1. Dawkins on Darwin

Comment #202934 by GoneGolfing on July 2, 2008 at 6:54 am

Barry P.

.... We shouldn't judge the success of the "rational viewpoint", or "the enlightenment", by whether existing Creationists are converted. A few may be but most won't be. Our success should be judged by the degree to which their endeavours are "contained", and by the beliefs of the next generation.

Will there be replacements for Dembski, Behe, etc, in the next generation? If so, how will their views compare? Note that Behe doesn't appear to deny evolution and common descent. Will the next generation, if there is one, similarly accept many scientific positions, and confine themselves to narrower conflicts than the current generation?

.... Many Creationists are fully aware that this is largely a battle for the next generation. We should all act and judge accordingly.

I believe we are already seeing a shift in the level of belief and a wavering of faith in the "younger" generation of today. My own children have some good friends in the evangelical world and these individuals are visibaly allowing themselves to become more immersed into the natural and common lifestyles of secular society(going to bars, movies, smoking, abortions, sex outside of marriage, being gay etc.)and making personal choices which are still taboo for the older mailine theists. I would suppose that as long as the fundamental theists are willing to support and send their children to the "Jesus Camps" of our day we will always have a fresh crop of YEC's to contend with, however, and as I've always maintained, I believe that unanswered prayer, unfulfilled promises, unfulfilled prophesy, and relentless uneccessary suffering in our world is what will be the catalyst in puting the severe cracks in the foundations of belief.

To know the scriptures is to also know that we are living right now in the time and generation that is to see "the coming of the Lord" and so until this generation and perhaps another one passes without this prophesy being fulfilled we must put up with the infantile and often dangerous theistic nonsense that we see.

The mountain of Scientific evidence did not move me away from theism..... The unfulfilled, the uneccessary, and the immoral aspects of the delusion did... We must wait.... We must be patient. We who are alive will not see a mass exodus from theism but perhaps our great great grand children will be the ones to say "Religion? oh yes I've read about that...pity wasn't it?"


Excellent interview Paula :-)

Cheers

2. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199228 by GoneGolfing on June 25, 2008 at 10:59 am

Al-Raw.

What is the handicap... you golf much?

Well, I golf way too much and my handi is way too high!!.....It was a respectable 9 at one time but has since moved into the upper echelons of the teens and my friends love it!...I seem to be in a permanent funk and it means more cash in their pockets!...grrrr..lol


Seeing that Prof. Dawkins spent a considerable amount of time in TGD, and does so in his lectures, on the topic of child indoctrination, labeling and abuse, it would be interesting to read a comment from him on Dr. Al-Mu'bi's disturbing statements.

Could someone on the inside nudge the Professor ? :-)

Cheers

3. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199123 by GoneGolfing on June 25, 2008 at 8:01 am

:-)

I am still waiting on the citations from secularist, care to help him out?

Not at all!! There is no justification for Wahhabism. I despise it and all vile doctrines and ideologies as a matter of fact and loathe that some of the west sleeps with this evil for the black gold under it's feet.

Good input to the thread mate :-)

Cheers

4. Saudi Marriage Officiant : 'It Is Allowed To Marry A Girl At The Age Of One'.

Comment #199104 by GoneGolfing on June 25, 2008 at 7:27 am

Hi Al :-)

No one here is apologizing for the Wahhabis. And by the way, why don't you learn how to spell "Wahhabi".

*EDIT* Take the "Native American" Ward Churchill... a man who was discovered to be NOT Native American and an Academic fraud and plagarist.

Cheers mate :-)

5. Richard Dawkins on The Big Questions

Comment #157206 by GoneGolfing on April 8, 2008 at 5:05 pm

:-(

I pity the city of London if that blithering moron becomes their Mayor!

6. Blasphemy

Comment #122826 by GoneGolfing on February 6, 2008 at 7:17 am

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The time has come for Muslims to step up to the plate and demonstrate that Islam is a great faith that has no need for violence or intimidation to maintain the loyalty of its congregation.

66. Comment #122744 by TonyA

He doesn't say it is a great faith. What he says is that it is time, for those who claim it is a great faith, to step up and prove it.

I could see how one may interpret him to have meant that Tony and he may have. But to me it certainly can come across, as Steveroot pointed out, as slightly patronizing. I have no doubt that Dr. Dennett thinks that Islam is, for the most part, an ugly Dogma with very little to be positive about but, as it has been pointed out, we need to be very careful with our wording when trying to be critical, or not critical, of something.

I think LorienRyan could very well be right though in stating that ""Dennett's letter is an appeal to human rights, not a criticism of Islam, per se"", as I see his entire first paragraph as a gentle yet clear deriding of the West which in his opinion has screwed up quite badly when it comes to what he calls the "aide of Moderate Muslims all over the world". Dr. Dennett is most likely correct, and I certainly agree that we need to speak out and try to come to the aide of any indiviual who is under such oppression and subject to these vile penalties, such as Mr. Kambakhsh is, under such rediculous Theocratic laws. I can only hope though, and I honestly do, that his belief and encouragement that more non-Muslims speaking out will cause more moderate Muslims to speak out, will truly work. A stop in the violent nature of Islam, or any Religion/Ideology, is a crucial step in the right direction.

Again..Excellent article of which I believe the gist was stated with sincerety and "overall" clarity.

