1. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #101392 by Mark R on December 20, 2007 at 9:52 am

Listening to Richard is like a massage to the brain. Could have used a longer session.

Canadian media usually does a great job interviewing those of Atheistic views since many of the CBC folks are quite open minded. This Chap seemed to have a mission when questioning Dawkins but that is what brings out the best in Richard.
I bet the interviewer cringed when playing it back afterwards. Great to see Mr. Dawkins in Canada helping us spread the word.

I have a feeling if the CBC asks him to interview Mr Hitchens he may call in sick that day.

2. A Virus Among Honeybees

Comment #69718 by Mark R on September 12, 2007 at 11:20 am

We planted 2 bamboo plants in our backyard in Ontario Canada last year and the have grown very well and just started to flower and I cannot believe how many bees these 2 plants have attracted. The plants are swarming with them and since discovering this I have spent a few hours here and there admiring their beauty. What a wonderful and extremely important insect to us all. Maybe with stories like this other people may start to value all forms of life as it is brought to their attention how life has evolved as a whole and not a creation of individuality.

3. Ditching God: Emboldened Atheists Are Finding Purpose In Coming Out Of The Closet

Comment #58059 by Mark R on July 23, 2007 at 7:59 am

Locri, not sure where about you live in the Toronto area but you might want to look a bit east for the CDRH - we are the Clarington Durham Region Humanists. We started this year in Feb. and building a network of people of ALL ages around Durham area. We are hosting coffee nights and at present 2 a week. We are hosting our first Science Fair in Bowmanville for grade 6 to 8 students to take place in spring 2008.

We have a website you can check out and quite a few of the involved met right here at this forum as well. Our strength is people and we have a great bunch that is very friendly.


www.cdrh.humanists.ca

4. God not out of the question for most Canadians

Comment #54233 by Mark R on July 6, 2007 at 4:56 am

Reply to Comment #54176 by Kervinator

I can not for the life of me understand why we added God to the Canadian anthem but like you said i view it as just a word. I wrote a song once and stuck the word god in it though the song was written through the eyes of a third person. I view it all as fictional and it works for me. Just like watching a movie we know it's not real but we enjoy it. The unfortunate part is many watch the fiction view of god as something real that is where all the harm is done. I think i will go back to drowning out the crowd with OH Canada over god keep our land.

5. Here Comes the Fourth Musketeer.

Comment #48240 by Mark R on June 7, 2007 at 7:18 am

Not sure if anyone is planning of getting the Hitchens 'God is not great 'Audio book but after listening to it he would have been better off letting someone else read it. His tone and variations in volume make it a tough listen. Slurring words at the end of sentences and fading tone made it frustrating wish I had purchased the book instead. Just a heads up. Certainly not a close to Dawkins when it comes to reading a book.

6. Lightning damages Jesus statue

Comment #44325 by Mark R on May 24, 2007 at 11:11 am

"There were pilgrims up there on the hill," Sister Ilaria said. "The biggest miracle is no one got hit with the falling debris."

That just about sums it all up.

Rumours have it a man with a cape and the Letter 'S' on the front of his shirt was seen flying close by at the time of the incident.

7. Ask Richard!

Comment #41861 by Mark R on May 17, 2007 at 8:07 am

I have Ancestors Tale on the shelf ready to read. Climbing Mount Improbable was also great. Back to Selfish Gene I wrote a small piece on the affects of a family with kids from different parents and the affects of how more attached we are to children of our own genes when other children in the immediate family have different genes for your spouse who's children are from a previous marriage.

8. Ask Richard!

Comment #41842 by Mark R on May 17, 2007 at 7:15 am

I first read Stephen Hawkings "Universe in a nut shell" to start discovering more about our universe and life and quite enjoyed it. I went back to the book store to find another of his books when stumbled across the Selfish Gene which maube was due to a similarity between the last names. The back covers words caught my attention and since that time I have discovered so much. Dawkins has opened my eyes like no one else could. The Selfish Gene is not like the God Delusion but to me even more powerful. The selfish gene has lead me to start a local humanist group and start a community science fair and many other things to bring attention to the understanding of why we are really here.

9. Ask Richard!

Comment #41821 by Mark R on May 17, 2007 at 6:22 am

One great example i love telling people of how wonderful life is, is the way Richard explains how lucky we are to even be born. 1,000,000 sperm and one egg ...pretty good from the beginning that we made this feat. As well we are lucky to die since you can only die if you have been born.

