1. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #74119 by lane on September 27, 2007 at 9:39 am

Revcort:

I'm so happy that God revealed to you the destructive nature of some of your comments. As I was reading along, I was starting to get real disturbed with some of the way you were representing God to unbelievers.

I, myself, got caught up in commenting on here a few weeks ago and I felt, like you did, that I was starting to practice a bit of idolatry. Making God into what I wanted him to be, instead of what he really is. I guess that's just a danger that we Christians face when we start to enjoy the argument more than the purpose for which we argue.

I resolved to limit my comments to the effects my devotion to Jesus Christ has made on my life. I can speak with absolute authority on that issue and that, for me, is the best way to witness to unbelievers. Maybe theological scholars are equipped with the technical information that atheists are requiring before they will entertain a relationship with Christ. But for me its a simple matter of Jesus having won over my heart.

But most of what you said I believe to be real and true. I just hope that you will keep in mind that God wants us to represent him with a kind and understanding heart. Be extremely patient with unbelievers because you don't know which one of them he may be just about to choose to reveal himself to.

2. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67233 by lane on September 2, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Thanks for defending me walk.

Just to show you how out of place I am here, I still can't figure out what is wrong with the phrase "super-fun" or "hurts my heart." I mean, I guess "hurts my heart" was a little over-emotional but I did feel something when I read Dr. Benway's last post that made me something more than sad.

And with regard to "super-fun" you guys have obviously never seen my 2 1/2 year old son wind up to throw a baseball. Believe me, fun is not nearly descriptive enough.

But I'm resigned to the fact that my time here has probably run its course. I want to leave you with the promise that I do genuinely respect you and don't think you're that much different than me at all. Of course you know I feel you are missing out on a relationship with God, but that is something that I can't really help with other than tell you what a difference he's made in my life. Its all I can really talk about with any authority. I think you can tell I'm not exactly a scholar.

walk, I have read all of the bible. Not in one sitting cover to cover, but different books at different times. I do think it is all completely accurate and trustworthy. Now whether or not its literal or symbollic is a more difficult question. I think its like the parables that Jesus told. It can be taken as completely accurate with no harm. But was there a naked couple named Adam and Eve in a garden eating one too many apples? I'm not sure if that is meant literally or symbollic of the state of man that was not content with perfection as God had created our earthly existence. I try to read the bible as entirely literal because I just think its safer and you get more from it than worrying about which parts should be taken literally.

One interesting thing that happened while I was reading Leviticus. I was bored out of my mind as I was reading about the 1500th different ritual that had to be performed for the 1900th different misdeed. I remember asking God, what could you possibly be trying to tell me with this ultra boring detail. I got so bored I just nearly gave up. And then it hit me.

God gave all this detail to show what lengths and efforts he would go through to see his people reconciled to him. It just added to the awesome act he would do later when Jesus came to rid of us all the ritual. I think when read like that, taking account of the whole story, the Bible is powerful and compelling and an awesome source of information. When you guys complain about how we're here with no proof left alone by God, I don't feel alone at all, I feel his word is right there to tell me what he wants me to know.

At church today I thought about you guys alot. And I had a good time sharing ideas over the past few days. It was kind of like having a pen-pal from a different country that you wouldn't get a chance to meet in your everyday life.

Thanks.

3. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67095 by lane on September 1, 2007 at 10:13 pm

Dr. Benway:

Thank you very much for what you said. It really means alot to me.

I am very familiar with the Christian personality type that has helped give you a little bit of cynicism. I want you to know that I have about as much patience for the people who come and act destructively in your space as Jesus had for the Pharisees. Whenever I witness a Christian acting this way in God's name I act against it very swiftly which can be pretty effective coming from another Christian.

It hurts my heart to think that you once had a relationship with God that you now feel is lost. If over-zealous or aggressive interpretation of the Bible by other Christians helped lead to this then that is also something I regret.

