Comments by TheTruthID

1. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173328 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 4:07 pm

repost-Don't know why sometimes my post doesn't show-up.

To All Again,

I want to clarify my thoughts to you. This might take awhile for I want to make sure I articulate it properly. Be back soon.

2. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173326 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:59 pm

Goldy,

No, I said I have some INDIRECT frustrations between Evolution and ID.

3. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173321 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:55 pm

Titania,

What I'm trying to say is, for the purposes of this conversation, my personal spiritual God is irrelevant to the discussion. I recognize that there are many different religions which belive in different Gods then I do. I don't understand what the point is of pinning me down to a specific religion. On the basis of this discussion, there can be five of us whom practice different religions with differnt Gods and or no religion but just a non-worshiped higher power, and making total complementary rebuttals against a belief in Evolution. Why are you putting confines on a specific God?

4. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173316 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:41 pm

Goldy,

This is your opinion, and I am not going to debate religion with anyone. This always leads to a lose, lose situation for both sides.

5. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173314 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Titania,

Yes I personally believe in a creator. But my stance is based soley on a higher power or source. I will never be able to prove any God or creator let alone a supernatural power. I don't think the point should be about my creator. There are plenty of people whom claim to belive in a supernatural power or designer of life, but are agnostic and do not worship this power. It is just there. Make sense or not?

6. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173309 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Titania,

No, I would not call myself a Jew for Jesus. I was raised Jewish, more culturely then religiously, and have since accepted Jesus as the Messiah promised the Jews in the Old Testament. Jew for Jesus, I feel, have a political agenda.

7. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173301 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:27 pm

Titania,

No and yes. Yes I am a Messianic Jew. But no, my perspective has nothing to do with a specific religious God or religion. I've always stated that any conclusions I have come up with in my mind is not towards any specific religion. I agree that everyone has a right to their own spiritual beliefs. During this whole time, I have never made reference to my religion being a part of my belief or unbelief in evolution. Hope this makes sense.

8. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173294 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:21 pm

To All,

As stated before, I have conceded that any religion or reference to a supernatural power in regards to science is not science. What I am trying to more fully understand is the controversy surrounding this issue. This is why I asked this question to Dr. Zara.

9. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173289 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Titania,

That's what I thought. I'm Jewish, so I thought you using that word was funny.

10. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173280 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Steve Zara,

That's fine. How do we deal with gaps in knowledge? This is not a trick question. I have some thoughts, but want clarity on your view/explanation for this.

11. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173262 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 2:52 pm

Hi Dr. Zara,

Quick question. I hope you will be honest with me. In regards to Evolution, from the first life form until what we have now, would you say that every step of the process is scientific fact? Are there any times in the process where one has to infer or assume something, no matter how little,during this process? If there is any area which is inferred, I do realize any inferrence would be based on the observable scientific evidence within the process using scientific principles and doctrines.

12. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173252 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Anyone tell me how I go about sending a private e-mail? When I click on a name in the comments, it tells me to log in. Then it tells me my ID is not active. But then how am I logged in if I'm not active? Confused.

13. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #173206 by TheTruthID on April 30, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Titania,

Yes I know what chutzpah means. How do you know Yiddish?

14. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #172568 by TheTruthID on April 29, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Titania,