10. Ask Richard!

Comment #41807 by Mark R on May 17, 2007 at 5:23 am

I think we need to open this up in a forum for sure. We have 4 children at home and one of the greatest approaches is just to let them see nature for its self and the right questions will come from them allowing you to explain the right answers. I have purchased the Life Series from the BBC with David Attenborough and found that the first one "The Trials of Life" is a wonderful way for children to see what happens in life. Along with seeing the cold hard facts of natural selection you see the true beauty of life as well.
Anyone start this in a forum yet?

11. Now Muslims Get Their Own Laws In Britian

Comment #36767 by Mark R on May 2, 2007 at 8:20 am

But though both have to agree lets say to attend and be heard in a private court, a woman may feel or be threaten to attend a case against her by a male. We know it is known to happen. Male Muslims having their way through religious channels. The paper maybe junkie but its not the first time we have heard about this.

12. Just 120 Trillion Miles From Home

Comment #36134 by Mark R on April 30, 2007 at 9:00 am

ghostbuster great point, People are already looking for a better place....forget heaven now they are thinking of another planet. I like the one we have here and do what i can to help it continue to support life. Why do we not invest tons of money in this planet to preserve it....so frustrating.

People die from starvation and people over populate, what a mess.

13. New Noah's Ark ready to sail

Comment #35882 by Mark R on April 29, 2007 at 7:30 am

Maybe you can book a spot for your pet incase we have a major flood from global warming soon.

14. New Noah's Ark ready to sail

Comment #35880 by Mark R on April 29, 2007 at 7:28 am

What a joke... all that wood wasted...looks like a forest was used...then again what does he care...typical creationist does not care about the future of the planet since jc will be back to take us all away. I am in the wood working industry and this is a discusting waste. We do everything we can to prevent the use of wood in a wasteful way. This thing will rot away and become a big eye sore for the are it is located. BUT im sure there is a fee for touring it.

15. Bill Maher - APATHEIST

Comment #35465 by Mark R on April 27, 2007 at 8:35 am

Bill Maher reaches a certian percentage (probably a large one in the USA) which has never heard of Richard Dawkins. This will create a spark amongst others. There is a lot of folks who will never be able to grasp the understanding of evolution and physics but have doubts in religion non the less. Lets bring them all out of the closets. I ust admit when he attacks Bush i find him quite funny. Remeeber how his show was removed from the air after he made comments to the americans being the cowards in war and the Terrorists being the brave ones.

16. Vote for the Time 100 - Are They Worthy?

Comment #34751 by Mark R on April 25, 2007 at 5:40 am

I must say that seeing Hilton and RD on the same list is weird BUT this is a chance for more coverage in the mainstream. The whole purpose is to break down some walls and make people realize this is another opportunity. Awareness is just as important. We need more people to say "who's this Dawkins guy?" There still a lot of people in america benefit in life from finding out more about RDF and this unfotunately is a way of getting to a lot of them. Dawkins on the front page of time would be a good thing for Atheisism no matter who is on the list below. #11 at the moment it says at the top of this page......not bad i say. I have a feeling some Atheists make this a personal battle and not a united one. Are we not all in this together?

17. Growing Up in the Universe: 2-Disc DVD Set

Comment #32847 by Mark R on April 18, 2007 at 1:05 pm

Hey this is like Xmas for Atheists! got my copy today in Canada, Santa Dawkins has been busy i see.

18. Dawkins vs Haggard: the Python Edition

Comment #29909 by Mark R on April 5, 2007 at 12:54 pm

heres the original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjqUmuMhTsM&mode=related&search=

a good laugh either way!

19. Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime

Comment #29545 by Mark R on April 3, 2007 at 11:02 am

hey He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy do you still have the link to where you found that section?

20. Aids Victims Risk Lives

Comment #29533 by Mark R on April 3, 2007 at 9:57 am

I get so frustrated and angered when i read articles like this. I try to post such articles in local forums i visit and people say its to depressing and serious for them to discuss....that sums up a lot of the general public i think. That is what is sad. I have family who would not even give the article the time of day. Afraid of the truth the hurt the pain.....their attitude makes makes me sick. It's not that i am trying to change them i just want them to understand plain real truth!

