1. IT'S A GODDAMNED CRACKER!

Comment #210457 by Kyrie Eleison on July 14, 2008 at 3:25 pm

"St Ignatius would be thoroughly pissed off at that."

Thank you for this excellent example: Ignatius was a Jesuit.

Francis Xavier would later describe this quality of submission in a vow that unintentionally summarized the Jesuit mission: 'I would not even believe in the Gospels were the Holy Church to forbid it.'"

from Dictionary.com - "Jesuit": One given to subtle casuistry, member of the Society of Jesus, founded 1533 by Ignatius Loyola to combat Protestantism (Christianity). Their enemies (in both Catholic and Protestant lands) accused them of belief that ends justify means, hence the sense "a dissembling person" (1640), and jesuitical "deceitful"

Pascal's Provincial letters documents interviews regarding Jesuits where Pascal was clearly vexed.

This stuff is historical and intriguing even if one is not a believer. The full text can be read here: http://books.google.com/books?id=cmlRK2ynRpoC&dq=pascal provincial letters&pg=PP1&ots=xmHht8V2-X&sig=_W8eZMSE6VxcpcX_ykJ0OYoCCdU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR17,M1

2. IT'S A GODDAMNED CRACKER!

Comment #209775 by Kyrie Eleison on July 13, 2008 at 10:10 am

Catholicism and Christianity are two completely different philosophies. Lumping them together is intellectually dishonest.

Christians and Buddists both wash feet. A person has ears and elephants have ears; does that make a person an elephant?

Even Satan believes in God and Jesus and uses scripture from the Holy Bible; that doesn't make Satan a Christian.

3. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172357 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 1:55 pm

if you are going to make the case that it is okay for aged
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I don't believe in banging away regardless of age, outside of marriage.

If the young woman is his wife, that is up to them. No one has even suggested the marriages were not legitimate.

Be honest now, what patriarchal religion to you follow?
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I am a follower of Jesus Christ; a non-denominational Christian; An evangelical Apologist; I write "pestilent glosses". I believe polygamy is Greek for "a dunghill"; a Cananite idea reducing people to merchandise: see Lamech in Genesis.

I do think this case is an attack against "patriarchy", otherwise I see no difference in the two types of mothers.

An FDLS mother has a married lifestyle, probably chosen, with the freedom to thrive as a mother without the struggles a single young woman would have going it alone or even battleing with a parental counterpart chosen almost at random.

A young non-married mother probably wasn't really ready to be a mother, "unequally yolked" -(2 Corinthians 6:14) to an uncommited, spiritually and financially immature age-mate and has a different experience. Unexpected pregnancy reduced the number of choices in a lifestyle. Who can say which prediciment is worse, yet we don't consider the latter "abused".

I am curious to understand how one who ascribes to such accepts casting women and children as subservient unfree agents and I would really like to get your perspective on the matter
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Our understanding is likely nowhere close to what goes on at FLDS. They did have phones and were able to call for help, until the government confiscated them. A cult doesn't mean they are in lockdown, under gaurds like Jonestown.

Put aside the issue of state intervention and simply address the known circumstances of underaged sexual abuse by the men of the FLDS and explain why it deserves legal protection from the state, because that has been your whole argument so far.
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So far, the "victims" are all saying "we aren't victims, please give us our children back". They have had 3 weeks and no one has come forward. This isn't a gang; no one gets "jumped out". Why don't they investigate family by family and find the real victims if there are any to be found?

But at the very least drop the charade and come clean about your religious beliefs, you aren't fooling anyone.
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I hope my light is obvious.

4. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172264 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 12:12 pm

"Say your son was hanging out at a place that routinely had oldermen taking impressionable girls"

Sounds like my old highschool.

"or at the very least get him into future trouble for statutory rape?"

So it's ok for a girl of age to be duped and broken hearted, as long as the guy doesn't get in any trouble he may be forced to be accountable for.

5. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172259 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 11:58 am

Ok, Mabe the religious nut cases deserve what they get when lying to their brave protectors about their age just to be with their kids in custody. Don't these mothers know, their lying makes them appear rediculously young when their child was conceived albeit making the CPS look more justified to the innumerate in one fell swoop? Plus it messes up the state's paperwork.

But what about this one? I am so glad I read this; I don't watch TV either and could see easily making this same type of mistake. A respected university professor getting the same treatment from fanatical government zealots: http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=91319

"And if you think nothing so ludicrous could happen to your family, maybe you should pay a little less attention to who's getting booted from "Dancing with the Stars" and a little more to how the state agency responsible for protecting Michigan's children is going about its work."

6. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172178 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 10:09 am

Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar said 31 of 53 girls ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant or both.
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Since Texas law has the age limit set at 16, I would be very interested in the counts showing the 14 and 15 year olds only. Including the 16s and older make the state's actions appear less damning; I smell a rat indeed.


"This includes that group of girls that once claimed they were 18 or older," he said. "It was determined they were not adults."
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Looks like the "victims" are trying to escape from the state's self-annointed rescuers.

Here where I live, there are fully functioning daycare centers inside most of the highschools for the student's children usually with 20 to 50 babies and toddlers. I think most highschoolers or 18 and younger.

This is very different treatment of these two types of underaged parents. For one parent, the state confiscates money from the populace to provide "free" services for them, the other, the state demands the child be confiscated. Is the difference not alarming?

What danger are the boys in?

7. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172166 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 9:39 am

That is not what happened and saying so only empowers religious fanatics
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It wasn't the religeous weilding the fanatical power in this case.

8. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172104 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 8:38 am

There was also an issue of corporal punishment (extreme) being used and the mothers doing nothing to stop it.
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I have been following this for a couple weeks and haven't seen this. Do you have a link?

Is spanking "extreme"? To some, any spanking is "extreme". Some children can't perceive danger any other way; Do you think it is wise to let a child keep themselves in constant danger to appease a stranger who is offended at any spanking?

Was the man who started and spread the idea spanking was a bad thing and good parent? No. He recanted his non-corpral punishment parenting tips in the wake of dealing with his own child's suicide, but the momentum of the idea was too strong to go back. I have a niece that was raised with strong non-corpral style parenting and she tried to commit suicide too; multiple times. They had to put her in a home. Now she is an underage alcoholic.

Furthermore the mothers were given the opportunity to stay with the children when they were removed, but they did not excercise this right.
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That was a temporary for only some of the children. They removed the nursing mothers from their infants last week.

And it is the job of the state to determine a legal marrying age and enforce it equally.
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How many of the 467 violated this law?

Petitions to change this should be heard, but simply ignoring the laws of the state which have been passed by elected representatives, should not be tolerated.
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Who has ignored the law? Who gave child protective services (people who couldn't pass the psyche evaluations to become police officers or school tyrants, (I mean teachers) carte blanche to make up the law as they go along?

9. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #172034 by Kyrie Eleison on April 29, 2008 at 7:05 am

No I don't think removing kids from a place where they are being abused is bad. But I do think sometimes CPSes can over react. It tends to go in cycles. They try to bend over backwards to help parents get their acts together, or give parents the benefit of the doubt.
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How many of the 467 do you think have been forcefully or incestually impregnated?

I would say zero of the boys; so why have they taken the boys? Testing to see if the bars and porn have everyone's attention; to see if any "trouble makers" still have their critical thinking in tact (damn homeschoolers-they are next), to see if anyone notices the group thing? To see if Janet Reno has turned anyone off yet?

And besides isn't another complaint about "older men", not the teen boys they rounded up? Since when does the government dictate mating criteria based on age? (The following is sarcasm): Shouldn't the government go by looks, money, taste in shoes, and ability to dance well?

Do you really find kidnapping children based on geography and putting them on trial as a group reasonable? If so, why not round up the kids in ghettos and public schools? Don't those children deserve to be protected? I don't think a day, from Jr. High on, went by that I wasn't sexually harrased in some way by a teacher or a student.

