Comments by down_under

Comment #79060 by down_under on October 16, 2007 at 2:32 am

I've noticed alot of people saying we should give Theists respect for their belives.

At first mention this sounds peaceful, even enlightened, but ive come to realise they deserve no respect whatsoever.

These are people who spit in the face of scientific discoveries, the work of Einstein, Darwin and Newton just totally disregarded.

All our technological progress ignored and mankinds achivements forgotten.

These are people who actually dont belive in Evoloution! Treat it as a religious faith rather than an extreamly likely scientific theory!
Then they teach theyre, frankly dangerous belives, to children!

These are people who live in a fantasy world and want the rest of us dragged down into it with them.
They belive animals and plants once talked and that firebreathing dragons will one day kill us all
They belive love pours from the sky from a supream being who demands worship.

They belive that people can be turned into salt and the the enitre globe was once flooded ignoring all the other ancient civilisations who didnt notice this global flood.
They belive 2 of each animal (and dinosaur) lived on a boat together for 40 days

They belive all people are inbred
They belive dinosaurs, and everything that lived before dinosars and between man and dinosaur, all lived together at the same time.
They belive the entire universe is only 6000 years old and ruled by something that is invisible yet looks like man.

They belive in an afterlife but not a beforelife
They belive in infinate punishment for finate crimes.
They belive people can rise from the dead and then fly into the sky.
They belive inanimate objects can turn into animals
Thye belive in an all loving God who created hell

They belive they can enjoy a heaven why fellow human beings burn in hell

These are not only ridiculous, but disturbing, and even more so when you teach these things to Children!

These people deserve no respect at all!

If you dont pray in my school, I wont think in your Church.....

2. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #76720 by down_under on October 6, 2007 at 11:05 pm

Hi everyone
just passing through again, iv been (and am still on) a little round the world trip so no real time to post or reply or ask questions wotever!
Just to let u know i am still popping in every now and again and reading the posts, although we dont seem to have progressed at all!

Im pleased to see that others have now noticed, and are getting fustrated, by Marks inability to answer simple 5 second questions, usually the ones he should be trying to answer rather than his usual tactics of just going in circles. (read my earlier posts......admittidly a long way back.....to see what i mean)
I totally agree with walk and have been in that position too many times

My favorite questions (which mark never did answer) was why he does not worship Nostradeamus or Jules Verne!

Also, on another note, if anyone ever visits South America it may put you off Christianity forever! Christ these people did horrible things to the native Incans! (all in the name of Christ!) almost makes Islamic Fundies look as peaceful as they claim to be!!

3. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49801 by down_under on June 13, 2007 at 1:46 pm

I see Mark is still rambling on about his prophecies, some things never change

You know I all but disprooved his silly prophecie argument months ago but rather than defend himself he simply ignored what I had to say then continued merrily believing, how very Christian of him!

It also seems weird he puts so much faith on these vauge nostrodamus style writtings (though oddly not Nostradaumus himself) and just ignores all the other silly crap in the bible

Believing seems to involve alot of ignorance

4. Baptists Warned About Islam, Atheism

Comment #49661 by down_under on June 12, 2007 at 7:57 pm

I agree, Christianity is bad, Islam is worse, Christianities history may be dog-awful but with Islam its the present!

All religions are harmful,Islam just more obviously so.

"Danish Mohammad Cartoons . "What better way to show the world how peaceful we are than by threatning to kill all those who suggest otherwise""

5. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #49660 by down_under on June 12, 2007 at 7:43 pm

A few reasons the Bible is nonesense and God is a big fat phoney

#1) To start with, I have personally never seen, heard, touched or felt God in any way, shape or form... and I once called myself a Christian.
#2) There is no evidence to show that God does exist... except for that crying Mary statue in Puerto Rico.
#3) The Bible doesn't make sense. From that fantastic talking snake in the beginning to our breath taking finally of horsemen, dragons and Philadelphia.
#4) Eternal paradise for the noble act of believing stories. So Heaven's gonna be all about who's the most gullible?
#5) How come God got tired on the sixth day? This is the same God who hears every prayer right?
#6) The Bible was written hundreds of years after Christ's death by people who'd heard the stories. Did you ever play that game "telephone" when you were a kid?
#7) 900 year old people? I'd love to see what that looks like! Yikes!
#8) Did God make every planet with "love" in mind? Like Mars. Is Mars all about love too?
#9) Why is it that God calls life a gift for us yet we are automatically destined for eternal suffering? Isn't He thinking this through? And the bastard's still making souls! What a prick.
#10) How come there isn't any evidence of the earth ever being entirely flooded over? And don't say "the Devil's mop". I'm sick of that answer.
#11) How do you have eternal paradise when your loved ones go to Hell? Is brainwashing involved?
#12) Why does God want us to worship Him again? We're all like so teeny tiny... like smaller than ants to Him, and I only command a small portion of the ants to worship me.
#13) Have you seen the faces of those guys who wrote the Bible? Yeesh! And Peee-uuuu... I bet.
#14) Did you know that when the Bible was written people didn't know which plants were food and which ones were severe mind altering poisons?
#15) Why didn't God make another place for us to go to besides Hell if we were just honestly being misled by Satan? He could've made that back when He made the heavens and the earth couldn't He have?
#16) Everything entirely based on faith? Come on. That's the mating call of a liar.
#17) Do you think that testing God is a sin because if it wasn't He'd fail that test?
#18) I think people would rather have eternal paradise instead of nothing. That says a lot.
#19) Why didn't God give Himself a whispery voice so at least we could get Him on record? That'd be a huge help and think of all the souls it'd save!
#20) If our planet would have been created when the Bible says it was then it'd be only 10,000 years old or so. I've heard some of those crazy scientists claim that the universe is billions of years old! Those crazy scientists.
#21) She turned into a pillar of salt? What kind of moron do you take me for?
#22) Okay, so we're all supposed to be impressed by God's sacrifice of His only begotten son. Does this mean that Jesus is stationed in a separate dimension away from his dad to keep this sacrifice valid?
#23) I think that the complete lack of scientific knowledge is the reason why the guys who wrote the Bible thought the world was flat and Columbus had to be the one to prove them all wrong. That's what I think.
#24) So there weren't ANY rainbows before Noah?
#25) Um, by the way, science explains evolution rather well.
#26) I think that God isn't looking out for our best interests. I think He should take a little bit more charge of things and stop being so selfish about needing everybody's love. I mean Christ, grow up!
#27) Do you feel lucky that you were born into the right religion? I mean, what are the chances?
#28) While we're at it, who was that Tree Of Life for anyhow?
#29) I think it's funny how people can't imagine their life just ending but we've no problem laying that destiny on ugly animals.
#30) Do you think that we just want answers to be waiting for us on the other side? I mean, it is our nature.
#31) I don't think God anticipated us one day digging up all of those dinosaur bones and finding out what a fibber He is.
#32) So there was once a time when the blood of sheep was enough to quench God's thirst of living sacrifices for sin?
#33) When that one guy saw that flaming bush talk to him was he ever given a drug test or anything?
#34) You know all of those giants that were walking around, like the one David knocked down with his sling shot? Have we ever dug up one of these huge guys? Hmmm?
#35) I think it's funny how Jesus fucked up and said that the mustard seed is the smallest seed in Mark 4:31. Uh duh! What about the South American orchid seed Mr. Messiah? What a bafoon Jesus was! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
#36) So no one else in the entire world had a boat besides Noah?
#37) God punished the snake for once getting possessed by Satan and now all the snakes must suffer?
#38) What's the effect sin has on our ever expanding universe again? And does that include little white lies to spare people's feelings too?

I rest my case, silly Bible, silly Christians.....this list was longer but i got tired! hahaha

6. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #18463 by down_under on January 21, 2007 at 4:27 am

Quetzalcoatl

Mark has indeed listed many prophecies, however if you read my replies to his prophecies most of them are easily explainable or ridiculosly criptic.
There are also many many incorrect prophecies that mark likes to ignore and he fails to comment on other accurate predictions from people such as Jules Verne.
He also belive the bible because of the prophecies and just dosent comment on all the other ridiculous stuff in the bible, i think deep down he knows how silly it all is but doesnt want to admit it too himself.

If you read my responses to Mark you will also notice how he ignores what he doesnt like and eventually now ignores me as i guess i was questioning his faith too much.

