like putting their deceased grandfathers' corpse on public display?

Big difference, surely you can see that?

I fully support freedom of speech and writing, including the Danish cartoons. Not publishing them was cowardly. What I don't support is taking one of those cartoons and holding it infront of a prisoner's eyes for the sake of it. That's childish. And pointless. Same as force-feeding pork.

12. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236257 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 12:08 pm

Bonzai -

And by your logic, how is showing Muhammad's face in disrespectful cartoons and broadcast them around not a "torture"?

The equivalent would be forcing a prisoner to draw a cartoon. And again - why?

13. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236249 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 12:02 pm

TWP -

For jesus christ sake let me re-phrase this for all of you jihad terrorist human rights activist out there:

Why sadistic revenge for a jihad terrorist is something to whine about?

What, as opposed to a moderate terrorist? Again, for the reasons I and others have given above.

And yes, I am advocating human rights for jihadists (to paraphrase Robert Bolt's A MAN FOR ALL SEASONS) for my own protection. If it wasn't for human rights and the rule of law, how would we know which side we were on? To repeat for the last time -- it's what separates us.

14. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236184 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 11:04 am

TWP -

Furthermore, please point out to me why sadistic revenge for a jihad terrorist is something to whine about?

Because we're talking about the law. And the law of a civilised, liberal democracy should be above that. It's about setting an example.

Bonzai -

The beauty of this is that it would be "torture" only if the prisoner subscribes to hard core, fundamentalist Islam.

Or is a vegetarian. Or, in fact, subscribes to any form of Islam. Don't forget, as much as we may loathe it, religion isn't illegal.

15. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236159 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 10:14 am

Bonzai -

Sorry, I should have replied. But I honestly don't think it would deter anyone. Certainly not a hardened jihadist, if you'll pardon the expression. If anything it seems to me unnecessarily provocative. And a little sadistic.

16. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236149 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 9:57 am

Locking a jihad terrorist up in a dungeon and feeding them nothing but pork for the rest of their lives is not torture.

But why do it, if not for a kind of sadistic revenge?

17. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236125 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 9:26 am

Bonzai -

Being fed a diet of pork and lard hardly constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment". As far as I know prisons are not obliged to provide meals compliant to inmates' religious requirements.

Once a jihadist has been convicted and sentenced, presumably to life, what exactly are you getting out of force-feeding them pork? I don't understand.

18. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236098 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 8:20 am

TWP -

Although I believe at the beginning of this thread I did mention that I don't believe that we should allow anyone in the place of politics that is a muslim. I know this is a bit of pot and kettle action but given the beliefs of muslims it goes beyond religion. I feel that the objection of muslims in politics is justified.

If I promise not to get all flustered, may I politely disagree?

In the UK, the first ever Muslim peer, Lord Ahmed, last year argued against the wearing of the veil, calling it a symbol of oppression and separation. This year, the Tory Baroness Sayeeda Warsi has said she wants forced marriage to be made a criminal offence, as a kind of domestic violence. This kind of progressive thinking is the ONLY way progress will be made. Banning such people from politics, where they can make the biggest impression, would be a mistake.

EDIT: However, I must add that I profoundly disagreed with Lord Ahmed's reaction to Salman Rushdie's knighthood.

19. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #236058 by Mark Till on August 24, 2008 at 5:31 am

Laurie:

We have to admit that, in large part, the promotion of Western strategic interests in Asia and the Middle East over the past thirty years or so has had the real effect of alienating even moderate Islamic countries from what they see as an intrusive, belligerent ideology: the idea of Western "democracy" and the political and economic agendas concealed within that.

I agree. But unfortunately the scales of public opinion, especially that of the supposed "liberal left", have now tipped the other way. The words "white" and "Western" have become almost exclusively perjorative, and even the mildest criticism of any Middle Eastern regime, or belief system, is considered an assertion of Western hegemony. (Take, for instance, the absurd reaction in some quarters to Azar Nafisi's excellent 'Reading Lolita in Tehran'.) This has to change.

But as for talk of executions and expulsions... isn't this the sort of thing we're supposed to be fighting against? I don't want to trot out Nietzsche's old quote about fighting monsters, but he had a point. I fear this kind of talk - by clearly knowledgeable and articulate people - will only confirm the view that opposing Islam is an extreme position. I would rather double taxes and build a hundred new prisons than bring back the death penalty, even for jihadists. It's a symbolic point, more than anything. It's what separates us.

