1. Dawkins on Darwin

Comment #202370 by Sleep of Reason on July 1, 2008 at 11:52 am

Rod the Farmer (Comment 201098)

Re your earlier comment about the measurement of time; I had a 'discussion' with a few YECs regarding time and used the following.

There are many ways of measuring time, without recourse to genesis. Take stalactites for example. Stalactites are the limestone deposits that develop in water-created caves after the caves have been formed. Modern measurements show that the rate of deposition of calcium carbonate can be 10cm per 1000 years, that is 1cm per 100 years, or 1mm per 10 years. The Carlsbad Caverns have Stalactites which, by these simple calculation, are 11,300,000 years old.

Now, I've read the Creationist websites which state that Stalactites can grow at over 4" (10.16cm) per year, and so they can IF the rock the water runs through is gypsum. The chemistry is totally different and it is almost like liquid concrete. The process with calcium carbonate is formed is different from that of gypsum. The rate of deposition is miniscule when compared to deposition through gypsum. With calcium carbonate 1mm per 10 years is quick!

2. Five Things Humans No Longer Need

Comment #184009 by Sleep of Reason on May 23, 2008 at 11:53 am

'What's more, there are more than 100 medical reports of babies born with tails.'

Did they have horns as well?

3. Non-religious summer camps develop niche

Comment #182447 by Sleep of Reason on May 20, 2008 at 6:33 am

At last a chink of light in the darkness.

4. Vatican: It's OK to believe in aliens

Comment #180015 by Sleep of Reason on May 14, 2008 at 5:37 am

Steady now Quine!

'So, are space aliens subject to Original Sin? If so, they are going to be pretty pissed to hear about it, given that they don't even descend from the A&E on this planet that caused the Big Fall.'

Who says the Garden of Eden was on this planet?

It might just have been in Missouri.

5. On Fitna, the Movie

Comment #178773 by Sleep of Reason on May 12, 2008 at 2:58 am

Cafeeine

You are missing the point, whether you agree with the definitions or not.

Think of Islam as a giant revolving door. there are many ways is but NO WAY out.

If you are born to a Muslim family, you are a Muslim for life.

If you convert to Islam, you are a Muslim for life.

If you ask for an interpretation of the Koran, you are a seeker after truth.

If you question the Koran you are a heretic. If you question often enough you WILL be declared an apostate.

If you denounce Islam, or state that you no longer a Muslim you are an apostate.

At this point you forfeit your right to life.

The whole basis of Islam is total and absolute submission.

6. Faith in Britain today

Comment #177344 by Sleep of Reason on May 9, 2008 at 12:30 am

Religion today is as relevant as the Flat Earth Society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

Which, would you believe, still exists

7. What really goes on at the Large Hadron Collider

Comment #176028 by Sleep of Reason on May 6, 2008 at 11:53 am

They might know what happened 1 billionth of a second after the Big Bang but they still don't know what happened at the beginning :o)

8. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171429 by Sleep of Reason on April 28, 2008 at 1:37 pm

Chris

The fact that they have happened here in the UK is purely incidental.

What is important is that they are almost always committed by Muslims no matter where they are.

And because it is an accepted part of their culture the Police of course took further action. No doubt that this was classed as reasonable chastisement with no further chance of a re-occurrence. At least not with this poor girl.

9. Religion a figment of human imagination

Comment #171413 by Sleep of Reason on April 28, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Johnny O
Post 2
"an interesting article, but they're forgetting that goddidit..."

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

10. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #170045 by Sleep of Reason on April 27, 2008 at 10:02 am

A lot of this 'religious pressure' emanates from Donald Rumsfeld. It was his crackpot idea to send Christian missionaries into Iraq with the troops, 'to convert the heathen'. Because he knew that a beaten country and one freed from the clutches of Sadam Hussein would be only too delighted to show their gratitude by converting to Christianity and becoming a democratic nation.

That's called military planning.

I didn't realise until now that it was the Army themselves who were the missionaries.

11. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169870 by Sleep of Reason on April 27, 2008 at 2:40 am

MorituriMax Post#16

This topic is about the US military, not Islam
or right-wing Christian Fundamentalists in Civvy Street.

