1. Science leads to killing people

Comment #172271 by madame_zora on April 29, 2008 at 12:19 pm

The best news I've had all week is that Yoko Ono is suing the producers of Expelled for using a clip of "Imagine" without permission. The idiotic defense they're claiming is that the fair use doctrine allows them to use small parts for information purposes. Her lawyers are going to hand them their asses on a plate- that only applies to news and not-for-profit projects, not for for-profit enterprises. She's got more money than they do to play with, I think we've found our savior:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12468

2. Science leads to killing people

Comment #170853 by madame_zora on April 28, 2008 at 5:25 am

Anyone able to dig up old episodes of Win Ben Stein's Money? I'd love to see if he ever answered any questions on cosmology, archeology, history or anything that would contradict his current ramblings. I don't recall him having any serious holes in his subjects of knowledge on that show.

My point is this- either he was being fed the answers then, or he's a straight-out charlatan now. Something about all this doesn't quite sit right- I'm wondering if it isn't just a flat-out scam. I don't recall him being the lousy, sloppy speaker I'm seeing thesedays- what's up?

3. A Conversation with Expelled's Associate Producer Mark Mathis

Comment #165036 by madame_zora on April 21, 2008 at 1:09 am

Wow, what a schmo- he kept arguing for his own ignorance, then trying to present his arguments as authoritative- a five year old could see through him. Sadly, many theists don't have the reasoning capacity of five year olds, but then again, most of them will never hear this podcast.

His only argument was "I don't understand science, therefore I'm entitled to make up my own answers!!" We really need to start calling this argument out when we hear it. I was waiting for someone to say it but they never did. Since when is ignorance a license to make shit up?

4. Interviews with Richard Dawkins and Michael Shermer

Comment #164204 by madame_zora on April 19, 2008 at 5:42 pm

"Oh, see, that's your problem right there--it has NOTHING to do with reason and logic, generally speaking. It's all about emotions and feelings! You see, I tend to think that people's beliefs about God or the supernatural are emphatically NOT arrived at through logic and reason. No, you start out with the beliefs and then search for plausible-sounding reasons to hold them."


Layla, I just finished listening to the interview, and I am very pleased that Dawkins chose to share part of your email on the air. From the line I just quoted it seems you have a much clearer understanding of what is going on even than many atheists I've spoken to. You'd be surprised how many people really don't want to go all the way to saying that religion is essentially wishful thinking coupled with desperate justifications for those wishful beliefs.

Objective and subjective realities really must be differentiated, or nobody is ever going to get the point. "Real to me" is irrelevant to science, but this whole debate between religion and science will (in my opinion) leave us with some interesting scientific data. At the least, I hope it will help us to understand how and why we feel compelled to erects god to lead us- I feel certain it will be related to why we are prone to follow leaders, why we take orders from our parents without fighting, why we allow small numbers of people to make rules for the majority.

Whatever the answers turn out to be, it takes some courage to accept those answers without the comfort of imaginary beings that helped us with our fears of the dark. I hope your journey is an intriguing one, as well as fulfilling.

5. Teacher Expelled Over Religion

Comment #161956 by madame_zora on April 15, 2008 at 9:20 pm

Banning just makes martyrs, we need to ridicule religion into oblivion so that people are too embarrassed to admit they believe in the great faerie in the sky.

6. Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss

Comment #161158 by madame_zora on April 15, 2008 at 1:16 am

"Any fool could have been a Darwin"~ Richard Dawkins.

Haha, don't you ever stop. Your candor is so wonderful to watch, I also loved watching you wax poetic about Wallace's fever dream, then admitting your curiosity about what else he might have been thinking in that fever- those are interesting things to think about, and rarely do people mention them.

Krauss was also noticeably relaxed, funny and fascinating, his description of particles going through two slits was wonderful, and was the foray into ridiculousness they both engaged in. Great stuff, informative and a lot of fun. I think this form of discussion was comfortable for both of them.