If I could suggest one change to the statement above it would be: "" The time has come for Muslims to step up to the plate and demonstrate that "if" Islam is the great faith that "they claim it is", "then it will have" no need for violence or intimidation to maintain the loyalty of its congregation.""


GG

7. Blasphemy

Comment #122547 by GoneGolfing on February 5, 2008 at 12:37 pm

--

I certainly appreciate and respect Dr. Dennett, but I'm having some difficulty accepting and understanding this statement:

The time has come for Muslims to step up to the plate and demonstrate that Islam is a great faith that has no need for violence or intimidation to maintain the loyalty of its congregation.

I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on exactly what it is that makes it such a "great faith" ?

Excellent article otherwise.

GG :-)

8. Admitting that you have no religion is not politically correct

Comment #121986 by GoneGolfing on February 4, 2008 at 12:59 pm

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While this university is indeed technically a secular institution, secular does not denote taking an active stance in opposition to the principles and status of religious beliefs and practices.

But due to the need to respect and tolerate the views of others, the Campus Clubs department is unable to approve a club of this nature at this time.

Outrageous hypocrisy !!


GG

9. Morality and the 'new atheism'

Comment #120063 by GoneGolfing on February 1, 2008 at 8:21 am

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111. Comment #120032 by Quetzalcoatl


Precisely!

It's a very weak and telling defensive position that is indeed undermind.

GG

10. Morality and the 'new atheism'

Comment #120024 by GoneGolfing on February 1, 2008 at 6:47 am

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101. Comment #120017 by Quetzalcoatl

Excellent post Quetz.


Nihilism as a philosophy is utter nonsense!

Artful-D..... Honestly, are you suggesting that if one becomes an Atheist today that a morality battle begins in their minds? Are you saying that they would, either by default or by choice, strongly consider or immediately reject all moral priciples based on the fact that without a God life is meaningless??

I've never met one Atheist who has said, ""Damn!! I started to use my faculty of reason properly this past week but boy is my mind fucked up on the morality issue!!""

GG

11. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #119280 by GoneGolfing on January 31, 2008 at 12:52 pm

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Jimbob,

Oh that Religions would simply heed to our call!!

Your thoughts are noble and do have merit but it is a steadfast foe we face and the only morality that exists for them is---Gods morality.

They have been told thousands upon thousands if not millions of times of this fallacy and I believe that the distinguished professors and others could do no better than what they have done, especially as of late with the many wonderful books they have written, to clearly make this point you speak of.

I honestly don't know what more could be done.

Sincerely,

GG :-)

12. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #119250 by GoneGolfing on January 31, 2008 at 12:28 pm

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Comment #119056 by ssssss

Gonefishing:
You seem to assume also that left to its own devices Islam will rot away. I'm not sure that that stands as an assumption either - when Muslims feel that they seem to be doing worse under Islam, they feel it is because they are not following it strictly enough - the solution is "more Islam". Secondly regarding the waiting for a Messiah - people can wait for a Messiah for a long, long time: just ask the Jews. Also people tend not to learn from history - the apocalypse is always about to happen - they forget that people have been predicting the apocalypse for millenia.

Personally I'm rather pessimistic about the success of bring democracy to Afghanistan.

Yes ssssss, true, it is an assumption, but my hope is that the more of Islam they bring upon themselves the more it will act as a festering sore, getting worse and worse with time until the whole body becomes grossly infected and they simply can't take it any more!!! To much to ask for? Perhaps, but time is certainly going to tell.

Yes it is also true that individuals can wait patiently. I was refering more to the belief in the Christian/Evangelical world that the "This generation shall see the coming of the Lord" prophesy, in the New Testament, is connected with Israel becoming a nation in 1948 and our current generation.

Thankfully Science is slowly but surely exposing the lies from throughout history and perhaps will be a catalyst in the changing of the apocalyptic mind as well. I hope so.

I agree and am also doubtful that an outsider can bring democracy to an unwilling Islamic nation....Perhaps the answer to that question is in the Iraq war?? Then again perhaps not. It's quite a mess there.

I may not see that democracy will work in Iraq, but I do see for sure that the violent internal struggle within Islam continues and seemingly gets stronger every day. I do think that the war, which may or may not bring democracy to one nation, is exacerbating the problems of the already divided house of Islam and exposing it further as the vicious ideology that it is.


BTW I'm an avid fisherman too.... Ice fishing this weekend :-)

GG

13. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #118946 by GoneGolfing on January 31, 2008 at 7:50 am

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Comment #118921 by annabanana:

I get really frustrated when I read about things like this because I can't decide what side of the fence I'm on. I mean, obviously, I think something needs to be done about fundamental Islam, but what? There are people on here who advocate violence and those that advocate diplomacy and it seems impossible to know which one is appropriate.

I feel the same frustration. At times I think: Damn it!!! its time to send in the mercenaries!! but most times I hopefully think that the "gentlemen may we have your attention" approach might work. Do we fight violence with violence? Or can we talk/lead by example them into change?

No matter which nut cracker you try to use on Islamic law, the shell on it, is in my opinion, virtually impossible to crack and will have to rot away from the inside out over time and fall away on its own thus exposing it for what it is. Hopefully and surely then this lunacy will come to an end.