Good luck Quetzalcoatl but i fear you are merley wating your time on mark, once you begin to make too much sense im sure he'll just put his fingers back in his ears and go back to his cave, just like he did with me.

7. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #18252 by down_under on January 19, 2007 at 6:00 am

Shaun

I will answer your rather bizzare responses to my replies when i have time, tey are quite simple easy to write off, THEO - i will also respond to you when i have time......oh dear what have i gotten myself into! thisforum is takingup more and more of my life! haha

Shaun i forgot to add one more piece of logic that throws your whole arugment out the window

You say man created these things, ofcoursethat is true, but man created these things out of the materiels in his possession, using these materials, we designed and created towers, sculptures, technology etc, and also with knowledge that had gotten more in depth over time as it was passed down through the generations.

Now yuou are telling me that god, created an infintie and hugley complex universe, with no materials, no obtained or researched knowledge (as he was alone and "knows everything" *chukle*) nothing there for him to use (and i mean literally nothing!) and yet he created the universe, the effiel tower did not come from nothing.

So you see you really cant compare the 2, it is just (yet another) ridiculous theist analogy that means next to nothing.......i will still however address your respones in time and apologise for not adding this point sooner

but i think you'll agree you cant argue with the logic in my statement above!

8. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #18111 by down_under on January 18, 2007 at 11:37 am

Shaun

I see what you're doing, yes all those things were designed by man

So wow! man can design amazing things so therefore something as amazing as the earth must be designed by something better than man, we dont know what and dont want to use our brains too find out, so it must be........a god!

Shaun I will shoot down your inferior logic *smug grin*

1. Man created those things yes, but did he did not create the basic elements that make those things, and everything you described is far less complex than the earth, let aloen the universe! and therefore easier to design

2. Each thing was designed for a purpose, be it astetics or information, what is the purpose for god to desing an entire universe?

3. How long did mount rushmore take Shaun? or the eiffel tower? or even the invention of a pc monitor! even a newspaper when you take into consideration how long it took man to invent paper, the printing press etc........much longer than 6 days!!

4. we see evidence of man designing and building these marvels, where do we see evidence of gods designs? any blueprints for the universe?

5. the earth, and more obviously the universe, are constatnly changing, altering themselves, galaxys sucked into blackholes, moons thrown out of orbit, continental shifts on earth, and all for no apparant reason other than physics makes it happen, when was the last time the eiffel tower suddenly altered itself?

6. the earth and the universe have so many flaws yet mans designs have few, are we better than god?

7. so much planning went into these designs, did god plan the universe? did it take him 4 days? ;-)

8. do you know how many people it took to get that eiffel tower standing? or to invent and mass produce the computer monitor? far more than one! and they are all extreamly simple by comparisson to the universe

9. you are saying the earth is designed by listing all the things man designed, how about i list all the things man DIDNT design and use that as evidence the earth wasnt designed.......now do you see how silly your statement is? (note, the amount of things we didnt design far outnumbers the things we did, so id win!)

shaun your argument comes down to "man designed the eiffel tower so god designed the unvierse"

and it is simply unfair and slightly retarded to compare te entire universe to a handful of man-made marvels......which i might add we understand everything about including step by step instructions of how and why they are there.

You are saying everything has to be designed by something, that is the point you are making, so lets turn that on you, What designed God?
oh you say he was always there! why is he exempt from the "everything must be designed" rule???

where is your evidence he was always there?

im sure you now realise how stupid youv made yourself look

try harder shaun

9. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17902 by down_under on January 17, 2007 at 11:31 am

Mark

"You seem determined to pay very little attention to what I write. You casually dismiss it all, without any specific reasoning"

No Mark, I gave up reasoning with you when it became apparant your brain didnt respond to it
I at first answered all your posts paragraph by paragraph (if you care to scroll back and see) but no matter what point I raised you merely repeated yourself, prooving nothing, over and over
We were stuck in a loop mark, common for theists to initiate this strategy, and I got tired of it
You are impossible to reason with so I stopped trying.

"By contrast, when I have taken up some of your points, I have genuinely tried to provide detail and reason that explains my position"

You have done this occasionally not always, sorry I guess as im more used to science im used to quick, logical, comlpex though explainable answers straight away that instantly make sense.......yours im afraid do not.

"You accuse me of not answering all your points. But you throw so much stuff out - some of it simply copied from questions other people have raised - that I simply would not have enough time to do so"

Most of the questions were copied off myself which you had continuosly ignored (and you STILL havnt answered them)
Mark the questions you ignore are small simple questions,some requiring only a fraction of thought, yet you ignore them, it seems to me you ignore them because you cant answer them becuase they really are straight forward questions.

(Jules Verne and the bibles incorrect prophecies are prime examples)

The fact your bible cant answer simple questions like this and the fact that it cant stand up to the scrutiny it deserves says alot

"The general character of your responses to my comments, over the past few weeks since I first responded to you, leads me to think that you are just not prepared to consider my words carefully"

I was listening to your words carefully, however you kept on saying the same thing with different words, repeating yourself without even realising, we were going in circles and i couldnt reason with you (dont feel bad, most theists act like this when backed into a corner of logic).....as i said earlier, i got fed up.

"So, as from this post, I am unwilling to devote any more time or effort in responding to you"

How convineant.....dismiss me before answeing the questions, dismiss the one who constinantly putsyour points down, dismiss the one who is showing you how wrong you are, dismiss the one you cant win an argument with, dismiss the one who finally puts the bible under the scrutiny it deserves and makes you realise it cant handle it!..............how very Christian! heck had this been 500 years ago im sure id be burning by now!!!!

Which reminds me you havnt said anything about my Dark Age comment......as that was the last time the world thought like you.....interesting

"P.S. No, I don't live in the US. A little research, based on the content of the flyer that appears at the top of each and every page of this thread, will give at least a clue to where I do live."

I really dont care that much, jsut thought it would be easier to ask, your mentality is just like what so many idiot christian fundies in the US are like I assumed you were one of them.

Well as from now on (now you were finally realising the truth and couldnt answer your beleifs) as your going to put your fingers back in your ears, close your eyes and continue to hum "lalala jesus is real lalala bible is true lalalala god is love lalalala damn science lalala" I shall leave you to it

enjoy your fantasy world, maybe il see you in reality one day (though i doubt it)

10. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17898 by down_under on January 17, 2007 at 11:23 am

Theo:

"Sorry about that. What I meant to say was God used Satan to test man (i was tired!)"

Ah ok.....so.......where does it say God used Satan to test man then? care to sharethat knowledge you have acquired?

And why would God use Satan, why would he need to, then why would he punish satan if satan was just doing gods will?

god - "hey satan test man for me, pretend your a talking snake or something"
satan - "hey god! ok sure anything for you man, il get right on it!"
god - "cheers bud"
man fails gods test
god - "hey satan had to punish all the snakes for the rest of eternity for doing my will, even though it was actually just you, i think its fair
satan - "well you are god i suppose"
god - "yeah, oh that reminds me, your punished too!"
satan - "but why god??? you told me to do it!!!"
god - "T/S bitch i can do what i want!"

on top of that unlikely scenario why is god testing man in the first place, if he loves us and wants us to belive in him and come to heaven then why would he keep testing people who already belive? god sounds really childlish and mean!
and why was he so mad at them if he put the test there? and why would he test them at all, he can afterall see past present and future!!

try harder theo try harder!!!!

"That someone was you D_U."

read idiot:

genesis 3:13
"And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done?"

why would he ask??

"Look at it, you asked me why we don't see human and dinosaur fossils together. I then stated that seeing the rarity of fossils it would be improbable to see that"

Theo it would be impossible because the dinosaurs died out millions of years before the 1st human walked the earth
this is fact theo wether you accept it or not! dinosaurs have been found to roam together you know, hadrosaurs with sauropods and being hunted by theropods, all found together, a fossil of a velociraptor locked in a fight with a protoceratops exists and on top of that, all the dinosaur fossils, and footprints that have been found (aswell as all other lifeforms) have been carbon dated and although they havnt been found roaming together their dates match!

there were 3 different periods of dinosaurs, Triassic, Jurrasic and Cretaceous, it is not coincidence that a stegasaurus fossil has never been found with a t-rex and also not coincidence that the carbon dating prooves the stegosaurus died long before the t-rex was born, they didnt live at the same time, and neither did humans.

you also forget about all other animals, it wasnt just dinosaurs, there were the giant birds that roamed after the dinosaurs, the giant mammals that existed at the dawn of man, the many different species of human that have been discovered (the missing links you claim dont exist) aswell as the amphibians and mammal like reptiles that existed before the dinosaurs

did all their babies fit on the ark? ofcourse not! where the other humans ignored by god? ofcourse not! do all the carbon dates of all the other species also match with the periods they lived in? ofcourse they do!

why? because it is scientific fact, leading to the only real conclusion that these particular parts of the bible are nothing but B/S

"No no D_U, I understand what you are saying but that is not what I meant sorry, lol! The reason I said it is paradoxical is because there is no natural explanation for supernatural events. In other words, if I could explain it, then it is not a supernatural. That is why I was saying a miracle with an explanation is paradoxical.
Scientists' not understanding the origin of matter was the furthest thing from my mind!"