In a former life I worked 600 yards from where some of the 7/7 bombers lived, worked and planned; and quite possibly met some of their parents. I meet Muslims on a daily basis and I know from personal experience the risks that Islam presents, whether it be radical or otherwise.

However I can make the distinction between those loony-tunes who can create devastation with home-made explosives, and those loony-tubes who have a bible in one hand and the fingers of their other hand on the button.

12. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169590 by Sleep of Reason on April 26, 2008 at 11:13 am

As a non-American I will feel much safer when they get religion out of the White House and the Pentagon.

Ah well, I can dream.

13. Gunk in T. Rex Fossil Confirms Dino-Bird Lineage

Comment #169588 by Sleep of Reason on April 26, 2008 at 11:07 am

This is not about soft tissue.

Suggest you click on the link and read the full article on CBS.

14. Pope's Views on Science Invoke Spirited Debate

Comment #165378 by Sleep of Reason on April 21, 2008 at 12:23 pm

I think His Wholyness the Pope might like this new scientific slant on the science of renewable resources.

http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=1xw5rXSbmqU

15. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #165050 by Sleep of Reason on April 21, 2008 at 1:45 am

Anti-Semitism was widespread in England after the Crusades. One of the worst atrocities triggered by the Crusaders was the massacre of the Jews in York in the North of England towards the end of the 12th Century.

This was of course thanks to the 'truth spoken by the Roman Catholic Church' that the Jews were 'Christ Killers'.

http://ddickerson.igc.org/cliffords-tower.html

16. Religious education as a part of literary culture

Comment #161448 by Sleep of Reason on April 15, 2008 at 9:58 am

It looks as if 'clearmind' is enjoying the same exotic substances rumoured to have been favoured by the late, great John Lennon when he wrote 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds'

17. The books that inspire me

Comment #158399 by Sleep of Reason on April 10, 2008 at 12:42 pm

NormanDoering

"Ohh! That reminds me... who here has been watching the new Battlestar Galactica on the sci-fi channel:"

I think that if you check the credits at the end of Battlestar Galactica you will see the name - David Ike.

If my memory serves me correctly, it is the same David Ike who was laughed off the Wogan show on UK TVseveral years ago when he claimed that He was the Son of God. Rumour has it that he went to Canada!!

18. The simple falsehood at the heart of Expelled

Comment #158394 by Sleep of Reason on April 10, 2008 at 12:33 pm

philiproulx -

You ask the question, "what prevents us from building our ethical framework on the foundations of evolution, which suggests that we ensure that we are the fittest, and take any means necessary to that end?"

In a word - Humanity!

19. Expelled producers accused of copyright infringement

Comment #158288 by Sleep of Reason on April 10, 2008 at 9:42 am

But these are God-fearin' men. This must be the Devil's work.

I wonder what their sequel will be? 'Wuz we rong?'

20. Russell T Davies: Return of the (tea) Time Lord

Comment #155879 by Sleep of Reason on April 6, 2008 at 7:58 am

Who better than Richard Dawkins evolving into a Time Lord ~ Now that has to be good news ;o)

Catherine Tate? Well, I don't suppose the BBC can get it right every time.

21. Dawkins warns of human extinction

Comment #155100 by Sleep of Reason on April 4, 2008 at 7:08 am

No doubt the Wee Flea was disappointed that he couldn't meet Paula face to face.

22. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #154543 by Sleep of Reason on April 3, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Recent comments on Islam:

http://www.aina.org/news/20080402155722.htm

23. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153759 by Sleep of Reason on April 2, 2008 at 2:03 am

As far as the law in the UK stands, the situation is that a termination of pregnancy 'After the foetus is capable of being born alive', would be classed and charged as Child Destruction. Before that, Abortion.

I appreciate that with improvements in medicine this is not a fixed time but was usually accepted as 28 weeks. Increased knowledge regarding the development of a foetus and at what point they are sufficiently developed to feel pain etc will no doubt have an input into the debate and any future legal proceedings.

This view is also supported by Sam Harris in End of Faith where he discusses the points that crimes are concerned with the pain and suffering that people feel. (Not an exact quote).

It is also recognised under UK law that the emotional effect of giving birth and subsequent mental challenges that mothers of infants face, that any culpable death of an infant under 2 two years of age(In any circumstances) could be charged with Infanticide.

