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Comments by Lord Asriel


1. Atheists claim censorship by billboard company

Comment #146484 by Lord Asriel on March 19, 2008 at 6:08 am

I object to any discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sexual orientation etc. The problem is, I am even more opposed to the government telling me what is right and what is wrong.

I am not sure how to solve this dilemma. Perhaps one should take into account how easy an alternative can be found (e.g. here in Switzerland the billboard company has a quasi monopoly so it is not ok to discriminate) and what type of service is denied on a discriminatory basis (e.g. renting out a flat probably needs to be qualified differently to selling flowers). Still it is difficult to draw lines.

2. Dutch lawmaker planning film criticizing the Quran

Comment #91697 by Lord Asriel on November 29, 2007 at 1:53 am

I had this discussion about Islam being more violent in general several times before and I will not have another repetition here. What I see is that Islam has not systematically been more violent than other religions over the ages (sorry, no statistical evidence for that, just my impression based on my modest knowledge of history).

It might be correct now, but I don't see why it should be in general the case for that religion. It is an impossible argument to have as there is a written text that might be compared but what really counts is the interpretation of it. There are thousands of such interpretations out there that mix with cultural questions and socio-economic phenomena. This kind of discussion usually ends up with comparing anecdotic evidence as there are plenty of examples for all sides. Believe me, there is no true Scotsman out there and I will not look for him in this thread.

However, just because this guy picks on one specific religion by appealing to fears in the population I will not become a bedfellow of such an illiberal (in a European political sense), xenophobic and close-minded populist. To give a different example: There are many groups and organisations that attack Judaism too, still I don't want to be associated with most of them.

3. Dutch lawmaker planning film criticizing the Quran

Comment #91496 by Lord Asriel on November 28, 2007 at 1:02 pm

I find this guy scary. I doubt that I agree with him on the goal or the motives. He seems not to be concerned about religion per se, but only about Islam. You cannot ban the Quran and Muslim schools but leave the Christians and Jews alone. And the state should certainly not tell people what they have to believe or think. Funny that he uses the term "Fascist". To claim to fight for freedom by betraying exactly that principle reminds me of the hypocrisy of many of the religious zealots. I am definitely not into "return to the rights of Europe's dominant cultures" and stuff like this.

4. John Templeton's Universe

Comment #79057 by Lord Asriel on October 16, 2007 at 2:13 am

An off-topic remark:

Pos Psych founder Martin Seligman

What a great name for the founder of such an organisation. Shiny happy people indeed (for non German speakers: 'selig' in German means 'blissful', 'overjoyed' or 'blessed').

5. The Religious Right's New Tactics for Invading Public Schools

Comment #77887 by Lord Asriel on October 11, 2007 at 2:58 am

Christianity has always been about converting people to the one true god.

I think that in addition many religious people see subconsciously the inherent injustice when punishing people with everlasting torments just because the 'good message' was not delivered to them. That way you do not have to feel to bad about your neighbour being tortured forever. After all it was him/her who did not want to listen...

6. Bible Belter

Comment #69662 by Lord Asriel on September 12, 2007 at 5:07 am

Northern Bright,

was it this one?

7. Bible Belter

Comment #68377 by Lord Asriel on September 7, 2007 at 3:20 am

Northern Bright wrote:

[..]when he was invited onto a TV programme with an opponent, not for a full-scale debate but for an interview led by the anchorman. Hitchens refused to shut up, refused to let the other side be heard, refused to stop even when specifically requested to do by the anchorman, [...]. When the anchorman asked him to stop, Hitchens replied "You can't invite me to be interviewed and then expect me not to talk."

If you refer to his appearance on Fox after Falewell's death, I think he should be excused. That is the only style appropriate to answer theirs, otherwise you can only lose.

8. They let anybody onto the faculty at Oxford nowadays

Comment #61605 by Lord Asriel on August 6, 2007 at 1:36 am

his name is Yossi (so now, I think not a Frenchman - accent stumped me)

To continue OT:
He might be a native Hebrew speaker (Israeli perhaps). The first name also points in that direction and the accent of Hebrew speakers often has a strong resemblance with a French accent in English.

LA

9. Insurance for Sex Abuse: A policy tailor-made for the Catholic church

Comment #58183 by Lord Asriel on July 23, 2007 at 11:52 pm

Cartoon on the topic

10. Kenya: The Death of Religion And Rise of Atheism in the West

Comment #56699 by Lord Asriel on July 17, 2007 at 1:27 am

I had to change planes in Nairobi recently. One of the first books I saw during my short stay in Kenya was a prominently displayed copy of "The God Delusion" in a bookshop at the airport. The author of the above article probably only turned his 'Decadence Detectors' on after leaving his country.

11. A force for evil?

Comment #55451 by Lord Asriel on July 11, 2007 at 6:12 am

I like Orwell's guidelines for political writing (and especially rule #6):

1 Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
2 Never use a long word where a short one will do.
3 If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
4 Never use the passive where you can use the active.
5 Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
6 Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

From "Politics and the English Language" by George Orwell (found here)

12. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32238 by Lord Asriel on April 16, 2007 at 10:24 am

I think we are world citizens. We can think for ourselves. It has nothing to do with coming from Somalia or Norway, etc.