Then what supernatural events are you referring too?
and as i said, just because we dont understand something, does not make it supernatural! please leave the 16th century theo!!

"There is a division of opinions in the issue. Whatever happened before the big bang is pure speculation. The majority of the material that I have read holds the opinion that the singularity always existed (something always existed), the other side of the fence probably holds that matter came from nothing, though personally I have never seen such literature, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. "

Your reasons for not beliving in the whole "everything from nothing" situation (which i have constantly tried to explain to you is an assumption as we do not know, and that does not make it god) actually make it more unlikely that a highly intelligent complex human looking creator exists, your very arguement can be used against you and with more effect!
billy even pointed this out to you previously!! how can you not see this?
im baffled as to how your brain works!
that is the point i was making!

and yes before the big bang is pure speculation, but the big bang has not only been prooven to have happened (by the fact that the universe is expanding) but also that it happened approx 14 billion years ago (by measuring the distance of the galaxys from eachother) you seem to accept the big bang so how can you accept the claims in the bible? the bible claims are obviously false!

"The bible is not Gods word because it does not mention animal redistribution? Ok then."

yep exactly! why did god not explain how the animals made their way home! it surley must have been an epic journey!!!

"For the second time (I think I am getting accustomed to this), the serpent was transformed so that man can see the severity of sin. We do not see serpents groaning in pain because of the punishment do we?"

Nope we dont, for 2 reasons:
1. snakes cant groan
2. it didnt actually happen

did you know snakes are deaf theo, its true, i keep them i know, they dont even have ears! so how did the snake hear eve? or god for that matter!!!!

and from the snakes point of view its a bit unfair that he should crawl around just to teach man a lesson, it also doesnt explain why god punsihed ALL snakes for ever and ever, they still crawl now!! how cruel of your god!!! my pet snakes didnt do anything wrong!!!

and anyway god hardley kept his promise, the severity of sin! we didnt loose our limbs when god got fed up he drowned everyone!!!
evil evil god!!!
and why did he even get mad? surley he saw it comming? i mean he sees the future and all, and then the question begs why did he do the flood in the 1st place, if he sees all knows all past present and future then he knew we'd all b ok so why flood?!?!

theres a reason you cant answer these questions theo, the bible is false!!!!

"A better question would be, "why did God curse the entire earth for one sin?""

No it wouldnt theo my women in labour question was good enough so please just answer it, i know you like to avoid answeing simple questions but thats only because a suitable answer doesnt exist!!

" Because of that one sin, man would now have to suffer the consequences of being separated from God. Because of the evils of this life, we have a taste of being separated from God, and that is why Christians serve God the way He prescribes so that at the end of time, believers would have an eternal relationship with Him. "

Hang about, so we sin and god ignores us, how childish!!!!! and you can really enjoy heaven knowing loving humans will burn in hell just for not beliving?
and have a relationahip with him!! haha theo have you ever had a proper conversation with god? no? some relationship!!

God seems very childish, self loving, mean and demanding! i dont think he deserves worship!!

and so basically are you saying its ok that all humans are punished for the 1 act of 1 human? thats not justice theo thats bullying, if a world leader did that he'd be punished for warcrimes and crimes against humanity!! god surley deserves to be punished aswell!!!

and i thought jesus died for our sins anyway? so why the seperation and constant punishment still? does god enjoy punishing? he seems to!!!

wow theo i feel sorry for you!!! worshipping such an evil god!!

"The beasts in revelation are not literal beasts, they are symbolic and represent real entities such as nations, leaders etc."

Ah!!! so you admit some of the bible is metaphorical!!! this is a big step for you theo!!!
so if this isnt literall, why not other things? why isnt the flood metaphorical or the snake? who picks and chooses whats real and what isnt? maybe the whole thing is metaphorical!!!

you cant have it both ways theo!!!! and you know christadelphians belive the WHOLE bible is literal! even the dragon!! silly huh!!!

i have been called away theo so il answer the rest of your comment when i have the time
to be continued...........

11. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17692 by down_under on January 15, 2007 at 2:42 pm

12. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17691 by down_under on January 15, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Theo

Haha are you real? haha im sorry im just laughing at some of the things you said in your last post hahaha do you honestly belive all that? I mean seriously! i guess your not as sane and logical as I originally thought hahahaha

*phew*

ok theo , I will expain why its all so amusing(I RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO READ THEOS RESPONSE TO ME, IT MAY BE LONG BUT ITS UTTERLY HILLARIOUS) but as its long i do not have time today.......tomorow I shall bear al (and I cant wait!!)

you know once we get to the real difficult questions we see how theists struggle to answer what they belive in and the results theo, are hillarious posts as the one you have just provided me with!

I cant wait to rip into it tomorrow oh boy!!!!

13. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17654 by down_under on January 15, 2007 at 9:49 am

Theo.....have you too given up trying to argue with my obviously superior logic (only superior mind because unlike yours it actually IS logcial)

how can you honestly still belive when you cant even convince yourself!

ATHEISTS - Am I the only one fustrated here by Theist ignorance?? Are we wasting our time? maybe we should just let them continue in their little blind ignorant fairytale dreamland and leave their bubble intact?

14. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17651 by down_under on January 15, 2007 at 9:43 am

Mark

The fact that you had to do SO MUCH explaining and translating in comment 736 only goes to proove my point that this is truly not a very clear prophecy at all!
- you are seeing ONLY what you wish!!! if only you could see this passage from a normal point of view but i guess your parents did a great job brainwashing you when you were a child!!

Trust me Mark your prophecy doesnt predict half the things you say it does and it could be applied to any number of things if you translate it different! You just cant because of your blindless to the obvious and (as I keep saying) refuse to see anything other than what you want to see in that passage!!!

You MUST live in the US right? I mean someone with your mentality can only be american!!
Anyway......my attempt to rope you in with sarcasm apparantly worked!

I know, I know sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but how do you know the person who said that wasnt being sarcastic when he said it? ;-)

I could answer all of your odd bible ramblings but to be honest theres alot and I havnt got the time, I will point out one that did however make me chuckle

"The point is simple: Jews (or indeed people of any other ethnic group) weren't living in the cities before this prophecy was fulfilled"

Belive me mark if there are cities there people will inhabitat them, its not much of a prophecy
and as for your explanation of self-fulfilling........well i mean you didnt really explain it at all, your whole explanation just really seemed to highlight how they fullfilled it.

infactcome to think of it mark, your entire comment 736 was a poor attempt at an explaination of prophecies for these reasons

1: you prooved my point of how unclear the prophecy was by explaining and translating oh so much of it!

2: Everything you responded with can STILL be explained by my explainations of prophecies (I suggest you re-ead my explanations)

3: you STILL are yet to comment on all of these points which obviously catch you and your medival belief out!......

"I demonstrated to you what a clear passage would be and pointed out that if the bible truly was the word of god who sees all and knows all past present and future, then that kind of accuracy would not be a problem (infact it would be expected)

"In the month of september in the year of 2001 two flying machines built by man will be stolen by sevants of Allah and flown into large buildings in the sky causing them to crash to Earth"

you have also still failed to comment on Jules Verne

and you are conviniantly ignoring this:

i also provided many bible prophecies that
a) havnt come true (you could argue they will one day)
b) cant come true
and c) contradict eachother

if the bibles prophecies are so great....then how can this be?

plus you could also just argue that phycic people actally exist
do you belive in phycic people?

i also dislike them because just because there are 1 or 2 accurate prophecies, does that really excuse all the other ridiculous things in the bible?

why do you ignore these issues they're quite important, do you , like most theists, only pick and choose what to answer and ignore what you cant, then continue on with your blind faith?"