Until then, and in this particular case, I believe diplomacy is our only option as interference in any other way would be viewed as an act of war and violence on the authority of Islamic law and Allah by fundamentalists.

GG :-)

14. Sentenced to death: Afghan who dared to read about women's rights

Comment #118900 by GoneGolfing on January 31, 2008 at 6:26 am

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An outrage for sure!

Petitions are a strong voice, but is it truly possible for anyone to stop these vile actions? These thugs have been violating these oppressed peoples rights for centuries using Islamic/Sharia law as their justification, the law which is of course based almost entirely on the holy books of Islam. The Clerics/Imams/Mullahs are going to be the last persons on the planet to "change their minds" with regards to the correctness/authority of Islamic law and if they ever do they better be prepared to be on the run for the rest of their lives!. Karzai takes great risk in going against such decisions and not to mention gives the impression to these delusional bullies that he believes his authority is greater than the Korans/Allahs. That's a immense No No.

Karzai may take the risk and declare a pardon, but he also cannot save this mans life. Once a death sentence has been given in an Islamic court there will be someone who will eventually attempt to carry out that sentence, because as we all know, the belief is that in doing so will guarantee paradise for the individual who does so. Extremely sad/sick but undeniably true.

It seems that outside pressure avails very little if anything with regards to relief from these atrocities as the Islamic courts simply and always wave the infallible, inerrant Koran and state "Our Holy books say so, therefore we must do it!!" Case being in the hanging of two gay men in 2005 with much objection from the international community. The response was basically "mind your own business Infidels!!".

I believe that the world is going to have to see several more generations come and go before it even "begins" to discern the error of its ways in using holy books to conduct its affairs..... You can only wait for Jesus and the Secret Imam to come for so long.

Unfulfilled prophecy/promises are going to put the most cracks in the foundations of faith and hopefully bring an end to this wicked nonsense.

Off to sign the petition.

GG :-)

15. Happy Birthday Josh Timonen!

Comment #118857 by GoneGolfing on January 31, 2008 at 4:46 am

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Happy Birthday Josh :-) Your appreciated !!


All the Best,

GG

16. MySpace: No place for Atheists?

Comment #118104 by GoneGolfing on January 30, 2008 at 10:52 am

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I know very little about these social networking sites and have never signed up for one.

I'm curious though as to what significance this discrimination will have with regards to the links on this page to both MySpace and FaceBook ?? Should Professor Dawkins continue to support and promote these sites in the light of what has happened ??

GG

17. Richard Dawkins on The Big Debate

Comment #117975 by GoneGolfing on January 30, 2008 at 5:35 am

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Styrer -

Your enemy is not me, Cartomancer. It is verbosity.

I Disagree with this. Besides, I would rather be slightly verbose than constantly critical of others here anyways.

I have read many of your posts and found some of them enlightening.

How nice of you. I try to read all of his posts and find most if not all of them enlightening.

Your latter post lets down both message and language equally.

It's going to happen once in a while..get over it.

Sort out your meaning to word ratio and you may enlighten more.

Perhaps you would like to give each one of us a list of the problems we present for you and clear instructions on how to overcome our failings? We certainly wouldn't want to let you down.

Hope you do - you seem to have something worth my time.

I'm sure he'll get right on that as the thoughts of you spending your precious time perusing our posts is the highlight of our day.



GG :-)

18. Dawkins is third most prolific internet Briton

Comment #117673 by GoneGolfing on January 29, 2008 at 11:06 am

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McGrath where are you ?

LOL

GG

19. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117669 by GoneGolfing on January 29, 2008 at 10:51 am

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Yawn ........Another typical ad hominem attack by an arrogant, scientifically unarmed ignoramus, who is one of the many new polemicists trying to make their mark in the debate.

GG

20. Belief in Belief

Comment #117607 by GoneGolfing on January 29, 2008 at 8:18 am

BigginH, Thanks for clearing up your thoughts.

I could see how an individual could hold to this belief but I too distance myself from it.

I guess the only thing that I would say additionaly is that I view my faculty of reason as the main ingredient of many which makes my life worthwhile. It gives me the courage and the ability to view things with both appreciation and a degree of skepticism, to ensure that my understanding of this world is as close to the truth and as enjoyable as possible. It helps protect me from the dangers of irrationality and delusion. Lastly, it compels me to go forward with gratitude and the realisation that this is the one life that I will enjoy and that others too will enjoy. It's a responsibilty to myself and my family and to our world and also the Cosmos to use the incrediblly wonderful ability to reason. I'm sure you feel the same way.

C. Hitchens makes these arguments because it is a fact that we are indeed autonomous, rational and self-interested beings. However, it's not that we miss the point of Religion because we are blinded by these these assumptions, but that we do indeed get the point of Religion and we adamantly refuse to be irrational at any time because of this ability to reason.

I'm not sure if we have a "deep need" or "inante impulse" to connect to the cosmos but I think the truest way to attempt such a thing would be to do so through Science and reason. We've seen over the centuries many individuals who have taken these inate impulses that you refer to and turn them into deadly irrationaities. The only way to avoid any possible delusions are to pass them all through the powerful light of reason.

The sad fact is however, that irrationality has the ability to trump reason and it's so very evident in our world.