Thanks Ole :-)

13. Kadra attacked in public

Comment #32233 by Lord Asriel on April 16, 2007 at 9:05 am

Many things have been said in other threads already and I am not going to warm the arguments up (FGM is not a typically Islamic tradition; Islam is not naturally more prone to be violent; Cultural relativism is not a black and white question but gradual and therefore you can favour it but oppose FGM at the same time; etc.).

If the best people can come up with in response to such an article is 'civic exams for immigrants' I think this is sad. If I want to discuss immigration I can go somewhere else (btw I am convinced that most of my compatriots would fail such an exam). This site is according to my understanding about reasoned arguments on religion and faith and not an anti-immigration platform. In general posters in this thread seem simply to be picking on a common enemy and not really making arguments.

I see more and more a 'with us or against us' mentality which does not belong into a 'Clear thinking Oasis'. It is a pity because there were often very thoughtful, sophisticated and good comments on this site. I am sure those people are still around. Unfortunately not in this thread.

LA

P.S.: Of course what happened is disgusting and abhorrent. I don't think anyone here questions that.

14. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #31526 by Lord Asriel on April 13, 2007 at 5:46 am

I expressed myself imprecisly for the sake of the 'job description' image. Infallibility is not a requirement for the post but it is assumed as given whenever the Pope exercises his office.

However, I do not think that this changes much of my argument. If someone is assumed to be infallible I cannot imagine how a human being could ever be fit for such a position if one applies strict criteria (we might discuss some day in another place what that implies for earthly leaders who can push the red button and decide over nuclear anhilation).

The point was made before and I agree with it: Membership in the Hitler Youth movement 60 years ago does not make you a bad person today. If you dislike the Pope as a person and/or his office (and there are many reasons to do so) I think in all fairness this is not the argument to put forward. Saying that his position requires a different qualification of his life to me is in this case more a critique of the 'job description' than of his CV.

15. Pope says science too narrow to explain creation

Comment #31500 by Lord Asriel on April 13, 2007 at 2:11 am

@Ian
I don't think that any human being lives up to the standards for a job that implies infallibility. I have the impression that the job description is what you want to criticize not the Pope's CV.

16. Was there ever dog that praised his fleas?

Comment #25437 by Lord Asriel on March 13, 2007 at 5:53 am

A slightly off-topic remark:

Although you will forgive me for asking this – why quote them in German? Am we meant to be impressed by your ability to quote German? Would it impress you if I wrote the biblical quotes in Hebrew and Greek? I think we can work out for ourselves that Hitler spoke German!
I think it is more a matter of transparency than an attempt to show-off that stevencarrwork quotes in German. At least I think it would be polite to assume this, instead of accusing him of the latter.

I am sure that those who have knowledge of German appreciate to have the quotes in German. I consider it as very useful especially in view of mistranslations/interpretations of the bible. I would love to be able to verify translations from Hebrew and Greek of the Bible (but I cannot).

17. 1986 Oxford Union Debate

Comment #25407 by Lord Asriel on March 13, 2007 at 1:20 am

I am amazed how little the creationist arguments have changed since then.

The absence of development in their argument struck me too.

I think it illustrates well that it is not a scientific debate they are interested in and that they are lacking real arguments. I have never experienced a scientific debate so inert that arguments do not progress for over 20 years (or should I say 2000 years?)!

Interestingly, the only important change (from 'creationism' to 'ID') occurred not to improve the argument but was legally inspired (and still the arguments didn't change much).

I was surprised by the high number of favourable votes. Was it just due to the way the two sides mobilised or is it in any way representative for time and place of the debate?

18. Public Acceptance of Evolution

Comment #24870 by Lord Asriel on March 9, 2007 at 1:45 am

I have seen it, but there are other studies that include Canada and Australia and we are pretty well up there. We are secular societies but we have to watch it.


That's what I thought of Switzerland too :-/

I am quite shocked. It looks as if we are below 60%

19. How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam

Comment #24865 by Lord Asriel on March 9, 2007 at 12:43 am

Phyllis Chesler might say things that are true about what Islam can be. But before making her a 'great voice of reason' just because she is saying what you want to hear I think it is worth considering if she is as 'reasonable' when it comes to other beliefs. She seems to be a religious Jew (at least it appears as if this is the case in articles like this one on her website).

I think this is what bothers me with many critiques of Islam nowadays: There is often a double standard applied. You can accuse me of cultural relativism if you want but as many other posters here regularly point out, all the problems mentioned in the article above are not specific to the Muslim faith but are a consequence of religious beliefs.

20. She's No Fundamentalist: What people get wrong about Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Comment #24861 by Lord Asriel on March 9, 2007 at 12:00 am

@MelM: Bruckner is part of the debate I mentioned in post #24663 (No. 3 in this thread). There were also other thinkers defending her in that exchange. I really think it is worth to follow that debate and to check out the link. It is a discussion that regularly pops up on this site too.