The link I was interested in was clearthink at the PZ site.

10. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171780 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Max, You don't think our government is acting in a similar manner as the Iraqi father in their kidnapping an entire community of children over a prank phone call?

If you were staying at a Holiday Inn and a fake call to the police regarding child abuse siting a room down the hall, would you find it reasonable for every child on the property to be confiscated? What if child protective services found an overweight child eating ice cream and didn't approve?

BTW: Did you see that I had asked you for the PZ link?

11. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171730 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 6:22 pm

"Kyrie, what about that article? Abused children taken away for presumably their own safety."

What abuse?

12. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171616 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 4:11 pm

"This is NOT a religious issue, but one of ignorance and fear. Improve their lives, education and security, and you might just help reduce or even eliminate this senseless slaughter!


Thank you. All kinds of stupidity decreases with education, including religion. Get people smarter and let them be critical thinkers and this stuff will start to evaporate."

What about this?: http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_9075298

13. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171561 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 3:09 pm

Is the pot not calling the kettle black here. We don't kill women for having relationships our government doesn't approve of: Never! We just take their children for these violations.

"Hitting" will get a spouse arrested. Adultery and infecting one's spouse with STDs and emotionally tramatizing them for life is fine. But polygamy is only tolerated when it is either "serial" or done in secret.

14. Girl, 17, killed in Iraq for loving a British soldier

Comment #171517 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Nature abhors a vaccum. If atheists get their wish of wiping out Christianity, Islam will replace it, not atheism. It matters not to Islam how smart atheists are; it is all about what Allah thinks.

"The great body of the party are commonly intoxicated with the imaginary beauty of this ideal system, of which they have no experience, but which has been represented to them in all the most dazzling colours in which the eloquence of their leaders could paint it." Smith, Adam. The Theory of Moral Sentiments (Oxford, 1976 ed.), 232.

15. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #171024 by Kyrie Eleison on April 28, 2008 at 8:46 am

"Perhaps you are still reeling from the chiding you got on the PZ thread?"

Max, Can I trouble you for the link to this thread?

Blessings

16. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #169284 by Kyrie Eleison on April 25, 2008 at 5:15 pm

Kyrie Elesion,
You are not that new!
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I don't know the characters yet, pretty much only you and you seem like lots of fun.

Here a post you never answered.
Kyrie, or perhaps more appropriately,
"Oh Lord!"
Where to begin, where to begin?
I have been in biology for the better part of 10 years. And I have never had the instance where the profs discussed God unless brought up by students. And then alot of hand wringing occured where the profs slipped the question.
"Well that is not what this is about. This is about evolution."
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I live with a biology student (he rents a room from me). I also have a brother who was a top stress analysis engineer. I understand the genere.

Newton for instance held a great deal of crack pot theories. ... He didn't believe Jesus was the son of God.
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He was a hermeutics expert. Where did you read he didn't believe in Jesus.

And Hawking is an atheist.
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"Hawking has stated "I thought I had leftthe question of the existence of a Supreme Being completely open. . . It would beperfectly consistent with all we know to say that there was a Being who was responsiblefor all the laws of physics." Stephen Hawking is probably an agnostic or a deist (abeliever in an impersonal god) or something in between these two positions, his recentchurch attendance notwithstanding. He is certainly not an atheist and sometimes doesnot even appear very sympathetic to atheism."

In any event what do you care, you don't believe their expertise in their respective fields qualifies them to adjudicate on such matters anyway.
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Your understanding is appreciated.


With each new discovery in the area of constants, the possiblity of "accidental" life mathematically decreases.

We don't yet know what kind of a universe we live in. Or why the constants are the way they are.
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But we do know what would happen if any of those constants were changed in a slight manner.

I don't know what happened here, so [insert God].
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It's more like "this is genius, this looks like information"

(Did you know that Newton was a horrible horrible man?)
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No I didn't; what did he do that you think is so terrible?