Mark I fee all logic evades you and im running out of patience, as I have said many times, you are seeing only what you want to see and nothing else, you are blinded by faith, in your mind mark you are screaming out

"MY EARS ARE DEAF TO ALL BUT THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE!!!"

and that mark is a dangerous way to think

im begiging to think arguing with theists is rather pointless because from my experiences with you Mark, aswell as Theo and Shaun you seem to...

a) Ignore scientific facts
b) ignore logic
c) ignore what we say if its something that catches you out!
d) ignore the obvious flaws, innacuraces and contradctions in the bible, or pathetically try to explain them (to yourself more than us i fear)
e) have some strange circular logic you seem to love so much
and finally f) think that bible quotes actually mean anything to us!

im sorry mark but i have clearly (yes clearly) pointed out to you that these prophecies mean and proove nothing and you still blindy igonore my points!
There is no hope for you , your mind is completly brainwashed

15. Send a Message to God: He has gone too far this time

Comment #17537 by down_under on January 14, 2007 at 3:36 pm

In the UK a few weeks ago a little girl slept walked out the window and fell 3 floors onto some old matresses, she broke her arm and fractured her leg as well as some mild head and neck injuries....her parents said "the angels must have been looking over her" (referring to the soft landing i guess)

the angels must have been distracted when she started sleep walking and climbed out the window then?

16. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17429 by down_under on January 13, 2007 at 4:10 pm

Mark

"Please say, which bits of the above verses (i.e. which particular words or phrases) are not clear to you? "

I find the whole of your quote unclear!!
and im sure many other non-christians or people who can see what is written and not the meanings they wish to see will agree with me!

im also going to over-analyse this, from a lamens point of view so i apologise in advance for my sarcasm, i just want you (and everyone else) to see how unclear this is

"8 But you, O mountains of Israel, you shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come."

What does this mean? Isreal will expand? israels people will branch out? isreal wil have a good harvest? its not very clear

"9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and you shall be tilled and sown:"

come again?

"10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be built:"

wow god predicts that the cities will have people living in them, kudos
and wastes shall be built? what does that mean??

"11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and you shall know that I am Yahweh."

God will multiply upon me? i dont want to be raped!
so god is predicting that man and beast will multiply, another amazing prediction, the beasts will bring fruit? clever beasts.
so the isralites find a new place to live and god says its him? (another self-fulfilling prophecy perhaps?)

"12 Yes, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess you, and you shall be their inheritance, and you shall no more henceforth bereave them of men."

So god will posses them? not very nice thats what satan does, and i dont even understand the rest of this

Mark this is about as clear as a florida swamp in a hurricane, the fact you think it is clear in anyway only goes to show how blind you are the obvious, as i said you are seeing what you want to see.

Plus i noticed you went in a little circle earlier, you show a prophecy that is obviously self-fullfilling, i point it out, so you then show a prophecy that cant be self-fulfilling, i explain that prophecy and so then you go back to your original?
how bizzare?

As i said earlier, your description of "plain" and mine differ greatly!

open your eyes man!

17. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17426 by down_under on January 13, 2007 at 3:56 pm

Mark

All you have done in comment 731 is proove my point, for a 3rd time, so once again........bravo

It is indeed cryptic, you have merely translated it to show what you think it means.
Th fact that you had to translate it only shows just how cryptic it is.

I see it for what it really is, cryptic nonesense that could be applied to any number of things......just like Nostradaumus

As I have said many times before, you are blinded because you are seeing what you want to see in these passages and nothing more

I demonstrated to you what a clear passage would be and pointed out that if the bible truly was the word of god who sees all and knows all past present and future, then that kind of accuracy would not be a problem

"In the month of september in the year of 2001 two flying machines built by man will be stolen by sevants of Allah and flown into large buildings in the sky causing them to crash to Earth"

you have also still failed to comment on Jules Verne

and you are conviniantly ignoring this:

i also provided many bible prophecies that
a) havnt come true (you could argue they will one day)
b) cant come true
and c) contradict eachother

if the bibles prophecies are so great....then how can this be?

plus you could also just argue that phycic people actally exist
do you belive in phycic people?

i also dislike them because just because there are 1 or 2 accurate prophecies, does that really excuse all the other ridiculous things in the bible?

why do you ignore these issues they're quite important, do you , like most theists, only pick and choose what to answer and ignore what you cant, then continue on with your blind faith?

18. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17412 by down_under on January 13, 2007 at 11:57 am

I also added:

Does anyone convinced by bible prophecies fancy commenting on the following?

Jules Verne (more accuratly, more recently and less cripticly predicted several future events)

and Nostradaumus, who is cripitic and requires translation, but no more so than the bible

i also provided many bible prophecies that
a) havnt come true (you could argue they will one day)
b) cant come true
and c) contradict eachother

if the bibles prophecies are so great....then how can this be?

i dislike the prophecy arguments because (as we stated earlier in the thread) they are too innacurate and all go down to translation and us already knowing the events that have or are taking place and therefore comparing them (like with nostradaumus)

plus you could also just argue that phycic people actally exist
do you belive in phycic people?

i also dislike them because just because there are 1 or 2 accurate prophecies, does that really excuse all the other ridiculous things in the bible?

19. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17411 by down_under on January 13, 2007 at 11:54 am

Mark

You failed to aknowledge the rest of my point,
Self fullfilling prophecies explain many of the bibles prophecies but obviosly not all, undesriablt prophecies such as Deuteronomy 28 arweobviously not going to be self fulfilling, that would be a bit stupid on the jews part.

you merely found one undesirable prophecy, and picked it out to highlight it, a common theist technique, to comment only on what you can, to pick and choose,and ignore the rest

However my other points can clearly apply to Deuteronomy 28.

For a start it makes very little sense, it is so criptic it can apply to almost anything, you are yet again just seeing the meaning you want to see in it and nothing else.

it is this short-sighteness in prophecies which can be quite dangerous

here is the rest of what i said, which can easily apply to deuteronomy 28:

"And as I have stated before prophecies such as that can be easily assigned to events that have happened/are happening once we compare them, that is why Nostradaumus is always considered accurate and why prophecies must not be taken seriously, ad also prooves everything is down to how you translate it."

"if a bible prophecy said:

"In the month of september in the year of 2001 two flying machines built by man will be stolen by sevants of Allah and flown into large buildings in the sky causing them to crash to Earth"

my idea of "plain" i might add!

it would be a little bit differet, and ofcourse if the Bible is true, and writen by god, who really can see the future, then this sort of accuracy is not only easy, its expected, which is why bible prophecies proove nothing."

20. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17262 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 11:19 am

Isnt it also such a co-incidence that snakes, an animal we have a natural fear of*, are evil in the bible
as well as being evil throughout many other myths, ledgends and relgion throughout history (notably the egyptians)

*though not me i love snakes, beautiful facinating creatures i actually keep them as a hobby :-)

21. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17261 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 11:14 am

Shaun

"In fact the postulation of secular science re the origins and development of life are highly IMPROBABLE"

ok I may have over exadgerated by saying Highly probable (just like you are over exadgerating now)

the fact is it is still more probable than a creator, and too be honest i prefer not knowing and having the scientific mystery of trying to find out!
notonly is it more honest, intelligent, fullfilling and logical, but its also simply more fun! i love the mystery!

simply saying "oh its god there done" stops us from questioning and studying
it halts progress!!

as iv said many times (which no theist has yet commented on)

The last time everyone thought like this, that is to say how creationists (and you yourself) think, it was called the Dark ages!!!

22. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17259 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 11:02 am

Shaun

"Random mutation and natural selection can do anything"

i have never heard this before, im pretty sure random mutation will not fit millions of (long extinct - fact wether you like it or not) dinosaurs on a 450ft ark!

natural selection will not speak to noah and tell him to save the world (so to speak) or turn mosses staff into a snake

im pretty sure neither can destroy a city because they were annoyed
also this statement is a huge misinterpretation of what we belive when i comes to natral selection

natural selection cannot do anything, it simply means the fittest of the animals will survive, then obviously as trates are passed down through generations, have fitter offspring

i do not understand your annology here they do not seem to be linked.

Plus the difference is, EVERY one of you statements can be tested in some way or another, or has had tests done to lead to the assumption, plus NOTHING in science is certain and is therefore subject to change.