GG

21. Belief in Belief

Comment #117555 by GoneGolfing on January 29, 2008 at 5:28 am

Comment #117537 by BigginHillbilly

Any purely rational take on existence would surely do nothing but justify suicide; we live with a sense of faith in ourselves, our loved ones, our lives that supports us and encloses us. Any rational take on humanity must surely conclude that we are largely creatures that exist in a state of unreason, and no explanation, ultimately, will remove that sense of mystery and resonance that subsumes the limitations of our minds. Any attempt to persuade needs to focus on this; rational argument is a square peg that blunts itself on the round hole of our humanity.

Where's your evidence that a rational and logical take on existence is justification for suicide ????

GG

22. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117226 by GoneGolfing on January 28, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Artful_Dodger:

In many cases they were tortured and executed, and this was done to them because they were not atheists.

Rubbish!!

Russians of all persuasions died because of their rejection of Stalinism which was made up of policies based on centralization, totalitarianism and the dream of communism. It didn't matter if you believed in God or did not believe in God, reject these policies and you suffered the consequences. Period.

Also, there was no dogmatic enforcement of Atheism either...... All beliefs and ideologies other than those of Stalin were banned but a "no belief in God" dogmatism was never adopted.

GG

23. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117175 by GoneGolfing on January 28, 2008 at 11:24 am

Very good article for the most part.

Dawkins and Hitchens are the two who most often conflate religion and faith in their use of language - and they are also the two most well known. In my view, this is unfortunate. As Dennett points out at length in Breaking the Spell, religions are social institutions that are very effective at providing community, solidarity and mutual support. But they needn't be based around dogma. By being sloppy in their language, I fear the new anti-dogmatists are driving away potential allies.

So if RD and CH will stop crticizing their Religion and straighten up their language and criticize only their dogmas, then we'll get new allies??..Religious allies that will do what?? ...............Waiting.

It may be unfortunate but how is it possible to not conflate the two though? Religions are responsible for propagating the dogmas of their faith. Their dogmas are promoted and practiced as sets of principles that are irrefutably true. If however, these principles are deemed by evidence, or a lack thereof, as untrue or damaging, why would one then desire to discredit the priciples themselves but not the deliverers of these dogmas?

Yes Religions have been effective in various ways but one has to ask themselves: could the same effectiveness have been achieved without these Religions who are dominated by their dogmatisms?.

I have always felt that it's not about the effectiveness of Religion in "certain" ways, but about the "usefulness" of Religion "overall" as a modern, current, and rational means to provide for the needs of our world and it's species. I just don't see Religion as providing that or as an option in our world anymore. Remember, almost every Religious dogma has what they believe to be the irrefutable core principle of the supernatural.

I agree that it would be nice if Religions were not based around dogmas but where would that leave them? I think the sad fact of the matter is that they will always be. In the western world if you take away the supernatural then they become very large but powerless social clubs and the Vatican for one I'm sure would have no part of that !!

You can have a dogma without Religion, but Religion without its strange dogmas? Unimaginable!



GG :-)

24. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116035 by GoneGolfing on January 25, 2008 at 10:39 am

Comment #115993 by Styrer-

I trust you are joking about Bard63's comment?

Bard63's comment is one of the very few here which indicates any practical robustness in responding to the shit that kids will otherwise have abusively thrust upon them by the faithful.

This is categorically not a case of 'Teacher! Leave them kids alone!' It is one of educationally showing the kids precisely what the scumbag faithheads are up to.

This sort of stuff - atrocious, sickening etc. as it is - will also serve to debunk the ridiculous notion held by the likes of the curious Scott Atran that irrationality cannot be eradicated through reasoned discourse. Sit your kids down, if you have them, show them this, and let the reason flow.

Well, no, I wasn't joking at all....The clip was here at the site and we had the choice to view it or not. No one sat us down in front of it and turned it on for us just hoping to get an opinion from us, which is what Bard appears to be going to do.

This video should be acted on by choice only and when and if the individual chooses to do so. It should not in my opinion be "shown" to a child by a parent who found it as much funny as rediculous and only because he wants their feedback and especially without qaulifying the clip and then giving the child the chance to opt out, which Bard does not make clear at all that he is going to do.

'I'd rethink this position if I were you'. Care to go first?

Whats up with the smart ass comment above anyways ??

GG

25. Heath Ledger Death: Baptist Group To Protest At Memorial

Comment #115965 by GoneGolfing on January 25, 2008 at 6:35 am

True A-R :-)

But he also forgot to mention that: ""International human rights groups condemned the 2005 hangings in northeastern Iran of a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old on charges of involvement in homosexual acts. Amnesty International called Ahmadinejad's comments ''absurd'' and said Iranians have been arrested and harassed for allegedly committing homosexual acts. ""-- The Advocate.

Sounds to me then that he's likely unaware that the western "problem" is also an Iranian problem as well.....Not !

GG :-)

26. Heath Ledger Death: Baptist Group To Protest At Memorial

Comment #115959 by GoneGolfing on January 25, 2008 at 6:12 am

Comment #115787 by dragonfirematrix

Imagine what kind of life we would be forced to live if people like these religious Neanderthals took over our government.

Unfortunately we don't have to imagine too hard....Iran and Saudi Arabia are two examples of these "neanderthals" and their theocracies which have viewpoints on homosexuality that are about the same as WBC.....And I don't have any doubt whatsoever that there are many "closet" christians in the US government who are right now thinking " Yup, that Ledger got exactly what he deserved and I sure wouldn't want to be him right now!!""