The truth is that none of us Christians can know the mind of God well enough to be in a position to judge for him. I admitted I don't really understand all the aspects of Hell and I struggle sometimes in knowing how God makes certain decisions. I think of good people that due to geography or nationality don't have the same opportunity to know Jesus in the way I do. We really just have to fall back on the things we do know about God. He is loving and worthy of our trust.

So while I completely believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I simultaneously believe that God handles these other disadvantaged people in some fair way. I know this is the kind of contradiction that unbelievers will point to as flaws in our logic. But I just think the question is unable to be answered (by me) and God expects me to have the strength of faith not to let this lack of knowledge pull me away from him.

Thank you very much for the link. I intend to study it and I will respond.

This dialogue has been very helpful and interesting to me.

4. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #67074 by lane on September 1, 2007 at 5:15 pm

walk:

Bonzai kind of wrote my first paragraph for me. I think I do really believe Hell to be more of a seperation from God. When you love him and feel like you need him in your life the thought of going an eternity without him seems downright unpleasant. I don't know if its like the feeling of being burned, but it sounds like something I would rather avoid.

But I would hope you don't accuse me of picking just parts of the bible that I feel sound good. I don't think I do this. I think its more a case of realizing that to me Hell, whatever it is, is off-limits to me. God made sure of that by entering into my world and paving a path for me away from it, whatever it is.

I know you guys don't believe this happened, but to me it is central to everything else I believe. On the tiny chance that I am right that there is a God and that he really did do this for me, what an act he has done on my behalf. In knowing this I am free to worship, love, and trust him on everything else. I respond to this act all the time. So it is a very big deal and I am going to use the fact that you guys asked me about it as motivation to try and learn more about what the bible says about Hell. This way the next time I am asked I can have a better answer to the question.

But one more tiny little observation about eternity. Sometimes I think one of the great benefits to having a relationship with the Creator is that at some point I am going to have answers to the really big questions unknowable in this lifetime. Because of this, I feel somewhat advantaged over you guys who I respect as wanting to know the scientific and technical questions about the universe and everything. It sounds like a small thing, but I have alot of curiosity about these things and I see that as something of a reward I will be given.

5. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66781 by lane on August 31, 2007 at 11:26 am

heathen2:

Interesting point about your close friend and how she was so comforted by her Faith. I have been given a book that I have not yet read that devotes itself to the Comfort that God provides. Called, The God of all Comfort.

You know, I see that God provides so many things to so many people. I think in my brief time here I have told everyone of all the things I am getting from my faith in God. I know there is Guidance, Hope, Comfort, Direction, and several others. I think that is good that God can come and meet us in our needs, no matter what they are. I don't think that means we Christians are being inconsistent. We're just struggling to tell what is happening to us and we want you to believe it is real. We probably shouldn't want you to believe it so badly. Its deeply personal and the truth once proven to ourselves should be enough for us.

I did want to say something about your friend's desires for your children to go to heaven. I think about that stuff too.

I would like nothing more than to be able to order my son to accept Christ. Sorry, if that's too honest, but I see the stakes as so high and I love him so much, I almost can't bare the thought of him missing out on God's love. However, I know that that is really an impossible thing for me to impose. My parents were Christians and my family has a long history of faith. However for my first 27 years I would just say it didn't take. I had to forge my own relationship with God and come to acceptance in my own way.

Earlier someone had worried that I was just a sad individual who has been at the mercy of my upbringing and buying into a comforting story because I wanted it to be true. I think that is just lazy stereotyping of Christians that won't hold up under scrutiny.

I intend to create an environment where my kids can witness my devotion to God. But that is not enough, they are going to have to find him their selves and either accept or reject him of their own freewill. That is how it has to be and I understand that enough to get out of their way when they come to that point.

6. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66768 by lane on August 31, 2007 at 9:04 am

Quetzalcoatl:

Thank you for what you said. I have really enjoyed talking with you guys and I really don't want to be the type of person that comes across as having all the answers. And about your age, I know you have probably achieved much at 24. Just because I'm 10 years your senior, doesn't really make me an authority. I just think about myself at 24 and how so many more of my questions got answered after that age, that I wanted to encourage you to stay open. Which it sounds like you are.