And I think Steve's right: we have the laws to punish hate-speech and incitement to violence. We just aren't using them, sadly, out of some misguided fear of cultural insensitivity. This also needs to change. But there are small points of light out there - such as the articles of Johann Hari, and the group supported by another Independent columnist, Yasmine Alibhai Brown: "Muslim Women for Secular Democracy".

They're small steps, but they're a start. Because, in the end, education is the only way to change minds. Not extreme minds, granted. But the minds of people who are genuinely reasonable and peace-loving, but who just happen to have been brought up in an intolerant system and know no better. Well - let's teach them better!

20. Kamikaze bacteria illustrate evolution of co-operation

Comment #235724 by Mark Till on August 23, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Joe -

The person who has been brainwashed is yourself and many others on this site who continue to believe in a myth which science has demolished.

The irony of that statement will serve as its own rebuttal.

21. Why Dawkins is right and his critics are wrong

Comment #235449 by Mark Till on August 23, 2008 at 4:47 am

259. -

I think he just likes using the word "pedagogy".

22. Why Dawkins is right and his critics are wrong

Comment #235202 by Mark Till on August 22, 2008 at 2:29 pm

As I see it, Meadon, Professor Dawkins was merely advocating looking at the evidence of evolution with an open mind - against a home-built wall of religious ignorance and defensiveness.

In these circumstances, to accuse him of being a bad teacher is pathetic.

23. The rise of Miliband brings at last the prospect of an atheist prime minister

Comment #234923 by Mark Till on August 22, 2008 at 8:34 am

Re. Jonathan Miller -

Agreed. 'Rough History...' was a classy piece of television, and Miller's conversation with Denys Turner - one of the 'Atheist Tapes' - is a must-watch.

My favourite remark of Miller's was made during an interview with Kirsty Wark, also on YouTube, where he outlines the need to be kind by comparing humanity's situation on Earth to Gericault's 'Raft of the Medusa' painting:

"We're on the Raft of the Medusa - shipwrecked creatures, going nowhere, with no hope of salvation ... and we'd better not eat one another."

24. The rise of Miliband brings at last the prospect of an atheist prime minister

Comment #234480 by Mark Till on August 21, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Another Vince Cable fan here, I must say. One of the few genuinely clear and intelligent voices in British politics. Especially on his home subject of economics.

But Miliband is completely uninspiring. Sadly, a large section of the British public seems to have become so shallow and moronic they'll only vote for people who look young and dress fashionably, regardless of policy or ideas. Depressing.

25. Life Is Short...

Comment #234207 by Mark Till on August 21, 2008 at 1:58 am

Reminds me of that Billy Connolly line about people who say life is short: "What? Life is the longest damn thing anyone ever fucking does!"

26. Bill Maher on Religion

Comment #233729 by Mark Till on August 20, 2008 at 10:52 am

24. -

I too thought the comic book analogy perceptive. God and Satan (Heaven and Hell) are just as self-supporting in a religious narrative as Batman and the Joker are in the narrative of The Dark Knight (which is a stunning film, by the way).

And that's not the only similarity, either...

27. Bill Maher on Religion

Comment #233713 by Mark Till on August 20, 2008 at 10:07 am

Re. 20 -

I know, very annoying to hear Maher agree with that. Atheism isn't an extreme position at all. Not only is there no reason to suppose any religion true, there are plenty of reasons (scientific, historical, philosophical, logical) to suppose all religions false. This isn't a 50/50. It isn't a case of shrugging one's shoulders and saying, "Well, we don't really know..."

Such supernatural claims have no foundation of any kind. Rejecting them is not even a strong position, let alone an extreme one.

28. A flea we missed?

Comment #232370 by Mark Till on August 18, 2008 at 2:29 am

David Robertson:

Why am I not a Muslim? Because I have read the Koran, read the history and examined the evidence and I do not think it is true.

Ah, but they're not the rules of your game, are they? That's what, if argued by others against Christianity, you would call a fundamentalist-materialist reading of religion. "Things aren't black and white, you know. History? Evidence? I have FAITH that Mohammed heard angelic voices," etc.

Very telling how you choose to play the 'evidence' game with other systems of belief, while providing exactly zero evidence for your own. And very dishonest, too.

