1. A new website addition: Debate Points

Comment #82253 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 11:59 pm

Christians tell me I'm arrogant. (I do mention that between us, they are the ones who think that the universe was created just for them.)

2. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. were atheists, and they were terrible! Answer that!

Comment #82248 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 11:42 pm

"Good observation, my theist friend! Religion is just the most common form of various evil Dogmas."

3. Science can answer how questions but only religion can answer why questions

Comment #82243 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 11:29 pm

Science answers 'how' questions.

Religion answers 'why' questions for the intellectually dishonest and lazy.

Of course scientists can't tell you what the meaning of your life is! If you want to know the real meaning of your life, you'll have to go find it yourself. Take some responsibility!

4. If you don't accept the supernatural, you obviously think life is depressing, meaningless and cold

Comment #82237 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 11:05 pm

Bonzai,

You reminded me of something:
My parents are not religious, so I didn't learn much about religion when I was very young. As I got a bit older, started school, and met other little kids, I learned a bit about their religions. At some point, while still in elementary school, I learned that both Santa Claus and God could watch you all the time. I immediately asked a Christian friend if he wore a bathing suit when he took a bath.

If you like privacy, life is better without the supernatural!

5. If you don't accept the supernatural, you obviously think life is depressing, meaningless and cold

Comment #82234 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 10:56 pm

I've noticed that it makes some Christians very uneasy when I tell them what a great childhood I had. They just don't seem comfortable with the idea that a family full of Atheists could get along so well. (This is usually after they've complained about how terrible their childhood was.)

Counter this mean caricature with your life. Live, love, and be proud Atheists.

6. The US is a Christian Nation

Comment #82217 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 10:16 pm

Logical Fallacy: Argumentum ad populum

It is, of course, not true that America is a Christian nation. But even if it was true, what does that have to do with the truth of Christianity? It's interesting how many of these debate points have nothing to do with whether or not religious claims are true.

If the United States was a Christian nation (which, again, it isn't), then I would be interested in getting that changed.

Iran is a Muslim country. Does that make Islam true?

7. Atheists don't believe in anything

Comment #82212 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 9:58 pm

All you can tell by my Atheism, dear Theist, is that I don't believe in the supernatural. You haven't taken the time to find out what I do believe.

8. Most religious people are moderate, and don't hurt anybody

Comment #82210 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 9:52 pm

This has nothing to do with truth. A harmless delusion is still a delusion.

Also, the harmless deluded drones vote. And they vote the way they are told to vote. This is a problem, and it can have very negative effects on other people's lives. If only these people were taught to think critically.

9. Arguments Against Evolution

Comment #82170 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 7:27 pm

Well, here's a classic False Dilemma. Make it sound like there are only two theories. Disprove theory A, and conclude that theory B must therefore be true. It's a pretty silly logical fallacy, and hopefully most people don't fall for it.

Good luck to any theists who think they can disprove evolution. Of course even if they managed to do it, they'd still be stuck with the task of proving that creationism/ID is true. (Still, I encourage Theists to go after evolution. I hope that the more they learn about it, the more it will shake their faith)

10. Atheism is a religion and you're as bad as the fundamentalists

Comment #82157 by EastCoastAtheist on October 25, 2007 at 7:03 pm

To be an Atheist, all you have to do is reject the God theory.

Rejecting a theory, because there is evidence against it and a complete lack of evidence for it, is hardly a religion. It sounds like common sense to me.

The rejection of the theory that the world is flat isn't a religion. The rejection of the theory that the Sun revolves around Earth isn't a religion. If the rejection of a single theory made you religious, we would all belong to a huge number of religions.

There isn't much wiggle room for a moderate-to-fundamentalist spectrum with Atheism. Either you reject the God theory or you don't.

It will probably help if you have the other person define "religion". They'll back themselves right into a corner.

(Note: With many of these Debate Points, forcing the other person to define terms is very helpful. I've had a good laugh listening to believers try to define things like soul, spirit, etc. It's a good place to start.)

11. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Alister McGrath

Comment #81036 by EastCoastAtheist on October 23, 2007 at 11:43 pm

Sorry to get off topic from this less-than-productive discussion with a couple Theists, but I'm going to comment on the Hitchens/McGrath debate again. In 400+ comments, I don't know if anyone has already observed this:

McGrath said a rather revealing thing in this debate. He said that if there is no God, then we are accountable to nobody. I realize that he was quoting someone when he said it, but he seemed to be using the quotation to make his point.

Most of the people that post here can easily see what a silly statement that is, but I hope people have also asked this question: What does this tell you about McGrath?

Well, McGrath, how about being accountable to your fellow human beings? Or is nobody important enough to you?