I want to say a bit more about the self-denial, giving God the Glory issue for clarification.

I take your point exactly about cushioning myself for failure and still giving my all when I give God the authority for the decision. I think about this stuff alot.

With this particular business situation, I don't think it is so much that I fear a rejection as much as I just know that he sees my life so much more completely than I do. I think I really trust God. Through 8 years now he has cushioned my falls and provided alternative opportunities when I have experienced failures. I know you guys might think that was my own tenacity. But I just don't see it that way.

Before I started trusting God I stayed too married to individual opportunities and suffered too great a fall when they didn't materialize. Since I started trusting him I find that I still give each opportunity my all, but I bounce back so quickly that I have trouble even remembering my failures.

For the past 6 months I have been taking my son to a super-fun baseball class for toddlers on Saturday mornings. If I get this deal, with my current workload, I'm probably going to have to suspend going to his classes at least for a period of time while I marshal my resources to get it started. You see, I feel like God takes a more comprehensive approach to my life and from his perspective I trust him to know whether I need the added income this deal will bring more than I need to spend those precious hours with my son.

I might still be successful without God at the wheel. But I don't see how I could be nearly as complete a person. And I think I love God so much that I don't care if he gets the credit for my success. I want him to have it more than I want it. If that makes any sense.

7. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66640 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 6:42 pm

Bonzai:

Wow, if I came across as lecturing atheists at all I apologize. I have more respect for non-believers than I think you realize. I think some of your intentions are admirable. You're sceptical and always trying to understand things. That, it seems to me, is the way you should be about things.

But please don't mis-characterize my God as uncaring of people who are suffering. I know that is not true. After he dealt with me and my situation I felt an almost uncontrollable desire to start helping other people. Christians are not the only charitable people - I would never claim that. But from the minute I accepted Christ I noticed that my thoughts stopped centering so much on my situation and I started getting involved.

It seems my God was very smart about that. He put me on my feet and thereby cleared my condition so I could serve others. Kind of a macro-approach to caring for all of his people.

8. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66621 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 3:48 pm

Elli :

I'm going to read this article. I find opposing viewpoints so interesting. I actually read the Blind Watchmaker several years ago as a challenge from one of my good friends. I thought it was interesting just not convincing.

My friend reciprocated by reading the great book by Tony Evans "The Battle is the Lord's" and I got him to watch the Passion of the Christ.

Regarding the Paternal thing. Yes, I want my God to look after me, I know I need him to provide guidance, and he was the only one capable of absolving me of the responsibility for my sins.

I guess this is just what Father's do. I want to do the same for my kids, except the sins part. They're going to have to speak with my father about that!

9. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66600 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 3:08 pm

Elli:

I've shared everything else so I will tell you about my father. I don't know how you'll read it but here goes.

My dad was real involved in my life from birth until 16 when he kind of had a mid-life crisis and left my mother. He moved out of State and I didn't see him much for about 4 years. I was pretty angry with him. But I recall forgiving him and kind of starting our relationship over. Though it was mostly a phone relationship seeing each other just at holidays.

We did stay in touch during those desperate times. Interestingly, during that time on the knees moment when I was 27 I remember calling my dad and letting him know how bad my situation was. I think he was the only other person that knew about my situation.

I can't wait to see what this reveals about me!

10. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66594 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 2:45 pm

Quetzalcoatl :

Thank you for your comments. I really had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started commenting. But everyone has been pretty kind in their disagreements with me.

At only 24 you got a whole lot of life ahead of you. You know from a purely logical point of view doesn't it kind of make sense that you open your mind up to the possibilities of God. I mean just give him an equal shot at your mind as you might for the opposite approach.

It seems like it would cost you about nothing. And even if you choose not to accept him, it seems you would come away with a greater understanding of the people who claim there is something there. Kind of a no-lose situation for a young person like yourself.

I only take issue with one thing you picked out from my comments. That's this whole question of taking the credit for the accomplishments of your life. I think that is truly fool's gold. So often I think young people feel like a Christian life somehow limits their exposure to fun and a good time. And I know with more seasoned unbelievers they think that being a Christian means the end of exploration and discovery. That is just not true.