You belive God is certain and not subject to change, therefore does not need to be tested or questioned......a rather medieval outlook

If you can provide we with a test to proove that God can do anything, and i mean a scientific test, not "god can do anyfing coz it sez so in da bible" then i will re-tract my statement

23. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17257 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 10:54 am

Shaun

Hi, i havnt read all of your post for JC yet but one bit just lept out at me I feel I have to answer right away

its in relation to my point how a prophecy can be compared to anything depending on what is happening at the time

"There will be a uniting of the territory of the old Western Roman Empire as a confederation of European nations. This European Union will be under the influence of apostate Christianity."

Had you been alive in 1942, perhaps you would compare this prophecy to the expanding Germany, insted of the modern EU??

Ithink i may re-read your oringinal post aswell because some of the things you said youare merely stating what you think he's referring to.....as with most prophecies.....to my memory Thomas's predicion was not that clear as to actually use the word "European Union"
if you are simply stating what you think he's refering too then it makes no difference, as you wlll see my previous posts on prophecies

24. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17254 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 10:40 am

Shaun

"faith is robust enough to accept the impossible!"

when it comes to accepting the impossible "robust" is not the word id choose to describe it! but hey thats just my opinion!

also im not sure if you caught it (sorry i do post alot) but i replied to your comment 643, il try and find what number my response was and you can tell me what you think

ah here we go post 679

also have you any comments on posts
667
669
694??

i do not wish to take up too much of your time ofcourse just interested as to what you might say

25. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17233 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 8:17 am

Does anyone convinced by bible prophecies fancy commenting on the following?

Jules Verne (more accuratly, more recently and less cripticly predicted several future events)

and Nostradaumus, who is cripitic and requires translation, but no more so than the bible

i also provided many bible prophecies that
a) havnt come true (you could argue they will one day)
b) cant come true
and c) contradict eachother

if the bibles prophecies are so great....then how can this be?

i dislike the prophecy arguments because (as we stated earlier in the thread) they are too innacurate and all go down to translation and us already knowing the events that have or are taking place and therefore comparing them (like with nostradaumus)

plus you could also just argue that phycic people actally exist
do you belive in phycic people?

i also dislike them because just because there are 1 or 2 accurate prophecies, does that really excuse all the other ridiculous things in the bible?

26. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17232 by down_under on January 12, 2007 at 7:50 am

Mark, i fancied checking out Ezekiel 36:1-24 to see just how "plain" it was and im very sorry but your description of "plain" and mine differ greatly.

what is plain about this?

Ezekiel 36:22 "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went."

or this?

Ezekiel 36:15 "Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD."

or any of these?

"36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:"

"36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;"

"36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey."

I see very little plainess in much of Ezekiel 36!!!
Infact I even see a sexist remark!!!

"36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman."

I fear you are merely seeing what yu want to see in these prophecies and it is sheilding you from truth
you think they are plain because you are seeing the meaning you want in them and no other.

And as I have stated before prophecies such as that can be easily assigned to events that have happened/are happening once we compare them, that is why Nostradaumus is always considered accurate and why prophecies must not be taken seriously, ad also prooves everything is down to how you translate it.

I also asked earlier if anyone had heard of a self-fullfilling prophecy

Basically it says in the bible it will happen, therefore all the jews belive with all their heart that it will happen, therefore they do everything in their power to make it happen, therefore it will eventually happen.

Never underestimate the power of a group of people with a dream.

it is reasons like these (among others) that mean prophecies simply cannot be taken too seriously,

if a bible prophecy said:

"In the month of september in the year of 2001 two flying machines built by man will be stolen by sevants of Allah and flown into large buildings in the sky causing them to crash to Earth"

my idea of "plain" i might add!

it would be a little bit differet, and ofcourse if the Bible is true, and writen by god, who really can see the future, then this sort of accuracy is not only easy, its expected, which is why bible prophecies proove nothing.

27. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17185 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 2:24 pm

JC

"Hopefully, he'll answer. Can't say that I'll continue the dialogue, though. It depends. Takes too much of my time with very little payoff, if any."

agreed, altho i found my constant annoying pressure has finally gotten an answer out of him....like you said no real progress (cirular thinking and all that) but its a start!

and i think il be a bit nicer to him in the future aswell lol

28. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17172 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 12:12 pm

sorry theo quick addition

"Anyway I followed your link and found that there are at least four different theories about the evolution of language, none of which are proven beyond the other."

Yes thats true, however what is prooven is that languages have evolved and do continue to evolve, we can see this with the differences in British English and American English, or more notably afrikaans

Afrikaans is a language in its own right that has existed for about 300 years and evolved from dutch, it (along with English) is an official language of South Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans

basically proof of language evoloution.....god did not create afrikaans

another point i noticed yu had no comment for was how Swedes and Danes understand eachother when they both speak their own languages....defeats the point of the tower of babel

and youcant deny the similarites between all the latin languages and latin itself!

the point i was making is that languages have been prooven to evolve, making the tower of babel story false

interestingly many scientists now belive dolphins have a language, it is not prooven but is being researched

http://www.dauphinlibre.be/langintro.htm

but what is certain is that dolphins have an advanced form of communication where different sounds and clicks are assigned to different things.......they even name themselves!! (the only animals other than humans to do this)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/060508_dolphins.html

Now did god also give dolphins their communcation abilities at the tower of babel?

infact the bible seems to put all the animals together as merely "animals" (funnily enough as people did back then) we now know that some animals (like dolphins and chimps) are highly intelligent whereas others (like cows and sheep) are bearly aware of their existance and more fit the bibles description

anyway...
im impressed you finally answered all my questions, some of the ones you claimed to have answered before, if you re-read your replies you will realise you only tried to argue with what i said without actually giving me an answer........a typica theist technique when they dont want to question their belief

however well done, although the answers where unsatisfactory and only lead to more questions, i am pleased you finally acknowledged them and tried, thank you, you did however still manage not to comment on this

"and eat dust? i know of no snakes that eat dust"

if you did im sorry i missed it, can you repost?

oh and comment 691 ;-)

29. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17170 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 11:56 am

Theo

haha i didnt even realise i was comment 666!!! yey me!! somehow it seems appropriate given my offensive relentness approach to these questions ;-) he he

"No animal can speak today. In the garden of Eden, it is believed that Satan took the form of a serpent to deceive Adam and Eve. We understand this in Gods prophecy concerning the woman."

No need to dress it up just because you know it sounds stupid, what you said roughly means
"Yes I belive animals could talk"
thats all you had to say, if you realise how stupid that sounds then you need to rethink your faith, and tell me why suddenly everyone thinks the snake is satan although it says nothing of the sort, thats something you would think god would mention

"That Satan tested man can be deduced from the passage." - How?

"It does not say in the exact words, "Satan tested man"" - Why not? surleythe word of God could be more specific!! and you told me GOD tested man not satan?

"For example, someone once deduced that the snake spoke to Eve without Gods knowledge. Nowhere does it say in the exact words, "God did not know" but that private deduction was made. "

I thought God saw all and knew all? Past present and future?? Theo you keep digging yourself a bigger hole here

"Well the funny thing is that that information on the rarity of fossils was given to me by evolutionists (as I stated before this is the explanation given by scientists to account for the rarity of transitional forms). They also described the fossil record as poor. But I guess that its only when this information is presented by a theist its "moronic""

No theo i read your website, your puny theistic mind mis-interpereted it (your good at that)

"that the rarity of fossils has only a small impact on their value. I believe that even though we have a poor fossil record, valuable information can be gleaned from it."

hang on? youv just gone back on your original statement? youv just agreed with my point of view? so whats the argument here? i agreed that fossils are rare only by comparison, you agree it doesnt matter, that one was easy.

"That is why I respect science for what it is,"

Im glad and relived to hear you say that, youve earned a respect mark from me, i got the impression that you ignored science completly

"limited only to repeatable and empirically observable phenomena"

yes true but the more we observe and learn the smaller those limitations become, the rest of your argument is based on the assumption that god exists (you even said that yourself) so in my mind it doesnt matter, it is another one of those circular arguments you keep having with JC, you have to accept the conclusion to accept the question.