29. Big-brained Animals Evolve Faster

Comment #230703 by Mark Till on August 15, 2008 at 4:02 am

Re. the original article. Forgive my relative inexperience, but as Steve and irate_atheist have mentioned, couldn't an argument be made the other way: that larger brains actually slow down evolution? Surely intelligence could sometimes make up for physical shortcomings, in the race for survival, whereas a lack of intelligence would bring purely physical characteristics to the fore. Wouldn't natural selection act faster in the latter case? Perhaps this is too simplistic.

30. The God Delusion

Comment #229400 by Mark Till on August 13, 2008 at 2:24 pm

It has been said before, but many religious believers just can't seem to grasp that you can agree with something, like it even, without being "devoted" to it; without any sense of "worship". That you could support an argument, or a world view, based on a reasonable intellectual analysis, rather than unthinking idolatry, is incomprehensible to them. They're not used to it.

31. A Holocaust Denier Hits Manhattan (And Hearts Hitchens)

Comment #219480 by Mark Till on July 27, 2008 at 2:53 am

Hitchens has really been misrepresented here. The trouble is some people can't understand a nuanced point of view. When he supports the Iraq war he's a Zionist neocon; when he defends Irving's right to free speech, or suggests Irving's work might not be ALL bad, he's anti-semitic!

32. George Scales, War Hero and Generous Friend of RDFRS

Comment #111543 by Mark Till on January 15, 2008 at 1:32 am

Dear George,

If only more people had a fraction of your courage - physical and intellectual. All the very best, and thank you.

Mark

33. Jesus ad angers church groups

Comment #100618 by Mark Till on December 19, 2007 at 2:05 am

See the link below for one of the funniest xmas adverts I've ever seen. Needless to say this one generated the most complaints ever received by the Advertising Standards Agency in the UK and was banned. Still a work of genius though.

Ha-ha-ha! I think we can safely list another symptom of the faith meme - "sense of humour becomes badly damaged, or removed entirely, and may require a transplant."

I'm also getting sick of the weasily word "offensive", which one hears seemingly every couple of minutes now. All it means is: "I don't like that." Right. And?

G.K Chesterton said angels can fly because they take themselves lightly. In that case, Sydney Anglican Bishop Glenn Davies must need a crane to get out of bed in the morning. Or possibly a sky-hook...

34. Synthetic DNA on the Brink of Yielding New Life Forms

Comment #99639 by Mark Till on December 17, 2007 at 8:31 am

Wow. No other word for it. The debate over GM crops seems pathetic in comparison!

35. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99305 by Mark Till on December 16, 2007 at 9:39 am

Do you reckon it'll take more than a week to build...? Including a rest, obviously.

36. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99278 by Mark Till on December 16, 2007 at 8:40 am

I wonder whether councils would allow a Holocaust-denial park boasting "two interactive cinemas, a cafeteria, six shops and a television recording studio, allowing it to produce its own Holocaust-never-happened-themed films and documentaries."

Suspect not.

37. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #95922 by Mark Till on December 9, 2007 at 1:28 pm

The Hitler-Stalin argument is really getting tired now. Whether religious or not they certainly weren't acting rationally. Atheism is, for most I suspect, just one inevitable facet of a rational, sceptical mindset. Hitler, Stalin and any other mass murderer you care to mention, were acting upon BELIEFS. And those beliefs were not open to sceptical enquiry. The wider problem is irrational dogma - religion just happens to be responsible for a lot of it.

38. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #95906 by Mark Till on December 9, 2007 at 12:50 pm

"As for that Father Morris - the resident Fox News spiritual guide - amazing to hear him accuse Richard of stepping outside his area of authority! (Adrian T)"

I know. During his debate with Dan Dennett, D'Souza also questioned RD's authority on theology and philosophy, saying, "That's what happens when you let a biologist out of the lab." Yet he doesn't seem to doubt the authority of a hack political writer to make grand claims about theology, philosophy AND science.

39. Former Evangelical Minister Has a New Message: Jesus Hearts Darwin

Comment #95140 by Mark Till on December 7, 2007 at 12:31 pm

Is it just me who finds the idea of a Creator using evolution by natural selection as a means of spreading life completely hideous...?

Evolution is blind, bloody and wasteful. The beauty is that it explains life WITHOUT invoking a Creator; it explains the illusion of design. Add a Creator looking on from the side-lines, like some blood-thirsty voyeur, and it becomes almost repulsive.

