1. Letter from Sir Richard Roberts asking Reiss to step down
Comment #248135 by Julius Morche on September 15, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Ian H Spedding FCD writes:
If the Royal Society really believes that Professor Reiss has behaved that badly then it should fire him but I have to say that, having read what he has said and written recently, it doesn't have a leg to stand on.
We gather Professor Reiss is a clergyman, which in itself is very worrisome. Who on earth thought that he would be an appropriate Director of Education, who could be expected to answer questions about the differences between science and religion in a scientific, reasoned way?
2. Pat Condell: Anthology DVD available now!
Comment #172933 by Julius Morche on April 30, 2008 at 7:24 am
Comment #172916 by Steve Zara on April 30, 2008 at 7:03 am
Very obvious ones too, which is why I don't see the point.
3. Pat Condell: Anthology DVD available now!
Comment #172914 by Julius Morche on April 30, 2008 at 7:00 am
@ MPhil:
Rether is not a good satirist, regardless of how many funny lines he may have written in the past, for the simple reason that he has not adopted Tucholsky's important commandment that EVERYTHING should be subject to satirical treatment. It is certainly to be welcomed that he pokes fun at the pope, but the only reason he does it is because the Catholic Church is not protected by PC; not because he has a genuine point to make. He knows that treating Muslim bigotry the same way he treats Catholic peculiarities would cause him quite some trouble, so he keeps quiet about it and even tries to suck up to the very people who would deserve his satirical contempt much more than the pope. That is cowardice par excellence, and since H. Rether has mastered this attitude like no other representative of "POLITISCHES KABARETT" I can possibly think of, I don't believe he has any right to call himself a satirist at all. He should shut up for a good while and only return to stage once he has learned his lessons from the Danish Cartoon Crisis (I'm sure REAL political satirists, like Philippe Val, will be happy to help him with that).
Btw, it's nice to see the German community at RD.net growing...
@ Steve Z.:
Condell makes some very SERIOUS and IMPORTANT points. It doesn't really matter whether he is funny or not. He is certainly very eloquent and has a good sense of irony; granted, some of what he says is "simplistic", as you put it, but it does lie in the nature if ironic statements to simplify things. If you believe George Carlin is not being "simplistic" in what he says, you are fooling yourself (Brigstocke certainly is, to a far greater degree than Condell).
If you really want to know how necessary his rants against Islam really are, just listen to the response-videos posted on YouTube by some radical representatives of the religion of peace.
And just as a little disclaimer: I am neither "racist" nor "islamophobic" - I've got nothing against Islam* and I don't mind having mosques around. I just don't see the point of exempting Islam from satire.
*the kind of Islam practised by people like Ed Hussein or Bassam Tibi.
4. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #161277 by Julius Morche on April 15, 2008 at 5:23 am
207. Comment #160130 by Stephen Maxwell
Julius, I apologise if you've answered already but since you attend Catholic mass...
Do you kneel?
5. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #160120 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Geoff
I guess you are right. My apathy results from my conviction that the Catholic Church will have officially abandoned its belief system within a few decades. By then, all Catholics will be cultural Catholics anyway. Many Catholics already are today.
But of course it's always good to make your concerns heard where you have them.
6. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159954 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 1:15 pm
197. Comment #159941 by Noodly
I'll try it one last time. A church service can be two things:
a) an expression of belief
b) a cultural institution
Since I am not a believer, it is only a cultural institution to me. Accidentally, you are not asked about your beliefs before entering a church, so I don't even have to pretend being a believer. I don't say prayers in silence, and the common prayers I recite the way I would recite a poem. Most of the common prayers of the Catholic rite actually ARE great poems. You can perfectly listen to a priest performing the rite of transubstantiation without actually believing that he is "apparently transforming bread into flesh". You can just enjoy it as a beautiful ritual that is 2000 years old. It's fiction, for god's sake (literally)!
You still haven't explained why you're worried about people like me - how do we impinge on your freedom to enjoy the trappings of religion?
7. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159840 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 8:24 am
161. Comment #159801 by black wolf
black wolf,
That wasn't exactly my point. Your figures may be right, but the German Catholic Church is not a charity and I didn't claim it was. I said its expenses are overwhelmingly supportable by rational people. I wouldn't want my Church contribution to be used for anything vicious, such as school lessons where children get taught about hell. And you will have a hard time finding such a thing in Germany and possibly Europe as a whole if you focus on the Catholic Church and not on crazy evangelical movements. Having said that, there may be a few items on the German Catholic Church's balance sheet that I would object to. That's why I said "overwhelmingly supportable", not "generally supportable."
162. Comment #159802 by Noodly
You haven't understood the concept of Catholic Atheism at all. My point is precisely that there SHOULDN'T be any indoctrination. If you want to fight indoctrination, I am your brother in arms. The point of Catholic Atheism is to preserve the cultural elements of religion WITHOUT ANY DOGMAS and irrational claims. If the Church held "back the advancement of civilisation" in the past, that was down to dogmatism, certainly not to processions, singing, organ playing and the wearing of robes. These things are just artefacts and thus part of the very essence of civilisation (please don't get back to me, like a previous poster did, by saying that these things will "crowds out the rational part of the brain" or simply re-enforce the belief system- no they won't, if one is rational and intellectually honest).
I assume you must be from Bavaria or a similar Catholic dominated society where it's so endemic that it's difficult to stand back and look at the absurdity of it all. I'm not saying that members of such societies are stupid in any way - simply victims of a vicious meme.
8. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159790 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 6:53 am
155. Comment #159772 by esuther
But if it's the frisson of being part of a major spectacle that turns you on, you should consider making the pilgrimage to Mecca. Just imagine what goes through the mind of a man who is circling the Kabba stone shoulder to shoulder with ten thousand other believers. If he had the slightest shred of doubt before coming, he will lose it then.
My point is that the thrill of spectacle is a dangerous thing. It ramps up the emotions and crowds out the rational part of the brain. (In my personal case, when I hear the final measures of the Hallelujah Chorus, my atheism gets locked in a closet for a few moments.
Why don't you just go more often to the opera? I would suggest Tosca for starters.
9. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159768 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 4:44 am
151. Comment #159755 by Corylus
Dear Corylus,
Thanks for your interest.
Actually the amount of money the churches collect at these occasions is rather negligible. These offerings are symbolic rather than real. I usually hope that the coins that I throw into the collection plate (if I have any on me, I wouldn't sacrifice a note) are going to be used for historic building conservation, sensible charitable activities and stuff like that, not for anything like exorcisms. Although I'm currently living in London, I pay my church contributions in Germany and I know that the expenses of the German Catholic Church are to an overwhelming extent sensible and supportable by any rational person.
I am far from claiming that all Catholics are Catholic in my sense, which is essentially Catholic Atheism. There are a lot of developments within the Catholic Church that trouble me, but the liturgy is surely not one of them. And since I only indulge in liturgy, not in exorcisms etc., it is not my job to worry about these things.
OK, not my idea of enjoyment. I would rather have a lay in on a Sunday morning. Going to church would involve waking up early, putting and on my best clothes, going to a big building, listening to man droning on etc... only to fall back asleep again! . Personally, I would rather just roll over, start snoring again and save myself the whole effort :)
10. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159742 by Julius Morche on April 13, 2008 at 2:55 am
123. Comment #159671 by Teratornis
I'm curious to know where you rank this particular worry on your personal hierarchy of worries. For example, would you rank this worry about the preservation of religious tradition above or below each of the following worries:
1. The rise of Islamic fundamentalism
2. The rise of the Christian right in the U.S.
3. Peak oil and its immediate consequence, the worsening global food crisis, which is unfolding before us right now, along with the potential worst-case scenario, the collapse of industrial civilization, which might occur in just 10 to 20 years
4. Global warming, which in the worst case might render Earth uninhabitable by humans, perhaps in 30 to 100 years (this assumes civilization gets through peak oil and manages to keep burning through the remaining fossil fuels at the projected rates)
If you had been raised by football fans, and then if you lost your interest in football, how much would you care about preserving football, and why?
Do you see religion as more important than any other form of entertainment, and if so, why?
Religions routinely go extinct just like many other cultural constructs go extinct.