21. Atheist says he's victim of religious hate crime

Comment #29528 by Mark R on April 3, 2007 at 9:26 am

Quote from AA

"I am the president of the Atheist Alliance at Ryerson where this incident took place. I know Justin, and I highly doubt he would be making this up, or even exaggerating. I will tell him to check these forums out to answer your questions. If anyone wants the police report he sent me, tell me your email as its quite long."

AA
I myself am the President of the Clarington Durham Region Humanists and i am working with Justin Trottier to set up a CFI Campus group and know him personally and can assure you he is telling the truth in what really did happen.

On that note anyone going to UOIT it Oshawa ontario or know of anyone please contact me

www.cdrh.humanists.ca

22. When the ain'ts go marching in

Comment #28615 by Mark R on March 30, 2007 at 5:57 am

Also posted in General Discussions

We Were discussing this thread a the New CFI Toronto Canada location and i thought i would make you all aware of an attack on the Justin Trottier who is the coordinator for the centre For Inquiry and also head of the Secular Free thought center in Toronto as well. He was postering for an event at the University of Toronto for a lecture for the new book "God: The Failed Hypothesis" by Author Victor Stenger with a colleague when the attack took place. Below is a description given to police of the attackers

The perpetrators were last seen on the north side of Gerrard St., midway between
Church St. and Yonge St., walking northward through a pathway. The first
perpetrator (the head butter) was about 6', black, with short black hair. He
was slim build and clean shaven. He was wearing dark jeans and a blue and white
hat. He had on prescription glasses. The second perpetrator was shorter, about
5'6", of Arabic/Middle Eastern descent, was 5'4"-5'6" with short, curly, black
hair. He was also clean shaven (possible five o clock shadow) with a stalky,
muscular build. He was wearing a grey golf shirt, with beige pants. He had
prescription glasses and was not wearing a hat. They both appeared to be well
groomed and given what time of night it was, were likely Ryerson University students.


He was Head butted and punched and suffered a cut which may have been a slice from the
hat brim which the attacker was wearing when he head butted Justin.

This confrontation started after the 2 attackers were handed a poster and through it on the ground and were told to at least put it in the recycling bin. They apparently heard different.

The reason I mention this is everyone who is involved with such events and the public must be aware of
the others around us who might find our efforts offensive.

23. Dawkins says religion is 'like sucking a dummy'

Comment #28422 by Mark R on March 29, 2007 at 6:29 am

As far as having a Religion Gene, Could it be that the gene is all about really believing in something in general rather than a religion. Our 4 children have not been brought up on religion and do not have a desire to follow religion as belief. I could have a the so called Religion gene but its not religion i believe. My wifes parents are Catholic and my parents anglican so if a gene is what makes you believe in reliogn one or all of us must have it within the family.
So maybe the naming of the gene religion is incorrect.Maybe the Belief Gene is more appropriate.

24. Stephen Hawking Says Universe Created from Nothing

Comment #28236 by Mark R on March 28, 2007 at 1:14 pm

Hawkings best contribution to my life is this:

I read the Universe in a nut shell and then went back to the bookstore for another. This is a few years ago now. When looking for another of his books on the shelf i found another book from an author with a name similiar to his i picked it up it was called the selfish Gene the rest they say is history and have not read any of Hawkings books since due to my new direction of reading.

25. The Fifth Flea!

Comment #28216 by Mark R on March 28, 2007 at 11:54 am

Their believes have been put to serious tests and they are on damage patrol trying desperately to prevent a new generation from realizing the Truth.
Flea #6 should be in the printing houses by now ready to hit shelves i suspect. I bet they cannot what for the next book i know i can't.

All this does for me is show Richards success!

26. Neil Peart cites The God Delusion in new album's liner notes

Comment #28058 by Mark R on March 27, 2007 at 6:30 pm

quote from Civilized Worm
Worse than that, CANADIAN Progressive Rock!
Nothing against Canada but their bands suck)

Ok ......I dare ask where your from

Great true down to earth Rock in Canada my Friend

for a small population here we do pretty good!

I saw Rush with Max Webster too. Awesome

Saga, Triumph, Guess Who , Blue rodeo ,Tragically Hip, April Wine, Trooper, Nickel Back and many more

We just don't have the wonderful christian rock bands coming out of the states :)

27. Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!