Also its reminicant of the "We dont understand so it must be God" line of thinking, a primitive way to think as i have stated many times, just because we dont currently understand something doesnt mean its a god and we certainly shouldnt stop trying to understand

"I also notice that you beg for explanations to supernatural events, which is paradoxical"

As i explained, the formation of microscopic atoms from nothing is not supernatural just not currently understood, and i also explained that most scientists dont belive atoms came from nothing we just dont know where they came from so we have to assume they came from nothing

"Some scientists would agree with you and some would not. I just hold the same opinion with those that don't, that something must have always existed even if it is not a Creator"

given the logic i gave you how can you think this? please explain

"Actually, current data shows that a creator is more probable than spontaneous generation"

- please tell me where i can find this data and is it scientifically unbias?
i think you'll find this is unlikely for the reasons i have repeatdly stated, a creator is highly complex, spontaneous generation is not and is also just an assumption because we dont know what happened, as i have said, just because we dont know, does not make it god

"For the last time I said that if Genesis is silent on the topic then the answer to these questions cannot be known for sure"

Surley then this is proof that the bible is not the word of god?

"Sorry, I believe that God can do things His way"

apology accepted, but i just simply cannot think this way, it is unbelivably primative and encourages us not to question.

"the babies of these animals could have fitted"

Babies? that is laughable! i mean im actually laughing out loud!! do you know how large a baby elephant is?!
do you know how large a baby brachiosaurus was?!
do you know how many millions of animals there are today and how many billions have lived in the history of earth
trust me, even if the babies were only 2 days old, even if you only took 2 dinosaur eggs, there is still no way they could fit on the ark!

"Satan, taking the form as a serpent was prophesied to be defeated for tempting man and woman"

That doesnt answer why the snake was punished, surly it was all satans fault and your explanation about the un-just punishment of all snakes seemed to me like you think its ok?

God punishes ALL women in childbirth for the ONE mistake of ONE woman, is that fair and just? is that really what a loving god would do?

"no beast in revelation is real"

- nothing in the bible is real ;-)

but you argue they are just visions, but they are visions of what will happen, dragon and all

"originated before scientific classification. For example the bible describes whales as fishes, but whales are mammals not fishes."

isnt this nothing but yet more proof that the bible was written by man and not god? as god would know a whale was a mammal wheres people 2000 years ago would not!

"The descendants after Noah scattered over the earth all carrying what they remembered from the flood that would explain the commonality of the flood stories all over the earth"

This would not explain how numerous civilisations survived the flood, if all the inhabitants of a civilisation are wiped out then that civilisation dies.
i think you only dont understand what im saying because you choose not to understand, belive me what im saying makes perfect sense.

infact for all to read (and yourself to perhaps re-read) i will repost it:

Yes but were they ALL atthe same time covering the entire surface?
you have shot yourself in the foot with this one because even if they were all atthe same time then that would mean that more people survived than those on the ark....with no records as to how......therefore making that story either a lie or these people would have survived without your all kowing all seeing god realising."

it is also worth noting that simply raining (even torrentialy and globally) for a mere40 days and 40 nights would not flood the entire planet, at least not to the extent in the bible and certainly not enough to cover the tops of mountains.

30. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17168 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 11:28 am

AAARRRGGGGHHHHH THEO YOU ARE SO FUSTRATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ihavnt read the rest of your repy yet but i need to comment on this before i explode!!

You said you answered the question on 572

NO YOU DIDNT!!!!!!!!!!
This is what you said on 572

"Gen 6: 1-4, the sons of God refers to the linage of Seth, not angels (angels do not have the ability to form a martial bond Mt 22:30)"

THEO THAT ISNT AN ANSWER!!!! I replied to that saying
"ok but wether it is angels or demons (the linage of seth yes?) do you belive they crossbred with humans to make giants???

SO THEO IL ASK YOU YET AGAIN!!!
(seriously theo why cantyu just answer simple questions, is it that hard??)

Do you, as a sane huma being, belive the linage of Seth crossbred with Humans to make giants??

as it is stated in Gen 6:1-4

YES OR NO?????

(note: if demons cant form bonds either then you have just pointed out a bible contradiction!)

sheeesshhh!!

31. Intelligent design is a science, not a faith

Comment #17158 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 10:34 am

Krady

Many atheists actually do deny the existance of all Gods through speech, not one
we mays use the word "Gods" and not goddesses, but the "s" at the end is important.
We only say we deny the existance of "god" or "a god" when talking to Christians, Jews etc

infact a famous atheist sayings to the likes of Christians, Jews and Muslims is

"We are all Atheists, we just belive in 1 less God than you do, once you understand why you do not accept all the other Gods, you will understand why we do not accept yours"

32. Intelligent design is a science, not a faith

Comment #17157 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 10:30 am

Zaphod earlier stated

"It is cowardly and insufficient. All IDiots are incredibly arrrogant to think that just because they can't understand how something may have came about doesn't someone else can't or won't."

ofcourse he is 100% correct, ive never understood the creationists "We dont understand so it must be God" line of thought

Its very close minded, simple, and primative........it was this thought (coupled with the dangerous "and kill anyone who disagrees") that caused so much trouble in the Dark ages

33. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17155 by down_under on January 11, 2007 at 10:03 am

J.C

re: when you said to theo

"we'll just agree to disagree."

I find myself saying this more and more too theists, when they get stuck they simply no longer want to debate, they may aswell just shout at the top of their lungs

"My ears are deaf to all but the teachings of the bible!"

its quite annoying and makes me wonder how they can belive when if they find something that defies their belief rather than study it they dimiss it, pretend it isnt there, then carry on in their blind faith.

Plus i wouldnt rely on theo replying to you anytime soon, i think your last post caught him out, whenever he gets caught out he simply ignores the statement, if you read through my posts for him you'll see what i mean!

also loved the chart!

34. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17044 by down_under on January 10, 2007 at 11:22 am

Shaun

are you one of these Chirstadelphians? (i sincerly hope not)
if so heres some websites i suggest you check out, just to make you think a bit more about whatyou belive in (hey! see it as an opportunity to solidify your faith!)

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
http://www.evilbible.com

35. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #17042 by down_under on January 10, 2007 at 11:03 am

Shaun

Sorry i took so long to reply to other comments of yours, they were quite heady! long day at work and im easily confused he he

il take a stab at 643 tho......

first i would like to say that you say the bible is way ahead of other religous texts in specificity (i dont know that word haha) but i disagree
i already quoted koran prophecies just as accurate but mark simply said "oh they copied the bible" without offering any proof as to where he got that information

i have also provided links to hindu and mormon prophecies, i suggest you read them, Joseph Smith accuratly predicied the US civil war

ofcourse it depends how you translate them, but that is also true of the bible
and all the propheices "within" the bible are far more criptic than that, this quote you provided was not in the bible and was written in 1848 i belive it said.

as for how he got it accurate, well lets look at the circumstances, if you study the world around you it is easy to make an accurate prophecy

Britain was at the time a fast growing powerful empire, with a bad relationship with the turks and alot of land in the middle east.
Given israels geographical location and importance at the time, one could prophecise the British would have a large role to play in Israels future and would easily brush the turks aside

Now as for the isralies getting into israel and staying there....have you ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy?

The bible says this will happen, therefore the jews belive with all their heart that it will, therefore they do everything in their power to make it happen, therfore it will eventually happen

Never underestimate the power of a large group of people with a dream....

also you say the bible is real because of its accurate prophecies, but neither you or mark commented on

Jules Verne (more accuratly, more recently and less cripticly predicted several future events)

and Nostradaumus, who is cripitic and requires translation, but no more so than the bible

i also provided many bible prophecies that
a) havnt come true (you could argue they will one day)
b) cant come true
and c) contradict eachother

if the bibles prophecies are so great....then how can this be?

i will also add that "thomas" like all prophets, religious or otherwise, failed to be EXACT and didnt even give a date, if he (or the bible) truly knew, neither of these would be a problem
infact the bible did give an (inaccurate) date for one event, the return of christ.......in 1914

Revelation 12:6

because of this jehovas witnesses belived it actually happened, but no-one noticed *chuckle*

i dislike the prophecy arguments because (as we stated earlier in the thread) they are too innacurate and all go down to translation and us already knowing the events that have or are taking place and therefore comparing them (like with nostradaumus)
plus you could also just argue that phycic people actally exist
do you belive in phycic people?

i also dislike them because you belive they are true i have no doubt, yet just because there are 1 or 2 accurate prophecies, does that really excuse all the other ridiculous things in the bible? (see my questions for theo for examples)

i will get round to 649 (i think it was, maybe 647 il check lol) when i have the time

36. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16893 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 1:11 pm

I almost feel arguing with Theo is too easy! *smirk* and when he ignores such simple questions (numerous though they are) it only further solidifies my points!