Thank goodness for the Constitution!

GG :-)

27. A Letter From Hell

Comment #115944 by GoneGolfing on January 25, 2008 at 5:24 am

Comment #115888 by bard63

I am going to show this to my kids, and get some feedback from them as to what they think of it. They are pretty balanced and robustly sceptical about religions of all types.

You are ?? Hmmmmm... Then your doing exactly what these fucktard morons want to be done.... Unlike you though, your children may not find it funny at all..... I'd rethink this position if I were you.

GG :-)

28. The real danger in Darwin is not evolution, but racism

Comment #115589 by GoneGolfing on January 24, 2008 at 11:21 am

My German girlfriend is very proud of her breasts (as proud as I am pleased). Of course one is proud of one's natural features and abilities, why ever shouldn't one be?

Why shouldn't one be?

Because when stated it reeks of arrogance and feelings of superiority. That's why. Pride should only be felt when something is "achieved" by the hard work and merits of the individual who achieved it and the word itself should never be used publicly by an individual concerning themselves. Your girls breasts were not achieved and by the way, how do you know your girlfriend is proud of her breasts? Does she tell you so? I can just hear her ""Oh I'm so proud of my breasts Henri! aren't they the best!!?""....or perhaps she's a pride of place person saying "" Eeeeew look at the small titties on her!! I'm so proud that mine aren't like that!!""..... blah blah blah.

Whether one is proud of something personal or not proud, it's a feeling they should keep to themselves. Period.

To be concise :-)

GG :-)

29. Banned From Church

Comment #115489 by GoneGolfing on January 24, 2008 at 8:40 am

In the past decade, more than two dozen lawsuits related to church discipline have been filed as congregants sue pastors for defamation, negligent counseling and emotional injury, according to the Religion Case Reporter, a legal-research database. Peggy Penley, a Fort Worth, Texas, woman whose pastor revealed her extramarital affair to the congregation after she confessed it in confidence, waged a six-year battle against the pastor, charging him with negligence. Last summer, the Texas Supreme Court dismissed her suit, ruling that the pastor was exercising his religious beliefs by publicizing the affair.

This type of vile bullshit makes my blood boil!!

Using this sneaky, backstabbing tactic to humiliate a person into spiritual submission is so fucking low and not to mention in direct opposition to what Jesus taught!!.. Remember the casting of the first stone story?... Exactly !!

Jesus as much as said to the Pharisee's ""Hey lads your not perfect and so piss off and mind your own business, this is between me and the woman ""..... End of story, no further public display of the womans sin, and no additional punishment was required. As a matter of fact that woman is believed to have been Mary Magdalene who became a prominent deciple of Jesus.

I can't stand it when these dickwad pastors cherrypick scriptures and then go power trippin just to make themselves look like their all aligned up with the will of God and doing what he wants them too. Sickening.

GG :-)

30. The real danger in Darwin is not evolution, but racism

Comment #115383 by GoneGolfing on January 24, 2008 at 5:55 am

Campolo is an arrogant, frustrated, coward.

Irrespective of what Darwin personally believed, the idea of Social Darwinism has long been, and largely, discredited by many. Yet Campolo pulls it out of his bag of tricks and goes on the attack. Coward.

Darwins central idea of evolution through the laws of natural selection is sound however, and Campolo is just another in a very long list of annoying character assasins who through frustration show their anger that they are powerless to make this beautiful explanation of life to just go away !.

GG :-)

31. Florida in the process of approving new science standards

Comment #114944 by GoneGolfing on January 23, 2008 at 8:35 am

Thanks Al-Rawandi for clearing that up.

The poppies comment was more of an attempt at some humor I guess, but seeing as he had a 9 yr old for a wife I thought anything could be possible for him while hidden away in a cave :-)

Wasn't it Taggart that preached "" Gays are an abomination!... Gays are an abomination!!""......Thinks to himself however ""boy would I love to have a gay masseuse work on me though !!""

GG :-)

32. Florida in the process of approving new science standards

Comment #114939 by GoneGolfing on January 23, 2008 at 8:07 am

AllanW,

I think the teaching is that there in a state of perpetual virginity. Making it a special kind of reward each and every time for him as a reminder of faithfulness to Islam.....Whatever....Grrrr.

Seriously though....This kind of unbelievable bullshit is what you get when one popular yet illiterate man in a cave with most likely schizoprhenia, perhaps epilepsy, and more than likely high on the drug of choice for that time period,(didn't poppies flourish quite well back then??), decides to have a holy book written.

I'm not sure where exactly this teaching in Islam came from but does it get any more pathetic than this? The promise and teaching of virginal sex forever if you give up all and join the ranks is I believe absolute proof that it came from the mind of a sexual pervert.

A cult that is full of sexually repressed males is an extremely dangerous one and especially when you add such outrageous and vile rewards for this repression such as the one we're talking about.

GG :-)

33. Florida in the process of approving new science standards

Comment #114909 by GoneGolfing on January 23, 2008 at 7:02 am

Exactly Irate !

If their so bloody anxious to get to LaLa land then stop the cancer treatments or give up on the insulin etc...