Comment #27932 by Mark R on March 27, 2007 at 9:56 am

now i really nkow why i hate peanut butter!

god put all his efforts in the banana he could ave done a better job with a few oranges out there and the pealing of an apple drives me nuts.

Why did he put the seeds in those grapes?

poor intelligent design but he did good on the banana.....do you think he had something to do with the Banana splits from english tv?

28. New evidence of 'human' culture among primates

Comment #27735 by Mark R on March 26, 2007 at 11:54 am

"by Reg
If they are ever observed throwing the stones, could we assume they have found religion? Lol."

Hilarious!

Were the females buried up to their necks?

29. A hundred residents of a Russian village have refused to switch to new passports because they believe the documents' bar codes contain satanic symbols

Comment #27725 by Mark R on March 26, 2007 at 10:57 am

For the Russians who do not want new passports - No passports then - simple

For the mennonites who do not want new drivers licenses - No license then - even more simple

but Do you need a drivers license for a horse and buggy though?

30. When the ain'ts go marching in

Comment #25339 by Mark R on March 12, 2007 at 8:45 am

"John Turner Said:
I like the sound of groups like CFI, i didnt really know anything about them before. Tis promising."

The CFI group in Toronto (www.cfiontario.org) had a wonderful turn out Sat. Our Local Humanist group was in attendance and we took a few photos which are up on our website. It has some great young blood in it and i feel it will make a big impact in Toronto.

Pictures here:
www.cdrh.humanists.ca/cfimarch102007.html

31. Response to Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

Comment #25131 by Mark R on March 10, 2007 at 9:19 am

Richard Wrote: "It is very believable that somebody as palpably stupid as this would not make a name for himself as an ordinary American called Mark Hanson."

This reminds me of when Christian rock music started to surface in America and opened a wide market and all of a sudden bands that were trying to be mainstream acts but failing they switched over to Christian rock band wagon. What some people will do to get the exposure they are looking for. Hanson saw an opportunity and jumped on it. He may no be true to himself but from what we heard in 6 minutes he doesn't really know what truth is to being with. I guess you can say he has prostituted himself. Now he is getting the attention he has always seeked. The article is quite interesting also.

This is an interesting quote from Hanson(formerly known as) "Islam was hijacked on that September 11 2001, on that plane as an innocent victim."

If he wants to change his name again i have a few ideas :)

32. U.S. Mint goof creates 'Godless dollars'

Comment #24894 by Mark R on March 9, 2007 at 4:46 am

The first one went for $500 then others realized there were more than one. The mutation of money genes has favored us atheists. Lets hope natural selection does too. Whats the chance of an atheist working down at the mint and did a little tampering with the press....naaaaaa couldn't be.

33. How my eyes were opened to the barbarity of Islam

Comment #24762 by Mark R on March 8, 2007 at 11:26 am

Those of us with the avatars are the chosen few! Ah the powers of Atheism. soory couldn't resist....Good question though how some do and some don't have av's. One theory was long submission didn't and short ones did.

34. Atheists Take On Religion

Comment #24225 by Mark R on March 5, 2007 at 11:42 am

I found the part of the interview where the gentlemen after Sam Harris was interviewed said it was time religion got back to claiming the basic principles of religion and he admitted people doing terible things in the name of religion. Isn't that enough to said to say even a person of faith can see the problems within. People are really starting to take notice. I feel positive about the movement us Atheists are making. I have started a local Humanists group in my area and if every community has one the word will spread even faster. More like a stick of TNT than a firecracker.

35. William Crawley meets Richard Dawkins

Comment #23398 by Mark R on February 28, 2007 at 12:05 pm

Its' hard for people or lets say parents to not influence this onto a child. It is also done in sports for an example: A child is born and they have a full Man United strip ready to wear or NFL jersey depending on dads favorite sport or team. Parents are proud of their kids following their foot steps specially in something they deeply believe. Its only natural a parent that believes his religion is "THE" religion then of course they are naturally going to force it upon their kids. If the parent had doubt's about god then letting the child make his mind up comes into it because once again its what the parents believes. I agree its wrong and is abusive but the abuse started along time before the child was born more like generations before. Religious believers are all victims of passed on myths. Only way the children will be freed from this is having parents that are already non believers or are believers but do not practice a religion in the home.