Please if any theists feel they can argue the point better than theo then take the challenge

Oh and FONEX_86

re: 654. Comment #16723 by fonex_86 on January 8, 2007 at 10:28 am

GREAT COMMENT! could not have put it better myself

37. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16881 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 11:18 am

Sorry to all if i appear to be flooding (noah - flooding! haha my silly puns) but iv just got alot to get thro :-S

This is to THEO once again! (who else!)

and in response to my obsession with the unicorn

ofcourse im obsessed with the word unicorn!! it says "unicorn" in the friggin bible!!!! regardless of what translation there is a bible translation out there with the word "unicorn" in!!!! a fictional mythical beast! in the bible!!! i think its hillarious!!! and its not alone, dragons, giants and talking snakes made it in there too!!!

and also theo......YET ANOTHER comment you ignored

"Theo:

"The account of the Genesis Flood hardly stands alone in human history. Researchers have described over 100 flood traditions from Europe, Asia, Australia, the East Indies, the Americas, East Africa, and many other places. "

Yes but were they ALL atthe same time covering the entire surface?
you have shot yourself in the foot with this one because even if they were all atthe same time then that would mean that more people survived than those on the ark....with no records as to how......therefore making that story either a lie or these people would have survived without your all kowing all seeing god realising."

please stop ignoring important questions like these theo if you just pretend they dont exist it says alot about your belief (and your brain)
if the noah story was true....as you belive.... then this should be a simple straightforward question to answer

38. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16876 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 10:33 am

Shaun

Concerning women in the bible
Eve also gets all the blame for the original sin (1Tim. 2:12-14), and women are the property of men and were created for men, because we are superior. They must be silent in church and never hold authority over men, or even teach a man (1Cor. 11:8-9, 14:34-35, Eph. 5:21, Col. 3:18, 1Tim.2:11-14). All however is not lost, as a woman can be saved through childbirth (1Tim. 2:15). The only problem is that God would rather men didn't get married (1Cor. 7:8), and for those lucky enough to get a man, child birth will be incredibly painful (Gen.3:16). Yep, God hates women!

39. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16874 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 10:27 am

Shaun on the evoloution of languages

it is a well known fact!
infact if you speak more than 1 language you will see the similarities! in portugese and spanish, swedish and german etc etc
if you compare spanish to latin you will again see the similaarites, you can actually see tha languages evolve!

infact Spanish, Portugese, Italian, and French are called the Latin languages!

German, English, Swedish, Danish, and Norweigan the Germanic languages!

And Danes and Swedes can understand eachother speaking their own languages........deeats the point of the tower of babel no?

but here is some evidence
http://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/la1.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_linguistics

ALSO THEO AND SHAUN ON THE TOWER OF BABEL

God scattered everyone because he thought we would reach heaven? is heaven in the sky?

whywerent the americans scattered when they invented the plane and english changed?
Why werent the russians scattered when they put a man in space and russian changed?

Why did god think a tower would reach him? he's not very bright is he!

Gen11:4

And apparantly there were already many languages before the tower of babel anyway, did god simply forget? not very all knowing is he (note he had to come down to see the tower.....he didnt already know it was going to happen or that it was there....odd if he sees past future and present)

Genesis 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue.

Genesis 10:20
These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues.

Genesis 10:31
These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues.

40. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16873 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 10:21 am

THEO, ON THE SNAKE

i said i had another comment about the snake, here it is, have fun!

If God put the snake there to test adam and eves faith....then why was the snake punished?
it was only doing gods will, and god (seeing all past present and future as he does) would know what the snake was going to do anyway?

and on the snakes punishment....slither on your belly for all time? how did it get around before? hop on its tail perhaps?

and eat dust? i know of no snakes that eat dust

and punishing all snakes for the mistake of one! bit unjust!
that would be like imprisoning all the next generations of a murderer!

and all the modern snakes cant even talk!! ;-)

41. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16872 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 10:18 am

THEO AND SHAUN

Comment 574 explains nothing (as i stated above) because

quoted

"Although Genesis is silent on it, there are many theories on the redistribution of the animals. From temporary land bridges, slow redistribution over a period of time"

If you knew anything about animals and how they need their habitats to survive you would know this is impossible many animals (like koalas) haves pecific diets that they would die if they went without even for a few days
given the various different animals and habitats required those 2 theorys are impossible

as for

"and the fact that if God brought the animals to the ark by supernatural intervention He could redistribute them by it too"

doesnt that simply defeat the object of noahs ark in the first place? god could just save all the animals by "devine intervention" or better yet, simply re-create them all afer the flood, why did he need to save any at all?

im sorry but the "god can do anything" argument explains nothing and is just superstition, it is ridiculous

and as for the flying and swimming dinosaurs dying without catastrophe
yes we do know of it before, through the very fossil records you slander so much
inact themdying without catastrophy would take millions of years and is (yet another) argument where yu have shot yourself in the foot

you also failed to comment on how all those animals (alot remember, especially if you belive that the dinosaurs were on the ark, and id love to imagine 2 brachiosauruses on there....among all the other sauropods, theropods, hadrosaurs etc etc) managed to fit on the ark!

42. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16867 by down_under on January 9, 2007 at 9:57 am

THEO:
ONE FOR THEO!!!! (dont ignore theo you do that alot)

You said:
"Well that depends on what your definition of a giant is. I am thinking men of large stature. The tallest normal man in the world measures around 7 foot 8. I would truly feel like a grasshopper in his presence! It is reasonable that the nephilim could have probably been larger too."

I would assume the biblical "giants" were literall Giants much like the unicorn (ok disputed) and the Dragon in revalations
however, if we assume that by giants they mean "tall people" then why does the bible say "there were giants then" Genesis 6: 1-4
assuming there are none anymore? we know there are so explain

also, if we assume you can explain that, then do you belive that "tall people" (say 7ft or over) were created by demons cross-breeding with humans????

The fact that you have continously refused to answer this question makes me think you know how ridiculous it (and therefore the bible) is!!
PLEASE THEO ANSWER YES OR NO!!!!

you also quoted me saying:
"as far as i can see, the snake spoke of his own accord......without your omnipitant God even knowing about it!!!!! (emp. Added)"
then said

"That's the problem right there."

OK then smart arse! (avoiding answers with sarcastic comments will get you nowhere with me) The snake WAS talking of its own accord, it was not God speaking through the snake

So do you belive animals could talk??

you also said

"Thought you did not fancy bible quoting? Fortunately (or unfortunately in some circumstances) simple reading and understanding is required for this."

Theo, you are constatnly avoiding answers (and childlishly claiming i cant read), so surly you must realise how pathetic you look

I only do not fancy bible quotes if you are trying to proove history or science becasuse

a) The bible as a historical reference is laughable
b) the bible as a scientific docmuent is offensive!

however we are questioning the bible itself and i was using quotes to show you how stupid and innacurate it is
you said the snake was sent to test faith, i asked where it said that

So answer me!! WHERE DOES IT SAY THE SNAKE WAS SENT TO TEST FAITH???

also see my later comment on that!! it catches you out no matter what.........prooving the innacuracy of the bible

This is fun theo, you really are stupid, next quote:

"Yeah d_u, the thousands and thousands of fossils to represent the billions upon billions of lifeforms that ever existed makes them preeeetty rare."

Theo you're a moron!! your logic is soooo 1 dimensional!!! although as a theist it is expected!

OK yes, by comparison to how many lifeforms lived (billions and billions as you said) and considering how long they lived for (250 million years in the dinosaurs case) then yes, BY COMPARISON fossils are rare

ofcourse by that logic humans are rare because the 6 billion left is nothing compared to the billions that have lived and died over the past 10's of thousands of years!!

this does not mean they are actually rare!! they are everywhere!! (like modern humans) and the fact that what we have discovered all "agree" with eachother in terms of what they were, how they lived, where they lived, how old they are and the fact that we have learned so much from such a small percentage, then i think its pretty damn impressive!

you quoted

"The fossil record should not be resorted to as a surefire way of determining co existence:"

nothing in science is surefire, that is what is so brilliant about it becuase it means things are always beig questioned and tested (unlike religion and faith), the fossil records are normally 1 - 10 million years off......but thats actually pretty damn accurate considering and therefore is a very good way of looking at it.

and no matter how you look at it the dinosaurs were gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before the dodo so my point stands

"plus its FAR easier to belive matter came from nothing as its nothing more than a few atoms, (me)

Really? Something had to have always existed whether it is matter, energy, singularity, super strings or a creator. (theo)"

I didnt say that theo quote my whole statement, i said scientists dont know where anything came from (that doesnt mean its god) and therfore until we know have to assume atoms came from nothing

and YES theo you moron it is easier to assume that 2 microscopic atoms came from nothing than a huge intelligent thinking complex human looking (in our image remember theo) being!!! as i previously stated intelligence is immensly complex, and god would be more complex than the universe he created so YES THEO YES!!! not very complex atoms from nothing is a millions times easier to accept!!!!!