LOL on Branson comment! Oh if it were only true! As I would certainly have loved to be there for just a moment to see the looks on their faces when they realize it's not going to be the eternal fuck fest that they were told it was going to be !

GG :-)

34. The devilish church practice of exorcism

Comment #114893 by GoneGolfing on January 23, 2008 at 6:15 am

Scottish G.

I can understand your feelings about this for sure. Being raised by parents who were pentecostals and being forced to attend a church of the same, I witnessed first hand what the mindset of these people are.

If your a pentecostal you've bought the full meal deal...speaking in tounges...being slain in the spirit...exorcisms...laying on of hands for healing.. etc.. etc....I don't think there's a denomination alive that takes the Bible more literal than the pentecostals.

I would say that at least 90% of the Big Guns in TV evangelism have pentecostal roots.

We have a TV evangelist here in Toronto that runs a church called the Prayer Palace. He's a white hellfire preaching in your face guy that has a congregation of 5,000 and an investigation by the Toronto Star News showed that he built this mega church in a predominately black section of Toronto and therefore it consists of 80% blue collar and low income black folks of which he's full bore pentecostal with. He himself however, lives in a multi million dollar home, drives several luxury cars and has a 4,000 sq. ft. home in Florida. He constantly preaches about money, blessings, and success, of course which the more you give of the former the more you get of the latter, and that of course is extremely appealing to any blue collar or low income person regardless of race. (And we also all know that teaching is a huge smelly pile of bullshit). The only truth that is seen of the blessing he speaks of is that its lining "his" pockets quite nicely! It's mind boggling that his flock won't wake up and see what this leech is up to!

A member of his flock responded to a Star question on giving with "" Our Pastor is worth every penny we give him! We love him so much !!""

Barf Bag Please !

GG :-)

35. Florida in the process of approving new science standards

Comment #114450 by GoneGolfing on January 22, 2008 at 8:15 am

They can call it what they want: Creation Science, Intelligent Design, BioLogos or whatever and argue it however they want, but it all boils down to the fact that everyone of them backs up to one spot.....Genesis 1:1

Yes, some claim it was 6000 yrs ago and some will agree to 6 Billion years ago, but they all believe that all things exist because of supernatural power and influences at the "beginning", and some at different points in time, and some even believe there's supernatural intervention on a day to day basis.

Bottom line: They believe a God did it...all non-believers are delusional...and the world is a mess because of this non-belief.

GG :-)

36. Florida in the process of approving new science standards

Comment #114416 by GoneGolfing on January 22, 2008 at 7:11 am

There is no need to be suppositional with regard to Evolution. It is clearly seen in practice so it is clearly then "not" a theory.

GG :-)

37. The devilish church practice of exorcism

Comment #114387 by GoneGolfing on January 22, 2008 at 6:15 am

Unfortunately this vile abuse will never stop as long as religion exists.

As pointed out, the fact that Jesus preformed this very ritual, automatically makes it a foundational practice that must be preformed if one is to follow the New Testament teachings to the letter..... The admission by the church that all unusual behavior by an individual is due to mental illness or chemical imbalances and not demonic possesion, would shake the church to its very core and do serious damage to the teachings of the Bible.

I love the story done by CBS and 60 minutes on a young lady 17 with Tourette's Syndrome. This is a neurological disorder which causes sudden and involuntary body movements and vocal outbursts called Tics. The young ladies parents had many Quacktard Fundies tell them that the girl was demon possesed and the parents very graciously yet wisely ignored them and searched with the help of Science for an answer. This answer was finally found when through research a small electrode was implanted into this beautiful young ladies brain to correct a faulty impulse and the girl was immediately cured of her syndrome and the Tics........No moron splashing her with fluids, punching her in the stomach or shoving a cross down her throat was required.

Its beautiful when Science exposes Religion for what it is..... manipulative, oppressive and dangerous bullshit.

GG :-)

38. Honour Killings

Comment #114012 by GoneGolfing on January 21, 2008 at 8:04 am

Cerebral vomit.

Hats off to Mr. Ahmad though for his willingness to expose his mental illness.


The parent that has a fear of their child thinking for themselves has an intolerable sickness of the mind.


GG :-)

39. George Scales, War Hero and Generous Friend of RDFRS

Comment #112994 by GoneGolfing on January 18, 2008 at 11:28 am

Warmest greetings Mr. Scales,

Reading this article by Professor Dawkins made me immediately rise, go to my beverage cabinet, and pour a shot of my finest 21 year old Scotch and raise a glass to you sir!!

My father served with the Canadians in Italy and survived WW2 and my grandfather was a tunneler that survived the front lines of France and Belgium in WW1. Your passion for life, your humility, and your generosity, has brought back many fond memories of both of them. Thank You.

I'm Wishing you a very speedy recovery and all the best in 2008 to you and yours.

Cheers !

Paul

40. Canadian fossil makes waves in Huckabee's presidential run

Comment #112035 by GoneGolfing on January 16, 2008 at 8:30 am

Annabanana:

"How does the populace ignore such staggering evidence? And how/why do they think they know better than many many years of what research has told us?"

As RO pointed out it's programming, wishful thinking, and fear of death for most. Combine that with the threat of Hell and it's a powerful recipe for the rejection of hard evidence for the truth.