Whilst the law (society) insists on 'its pound of flesh' in that the due process of law must be seen to be done, it is appreciated that under certain circumstances the legal system 'may' take a more lenient attitude when it comes to sentencing.

24. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #153192 by Sleep of Reason on April 1, 2008 at 7:32 am

A new site and cartoon in praise of FITNA:http://www.islam-watch.org/Billy/Mein-Koran-New-cartoons-honoring-Wilders-Quran-Film.htm

25. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152709 by Sleep of Reason on March 31, 2008 at 11:41 am

al-rawandi

I wasn't there but I spent 30 years as a Police Officer ;o) and I am certain the Christopher Hitchens has made mention of it, but I can't remember where. Wish I could.

It's certainly bizarre but ................

26. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152704 by Sleep of Reason on March 31, 2008 at 11:31 am

Al-rawandi

Thanks for the mention of Al-taqyya, the judicious lie.

Recalling an extract from the C4 documentary the Secret Mosque where Muslims are encouraged to study and become Dentists and Doctors so that good Muslim women could be treated by Muslim Doctors do that 'filthy infidels' won't be able to touch them?

Well, the two two Muslims who attempted to blow up Glasgow airport were Doctors. As you might say 'under deep cover', playing the game until it was time to strike.

Quite bizarrely they had prepared for martyrdom including their cleansing rituals by shaving all bodily hair. They had their petrol and their 4x4. They knew that all they had to do was to carry out the will of Allah by killing innocent infidels and paradise was assured. Fortunately they were not too successful. One subsequently died of his injuries and the other arrested. It transpired that although they were going to die in an explosion or be burnt to death, they had wrapped their groins and genitals in wet towels, so that although their bodies would have been destroyed and they would not have lost their good looks their penises and testicles would be in full working order when the 72 virgins, or was it sweet raisins, were delivered to them.

Strange world isn't it?

27. 'We Make Our Own Heaven'

Comment #151560 by Sleep of Reason on March 29, 2008 at 1:40 am

Atheists come together when they see the need. Just like this Forum.

It's a place for the dissemination of information and 'ideas'. Also to find people, at least some people, with similar viewpoints; and to learn from their 'wisdom' and 'humour'.

Trying to organise them is like trying to herd cats.

This is probably why until Richard came along and acted as a focus there was no real central point at which we could gather.

So getting away from the 'Sunday School' approach the fact that there is something acting as a local focus is promising; just as long as the leaders become guides and not those who might set the agenda.

28. Saudi Arabia Leader Calls for Interfaith Dialogue

Comment #150199 by Sleep of Reason on March 26, 2008 at 2:56 pm

"Abdullah said the country's top clerics have given him approval to pursue his idea and that he plans to get the opinion of Muslim leaders from other countries. "

Now, that's what you call a Monarch in charge. Still knowing what they are like in Saudi he's a courageous man.

29. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #150195 by Sleep of Reason on March 26, 2008 at 2:49 pm

Happy Birthday Richard.

In honour of this auspicious event I have had you declared an Honourary Yorkshireman!

That should draw some comment from Mr Hitchens;o))

30. Sue Blackmore debates Alister McGrath

Comment #149283 by Sleep of Reason on March 25, 2008 at 11:47 am

Alabasterocean:

"And give McGrath a brake, he is amusing compared to some of his deluded peers."

This brake? Was it a hand-brake, foot-brake or perhaps a limb, or maybe some other part of his skeleton?

31. Writer Arthur C Clarke dies at 90

Comment #146083 by Sleep of Reason on March 18, 2008 at 3:39 pm

An amazing mind, sadly lost.

32. The atheist delusion

Comment #144055 by Sleep of Reason on March 15, 2008 at 1:47 am

'John Gray's Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia will be out in paperback in April (Penguin) '

Out in April? I thought I'd just reddit:o)

33. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141498 by Sleep of Reason on March 10, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Afraid to Die.

"I'd love to get in between those two in Mitchell Gilk's avatar, even if they were my neighbor's wives"

I did, and I'm stuck at level 6. Just what do I have to do to get to level 7?

In answer to the earlier post. Sorry, I'm not a lawyer. Too honest!