I've heard of a few people getting exercised over languages going extinct. I have a really hard time understanding the problem. Linguistic diversity, as far as I can tell, has an extremely poor ratio of benefits to costs.
But what ancient religious tradition has any practical value? Which of our pressing problems can we attack any more efficiently by studying religious entertainments?
Historians can get excited about whatever they like. You may notice there aren't a lot of historians.
One does, however, have to adhere to a bit of irrationality to imagine that everyone should share one particular taste in entertainment.
A reasonable appreciation of reality leads us to conclude that religions are a form of entertainment. Entertainments come and go. A few eccentrics might try to carry on classical entertainment traditions that the vast majority of people care nothing about, and I don't see a problem if that's what they want to pursue.
The cathedrals are less objectively impressive than the Egyptian pyramids, which were earlier and even more stupidly expensive attempts at immortality through piling up rocks. Do you equally support the maintenance of ancient Egyptian tradition?
A fair number of eccentrics do take an interest in Egyptology, but I haven't heard many Egyptologists insisting that we should all share their interest. Maybe some do, I suppose.
Sure, and almost always this will be at taxpayer expense, because the result is unlikely to lead to any product which sells.
Anthropologists don't work cheaply. They have to get funded and paid. The private sector doesn't tend to support anthropological studies of religion because these studies add nothing which markets can find a way to value.
11. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159658 by Julius Morche on April 12, 2008 at 6:18 pm
116. Comment #159656 by Dr Benway
Julius Morche, you missed the word "if." Dawkins said, "If that's what Collins believes then..."
12. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159621 by Julius Morche on April 12, 2008 at 4:31 pm
101. Comment #159573 by Noodly
Having been brought up as a cultural Catholic I can't see any value in religious traditions whatsoever. After all, they only exist to reinforce the belief systems espoused by the religion in the first place.
name one purely religious tradition that isn't stupid
13. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159547 by Julius Morche on April 12, 2008 at 1:13 pm
77. Comment #159504 by Geoff
Why should it? The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in gods. There's no reason to suppose that this lack of belief automatically means reasoning in other subjects.
Richard calls himself a "cultural christian", he's addressing those who actually believe in their religion, not people like yourself.
Richard originally says that he doesn't think Collins believes in the talking snake. He accepts Maher's story, perhaps out of politeness to his host?
14. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159492 by Julius Morche on April 12, 2008 at 9:59 am
@ IPV4
Based on good evidence but does not list any.spoken like a true republican.
15. Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher
Comment #159450 by Julius Morche on April 12, 2008 at 8:12 am
Prof. Dawkins,
With all due respect, I think your appearance on this programme was a big own goal. Beside the fact that insulting fellow scientists on third-rate talk shows is unlikely to improve your standing with the people you are trying to convince, it is particularly unfortunate to have made such comments in the company of Bill Maher. This man is the best example that being an atheist does not automatically make you a reasonable person. His childish equating of "religion" with "belief" is not only extremely silly, it is also rather disturbing to people like me, who do not believe in anything supernatural but nevertheless value the religious traditions they grew up with for purely cultural reasons.
Regardless of how intellectually dishonest Dr Collins may be, he certainly does not believe in a "talking snake"* for he is an evolutionists and a fellow combatant in the fight against creationism and ID. A belief in a "talking snake", in contrast, requires a literal understanding of scripture.
You have taught us not to believe anything based on bad evidence, for which you ought to be commended. Unfortunately, you have just done something much worse. You have INSULTED someone (to me, dismissing a respected scientist as "not a bright guy" on national television is an insult) based on very bad evidence, namely the ill-informed comments made by an attention-seeking, third-class talk-show host and wannabe-comedian. As a fellow "Atheist" (like Sam Harris, I can't stand this term) and as a deep admirer of your work, I advise you to make future TV appearances only on programmes that allow you to demonstrate your high level of sophistication, not on shallow talk-shows that put you on one scale with unintelligent blithering idiots like Mr Maher.**
*brilliant, supposedly funny over-simplification copyrighted by Bill Maher
** my insults to Mr Maher are based on very good evidence: just listen to what the guy says on literally any topic, i.e. religion, Europe, Iraq, his hero George Galloway etc.