No matter what Science throws at the die hard Fundies they just can't take the risk of backsliding into unbelief and ending up as fuel for the fire. Believe me, I sat in the pews for years and listened to the consequences of rejecting God and it becomes a tough mindset to abandon!.

For most believers, it's not so much about the reward they're going to get, but about the punishment they're going to escape by having their belief.

Quite pathetic.

GG :-)

41. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #112009 by GoneGolfing on January 16, 2008 at 7:46 am

Not to worry Gang :-)

Here in Canada, our PM (Harper) made some periodic references to his Christianity during his campaigning, none as rediculous as Huck of course, but has been quite silent on spiritual matters since being elected. Thank goodness !!

I too think that the Huckster knows he's going down for the count and is trying with this desperate and absurd idea to bring as many of the faithful into his camp before the knockout punch is delivered by the "Demo" candidate.

Even if elected, which I doubt, he would no doubt be more of a wuss than a warrior when it comes to his faith and Constitutional changes as he no doubt realizes the monumental challenges that would be standing in the way with the many powerful branches of government providing them.

It's persuasive talk for Fundies...but also cheap and superficial for the long run.

GG :-)

42. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #77958 by GoneGolfing on October 11, 2007 at 9:24 am

If I may, and excuse me for butting in for a second BJ :-)

B. John-

Here is my first question to you – which you must grapple with as a follower. How do you cope with the fact that you can have two or three or maybe even four different sincerely committed Christians, who all revere the Scriptures as God's word – and yet, claiming all of them to be faithful – can come up with a different understanding of one text or other, or a group of texts.
Let's take just you and me. We read the same scriptures, we put ourselves under God's guidance, and yet we come up with two opposed answers. FIRMLY CONVINCED THAT WE ARE TRUE TO THE REVELATION GOD HAS LEFT US. I REPEAT THE QUESTION: HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT FACT?

Answer?

More important questions!!: How does God deal with that fact?.. And why does God not deal with that fact?.. Why does God allow this opposition to each other?.. Why does God not clear this matter up once and for all since so many billions of lives are at stake?.. Why are there several thousand Religions/denominations/beliefs in the world, but the claim of one true God by most..theirs!?.. Which one then is correct, and why will God not appear and reveal the one that is so as to avoid all these senseless, and in the end, soul damning deceptions?.. Why is it that God would sit silent as three adults feel compelled to argue about their beliefs in front of those who are not concerned about the said beliefs and thus further confirming why they should be non-adherants?.. What is the personal God accomplishing here with this silence?

I'd suggest that instead of hammering each other with questions, have the guts to close your bibles, all of you turn and look to the heavens, and then start hammering God with some real questions..like the ones above. Most likely answers?.. silence.

Most likely reason for silence?....absence.

GG

43. Sam Harris seems like a nice fellow, but very confused

Comment #77411 by GoneGolfing on October 9, 2007 at 8:26 am

The ideas presented by Sam are without a doubt very near and dear to him. He simply had to run them by the big guns and what better place than at the conference?. Although approval is gratuitous, it is likely very important for him to look at the head table and hopefully see the nods and smiles of his peers. Its obvious that the term atheist has become incongruous to him, and it appears that he may be on a personal search for some type of nirvana?. Maybe a year or two with some Buddhist monks might help? :-)

He most certainly couldn't have expected everyone to climb aboard with these postulations and I'm sure he didn't, so any aggressive defense to rebuttal would probably be more detrimental to him than he would want. He needs to sit back have a scotch and let the gang chop him up a bit before getting too excited :-) Myers simply did a bit of pruning that all people, no matter who they are, should be willing to go through and in fact invite.

There's much at stake, and you'll most certainly have controversy, when you suggest to people to erase a word that may be the best description, to them, of who they are.

Concerning oneself for their entire life with things for which no evidence has ever been available is a burden which no one should bear.... This fact and helping these individuals is where Sams' focus should remain steadfast.

Presenting these specific ideas at this event may not have been his most brilliant move, but I admire him for his courage to do so and still agree that his forte is done with eloquence, conviction, and persuasion.

GG

44. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #75301 by GoneGolfing on October 2, 2007 at 9:19 am

Rev:

You may be right GG. Perhaps I have seen something more than merely swine here. I enjoy the conversations. I enjoy thinking about these things. I enjoy the challenge. It's addictive in a way.

Well, you never know whats in the sty until you have a look :-) ...Yes, the convos are excellent here and they can indeed be challenging, but I think its not the conversations that your addicted too. Its your faith that your addicted to and every conversation about it is like a fix that relieves the addiction. We must be like a bad trip man !

The euphoria you likely feel when leading someone to Christ affirms that your addiction is worth it and surely true. It also makes you feel enabled to come to a sty like this and search for, and try to achieve, the ultimate high of leading all the swines to salvation.

Sorry, that fix can't be had here.

GG

45. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #75288 by GoneGolfing on October 2, 2007 at 8:42 am

Revcort:

Jesus Himself said, "do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Then why are you still here Rev ??

Are you not now guilty of lost labour ? If Christ is in you then I would think that he is most probably exasperated with all this by now. Would you agree ?

GG

46. Logical Path from Religious Beliefs to Evil Deeds

Comment #75276 by GoneGolfing on October 2, 2007 at 8:16 am

Precisely !

