1. Sam Harris's Faith in Eastern Spirituality and Muslim Torture

Comment #107846 by harth on January 5, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Excellent article by Gorenfeld, who nicely summarized (rather than misstated) Harris' vile and nonsensical justifications for torture. That Harris also dabbles in the occult was not surprising to me, frankly.

Harris, along with Hitchens, Hirsi Ali (of the AEI) and other pop stars are not here to spread the voice of reason and debunk religion (both worthy pursuits, in my view). They are here to give a psuedo-secular patina of legitimacy to Bush's global massacres.

Harris feins outrage at charges that his Islamophobia is patently racist in nature. Let's go with his oft-cited "ticking bomb" justification for torture, (a verbatim argument to Zionazi Alan Dershowitz' support for torture). If the Japanese had managed to kidnap Harry Truman, would they have the right to torture him if it could save the several hundred thousand innocent men, women and children this atomic terrorist was about to annihilate? Obviously, that would be unthinkable. We torture Muslim fanatics for intelligence (or just plain fun, as the G.I. murderers of Dilawar at Bagram have gone on record admitting). We do not recommend torture for U.S. presidents, no matter how many thousands (millions?) of deaths they are responsible for.

Got a good chuckle though from Harris' newfound affection for Buddhism, which he contrasts with the suicide fanatics haunting the Islamic world. I guess the phenomenon of the Kamikazi (they were Shinto Buddhists) passed him by.

2. Sam Harris's Faith in Eastern Spirituality and Muslim Torture

Comment #107845 by harth on January 5, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Excellent article by Gorenfeld, who nicely summarized (rather than misstated) Harris' vile and nonsensical justifications for torture. That Harris also dabbles in the occult was not surprising to me, frankly.

Harris, along with Hitchens, Hirsi Ali (of the AEI) and other pop stars are not here to spread the voice of reason and debunk religion (both worthy pursuits, in my view). They are here to give a psuedo-secular patina of legitimacy to Bush's global massacres.

Harris feins outrage at charges that his Islamophobia is patently racist in nature. Let's go with his oft-cited "ticking bomb" justification for torture, (a verbatim argument to Zionazi Alan Dershowitz' support for torture). If the Japanese had managed to kidnap Harry Truman, would they have the right to torture him if it could save the several hundred thousand innocent men, women and children this atomic terrorist was about to annihilate? Obviously, that would be unthinkable. We torture Muslim fanatics for intelligence (or just plain fun, as the G.I. murderers of Dilawar at Bagram have gone on record admitting). We do not recommend torture for U.S. presidents, no matter how many thousands (millions?) of deaths they are responsible for.

Got a good chuckle though from Harris' newfound affection for Buddhism, which he contrasts with the suicide fanatics haunting the Islamic world. I guess the phenomenon of the Kamikazi (they were Shinto Buddhists) passed him by.

3. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99146 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 6:20 pm

Is this forum a cheering commitee for the speakers or a serious discussion?

4. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99132 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 5:26 pm

I'd have expected a more spirited defense of someone you elsewhere refer to as your "hero" (even if she is a pathological liar).

5. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99129 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 5:17 pm

I'd have expected a more spirited defense of someone you elsewhere describe as your "hero."

oh well.

6. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99128 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 5:16 pm

Politics aside, Hitchens has no role to play in a discussion of this type. At one point in the conversation, he says that a person identifies himself as a fool if he says "I believe it because the priest told me so" yet literally in the same breath admits that he believes this or that prononcement of science because someone tells him to believe it. He admits he has no capacity to independentally judge the pronouncement's validity. Naturally, because he's scientifically illiterate.

While we're at it, someone should have been there to call Dennett to task for "Consciousness Explained" which may have explained consciousness to Daniel Dennet, though I don't imagine many others were similarly persuaded. His biological determinism, is considered quite anachronistic to many scientists, in light of developments in 20th Century physics. This would have been much more interesting...a discussion of mutually exclusive interesting ideas, rather than reason being pitted against the lowest common denominator, and gloating at its victory.

That's my objection to the 4 Horsemen discussion...it attacked the admittedly childish tenets of religion, covering no new ground in this department, but shied away from deeper questions of how one comes to know things or think that he knows things.

7. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99120 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 4:36 pm

Hi USA.. not sure with whom you are confusing me. At any rate, I think these matters are important. If Dawkins et al are really trying to reverse the tide of religious insanity and foster Enlightenment values, they should studiously steer clear of the likes of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is deliberately inflaming religious animosities and contributing to the "clash of civilizations" mentality that's going to wind up getting all of us killed.

Of all the valiant, articulate opponents of religious lunacy available to hold up as an example, I can't imagine why this self-admitted fraud and neocon true believer ought to be so honored.

8. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99115 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 4:07 pm

ps: if it's true that proceeds of the DVD will in any wise benefit the vulgar schistosome Ayaan Hirsi Ali (whose devotion to freedom, dignity and the rule of law lately has her chumming it up with David Frum, John Yoo, John Bolton, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Lynn Cheney and allied filth at the Nazi-inspired American Enterprise Institute, where she joins them in cheerleading the Iraq holocaust and calling for an encore in Iran), do count me out.

9. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99112 by harth on December 15, 2007 at 3:50 pm

do we not find it laughable that Hitchens of all people sets himself up as a courageous defender of truth and reason?

8 days a week the guy is publishing the most outlandish, thoroughly unsupported lies in his uniformly repulsive articles. His bold devotion to the scientific method causes him to reject, (as one of endless examples I could cite), John's Hopkins' meticulous epidemiological study regarding the cost of Bush's massacre in Iraq. That kind of science clearly doesn't square with Hitchens' own fundamentalist ideology, which in my view, rests on a foundation as flimsy, dishonest and ill-conceived as that of Pat Robertson, Joe Lieberman, Mullah Omar and similar religious crazies.

Mind you, I DO believe atheism is a better approach to reconciling oneself to the world around us, but Hitchens has performed the miraculous feat of making atheism look bad. Through his writings, he has woven a fabric of utter deceit, a hallucinatory representation of world events that bears LESS resemblance to reality than the (admittedly childish) myths of the three great religions.

As Hitchens claims to favor science over superstition, it's only natural that science and reason are held to account for his monstrously distorted perspective. In other words, with friends like Hitchens, Science hardly requires enemies.