7. Hitchens vs. Hitchens

Comment #157948 by madame_zora on April 9, 2008 at 8:18 pm

Wow, what a sadly un-level playing field, I would not like to be Hitchens the younger. While he was able to hold his own well enough on Iraq and even got a few strokes in, he started losing it fairly quickly into the religious debate.

I don't know what I keep expecting from watching these things, I guess I'm hoping I'll hear at least one theist debator say something that makes some small amount of sense, and it just never happens. What we get instead is the ol' softshoe routine where they avoid questions, change questions, or pull out the "Big Fat Meanie" card. What a snorefest. He abandoned any attempt at a serious debate with the comment that Chris' article had appeared in a magazine from which he had retired "on moral grounds" and then sat down in a huff as if he'd really just made a point. In fact he had, he'd just proven how incompetent he was to even be having a public discussion with someone of his brother's intellectual stature. How embarrassing for him.

8. Discussion between Richard Dawkins and Paula Kirby

Comment #157896 by madame_zora on April 9, 2008 at 5:36 pm

Paula- tremendous job, and thanks for the readings you chose. This was one of the first interviews with so much original material I'd seen in a while. Your questions were interesting and well-timed, a very informative and enjoyable conversation indeed. You look great on camera too!

Richard, your voice was husky and sexy, so there. I'm wondering if our favorite anti-christ is going to be a bit more outspoken now that he's retiring from his Oxford chair?

It bothers me that no one wants to point out what I think is pretty obvious- evolution isn't something that happened, but rather something that's happenING. When large numbers of people feel comfort from a communal connection through an institution like church, they are expressing what they perceive as a need, and for them it may well be. I find that for more advanced [evolved] people, this need seems less or nil. Richard seems annoyed by the question, because he doesn't have this need. Oh, it's funny and I sure smirk about his replies too, but I do know what they're getting at when they ask.

I can see a genuine communal need for meeting places where perhaps there could be more of a shift in purpose to community outreach projects, so that people can find ways to satisfy their need to do good and to help each other. Also, there is for many people a genuine need to feel belongingness. Churches do offer a sort of place of exchange where the haves give to the have-nots in terms of emotional resources. Secular people will take in strays into our families from those without families and stability, but not in so organised a fashion. Those who are seeking that kind of belongingness find it more readily in organised religion. Perhaps a secular alternative would serve those needs, minus the superstition that is the current price tag with which it is associated.

A wonderful interview though. Richard, I hope I'm around one day when you hear one stupid argument too many and you let go with a string of curses that would make Jesus proud!

9. Beware the Believers

Comment #153620 by madame_zora on April 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm

Well you guys sure posted some scary lyrics, but I think I've found the prize, "Figured You Out" by Nickelback makes me wish I could get my nickel back:


I like your pants around your feet
I like the dirt that's on your knees
And I like the way you still say please
While you're looking up at me
You're like my favourite damn disease

And I love the places that we go
And I love the people that you know
And I love the way you can't say no
Too many long lines in a row
I love the powder on your nose

Ooooh
And now I know who you are
It wasn't that hard
Just to figure you out
And now I know who you are
It wasn't that hard
Just to figure you out

10. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #153614 by madame_zora on April 1, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Hope you had a wonderful day, Professor! You've renewed my own interest in science, as I know you've done for so many people. I'll never be able to thank you adequately for the gift.

11. Beware the Believers

Comment #151826 by madame_zora on March 29, 2008 at 2:03 pm

rational_G and PZ got it- it's pro-science, but still taking a poke at us at the same time. We have broad enough shoulders to laugh at our (deserved) arrogance once in a while, surely. Two thumbs up on the writing, far above average for the genre.

Of course my first thought was that Richard detests balls hats worn sloppily- sorry Richard that you were maligned so egregiously!