That's it, must lie more! But I got very high on Treachery so it must be something else. I'll try Gluttony, that should be fun.

34. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141314 by Sleep of Reason on March 10, 2008 at 9:04 am

I have an eighth. Promulgating Bronze Age myths as Truth

35. Oklahoma: One Step from Doom

Comment #141308 by Sleep of Reason on March 10, 2008 at 8:59 am

I thought Dorothy lived in Kansas!

36. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #126331 by Sleep of Reason on February 13, 2008 at 2:15 am

wednesdayguevara


You're quite correct.

In retrospect I think that the Honourable Richard would make the better Prime Minister with Hitch as Home Secretary.

In the meantime we shall just have to hope that his genetic lagacy improves the quality of the East Coast gene pool ;o)

37. Exorcism undergoes a revival across Europe

Comment #125990 by Sleep of Reason on February 12, 2008 at 11:00 am

"Demons are able to possess anything with a brain,from a chicken to a human being. "

This means that all Catholic Priests are quite safe.


"Any PC built after 1985 has the storage capacity to house an evil spirit," the minister confirmed.

And I was just going to buy myself a new Dell!


"I learned that many members of my congregation
became in touch with a dark force whenever they
used their computers," he said. "Decent, happily
married family men were drawn irresistibly to
pornographic websites and forced to witness
unspeakable abominations.

I had the same unexplained 'problem' when I was 14. It's called curiosity.

"Housewives who had never expressed an impure
thought were entering Internet chat rooms and found themselves spewing foul, debasing language they would never use normally.

This is called release from sexual repression.

"One woman wept as she confessed to me, 'I feel
when I'm on the computer as if someone else or
something else just takes over.'"

This sounds like unbridled curiosity

38. Exorcism undergoes a revival across Europe

Comment #125978 by Sleep of Reason on February 12, 2008 at 10:47 am

48. Comment #125955 by rod-the-farmer

In a word Rod, NO.

Only when the Priets are satisifed that the exorcism is complete will they desist.

Anything that the victom, sorry possessed one, might say about them wanting to stop, or no longer being possessed, is obviously the Demon or maybe Satan who is trying to get then to stop so that he can carry on with his wicked task.

39. Why multiculturalism must be abandoned

Comment #125898 by Sleep of Reason on February 12, 2008 at 8:30 am

One of the many fact the appears to have escaped the good Dr is the Hadith which says that after his death there would be 73 Islamic Sects. But only one would go to paradise - unfortunately he didn't say which one.

It is also unfortunate that there are now in excess of 150 Islamic Sects so the decision as to who wins the jackpot is even more marginal.

As Pat Condell so rightly pointed out there is no central authority in Islam and each sect has it's own version of Sharia. Furthermore, within each sect, different mosques have there own particular variation. In Islam there is no right or wrong, only opinion; or so it would appear.

So, Dr Williams, which version would you chose and your guess is as good as anyone else's?

40. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #125752 by Sleep of Reason on February 12, 2008 at 1:38 am

279. Comment #125505 by wednesdayguevara

Great piece as usual by Hitch.

He would make a great Prime Minister, if he hadn't become a Yank.

41. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #125501 by Sleep of Reason on February 11, 2008 at 1:16 pm

273. Comment #124960 by Steve Zara

Steve,

'But then they should be given facts from medical experts.'

I don't know how this story broke but it was not an invention of the Daily Mail. They picked it up and in common with several other papers ran the story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/04/nmmr04.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/02/04/por_right.html

In the United States:

http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1156

In fact it was the Daily Mail who published this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/thehealthnews.html?in_article_id=74557&in_page_id=1797


Certainly in the early days no study was carried out and it was only the voices of experts putting forward their personal views in the light of their experience. As shown above this was not restricted to the Daily Mail or to the UK.


With regards to your last point


'Again, we need to know how often this happens - is it normal practice? Or is it (as I suspect) a few incidents, or incidents just at one or two places, blown up considerably to help panic the public and sell papers?'


It takes just one occurrence to set a precedent, 3 to set a trend and 5 to establish one.