36. William Crawley meets Richard Dawkins

Comment #23393 by Mark R on February 28, 2007 at 11:26 am

Well Kevin it was great you sent it in i throughly enjoyed it. I'm in Canada but a Brit but wasn't sure if commercials are being used or not. I know in North America we have to have commercials because most folks attention spans are not very long. I think thats why soccer has taken such along time to take in the USA since 45 mins of sport without a beer commercial it way to long for some.

37. William Crawley meets Richard Dawkins

Comment #23391 by Mark R on February 28, 2007 at 11:02 am

Quoted from k1mgy on February 27, 2007 at 7:57 pm

"I was a good man.. I was honest.. I was kind. Isn't that more important than belief?"


Professor Dawkins was coupled with a great interviewer who brought out the very best.

I'm glad I was able to see this. Dawkins' final words brought some mist to my eyes.

You are so right this was a perfect way to end a great 30 mins of discussion. North America is so lacking this type of interview though the CBC comes close at times. No commericals either or was that just great editing. It is good to watch and listen and get that feeling of full content with what i know and believe. It was deserving to see Richard have such a rewarding interview since so many panels, debates and interviews are so poorly done by the media presenting them. I can't wait for the next book so we can start watching new discussions all over again.

38. Faith

Comment #23100 by Mark R on February 26, 2007 at 10:16 am

Once again i read articles like this then sit baffled. I wonder if believers block out the want to question their beliefs the same way that it is said that people that get abused when they are young block out the thoughts. Almost like a defense mechanism. I find the fact that believers refuse to question their faith more disturbing than them actually believing in faith. It can be easier for many to believe than disbeleive which allows them to have the same beliefs as a larger group of people. More chance of friends co workers etc. that all believe the same thing. Less chance of a society turning their back on them.

39. Guinness 'Evolution' Ad

Comment #22201 by Mark R on February 13, 2007 at 12:28 pm

one problem with watching this ad and that is it has made me very thristy and i have 2 hours to go before work is done. Though th elineage may be wrong to most believers they won't catch it but they will catch the evolving part :)

40. The questions science cannot answer

Comment #21691 by Mark R on February 10, 2007 at 4:10 pm

Well McGrath is again bashing Dawkins and to be honest i have not enough time to waste to read more than 2 Sentences. McGrath brings nothing new to the table. Same old "the bible said so rubbish". McGrath would have been right at home with Paula Zahn the other night with the other Atheist bashers. As much as you try to ignore these attacks it can get to you as bit. All the hard work work Richard does promoting the truth he must at times hold his head in his hands and sigh i know i do. BUT then after the sigh a breathe of fresh air and back at it.

Mark

41. No stoning, Canada migrants told

Comment #20256 by Mark R on February 1, 2007 at 10:06 am

Well whether or not they have anyone who would want to stone or hurt others in those ways in the population yet it does send a message to anyone planning on going their with such inhumane beliefs. Notihing like making it clear to everyone. Problem here is someone has seen a problem arising and spreading and sooner or later someone will come knocking and want to have the cake and eat it too.

42. Durham Council Votes To Continue Saying Lord's Prayer

Comment #19679 by Mark R on January 29, 2007 at 8:26 am

Linda you are absolutely right and thank you for the supportive comments. I know my strengths and weaknesses and this opportunity to strengthen them and learn and i have. I chatted a lot on the forum and still do but it became like we keep preaching to the choir in a way. So I decided to do more. We are reaching out and we are achieving our goals. As far as Dr. Buckman goes he is one of the most compassionate and wonderful speakers I know of. I am from England and I knew of him from when he was on a tv show Called Don't Ask Me in the 1970s back in Britian. (Showing my age now) It was a great show; he would answer callers and letters with science questions.
He has had a remarkable career. I really liked his approach to treating patients with laugher! We need more like him.