A Christian life is incredibly fulfilling and kind of liberating in it's self-denial. You know right now I am dealing with a business situation where I have quite a bit of money at stake. I prayed this morning that God pick whether or not I get this deal and I will accept his decision. I was stressed before that prayer and have been at peace since.

If he gives it to me then I'm going to conclude that he thought I was prepared for it. And if he doesn't, then I'm going to conclude that he might have felt it would cause me to spend too much time away from my family.

You see, I'm still an integral part of the deal. I may get it or I may not. But there is no loss of human dignity because I put God in the driver's seat on the deal. I'm still out there giving life my best, I just realize that in the grand scheme of things my little life accomplishments aren't that big of a deal.

My salvation is so much more important to me that I gladly give God the glory for anything I achieve here in my human existence. Again, I only tell this because I think there is a misunderstanding about the amount we Christians are giving up. I give God the Glory and don't feel cheated at all. I think he puts me in interesting life situations when I'm ready for them. Like I would do with my son.

11. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66578 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 1:43 pm

Dr. Benway :

I see it more like this. I have lost my kees in my house and I start looking for them. There are potentially 5000 different places that they could be in. I look and after a while I find my keys. I, understandably, stop looking.

Now, if I want, I can continue looking for my keys after they have been found. I may find other items of interest in those other places. But I'm able to drive to work now. My needs have been met.

I just dont feel either qualified or obligated to defend other religious beliefs. I seem to recall years back scientists were warning of Global Cooling. Now its Global Warming. The fact that they were wrong about Global Cooling doesn't mean that we have no Global Warming problems. I just think sometimes we don't know all the answers and some of these questions are so big that both you and I are taking them on faith.

Regarding the issues of your assault on polyester. I thought my point was good there. I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just think that God has had a profound impact on my life and I felt like sharing it. If everyone's life is running just fine and could not benefit from a relation with God then theres no real grave consequences at stake by me sharing my beliefs.

12. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66567 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 1:01 pm

Elli :

I understand your point. I give the glory to God for the change of my life circumstances when they were no more impressive than others have achieved using human self-improvement techniques.

So, I should get the glory. Where would I go to pick up that glory? How much would it be worth? Where could you go to cash in that glory? Would that glory be worth anything after I am gone?

That is my real problem with devoting my life to this human existence. It's not meaningful enough. It all ends and then there is just nothing. I respect unbelievers for some of their qualities to question things. I wish more Christians would question more because I think some of us can be just too intellectually lazy.

But I guess the promise of an eternity with the God that I have fallen in Love with is just too compelling for me to live without. Everything about this life just seems so temporary and fleeting. I just don't see how anyone could live only for this. I know that probably puts me in Dr. Benway's cross-hairs for creating my own wishes and then living for them.

But I make no apologies. I think it's more a situation where I was created for communion with God and I am coded with a desire to get back in his presence. That sounds like a logical conclusion to this human condition I find myself in.

13. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66551 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 11:39 am

Elli :

Thank you once again for your kindness.

It would be nice to take the credit for my transformation, but honestly I really didn't have it in me. That is the first time I ever shared that story in that way, and I left out all kinds of information about how weak I really was.

That is what makes me so sure that something other than my strength was at work. I think you can see what a difficult thing this is for Christians to share with unbelievers, at least its hard to get others to understand it enough to act on it.

I bet you are a really great person and I'm happy to know that even you brilliant people can be kind and nice.

Thanks

14. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66547 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 11:29 am

Dr. Benway:

I don't really know what to say about the multiple religions and the claims that may have made. I plan to comment on that just as soon as I understand the mechanics of the Big Bang. In other words, I just leave that up to God to sort out. It doesn't seem to me that any of that really matters in my relationship with God.

But, regarding your campaign against polyester. I have an opinion there.

I could easily see myself donating to a cause that you hold important without absolute proof of the correctness of your claims. I know and recall times when I have done just that. Because an important component of my donation might have been witnessing the impact that polyester had on your life. You used to hear great, but now you don't hear so good. Now, maybe you are faking. But maybe it was real. And maybe my life might be changed if polyester was banished.