Typical Christian arrogance...With an attitude like that, how can you maintain a friendship?

12. Debate between Christopher Hitchens and Alister McGrath

Comment #80717 by EastCoastAtheist on October 22, 2007 at 6:49 pm

Since Dawkins' interview with McGrath was posted on this website, I've seen the occasional comment recommending that I don't write off McGrath as a idiot. The person posting might not agree with McGrath, but they see him as a formidable opponent.

Oh boy, can I not see what they're talking about! He does not strike me as particularly intelligent at all. McGrath opens his mouth and sound comes out, but it's nonsense. He concedes some points, dodges others, makes ridiculous assumptions, discusses irrelevant things, and then lands on unfounded conclusions. It's hard to imagine that he is a writer, since I can't even imagine him passing a high school English class. Maybe when the subject is something other than God, he is capable of making a coherent argument.

He seems like the sort of person who would tell you that his beliefs are completely reasonable and rational, but if you pushed him on it, he would admit that it was all just his faith without evidence. Then he'd tell the next person that his beliefs are completely reasonable and rational.

Anyway, Hitchens wiped the floor with McGrath before McGrath even got a turn at the microphone. I almost felt sorry for him. Almost.

13. Fox News Attacks 'Godless' Free Thought Radio

Comment #79872 by EastCoastAtheist on October 18, 2007 at 9:48 pm

I don't watch Fox, but when I see a clip, I'm reminded of how poor (ridiculously, embarrassingly poor) the reporting is. This was an entire piece on Free Thought Radio, and the only times you saw Annie Laurie Gaylor or Dan Barker were the brief still shots of the Air America website. Then they just showed random footage of Al Franken. Sloppy journalism.

I am a bit surprised, however, that the brief clip of Dawkins was actually pretty good. I would have expected Fox to show some tiny clip of Dawkins saying that religion is bad, with no context or explanation. Then they'd demonize him as an intolerant, angry man. Here, they showed him making a good point. It's pathetic that this is probably the best representation Fox has ever given an Atheist (I'm not sure if this is an exaggeration or not), but it's more than I would have expected.

14. Keeping the faith at school

Comment #73264 by EastCoastAtheist on September 24, 2007 at 3:48 pm

America may be pretty wrapped up in religion, but at least we don't have publicly funded religious schools. I know public funds do make it to religious groups (Bush and his Faith Based Initiative nonsense), and I know Christianity often sneaks it's way into schools in some regions of the country, but at least people can take legal action to get it kicked back out. The idea of Christian public schools scares the Holy Ghost out of me.

"Two plus two still equals four. But it comes down to our world view: How did 2 plus 2 come to be four? That's part of God's creation."

15. New Rules: A Religious Test

Comment #72776 by EastCoastAtheist on September 22, 2007 at 11:00 pm

I absolutely must visit the USA sometime soon in order to get the feel of a country where people will actually split their sides laughing at lines like:
"Santa Claus and Jesus are really the same guy"

16. New Rules: A Religious Test

Comment #72617 by EastCoastAtheist on September 21, 2007 at 11:54 pm

Say what you want about Maher, but when he's talking about religion, he's great!

I can't think of anyone else who has said things like that on television! "Santa Claus and Jesus are really the same guy"

It's too bad that he's on premium cable (I've actually only got regular cable), so he's less accessible. I don't think comments like that could make it on network TV, at least not in America. On regular cable, the closest you get is the Daily Show, and a few other Comedy Central shows. Unfortunately, they usually seem to dance around the issue, using satire and insinuations...nothing explicit.

Whether he knows about it or not, Maher is certainly helping to promote the Out Campaign. (And after the clip posted on this site, I liked the jab at The View)

17. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #72586 by EastCoastAtheist on September 21, 2007 at 7:39 pm

Very nice post, Cartomancer. It clearly puts the whole creationism/ID theory in perspective.

18. Against the grain: There are questions that science cannot answer

Comment #72379 by EastCoastAtheist on September 20, 2007 at 10:45 pm

Since when did science, Atheism, or Darwinism have moral doctrines (pernicious or otherwise)? "Anti-human bloody-mindedness"?!?!? A crazy accusation from an apparently crazy woman.

She is so good at sounding ignorant, that it's actually hard to tell if she's lying. It sounds like she didn't read The God Delusion, or watch any of Dawkins' documentaries. In fact, it sounds like she doesn't know anything about him at all. She just went for the throat of her straw man like a crazy rabid dog.

But you can't actually get your reviews published if you haven't even read the book, can you? She had to have read it...so I guess she's just good at telling lies and looking stupid. (What in the world is wrong with these poor religious people, that they would actually want to do that?)