And as for his 'creatheist' business...

"It's not a belief system. It is based on what we know, not what we believe." (Dowd's quote from PZ's review)

Sounds like atheism, to me.

40. Islam's Silent Moderates

Comment #95107 by Mark Till on December 7, 2007 at 11:05 am

As AHA has noted elsewhere, "moderate" really means ignoring certain parts of the belief system - cherry-picking the nice bits. In this sense, religions apparently act like homeopathic remedies - the more diluted they are, the better they are for you. Which says a lot about the original ingredient. I don't need to add what else religion has in common with homeopathy...

41. Mitt Romney's Faith In America address (as prepared for delivery)

Comment #94971 by Mark Till on December 7, 2007 at 4:42 am

"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone."

Freedom is slavery!
Ignorance is strength!

I think I feel sick...

42. Bad Faith Awards: Vote for the winner now

Comment #94752 by Mark Till on December 6, 2007 at 12:52 pm

Louise: "I have no difficulty understanding why Dawkins is on the list. His intemperate rantings against religion are probably enough to turn a lot of people who might otherwise be sympathetic off the idea of atheism. There are passages in 'the God Delusion' where he sounds positively derranged."

Yes, personally I found that passage where he advocates beheading vicars a bit strong. But then I'm a peaceful sort of chap.

Seriously, anyone who considers RD, however passionate his views are sometimes put across, a candidate for "most scurrilous enemy of reason"...

Permission to giggle?

43. Fox: 'Atheist Outrage' over holiday 'Tree of Knowledge'

Comment #94569 by Mark Till on December 6, 2007 at 1:58 am

I must admit cringing a bit when I saw those books dangling from its branches. I agree with the sentiment but I'm not sure it came across so well.

A better message might've been to point out that Christmas really isn't a Christian festival - Jesus not having been born on the 25th December, the iconography mostly borrored from paganism, "Mithras", etc., etc.

This was covered in a Christmas episode of Stephen Fry's "QI" in the UK.

44. Nurses Told to Turn Muslims' Beds to Mecca

Comment #94033 by Mark Till on December 4, 2007 at 3:54 pm

They're lucky some patients don't worship the Karma Sutra. Then they would be overstretched.

45. Highway to hysteria

Comment #94017 by Mark Till on December 4, 2007 at 3:28 pm

"See them get on fire for God..."

*gulp*

46. Daniel Dennett Debates Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #92816 by Mark Till on December 1, 2007 at 2:06 pm

The difficulty in debating with D'Souza is that he talks so much rubbish and makes so many ridiculous statements (so loudly) that you really can't reply to him in five minutes. You could write a whole book on his absurdity, and you'd need to.

47. Debate: Ayaan Hirsi Ali vs Ed Husain

Comment #92448 by Mark Till on November 30, 2007 at 2:19 pm

No, I accept that. But even if we did concede a peaceful interpretation was possible, I'm saying it still wouldn't solve the problem.

48. Debate: Ayaan Hirsi Ali vs Ed Husain

Comment #92443 by Mark Till on November 30, 2007 at 2:00 pm

Ed Husain has interpreted the Koran and other teachings in a peaceful way (at least, now he has) which is to his credit. The trouble is, Osama Bin Laden has interpreted it a different way. The rulers in Saudi Arabia, for example, have interpreted it in a different way. This is what happens when you are not allowed to question the belief that the contents of any given book is the indisputable word of the creator of the universe. As Harris says, you become a hostage to what's inside it, and any interpretation of that. That, I think, is the argument that needs to be made.

49. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92432 by Mark Till on November 30, 2007 at 1:41 pm

"So, by these definitions, atheism is an ideology. Each religion is an ideology. That does not mean that atheism is a religion."

Yeah, sorry, "ideology" was the wrong word.

By the way, I hope if the Pope is ever unfortunate enough to fall seriously ill, he will stick to his principles and merely lie down and let God do as it sees fit. I suspect, however, that he will rely on the scientific training of doctors and all the technology at their disposal.

50. Papal encyclical attacks atheism, lauds hope

Comment #92324 by Mark Till on November 30, 2007 at 9:43 am

I'm coming round to Sam Harris's view that the term "atheism" is becoming more of a curse than a strength to us in the cause of rationality. It has been, and is being, twisted and misrepresented as an ideology or belief system in its own right, rather than a mere lack of ridiculous belief. Worrying.