12. Discussion on PZ Myers being expelled from Expelled

Comment #148072 by madame_zora on March 22, 2008 at 12:57 am

I agree with wundergeist that we should treat this film with indifference, I sure won't waste my money on it. Now, if it gets posted online for free, then I'll see what the scuffle is about. They're simply trying still to promote the idea that there is a legitimate public debate going on when there isn't, and they're using the Marilyn Manson approach of advertising. If you create enough controversy about yourself, you don't have to spend any money at all on advertising. Let's not be so cheap.

edit- I'm really looking forward to the full 90 min. discussion.

13. It's Make Believe!

Comment #137302 by madame_zora on March 2, 2008 at 4:08 pm

If there is a god, I hope it's George Carlin.

14. Christopher Hitchens on Real Time with Bill Maher

Comment #136902 by madame_zora on March 2, 2008 at 2:16 am

Hahaha, those guys were funny. It was odd to see three people from the same side on the show though, not much in the way of controversy. I'm not too eager to call Maher a mysogynist, and even his whacky ideas about meds don't bother me much. Let us not forget Newton was also an alchemist. Hitchens was unusually robust, it's good to see him smirking.

15. Defying Gravity in Science Class

Comment #127956 by madame_zora on February 15, 2008 at 7:43 pm

Well I thought it was funny.

16. God the psycho

Comment #122203 by madame_zora on February 4, 2008 at 11:14 pm

Steve Zara:
"We aren't going to make that many allies with Pat's approach alone. We need the "good cop/bad cop" approach, I think."

I've been enjoying this debate, and I agree wholeheartedly that both approaches (and everything in between) are needed. Dawkins has certainly gone just as far at times, I remember seeing him on the TED talks making his plea for militant atheism to the applause of the room. The thing is, different people react to different approaches, but some people who are hard-headed (like me) actually appreciate something exactly this candid. It would have jarred me out of a state of quiet unquestioning faith if I had heard him while I was still a believer.

Also, there is a need for a few people to "fall on the sword" as it were by being the bell-ringers and extremists. Sure, people with the nicer approach will be the ones who actually accomplish the nuts and bolts of winning people over with their hearts and minds, but before this can even begin, it has to come to the forefront of public awareness. I think he serves a very useful purpose on this front, so that the nicer among us have more to work with.

I'm somewhere in the middle myself. As a salesman, I was trained that the best result to insure a sale was to play "Love 'em and slap 'em"- it's just good cop/bad cop all over. This is always what seems to work best. We've got a sale to make indeed, I'll take all the help I can get from the articulate and considered. I'm more offended by the atheist morons personally.

17. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #120902 by madame_zora on February 2, 2008 at 6:27 pm

Fantastic lecture! I only wish he had included in his categories of how religious ideas are conveyed the necessity of repetition. Without constant reinforcement, the improbable exposes itself as such. The thing that makes anthropomorphised phenomena seem to real is that this concept is repeated so stringently throughout a culture giving it apparent credibility. The desire inherent in beings to assign authority to leaders is a coping mechanism that has proven useful in survival. It's going to be a tough sell to convince the majority to question authority because doing this threatens the safety nets we've constructed while growing up with such frameworks in place.

He's right- what we're going to have to do is to construct a system by which the "average person" can feel okay about accepting personal responsibility for his own morality and behavior without making him feel too exposed or vulnerable. Until such time, only the exceptional will be able to accomplish it, and that will never be good enough.

18. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #112341 by madame_zora on January 16, 2008 at 11:30 pm

"I think Obama is a prime candidate for the OUT campaign. I really suspect he's in the closet.
His parents were atheists, and he only joined that ridiculous congregation of his to get some street-cred for his social work.

The OUT campaign could definitely use a high profile politician like him."~ paine

I hear ya paine, but I think this would be an inopportune time to ask him. He's our only chance at getting reason into the Whitehouse and there's just too much at stake of we don't. Timing is everything and we could hurt our nation as well as the rest of the world if people saw him right now as someone they couldn't trust. He has the creds, he became a christian a decade before he sought public office. Now is the wrong time to rock the boat, but he IS at least mentioning the non-religious as people who deserve equal rights under the law. Let's not get too greedy.

19. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #112232 by madame_zora on January 16, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Anyone retarded enough to be glibly sniping about Obama being a closet muslim needs a wake-up call! He's the ONLY candidate who isn't a faith head. If it makes you feel good about yourself to spout moronic bullshit, then that's your business, but we here in America HAVE to support someone or we'll end up with the worst of the lot. Here's an intelligent man who supports SCIENCE and we need to get behind him.

Unless of course your real problem is that he's black. Huckabee isn't the only fucktard.

20. Huckabee Wants A 'Faith-based' Constitution

Comment #111893 by madame_zora on January 16, 2008 at 1:07 am

I really hope we're all paying attention. While the sober among us would like to laugh him off, I wonder what percentage of America he speaks to? I'm afraid we might be about to discover an ugly truth.

21. Richard Dawkins on The Late Edition with Marcus Brigstocke

Comment #110299 by madame_zora on January 10, 2008 at 11:55 pm

I loved seeing him smile so much, he seemed to really get a kick out of the doll.

He's got to be one of the hardest working men is showbusiness, he's sure spreading his good self around. I don't think it's a bad move on his part to appear on some lighter venues- what's wrong with atheism being fun? Or science, for that matter.

There's a difference too between social insults and personal ones. Nobody's going to stop being a racist because you call them an asshole, but you can make a public statement that racists are assholes, and it sends the message to everyone who hears it. If it gets repeated enough times by different people in different settings, then people learn that these views are no longer socially acceptable.

Theists are generally not swayed by rational arguments, they just start squirming and spagging all over the place, but never admit there's any possibility other than their morphing, ill defined "perfect" god. It's retarded. What's wrong with calling the ridiculous what it is? Nothing at all.
We need to stop listening to their objections to science, and just start laughing at the ridiculous ideas, and just talking over them as if they had no merit at all, because they don't.

22. The Pagan Christ

Comment #102437 by madame_zora on December 22, 2007 at 7:17 pm

Well, I'll defend Zeitgeist, and I initially had some reservations about it. For anyone interested, there is an interactive transcript available so you can see the sources used for information on specific parts of the movie, and review those sources against any other prevailing thoughts you care to find. I originally found some seemingly overstated generalisations, until I dug a little deeper. Many religions don't have just one "bible" you can go to as a source for a cohesive explanation of what that faith believes, so locating items like a deities' date of birth and circumstances of death are not simple, nor will you find these facts in agreement (and this is true of christianity as well) in every instance. If anyone decides to do their own research on this subject, I suggest you look beyond the wiki quick reference guides before you draw any conclusions. I found that first section pretty credible when I got a better understanding of what I was looking into. Myths and legends are not the stuff of factual data and readily accessible documentation.

I think that's exactly what Harpur found, that on closer inspection, the "truth" is buried under layers of socialisation, political interest, and a natural desire to connect in a spiritual way with our material world. It doesn't have to destroy the beauty of the myth to understand it as a myth. The point is, trying to make a beautiful myth into a reality based fraud destroys any value the myth might have had, and this fraud deserves exposure.

There is a hysterical sign on the highway near my house with gigantic capital letters exclaiming "HELL IS REAL!!". It makes me sad every time I drive past it, my fellow men condemn themselves and each other daily because they believe this. This is unacceptable in the twenty first century.

23. Richard Dawkins on 'Have Your Say'

Comment #96014 by madame_zora on December 9, 2007 at 5:41 pm

Dawkins managed not to explode when the idiotic Faux News priest said he wasn't an historian- well what would you call "The Ancestor's Tale"? I would say that Dawkins IS well qualified, as a scientific historian. Nothing to the preacher's arguments but strawmen and ignorance. I thought the ignorance displayed by the majority of callers was very telling of the actual situation we face. That Dawkins is willing to tolerate the massive amount of stupidity he must face is nothing short of, well miraculous!