19. The Stupidity of Fox News is Truly Beyond Belief

Comment #71844 by EastCoastAtheist on September 19, 2007 at 6:45 pm

That was pretty cool. The priest says "How do we explain the intricacy, for example, of the human eye?", and next to him they were running footage of people down on the ground in prayer. A chill went up my spine. Creepy stuff.

"Why is it that there is this sort of posturing in the media of Atheists as the intellectuals?"
-The only encouraging thought in this clip (even if it was presented as a bad thing). Everything else made me want to bang my head against the wall.

20. Airline sacrifices goats to appease sky god

Comment #71832 by EastCoastAtheist on September 19, 2007 at 6:22 pm

Oh, and I know it's tradition....But why weren't the creators of the tradition more creative? (and less wasteful)

Also, these present day people are making the choice to follow tradition.

21. Airline sacrifices goats to appease sky god

Comment #71830 by EastCoastAtheist on September 19, 2007 at 6:20 pm

I've been wondering...Why isn't praying good enough for these people? It's just as effective as a blood sacrifice, but without the mess!

They could rub their stomachs and pat their heads while standing on one foot. They could walk up and down a street ten times without stepping on any cracks. They could get creative and make up any superstition they want. I know my first choice would not be to slaughter something.

22. God Talk on 'The View'

Comment #71498 by EastCoastAtheist on September 19, 2007 at 12:00 am

Try not to vomit.

23. Catholic school board in Halton may ban HPV vaccination

Comment #71494 by EastCoastAtheist on September 18, 2007 at 11:38 pm

Disgusting. Just Disgusting.
The Catholic church makes me so sick. They preach against condom use in countries riddled with AIDs. They rape children and organize cover ups. Now they are doing their best to make sure that as many women as possible get cervical cancer.
sick sick sick sick sick sick!!!!

24. A Table for One

Comment #71055 by EastCoastAtheist on September 17, 2007 at 5:28 pm

I believe that Colbert is genuinely a Catholic.

I see him as being very clearly on the side of the faithheads.

25. A Table for One

Comment #70798 by EastCoastAtheist on September 16, 2007 at 11:54 pm

Corylus,

I can't be sure, but I don't think that Colbert is actually a Catholic. The Stephen Colbert you see on his show is not the real life Stephen Colbert. It's just a character that he plays to make fun of the Bill O'Reillys of the world. His show is on Comedy Central, after all. Keep in mind, this is the man who originally did the "This Week In God" segments on the Daily Show. (I love it when they do those, even without Colbert). He makes fun of religion and the religious a lot.

But hey, it's not like I know him personally.

26. A Table for One

Comment #70789 by EastCoastAtheist on September 16, 2007 at 11:18 pm

"Does god split hairs too, or just you?" Ha!

27. Airline sacrifices goats to appease sky god

Comment #70784 by EastCoastAtheist on September 16, 2007 at 10:58 pm

Now this is funny. (Well, not for the goats)

How do you fix a plane? Just kill some goats...and then fix the electrical system. But killing the goats is an essential step!

I liked this line:

"The goats were sacrificed in front of the troublesome aircraft Sunday at Nepal's only international airport in Kathmandu in accordance with Hindu traditions"

I guess they mean that the way the goats were killed was in accordance with tradition. The wording makes it sound like the whole process (killing goats in front of planes, to fix the planes) is Hindu tradition. It wouldn't be a very old tradition.

28. Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath

Comment #70783 by EastCoastAtheist on September 16, 2007 at 10:49 pm

Considering there are a couple thousand comments here, odds are that this has already been discussed. Just in case it hasn't, I thought I'd make a note:

It's both funny and sad that McGrath goes for the "Stalin was an Atheist, and look what happened there!" argument. This is the sort of argument a simple minded person like Bill O'Reilly would use. What a scholar McGrath is!

Here's a simple way to debunk this one (though it's been done over and over and over already): Stalin didn't believe in Unicorns, and look what happened there! We need to make sure that only people who believe in Unicorns rise to power! Millions will die if we let the Non-Unicornians get their foot in the door! We can not allow an Non-Unicornian regime! etc, etc...

29. Enemies of Reason

Comment #70782 by EastCoastAtheist on September 16, 2007 at 10:32 pm

The beginning of this documentary kills me. I love the look on Prof. Dawkins' face! I'm no Derren Brown, but I think I might know what he's thinking.

30. RELIGULOUS: A Conversation with Bill Maher and Larry Charles

Comment #70046 by EastCoastAtheist on September 13, 2007 at 10:13 pm

Lenny Bruce, Woody Allen and George Carlin

31. RELIGULOUS: A Conversation with Bill Maher and Larry Charles

Comment #69959 by EastCoastAtheist on September 13, 2007 at 10:34 am

I think HeathenAngel has the right idea. I don't agree with everything Maher says. In fact, I don't even watch his show on television ( I don't get the premium cable channels). I usually just go on YouTube, type in something like "Bill Maher religion", and then enjoy what comes up. He's good when he's focused on religion, so this movie looks very promising.