The precedent, at least, has been set. Reading the articles in all the papers they obviously have a confidence born of arrogance. Their belief that they can intervene in the British legal system and bribe their way through, and so avoid Somalis facing the Courts, and to be dealt with according to the law beggars belief. The argument put forward by the spokesman (In Islam it couldn't be a woman)that it saves time and money and serves the same purpose is fatuous and irrelevant. It needs to be stopped before any more inroads are made.

42. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124958 by Sleep of Reason on February 10, 2008 at 1:40 pm

Steve, As far as your comments above are concerned as regards headlines I would agree. But you have to read past the headlines.

However we still, in my opinion, have the situation where parents, who only want what they conside what is best for their children to be given choice.

We both know that perception is more importent than truth especially when the waters are, or were at the time, muddied by many conflicting medical reports that the triple jab MAY have been a cause of Autism. When my children were young this was not an issue, but my sympathies lie with those parents who were genuinly afraid of the consequences of getting it wrong. There is no proof that all these parents read the Dail Mail.

As far as bile is concerned in future I'll be sure to wear a plastic apron.

I'm surprised that you referred in your earlier post to stabbing incidents as being relatively minor when they fit the definition of a criminal offence that carries life imprisonment i.e. Wounding With Intent to Wound under S18 of the Offences Against the Pewrsons Act 1861.

This of course was the subject of the original article in the Daily Mail concerning neighbourhoood Somalian Sharia Courts where non-Muslins were bribed not to take the matter to the Police.

43. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124943 by Sleep of Reason on February 10, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Steve, Post 263 Comment #124473.

Whether we like things or not is the point. Our likes and dislikes highlight our prejudices.


The meaning of the article in the Daily Mail was quite clear and was also printed in the London Evening Standard (Matin Bentham - Home Affairs Editor), Telegraph (Joshua Rozenbeg - Legal Editor) and the Times Online. Making sweeping generalisations is never correct, even about a newspaper you dislike intensely.

Please see your Post 26 Comment #116448 (Banks are helping Sharia make a back door entrance)

Your suggestion that, as you so succintly put it, 'The Mail's approach to MMR has been usefully mentioned', which I take to mean the condemnation regarding their attitude allegedly leading to the deaths of children I would say is misplaced.

In this case all the parents wanted was for the 3 innoculations to be given seperately, which was carried out as a norm until the development of the triple jab, and then refused by the Government immediately aftewards.

The fact that several high ranking Offices of Government, including Tony Blair, refused to comment whethe or not their children had received the triple jab or 3 seperate ones did not help matters.

The comment about the Daily Mail being a Tabloid was intended as humourous, I obviously picked the wrong target.

44. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124465 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Steve, the Daily Mail could have done many things but it didn't. It does things in it's own sweet way and if you don't like it well, that's your perogative.

Remember that the Daily Mail is a Tabloid, they don't have as much room as a Broadsheet; unless of course they replaced the sports pages with other newsworthy aticles which I don't think would go down too well with some of the readers.

But, IF you read it you must have far more time than I have if you are going to apply your test to every article.

Diacanu - Not yet, bush is still President.

45. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124427 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 12:07 pm

#124401 by epeeist

I'll take your word for it; I'm too young to remember!! I grew up with Daily Herald.

Don't forget I did make the point 'love it or loathe it'. At least you know where you stand with the DM, and, if the certified figures are correct is has the fastest growing readership of any newspaper in the UK - whatever that means.

I still say that arguing over the editorial stance of the Daily Mail is distracting from the real point of the discussion.

46. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124393 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 10:32 am

#124316 by Roger Stanyard

Now you are being just silly!

If you think that the Daily Mail is extreme right wing then either you don't get out enough, or you don't read enough newspapers.

The editorial stance is towards the right, and they have journalist such as Melanie Phillips who is apparently a Roman Catholic but they are not the rabid right wing rags that you would suggest.

I made the point above that newspapers feed people's prejudices. It is certainly true that the editorial line taken by the Daily Mail in respect of the MMR problem that there may have been evidence that the combined MMR jab was a potential cause of Autism in children. This was a very widely held view, with medical support by Dr Wakefield, and many parents were quite undestandably concerned.

However, parents are the ones ultimately responsible for the medical treatment of their children, and they are the ones who decided that they did not want the combined jab.

They were not against innoculation delivered seperately just the combined one.