Missing my point entirely you say,
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I didn't miss the point; I just used your words to shift focus. I didn't mean for that to be rude.

What I meant was that, humanity is more concerned with weather a hand, for example, is helping out or slapping a face. Without volition, a hand does nothing; it just sits there. Only the individual owner of a hand cares about the laminin protiens holding that hand together or if the hand is materially healthy.

Just where do you think things like thought, memory, belief, "volition" get done? If you are struggling with that let me help. It happens in the brain, and can all be altered by manipulating the brain.
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Last I heard, no one has found the "self" inside the brain. You cannot copy the mechanical actions of a thought and recreate it in another person. You cannot observe a belief under a microscope.


But we have a mass of evidence and it all points in one general direction.
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But what if it is wrong? What really bugs me is the complication of cells that was unknown to Darwin.

Your point about Darwin being a useful political tool is really rich. Go watch the US presidential debates to find out why.
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Ouch.

Moreover your "argument from negative consequences is useless. The theory could be just as corrosive as you say and it wouldn't change the veracity of it one bit.
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Of coarse it would if we wound up with Islam or Popery.

"would find some corrobarating evidence of their God. They never do."
There isn't a lack of evidence, only a supression of evidence.

I spit my milk out at this line. Of course in perfect conspiracy fashion. Well where is your evidence?
They supressed it.
Who did?
They did. The scientists.
Which ones?
They did.
Ah.....
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That line was 2000 years old; pre-science. Look around you, the evidence is everywhere; one only needs "eyes that see"

17. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #168609 by Kyrie Eleison on April 25, 2008 at 8:29 am

"There is a very technical and precise term for this behaviour: it is called shit-stirring."

I am new here, but I am curious if you could explain to me how clearthinker Dave's logic was incorrect. Or were you referring to an earlier post?

18. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #168135 by Kyrie Eleison on April 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm

pwl, Why are you teaching at a Christian school? If you understood what you are doing compared to what the parents think you are doing, not only is Dawkins stuff a serious problem but you are playing the proverbial "wolf" in shepherd's clothing.

Before you panic, try listening to these lectures by Astronomer/Physicist Hugh Ross: http://euroleadershipresources.org/speaker.php?ID=84&Tab=Topics, http://www.veritas.org/media/talks/330

"An excellent story, with many details about the scientific accuracy of the bible. I did a little research on Dr. Ross over lunch, but wasn't able to find any refutations of his claims from the scientific community yet... http://www.reasons.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Ross_(creationist)"

Hope this helps.

19. Beware the Believers

Comment #167938 by Kyrie Eleison on April 24, 2008 at 12:36 pm

"For an expose on this position, read C.S. Lewis's "Abolition of Man." "

Funny you mention this; It was one of the first things I noticed. Also note Lewis's essay at the beginning of "Abolition of Man" entitled "Men Without Chests".

Lewis wrote: "The head rules the belly through the chest;the seat, as Alanus tells us, of Magnanimity,21 of emotions organized by trained habit into stable sentiments. The Chest-Magnanimity-Sentiment;these are the indispensable liaison officers between cerebral man and visceral man. It may even be said that it is by this middle element that man is man: for by his intellect he is mere spirit and by his appetite mere animal.

It is an outrage that they should be commonly spoken of as Intellectuals. This gives them the chance to say that he who attacks them attacks Intelligence. It is not so. They are not distinguished from other men by any unusual skill in finding truth nor any virginal ardour to pursue her. Indeed it would be strange if they were: a persevering devotion to truth, a nice sense of intellectual honour, cannot be long maintained without the aid of a sentiment which Gaius and Titius could debunk as easily as any other. It is not excess of thought but defect of fertile and generous emotion that marks them out. Their heads are no bigger than the ordinary: it is the atrophy of the chest beneath that makes them seem so." And all the time;such is the tragi-comedy of our situation; we continue to clamour for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more 'drive', or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or 'creativity'.

In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful."

"Anyone who disagrees would have missed the historical references!" etc.

20. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #167699 by Kyrie Eleison on April 24, 2008 at 9:17 am

"It would have been the perfect time to sneak a sticker into each book:"

Nevermind reading about it; Your lists describes the fleshly experience of public skrewling in a nutshell.

21. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #167643 by Kyrie Eleison on April 24, 2008 at 8:30 am

It would be nice if the Muslims read their Qur'an. Mabe they could explain to us the meaning of these passages from the book of Surah:

3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

Surah 3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
3:46 "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
3:47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
3:48 "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
3:49 "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
3:50 "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

22. Beware the Believers

Comment #157968 by Kyrie Eleison on April 9, 2008 at 10:44 pm

"it betrays a complete lack of knowledge."
PhDs are awarded for contributing to the knowledge pool. It is at the disgression of falible, emotional people what is accepted and what isn't. The intellectual value of a contribution by a PhD holder outside their focus is non sequitur.

"... why atheism enjoys such high rates of incidence among biologists and cosmologists."
The reason is conjecture from professors the students look up too because of their high intellectual honors. With each new discovery in the area of constants, the possiblity of "accidental" life mathematically decreases. The best minds; Newton, Bacon, Pascal, Galileo, Polkinghorne, were Christian. Steve Hawking attends church as often as possible.

"Wouldn't it seem like the people most dealing with subjects deeply germaine to humanity, life"
Humanity has to do with thought, belief, memory, volition, etc., all of which is non-material. Biology has to do with the material part of life. Material, your hand for example, does nothing of note without "thought" acting on it.

"and origins"
This is all theory; no one has proof of how we got here. To teach one theory only is indoctrination. Darwinism is disturbingly useful to the government and anyone wanting to justify actions that might harm another person.

"would find some corrobarating evidence of their God. They never do."
There isn't a lack of evidence, only a supression of evidence. "Apologetics" is the genre that answers questions for skeptics and thinkers; some good sources are the Harvard Veritas Forum Veritas.org, Ravi Zacharias RZIM.org, and Physicist Astronomer Dr. Hugh Ross.

23. Beware the Believers

Comment #157939 by Kyrie Eleison on April 9, 2008 at 7:40 pm

That gender issue wasn't a rhetorical question. Painted into a corner so soon?

I said the Rap content lined with scripture in every phrase; and it does. Mr. Dawkins missed the meaning (wisdom or maybe the common sense of spotting mockery) and the metaphors (scriptural parallels)

I didn't mention scripture when I mentioned the study of wisdom. I assumed atheists had alternate sources. Are you saying there is no other literature on wisdom outside the Holy Bible?

24. Beware the Believers

Comment #157854 by Kyrie Eleison on April 9, 2008 at 3:58 pm

Why are you referring to me as a "She"?

25. Beware the Believers

Comment #157639 by Kyrie Eleison on April 9, 2008 at 11:12 am

Sorry for the bad news, but, to answer Mr. Dawkin's question; this "poem" is pure mockery. It is not anti-science but it is anti-Naturalism.

It mocks the idea that jumping through social loop holes in one tiny area, landing one a "certificate" makes one any smarter than the scarecrow from OZ. Remember, his first words after the wizard pronounced him "officially smart" sounded good, but was a huge, probably unintentional, blunder in the script that others marveled at.

Every line in the Rap, and even parts of lines, are all from scripture and the context is unflattering.

To think this is approbation is either a mindnumbing demonstration of lack of wisdom or denial. If you don't believe me, I guess you can try putting the words under a microscope.

Excluding intelligent critics will decay the ability to accurately evaluate one's own actions and attitudes.

When one rejects the study of wisdom, it leaves one completely crippled in that entire field.

I hope this helps you.

26. Beware the Believers

Comment #155258 by Kyrie Eleison on April 4, 2008 at 9:28 am

What side is commedian Dane Cook on, afterall he keeps using the "F" word?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts-dntnyh4. Evangelical John Piper also got parodied on youtube: (John Piper is Bad)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GxkAJ1OBU.