Most Religionists think: " A higher power has enabled me to do this deed for the sake of my own and others good "


Most Rationalists think: " I am responsible for my own actions therefore I will, at all cost, cause as little suffering as possible in this world "

GG

47. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #75262 by GoneGolfing on October 2, 2007 at 7:05 am

Comment #75233 by brother john

Incoherent Rubbish !!

And I see that Comment #75250 by gr8hands has very thoroughly and fittingly made you aware of this.

And yes I do have excellent reasons for being a Rationalist:... Evolution, that is both pitiless and kind, has created me to have them. The wonderful ability to think and use common sense and logic, is a kindness of nature that I refuse to let be usurped by the pitilessness of nature that would allow Irrationality at the same time.

The brain has been marvelously wired by nature to accept and think about what the senses send it.... Have you seen God in person ? Have you heard his audible voice ? Have you smelled him ? Has he literally hugged you ? Have you seen the limbs of a child replaced by God that have been missing since birth, or blown off by a land mine or amputated because of cancer?....You know the silence that I allude to Brother John.

Silence is our reason.

GG

48. New Rules: A Religious Test

Comment #75245 by GoneGolfing on October 2, 2007 at 6:06 am

Summer Seale: Go do your hair , paint your nails and have a glass of red wine....Chill.

Your rant (#85) is heartfelt I know, but give Maher a break as he's only trying to help matters. I don't always agree with everything he says but he does have a pretty good take on the world around him, and at least has the guts to speak up on the issues of the day. He's bang on this time and I love it.

As far as populism goes, I don't think Maher gives a rats ass about being popular and impressing people, or he wouldn't say some of the things that he does. He's simply trying to keep it real, which is totally refreshing.

Your kinda smug are you not ? Try not to prove me right either.

GG :-)

49. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #74967 by GoneGolfing on October 1, 2007 at 8:39 am

Good Morning :-)

After 3 dozen golf balls(Fore!!), 3 dozen double Bushmills on the rocks(Hello!!) and 3 dozen hot chicken wings(Ouch!!), I've survived my golf weekend :-)


I can see that the extraordinary claims are still being put forth, but without the extraordinary evidence needed to back them up.

What I personally find remarkable though, is the attempt of the "Three Amigos" to gently and methodically rebuke each other about the differences in their beliefs right in front of us, and at the same time try to convince us that each one of them is on solid ground and that their particular convictions are worthy of adherence to.

I think this to be a detriment to the purpose of why the three of you have come here: That being to defend what you culminate to be a massive assult on your faith by P. Dawkins..... Yet do you not see that you wound each other in doing this? And to make matters worse, you also wound your efforts as a whole and cause serious doubts as to the validity of anything you try to profess.

All three of you have said that you cannot provide hard, current, and irrefutable evidence that God exists. Yet all three of you have provided us with hard, current, and irrefutable evidence that you disagree with each other on many major aspects of your faith and no doubt raise an eyebrow of doubt to each other. How can this possibly accomplish anything coming to a place such as this ? It simply exacerbates the difficulty of trying to convince the rational thinker of the need to cling to the irrationality of such beliefs.

Watching three adults, with degrees in Theology no less, challange each other over the rightness of their specific, and in general, irrational beliefs which are based on ancient texts written by fearful, ignorant, and wishful thinkers: is both slapstick and pitiful.

GG

50. Do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in them?

Comment #74193 by GoneGolfing on September 27, 2007 at 3:50 pm

Revcort: Thanks for responding :-)

God did create perfection Gone Golfing, but He did create it with the possibility of it becoming corrupted. The Bible makes that clear. Adam and Eve were perfect. The earth was perfect. The cosmos was perfect. But He did allow imperfection to enter in. Why? Well, there are different theories set forth by that, but to state with certainty the reason is presumption. I can speculate. A person who believes strongly in free will would say that God allowed for imperfection because not allowing it would have been to create a set of robots whose adoration would have been meaningless. A Calvinist might say that sin was a part of God's plan from the beginning, and that the ultimate purpose for it is to give glory to the grace of God in forgiving man's imperfections through His Son Jesus Christ.

Again, this is impossible for God Revcort.

You "must" go back to pre-creation and understand that God has foresight, and can see that even creating a perfect being with the "potential" for evil which he also sees "does" in fact "become" evil, is contrary to his perfection and he simply cannot do this. This nifty but fallacious doctrine you propose just does not stand up to the fact of who God is: not what God does.

If Adam and Eve were in fact perfect then it would have been impossible for them to sin because they were created in Gods image, which is perfection. God cannot inject something into a being that is not of himself therefore Adam and Eve could not have been imperfect or have a "free will" to sin. God does not have a "free will" to sin so these beings could not have one either.

As well, adoration and obedience are meaningless to a perfect God, as he exists in a state of utter perfection and total self sufficiency needing nothing. The Calvanists can think what they want but it is impossible for a perfect God to creat imperfection to bring glory to himself. To do so would defy his nature and that is impossible for him and to be more precise he simply wouldn't know "how" to do it. He would have no knowledge of how to create evil or even the potential of evil, as it is not a part of his nature.

Again you've started with an assumption based on scripture and tried to work your way backwards to make it all coherent. Even if you attempt it this way, an honest person will always go back to, and arrive at, where the hard questions begin. Pre-creation.


I'm off to our annual closing season Golf weekend with me mates...should be a blast.

See ya'll Mon.

GG :-)