Might I suggest that it would suit your arguments better if you concentrated on the article regarding the alternative court system allegedly by the Somalis which is what my original post was about instead of trying to rubblish the Daily Mail.

47. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124309 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 4:32 am

Steve,

All PR is a spin. Whether it is the Daily Mail, Times or an article from E-zines.com. PR is there to feed peoples prejudices, that's why people read it; they either like it or loathe it. The DM even have some good journalists, even Miss Rent-an-Opinion AKA Melanie Phillips, although my stomach isn't strong enough these days to digest some of the article that she pens.

Your choice of the word 'thug' is interesting because they were notsofunny brown people.

My point being that if these incidents are becomming more widely known then the greater the liklihood that they are in fact happening. That being the case then those we refer to as 'the authorities' should take action, and I am surprised that you would think I suggested otherwise otherwise.

Inaction leaves the perpetrators believing that, by default, we don't care or that they have the right under Shariah to act in this manner or that we won't, or daren't, take action, and this in turn feeds their delusions. And nowhere did I suggest that their behaviour would be acceptable to British establishment exactly the opposite.

48. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124272 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 1:56 am

Hi Steve.

I've noticed that you don't like the Daily Mail!

But although I agree with your sentiment that they are right wing, that in itself does not mean the story in incorrect.

Ans if it is, then this issue of kangaroo courts needs to be aired and dealt with as necessary.

49. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #124269 by Sleep of Reason on February 9, 2008 at 1:41 am

From this morning's Daily Mail. It appear that out Somalian Islamic brothers and sister have already taken the Shariah a few stages further.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=513218&in_page_id=1770

Under British Law anyone can permit that they can be 'assaulted', this covers contact sports etc, however no-one can agree to an act of wounding (ie breaking of the skin) or other grievous bodily harm being inflicted on them. This in itself carries a maximum jail sentence of 10 years. If the wounding or grievous bosidly harm is carried out WITH INTENT to wound or cause grievous bodily harm then the maximum sentence is life imprisonment.

This is, IMHO, the true face of religion and that is power and control although the perpetrators assert their 'belief' that they are just saving time and money.

The truth is, if you read the article, that appearing in a British Court of Law on criminal charges would pour scorn and shame of the families involved. And, a 'second offence' would mean that the Somalian clans system would expel those involved from their society. We all know that no-one commits a second offence don't we ;0)!!

We cxan only hope that our elected masters will take due note and over the next 150 years start to put a plan into being before it is too late.

50. Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

Comment #123921 by Sleep of Reason on February 8, 2008 at 2:02 am

Me too.But we're not talking about laws that will oppress anyone.Remember,the two sides have to agree to bind to the judgement.

It may come as a shock to some but Sharia "courts" are already operating in the UK!

Jiten.

I missed most of this debate. It's called sleep.

'Won't oppress anyone?'

1-Under Sharia there has to be at least twice as many female witnesses in proceedings for their evidence to be given the same weight as men.

2-To comply with the 'modest' dress code women have to cover completely. Although many women claim to do this voluntarily, the entire dress code of Niqab, Hajib and Burka were dreamt up by men until it became a cultural norm and this means that females, of all ages, are pre-programmed to what lies ahead. We now have the ludicrous situation whereby female medical students are refusing to expose their forearms to 'scrub up'.

3-Under Sharia a man may divorce his wife by repeating the word 'talaq' on 3 seperate occasions, or even by text on a mobile phone. A woman has to go to one of these 'courts' as you describe them to get a ruling from some elderly man, whose only claim to fame is that he can quote the Koran verbatim. They will tell her that she must wait until her husband has given his side of the story.

4-Under Sharia a man can have up to 4 wives, and can marry at any time after divorce. A woman has to wait for 4 months before she can remarry ~ just in case she might be pregnant. the only reason that this applies is because under Sharia the children would automatically become 'the property' of the husband or ex-husband.

5-Under Sharia women are not allowed outside of the house without the consent of the husband and quite often only when accompanied by a close relative.

Need I go on?

British law, with its freedoms, checks and balances has developed to meet the needs of the populace since 1189 and especially since Magna Carta in 1215.

Sharia has not developed at all. It is still the same as it was 1400 years ago when it applied to desert tribes and has no place in a modern Western Society.