I said "you belive a complex intelligent being has just always been there.....my friend that is ludicrus and impossible"

you responded "Don't you mean improbable?"

hah hah hah hah theo!!! you just admited your own belief is improbable!!! hah hah hah!! brilliant!!! more than i coudl've hoped for!
so even knowing how improbable your god is dont you feel silly worshipping him?
and may i also add then yes, a creator is improbable (highly infact) but sciences answers are HIGHLY PROBABLE! so ponder on that for a while

you then added

"Shauntheboy answered a few of the questions within your post. I will just add to them

"Isnt it a nice co-incidence that you were convineantly Born into the correct religion aswell!! I feel sorry for all those people born in places like Iraq and India, who will burn in hell jsut for being born in the wrong country!! man what a fair and loving God you worship!"

Christianity is known in those regions, its their job to choose what is true and what is false".

No,. it is the job of the parents and society to force the religion on the children and hope they never grow out of it.

"If th great flood kiled the dinosaurs (haha) THEN WHAT KILLED THE FLYING AND SWIMMING DINOSAURS?!?! this one is always brushed over by theists. "That 2 of EVERY ANIMAL!! (now trust me thats ALOT!! there are several species of Wallaby alone!) all fit on 1 boat then somehow managed to redistribute themselves to their respective habitats!!!
Koalas going back to Australia, Polar bears to the arctic, etc etc" (me)

See comment 574" (response)

comment 574 answered nothing

"how languages have evolved (Spanish and French from latin, English and German from Germanic etc etc) is ignored? (me)

I asked for proof of this remember?" (response)

it is a well known fact!
infact if you speak more than 1 language you will see the similarities! in portugese and spanish, swedish and german etc etc
if you compare spanish to latin you will again see the similaarites, you can actually see tha languages evolve!

but just for your mornic theist mind, here is some evidence
http://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/la1.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_linguistics

sorry that was so long and a bit confusing, had alot to get through!
man it was fun, theo i love debating with theists like you because your minds are so simple and your logic so baffaling!
also have you got round to answering any more of my questions yet? the ones you said you could but then ignored? i hope you do answer them rather than just predtend they dont exist and get back to your blind faith, like you seem to keep doing
i'll be waiting.............

43. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16726 by down_under on January 8, 2007 at 10:41 am

For Theo and comments i have yet to answer from shaun

Im off to play poker now (gasp gambling!! lol not illegal here tho! woohoo!!) so il get round to your comments asap, either later on today or soe point tommorrow

i do have one question on the snake for theo tho (sorry if youve already answered this)

But if God put the snake there t test adam and eves faith....then why was the snake punished? it was only doing gods will, and god (seeing al past present and future as he does) would know what the snake was going to do anyway?

and on the snakes punishment....slither on your belly for all time? how did it get around before?
and eat dust? i know of no snakes that eat dust

and punishing all snakes for the mistake of one! bit unjust! that would be like imprisoning all the next generations of a murderer!
and all the modern snakes cant even talk!! ;-)

44. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16725 by down_under on January 8, 2007 at 10:38 am

Mark

If you can honestly read the bible, put it under scrutiny, and still belive it, then i dont understand how

however, its your choice and your opinion, at the end of the day thats all it is....opinions, and the beauty of living in the 21st century western world is that everyone is entitled to their own.....even though we hugley disagree!

also i have nothing but admiration for your admitting it concerns you when you cant answer questions (i think you quoted one of billys) most theists wouldnt admit something like that..... almost makes me want you to find an answer! he he

and im pleased that you appreciate the importance of evaluating other religious texts, especially one as popular as the Koran!

If you wish to see comments from people who really do put the bible under scrutniy this is an interesting website
they also evaluate the book of mormon and the Koran

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

45. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16724 by down_under on January 8, 2007 at 10:33 am

Also shaun thanks for responding to the beard question!! iv been wating for a response to that for ages!! haha and it did give me a chuckle, still confuses me though, that god doesnt like a clean shaven face?

And Mark! im impressed you have a beard! i was secretly hoping to catch you out there! ;-) he he

46. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16722 by down_under on January 8, 2007 at 10:22 am

Wow!! this is fastly becomming a popular blog!!

well il respond to shaun first!

"All you prove with your points is how far removed from the Gospel message of the Bible modern Christianity has become. Your argument does nothing to nullify the teaching of Scripture."

I disagree, it prooves that religions often steal from eachoher, which does ofcourse nulify the scripture from each religion

As for the nasty stuff i the bible, i argued the case earlier i feel they are the same god not only in OT and NT but also the Koran

And Billy provided plenty of evidence of sexism (in both OT and NT) with the funny remark of "yup god hates women" oddly noone commented on this

i will try and traceback the posts to find his comments or if billy has them anywhere request he re-posts them?

47. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16606 by down_under on January 7, 2007 at 2:47 pm

Not looking for a response from this one, thought it would just be nice to add another innacurate prophecy in the bible

Malachi 3:1; 4:1, 5)
The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance.

"all knowng" god does it again

48. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16601 by down_under on January 7, 2007 at 2:33 pm

fonex_86

Sorry for my mistake, i misinterpreted what you said, its easily done.....which is ironicaly what we have been arguing about, prooved my own argument how great is that!! haha

plus you do have a point about how she wanted to live due to fear of hell rather than love of life, i think atheists see human life as far more precious because we see it as the only one, and that we got where we are by our own merit not by some divine being who looks at us like we're children and demands worship

also, if we make a mistake we blame ourselves and learn from it, we dont blame satan

if we wrong someone we seek their forgivness and try to ammend things, rather than just seek forgivness from god and leave it at that

we (rightly) are proud of our accomplishment, because they are ours, not gods

I recently saw an article in the paper about a 5 year old girl who whilst sleep walking walked out her window fell 3 floors and landed on something soft (cant remember what) and rather than dying she just fractured her arm
her parents said "the angels must of been watching over her" im thinking "so the angels allowed her to walk out the window in the 1st place ad allowed her arm to break, they couldnt have been watching very well!!
if they had the ability to put something soft in the way why didnt they just simply lock the window?

the theist mind process never seases to amaze me

49. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16589 by down_under on January 7, 2007 at 1:52 pm

fonex_86

"a faith in santa is nothing compared to a faith in infinite punishment for finite crimes"

they are exactly the same because they are both false

and are you telling me that your all loving God, would allow your friend to live such a horrible life that she wants it to end
then once she has ended it, send her to hell??

and then when you die and go to heaven, are you telling me you could enjoy heaven knowing your friend was suffering forever in hell??

God is suppost to love us more than our parents do, yet my mother would never send me to eternal punisment simply for not beliving she existed, even if i pushed my mother down the stairs, told her i hated her and spat in her face (ouch painful thought ofcourse i could never do that!) she woud still love me and not wish eternal suffering on me

and as for blood lust.....have you read the bible!!! its the most horrific blood thirsty book iv ever read!! your god is one evil bastard!! he even created hell!! he even purposly tests your faith to try and trick you into ending up there!!

sheesh!!

im also guessing that you and your friend are so fickle that you need the wish of an eternal reward and the fear of eternal punishment just to behave morally yes?

50. The God of the Bible is No Delusion!

Comment #16588 by down_under on January 7, 2007 at 1:47 pm

Mark do this for more

honestly and un-bias (if you are even capable of doin that) but your religion and the bible under the same scrutiny you put on other religions

seek the inacuracies and the failed prophecies and the ridiculous stories and events that have been proven not to have happened, seek the inconsistancies

If you do this mark you will realise your religion is no different to any other and (like them) incorrect.....if you can (honestly) do this and still belive then im afraid you are to brainwashed by a christian society and beyond help

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