32. RELIGULOUS: A Conversation with Bill Maher and Larry Charles

Comment #69793 by EastCoastAtheist on September 12, 2007 at 8:07 pm

I can't wait for this movie. I love it when Maher talks about religion on his show...but a whole movie all about religion?!?!? I hope it's as hilarious as it sounds.

I wish they'd change the name though. "Religulous"? I guess it's supposed to sound like 'ridiculous'? They could do better than that. Funny movie poster, though.

33. 'Root of All Evil? The Uncut Interviews' Released on DVD

Comment #69324 by EastCoastAtheist on September 10, 2007 at 10:37 pm

Some people seem to be complaining about the fact that the interviews with Ted Haggard and Yousef Al-Khattab did not make it on this DVD (apparently for legal reasons). While I can sympathize (they would have been my first picks!), I also think that this DVD set is excellent without them.

Jill Mytton and Ian McEwan both provide intelligent conversation and excellent insight. As the first two interviews on the disc, they are your last breath before plunging into the depths of irrationality. I am especially thankful to Ian McEwan for addressing the myth that rational people are cold and unfeeling. He reminds "spiritual" people that atheists experience love, awe, wonder, and inspiration. We just don't mix it up with anything supernatural.

Richard Harries comes across as a genuinely nice and intelligent man. In fact, he seems so reasonable, that you start to wonder why he's a Christian at all (something Prof. Dawkins actually asks him). I suppose that's exactly why he is a bit frustrating to listen to!

After Harries, you really get into the interviews with people that Dawkins is at odds with. The interview with Alister McGrath is interesting, though I don't know how Dawkins manages to keep from getting overly exasperated. McGrath tends to answer most of the questions like this (I'll paraphrase): 'I think what I'd want to say is that I don't ask that question.' Or 'Christians don't ask that question.' or 'Theologians don't ask that question.' Well, McGrath, Dawkins IS asking these questions, so how about some straight answers!

"What Christianity is saying is that there seems to be something wrong with human nature."
-Alister McGrath

Watch as Rabbi Gluck (does the name remind anyone else of George Carlin as Cardinal Glick?) displays his complete misunderstanding of science. He may have been kidding about the "Jewish gene" (I hope), but why does he keep talking about the "scientific tradition"? (I've noticed religious people tend to try to understand Atheism in religious terms. Sometimes they even go as far as calling Atheism a religion or a belief system.) He says that Judaism changes over time, but then resists the idea of future changes. Then he criticizes scientists for changing their minds.

Listen to Adrian Hawkes explain his understanding of morality and then marvel at the fact that he's an educator. It goes something like this: We all have an inner light that God put in us. This is what guides us morally. Dawkins starts to talk about empathy and innate morality, but Hawkes immediately disagrees. He tells Dawkins to look at the world around us, and see all the bad things that people do. There is obviously no such innate sense of morality; you need Christianity! ...despite the fact that we ALL have an inner light...that guides us...morally...hmmm. We seem to be going in circles. Where is that universal inner light when people are doing these bad things?

It's fun to watch McGrath, Gluck, and Hawkes back themselves into corners, but their arguments are as tame as they are irrational. Representing the religious crazies on this DVD are Michael Bray and Keenan Roberts. As disappointed as some people may be about the lack of an uncut Haggard interview, these two interviews should satisfy!

Michael Bray makes me nervous. He seems to think that we need to get Mosaic Law into our law books. He is also (famously) extremely anti-abortion. But watch as Bray fails to answer Dawkins' simple questions about the very subject that he has been obsessed with for so long. Bray says that human life (meaning an individual soul) begins at fertilization. As soon as Dawkins starts to ask about identical twins and natural abortions, Bray's argument falls apart. Watch the DVD to find out what silly questions Bray has for Atheists.

Keenan Roberts was, I think, the craziest one on the whole disc. It looked to me like he was really genuinely angry with Dawkins (especially when phrases like "child abuse" came up). You start to wonder if he would have gone Haggard, if his cast hadn't been sitting right there. He's very good at the "it's what I believe because it's what I believe because it's what I believe..." argument, and he flat out refused to answer many of Dawkins' questions.

Regarding Christianity:
"It's not about being a better person. It's not about being a good person."
-Keenan Roberts

Overall, this DVD set was fascinating, funny, and a little scary. I hope a similar uncut interview set comes out for "The Enemies of Reason."

Buy it. Watch it. Share it. Thank Richard Dawkins (and the rest of the RDF) for it!