21. She's No Fundamentalist: What people get wrong about Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Comment #24703 by Lord Asriel on March 8, 2007 at 6:00 am

But there is a practical distinction, a distinction for consequences to the sum total of human happiness, prosperity, and long-term prospects

I am not sure if such a collective approach to happiness is a good moral guide. I think individual freedom should serve as a better moral compass.
Unfortunately all too often cultural relativism is equated with a kind of absolute relativistic approach. For me it represents more the result of a sceptical approach, questioning the own cultural baggage too. I do not know anyone who would conclude an 'anything goes' from such an approach. To me this argument sounds similar to the accusation 'all atheists are nihilists'.

However, as soon as the word 'absolute' is used, sceptics should be alert. It always smells of dogmatism and/or religion.

22. She's No Fundamentalist: What people get wrong about Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Comment #24663 by Lord Asriel on March 8, 2007 at 12:51 am

The article by Timothy Garton Ash and Ian Buruma mentioned above sparked an interesting international debate which you can find here in English (for German speakers: some contributions are in German and you can find them here)

23. The God Delusion

Comment #21852 by Lord Asriel on February 11, 2007 at 8:04 am

I think Orr's original discussion of TGD (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19775 for those who haven't read it yet) is not unfair, although I don't agree with him. I think the main problem is that he expected the book to be something that it was not meant to be. I think in his reply he summarises well his critique:

I have no problem with where Dawkins arrived but with how he got there.

24. [Warning: Graphic] Children's foreheads slashed in Muslim saint's name

Comment #20010 by Lord Asriel on January 31, 2007 at 4:08 am

I found the article surprisingly balanced. You just need to read everything (and not just what confirms what you think to know anyway).

Lebanon's top Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, has banned bloodletting during Ashura, even for adults.
Clerics in mainly Shiite Iran forbid it as well, saying the practice is un-Islamic because it harms the body.

So it seems to be a minority within a minority amongst Muslims. Unfortunately there is no indication how common this practice is and makes the story therefore somhow anecdotical (still shocking though).

As it was said before: It shows what people are capable to do in the name of religion. What it does not show is that Islam is worse than other religions. A conclusion many seem to be very quick to adopt reading this kind of stories. I think some more nuances can be expected at least here on this forum.

25. Young, British Muslims 'getting more radical'

Comment #20000 by Lord Asriel on January 31, 2007 at 3:29 am

If anyone is interested here are the results in detail:

http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2007_01_09_policy_exchange.pdf

I found the results much more differentiated than the article presents them.

I wonder who exactely qualified as 'Muslim' for the poll and if this had an impact on the result.


@MouthAlmighty: Your Qur'an fake is hillarious *lol*
@hmsbeagle3: Can I get Gin and Tonic on Beta Centauri? If yes, I am in!

26. Young, British Muslims 'getting more radical'

Comment #19652 by Lord Asriel on January 29, 2007 at 5:36 am

I agree with the posters opposing TheCodeCrack.

In addition the problem with your 'solution', TheCodeCrack, is that it is discriminatory but the discrimination is not made on the basis of what you want to fight (i.e. extremism, irrational believes, etc.). Let alone the problem of proportionality of such a measure. It would not be dignified and be in contradiction with basic human rights.

It is also fundamentally in contradiction with important values (which for me are related to atheism) which are in my opinion often trashed by religious zealots (e.g. Freedom of speech, freedom of belief, individualism).

I am not sure if your radical 'suggestion' is a serious idea of yours or if it is just intended to provoke. If the former is the case I agree that it is immature.

P.S.: Besides the problem of how the question was asked, polls usually reflect an opinion at a specific moment in time. The results might be very different in six months from here. Do we get them back, then?

P.P.S.: Freedom of belief does not mean freedom from having your belief challenged. Just to avoid misunderstandings here... :-)

Typos edited

27. Do You Believe in Magic?

Comment #18973 by Lord Asriel on January 24, 2007 at 5:33 am

Joadist,
I think magical thinking is very often more than just 'bad science' and inherently irrational. The article seems to agree with that view.

'It is of interest to note,' Dr. Keinan concluded, 'that persons who hold magical beliefs or engage in magical rituals are often aware that their thoughts, actions or both are unreasonable and irrational. Despite this awareness, they are unable to rid themselves of such behavior.'

But I think we agree on the basics. My comment was not meant to be critical of your post but aimed more at providing a slightly different viewpoint on the same distinction. Perhaps we should just say that if magical thinking is 'bad science', religion is worse as it is 'bad magical thinking' :-)

Lord Asriel

28. Do You Believe in Magic?

Comment #18958 by Lord Asriel on January 24, 2007 at 1:54 am

Joadist wrote:

2: I do not change my socks because I believe that my actions can influence God to alter the outcome of the game.

You could also simply call it 'doing magic by proxy'. The underlying principle remains the same.

29. Christian Shrine Needs Two Exits, Israel Says

Comment #17840 by Lord Asriel on January 17, 2007 at 1:40 am

"You'd expect a church to be more intelligently designed."

Of course it IS intelligently designed.
The designer simply knew that there will never be a fire!