43. Durham Council Votes To Continue Saying Lord's Prayer

Comment #19656 by Mark R on January 29, 2007 at 6:00 am

Whisper, Thank you for your feedback it is always welcome. It is always a tough debate against a believer that will not listen to your point of view. We have listen to theirs that's and our own and made a decision based on both sides. There opinions are only based on their side of the story. Just like debating with friends of family it's a losing battle when others are too stubborn to look at factual evidence in the discussion. I never before done such a thing as to debate on tv live. This was an opportunity for our group in Durham to get a bit of exposure and i must say it has really helped us. The opportunity to debate was a good chance for me to work harder at it. To be honest I would have liked to have got down to the hard fact discussion of belief in god but the theme was the lords prayer in council and everything we seemed to get close to it she pulled us away. I heard quite a bit of feedback saying the pastor seemed a bit arrogant by saying i should have found another country to live in which didn't help him. The community project we are working on is a positive approach to supporting the community. A place where people with doubt's about religion can come for answers and at their pace get introduced to this way of life. It seems that right now you either go from one extreme to another with nowhere in between to perch for a while and take it all in. The other night I had a chat with someone who is joining our first meeting and we chatted for and hour on the phone and I must say it was a breath of fresh air. Wow someone to chat with and not via emails but actually live …real time. That is the type of approach we are taking. Sure we can have deep strong discussions but people first need to get a feel for what it is before committing to a completely different view.

44. Durham Council Votes To Continue Saying Lord's Prayer

Comment #19456 by Mark R on January 27, 2007 at 10:15 am

I noticed a few posts here of others from the Durham region in Ontario Canada. We are CDRH - Clarington Durham Region Humanists and we have a project starting in Our Area. Feel free to contact me regarding more info go to www.cdrh.wordpress.com and get in touch with us.
That day i also appered on City on line in a debate with Pastor Bruce Smith you may remember him from the CFL. It was my first debate on live TV and it went very well. Get in contact and get involved. One of our goals is to show our community the positive life us non believers lead.

45. 12 Year Old Girl Prodigy Paints Pictures of God

Comment #18856 by Mark R on January 23, 2007 at 8:35 am

Well tis is very interesting...i complete made up the part of the paint by numbers... but after reading your comment i figured i better deliver so i did find this first look.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AWESOME-VINTAGE-JESUS-PAINT-BY-NUMBERS-IN-FRAME_W0QQitemZ300072775556QQihZ020QQcategoryZ10900QQcmdZViewItem

please don't bid though

46. 12 Year Old Girl Prodigy Paints Pictures of God

Comment #18852 by Mark R on January 23, 2007 at 8:09 am

After a second look it looks more like George W Bush before he entered Rehab. I went on ebay you can buy all those pictures in colour by number sets! i knew it wasn't real!

47. 12 Year Old Girl Prodigy Paints Pictures of God

Comment #18836 by Mark R on January 23, 2007 at 5:59 am

"Don't break my heart my achy breaky heart"

If this kid paints these she is amazing. wonderful display of artistic ability but i have a hard time enjoying it with christianity splashed all over it. Shame really.

Best part i read was here saying she paints realism. Hmmmm i see a bit of a money grabber her too. Christians have deep pockets for stuff like this. I still think a Jesus velvet glow in the dark picture would do better. A purple thrown in for free.

Funny my brother tried to convert our family at 4 but my dad told him to go to his room.

48. 12 Year Old Girl Prodigy Paints Pictures of God

Comment #18824 by Mark R on January 23, 2007 at 4:45 am

It looks like a amazing I have seen the same image on a grilled cheese sandwich which was sold to a Vegas Hotel for $27,000 by a couple in the USA. So to me i think the girl has just copied the Grilled cheese sandwich. Maybe the Grilled cheese owner can sue her. Personally i see a bit of Elvis in the picture. Maybe Jesus hasn't left the building.

49. Pat Robertson: God told me of 'mass killing' in 2007

Comment #16024 by Mark R on January 4, 2007 at 7:32 am

Another ad campaign to get some funding and weak folk to sign up. "Hey the worlds ending come with us we will save you" Great idea if it were true. For some it is seen as true, so it's pretty easy for us to do the math. This comment wasn't for anyone here posting just for the large population that believe him through their ignorance and lack of truthful education. These people are the ones whom buy the wacko newspapers at the check out. Pat's success is in their wallets.

50. The God Delusion in Private Eye

Comment #11775 by Mark R on December 7, 2006 at 8:41 am

I have Read " The Creation " by E.O.Wilson and that might also do a the trick for a christian to see a different view. Wilson writes a letter to a pastor from his home town and does a good job of weaving in his points to the letter without being over powering which might appeal to someone who is a luke warm christian