I know that we are talking right past each other, we have made our choices and you help me recognize what a gift I have been given by God choosing to seek out and save me.

Finally, regarding God's love distribution between you, me and Mother Teresa. I believe God's love is like the love of any father. I love both of my children equally. And I treat them entirely different because they have different needs. I praise God for his perfect love and I promise to love him just the same no matter what challenges he puts in my life. He has helped me in awesome ways. But he has not made it perfect for me. That is really what got me commenting here in the first place. I felt that Mother Teresa's struggles were being mis-characterized unfairly.

15. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66526 by lane on August 30, 2007 at 9:03 am

Elli :

Thank you for being so welcoming to my different perspective. I didn't come here to start an argument. I just felt I had something to say on the subject. This probably represents the first time I have ever commented on any website for any reason.

I just have one thing to say about proof. I'll never be able to prove that there is a God. I don't even feel like I need or want to. Something happened to me when I accepted Christ. I don't really understand it but there is something there that is real.

I was deep in sin at the time and my life was a real mess. I had spent 27 years digging myself into a hole of poverty and depression. When I accepted him I was on my knees about to be evicted from my apartment with no car, no job and not one friend.

I was really a failure is what I'm getting at. God started putting the pieces of my life together one step at a time. Within 3 years I had established a decent career and now 8 years later I have a thriving career, 2 beautiful kids, a great house, and the best marriage I could ask for.

The only reason I say all of this is because to me this represents all the proof I need. Admittedly, I am not well educated, probably not very smart, and still lead an imperfect sin plagued life. The only thing that has really changed is that I am at peace with my faith in God and believe that all of the sins I mentioned are resolved through the death of Jesus Christ.

We Christians are at a disadvantage in this argument. I know I didn't have the personal resources to resolve my situation. And yet my situation, my soul, and my heart are corrected. But by intellectual standards this doesn't represent proof at all. So all we can really do is just tell a story of belief and hope you find something in it that inspires you to take a chance on God. If you need him.

I love my kids and my wife. When something bad happens to them I feel real pain. I can't prove it, but I know it to be real. That's just how I feel about my relationship with God. I'm obligated to tell you about him because I know that he is real, but I can't prove him.

Thanks for listenting and please think about what I have said.

16. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66217 by lane on August 29, 2007 at 11:10 am

Elli:

No, I was very serious.

I realize I wandered into a place where my comments probably were not welcome. But I felt compelled to comment on the story after reading what everyone else was saying.

God loves you guys as much as he loves me, so I thought clarifying his relationship with the Good Mother couldn't hurt anything.

17. Mother Teresa's '40-year faith crisis'

Comment #66210 by lane on August 29, 2007 at 10:50 am

Isn't it amazing how people can read an article and arrive at such different conclusions?

This story did nothing but increase my faith in a loving God. The fact that Mother Teresa had spiritual doubts at times and seemed distant from God, to me is just proof that her faith was real and based on a genuine Love of God.

I don't expect that an unbeliever could really understand this. But Christians like me who Love and Respect Him, sometimes feel a distance often and especially when we are trying our hardest to be close to him. We don't understand it either, but we have the faith that the maker of all things is fair and wise in his decisions and that eventually our faith will be rewarded.

I'm no Mother Teresa. But I notice sometimes when I teach my little Sunday School class I can sometimes get discouraged with God that he won't reveal himself more to me. I Love God anyway. Maybe he's just helping me to try harder. Maybe if I'm always in a state of bliss about my Faith I won't try to understand his deeper desires for my life.

Even if you don't believe in God, I encourage everyone who comes here to read the story of Job in the Bible. I think it will clear up your confusion about what Mother Teresa was going through. God loves us and wants the best for us. But like any father sometimes he directs us in ways we don't like or don't understand at the time.

I pray for you to understand this story for what it really is. A demonstration of our weak human nature and a true testament of how much we need our God to get us through this test.