I would like the opportunity to clarify myself and answer some of your questions. Why did I not conduct myself with courtesy from the start? Well, I made the mistake, like everyone does at times, to stereotype and make assumptions. As in most instances in which I've attempted to discuss Evolution vs. ID previously, the usual initial response is a personal attack. Something you'll have to trust me on, but when starting with a simple question, like, Why does science not allow for the supernatural? A typical response would be "you are just a religious nut, and ignorant, go read a book. Not justifying my behavior, but this was the assumption I used when engaging this forum. As far as my apology, I did mention Elli by name in my apology, and you are right in that I should make amends to each directly. That will be done. We all are guilty of this behavior at some time. An assumption is made by non-Christians and or Atheist's that Christians think of themselves as righteous and holier than holier. I am no more righteous or holy then anyone else. We all fall short at times. You stated that you try not to do things that would require forgiveness from anyone. In your response though, you stereotyped Christians as one of three abuser groups who respond to disagreement with vitriol spew and that Christians often say and do horrible things to people. I take offense to this. We all say and do horrible things to people. We all are human. We are all guilty, and we all seek forgiveness at times. Would it upset you if I made the statement that Atheists are often evil and satanic? As for forgiveness, yes, I would like to be forgiven for my conduct., but this is out of my control. I, as well as many Christians, view forgiveness as a healing process for the one being asked for forgiveness. When one asks for forgiveness, they are hoping that the forgiver is sincere and genuine. If you can't forgive in a genuine and sincere matter, how are you able to ever request forgiveness yourself. I hope you understand what I just said. So yes, it is your choice in whether to forgive or not, not because I ask. Finally, in my apology letter, I did not use the word problems. I stated that I had indirect frustrations in regards to the Evolution-ID debate, which are more philosophical in nature.

15. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #172158 by TheTruthID on April 29, 2008 at 9:25 am

I realize and accept the fact, after what accured previously, that some still question my motives. All I can say is what I said in my letter.
Titania, is not convined that my apology is trustworthy or sufficient. That's fine. I don't fault that. Those of you who have given me the benefit of the doubt, and choose to continue this discussion in a more thoughtful, appropriate, respectful, and civilized matter, I truly thank you. Hopefully, with time, you will evolve (just a joke)and realize whom I claim to be is real.

Note: Titania,

Yes, as admitted, I do regret that I allowed myself to lash out in such a dispicable bitter manner. But you need to understand that my frustration is more complicated then simply the controversy of Evolution vs. ID. I know that's not an excuse for my behavior. There are a lot of philosophical issues in which I'm frustrated with that is an offshoot of this debate. May be we can eventually explore these?

I recently moved, so a lot of my books are in storage. The Evolutionary based books I have read, in which I have on me are:

-What Evolution Is (Ernst Mayr)
-The Evolutionists (Richard Morris)
-At The Water's Edge (Carl Zimmer)
In addition to articles and papers.

I would be more then happy to discuss and read other books in which you recommenend.

16. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171789 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Dr. Zara,

Earlier, I believe you stated that there is only one definition of Evolution and the Creationists were the ones who came up with Microevolution and Macroevolution. Why is it that in all the books, papers, video, Etc. I've read or viewed, in regards to Evolution, mention and define these two separate evolutionary terms?

I also want to clarify something. In an earlier response you gave to me, it seemed that you were classifying a inherit trait/gene passed down from one generation to another as a mutation? So if my father had a large nose and I had an even larger nose this would be the result of a mutation?

I'm am just trying to get some clarity for moving forward in our discussion. These two responses to my earlier questions seem to go against my previous understandings.

17. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171788 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Epinephrine,

I did watch the other video. Again, I know you make no distinction between what I call Micro vs. Macro Evolution, but in my mind, this video explained micro-evolution in which I readily understand. I swear that I'm not trying to frustrate you or I am not intentially being hard-headed, I am being truly honest. Colors change, sizes change, but to add an appendage? Would not every random mutation between the first and the final need to be advantageous in itself in order for natural selection to continue in that direction. How would the first mutation leading to a hand offer a beneficial advantage for natural selection to continue in that direction?

Please have patience with me.

18. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171696 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 5:29 pm

Have to go. Talk to you soon.

Take Care

19. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171692 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 5:26 pm

Epinephrine,

I definately will watch this video. Unfortunately I have limited time know, so check back soon and I hoepfully will have had a chance to view and share my thoughts.

20. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171690 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 5:23 pm

Dr. Zara,

Since you are a Dr., I believe you stated in biology, I want to reiterate this statement or my viewpoint. I realize and accept as fact that ID theory has no place in the scientific realm. I belive the definition states the exclusivity of natural laws. This makes sense, because there is no way, scientifically at least, to prove anything in the supernatural world. The Evolution proponents claim that since IDers can't prove any of their theories, all they do is to attempt to poke holes and weaken the Evolution Theory. IDers do honestly belive that if they are capable of disproving Evolution, this will lead to the only other viable alternative, ID. Yes, all IDers I know make this claim. I know the Evolutionary proponents don't agree with this. I feel that the reason Evolution proponents feel all IDers do is attack their theory vs. trying to qualify their own is reasonable. But this is due to the IDers are using the same scientific evidence to state their theory. So what looks like an attack on Evolution theory is really an attempt at a different theory using the same evidence. (whether right or wrong). The IDers can say the same. They could claim that the evolutionary proponents, using the same evidence, attacks or trys to poke holes, weaken or disprove ID. (I'm not saying there theory is scientifically viable but that they can voice this issue) I hope you understand what I'm trying to express.

21. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171676 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Hi Dr. Zara,

Hope you had a chance to read my Comment #170485.

Yes I see where you are going with this. I feel, the 12 Dice scenario isn't effective as a clear understanding of this process.

22. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #171648 by TheTruthID on April 28, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Geoff,

Just finished watching the 12 dice video in regards to chance and generations needed to accomplish a certain beneficial trait. I fully understand the explanation comparing a one-time all inclusive roll of all dice in an attempt to have each one land on 6 vs. continuous successive rolls until all dice are on 6. Each time the dice are rolled, any dice rolling a 6 which adds length to the string will now freeze with the other number 6 dice until you have a full set of 12 dice with the number 6. This does raise a question for me. Let's say a certain offspring has a random genetic defect which through natural selection gives it a more advantageous chance of surviving, thus passing on this advantage to further generations. Using the scenario presented in the video, any additional advantage to the offspring would require the same mutation near or directly related to the genes on the previous mutation, which direct this function. If possible mutations are random and infinite, and it's the natural selection that directs this randomness, what determines the result of the first mutation freeze as the defining start of the adaptation mutation process. In breeding, can I assume that not all traits are passed on to offspring? For example. Let's say we have specimen with a little neck and small pin eyes, making it hard to reach food as well as susceptible to predators. I am assuming the survival obstacles of the beginning less complex or celled animals would have many more ultimate survival deficiencies than the more later complex or evolved ones. This specimen than breeds an offspring with a mutation of the small pin eyes (the number 6 on a die) which, only by 1%, gives it an advantage over other the specimens in relation to predators. Now this specimen, which rolled the number 6, has an offspring which passed down this genetic defect to one offspring, but had an additional offspring which did not inherit this specific genetic defect. The offspring which did not inherit the prior mutation, though did have a different mutation (the number 4 on a dice) which gave it a little longer neck, thus making it more adaptable to reaching the necessary food source. This resulted in the ability of the number 4 dice to survive through the natural selection process more advantageously then the number 6 dice. But, this number 4 Dice did not inherit the number 6 Dice trait or mutation. I am also assuming that the chance of a beneficial mutation are the same for further benefiting an adaptation in process as in a whole different beneficial mutation. This is where I have trouble with the 12 Dice explanation. I know this is layman's language. I hope you get the essence of my thoughts.

23. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170695 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:26 pm

I think it's time to hit the sack. I am truly grateful for your acceptance of my apology. The discussion we had tonight was much more in the way we should treat all discussions. If there is anyway any of you can relay my apology to the people my letter was intended for, I would appreciate it. Looking forward to continue.

Your Friend,
Adam

24. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170688 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:16 pm

This is where my main contention lies. I truly find it inconceivable the chances, even with the amount of time, that exact beneficial mutations on the same exact genes on the correct offspring can mathematically happen.

25. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170680 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:12 pm

Greybishop,

No, ID'ers truly believe that there are only two options. Chance or a Designer. If IDers can disprove or weaken Evolution Theory then the only other alternative would have to be a designer.

26. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170676 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:08 pm

willlllllllll,

No, I'm not trying to waste your time. I'm trying to make sense of it all.

27. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170672 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:06 pm

riandouglas,

No there is no proven scientific theory of ID. And yes, I plan on reading that paper.

28. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170667 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 10:02 pm

Regarding Dawkins eye lecture. Let's say there was a population of a certain type of pin-eyed creatures. In breeding, a speciman was born with a mutation in which the skin around it's eye protruded by 1%. Now, this one speciman would need to survive in order to reproduce. The mutation was so small that it really did not give much of an advantage over the other like specimans. There would then be a period of time where the offspring, generations down the line, of this one speciman resulted in an identical mutation on the same exact gene resulting in a little bigger protrusion. Over many years the result would be a population of specimans/creatures with a more complex and developed eye. The result of many exactly the same mutations on the same exact genes utilizing natural selection for a now fully involved eye for survival. Please clarify, correct or confirm.

29. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170655 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 9:49 pm

The only alternative ID's have is to attempt to declare that Evolution is not proven due to the holes and weaknesses whatever that might be. Process of elimination. No evolution means what?

30. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170651 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 9:46 pm

Greybishop,

In my apology letter I stated that I came to the conclusion that discussing evolution vs. ID strictly on a scientific basis is futile. The only answers I had were to attack evolution vs. defend a theory that is beyond the scope of scientific reason. Supernatural laws cannot and are not viable in the scientific realm. Science does not allow it. So my intent was to intentually incite you in response to my inabilty and frustration of not being able to use any unproven supernatural explanations. How could I answer them?

31. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170642 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 9:35 pm

I have enough trouble putting words into my own mouth.

32. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170635 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 9:31 pm

Brian English,

Yes, it was a slip up. Sorry.

33. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170626 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 9:21 pm

Quine,

Just finished viewing the evolution of the eys by Dr. Dawkins.

To summarize, I beleive what he said is this. Small excremental mutations with natural selection resulted in the evolution of the eye.

Is this correct?

34. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170603 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:59 pm

riandouglas,

No I'm not smellhound.

35. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170601 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:57 pm

No I disagree that we all share common moral standards. Is it right for an adult man to marry a minor. In some societies it is. Is porn right? Some say it is degrading to women. Others say if they are adults, it's their business.

36. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170594 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Brian English,

Is not that an assupmtion, the fact that there are not as many soft-bodied fossils is due to they don't fossilize well

37. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170587 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:48 pm

In regards to moral standards. How can a society sustain if there are no acceptable universaly agreed upon standards? If we all have our own, then anything goes. There is no right from wrong.

38. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170581 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:45 pm

What are your thoughts in regards to the Cambrian explosion used by ID proponents as proof of spontaneous origin vs. gradual evolution?

39. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170572 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:40 pm

Brian English,

What do you think that limit is?

40. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170563 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:36 pm

Goldy,

Yes, but cars and flying objects are designed.

41. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170557 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:32 pm

I understand the eys's are not identical. But the mere fact that they independently separately involved but yet are so similar is astounding to me considering the variables and circumstances.

42. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170542 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Brian English,

That's a real problem for me. That the eye can evolve separately several times by chance and be so alike. It just does not reason with me.

43. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170539 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:21 pm

Roland_F,

You mentioned the eye. The ID scientist rebutt this with that the cambrian explosion has fossils of all phyla represented today. Which therefore implies that the eyes of humans, octopuses, and others would have to of evolved each separately. The chances?

44. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170532 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:14 pm

riandouglas,

I have done number 3. I have read, combined, over 20 books on the subjects of Evolution and ID. I realize, that a far more number of scientists are pro evolution,but it seems that the ID scientists are able to poke holes or weaken the Evolution theory enough to cause doubt, at least to me. Yes the lack of true scientific, observable, Etc. for ID is true but should I automaticaly accept evolution? If evolution is set-in-stone, why are so many scientists rebutting it and causing this controversy? Is it not career suicide? What motivation do they have? Has there been in the past a scientific surety that has resulted in so much debate and controversy? This is not an attack. I'm just looking for your opinion.

45. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170518 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 8:00 pm

riandouglas,

Why the change of heart. I realized I let my frustrations get a hold of me. That perosn is not who I am. I am a very spiritual, loving and caring person who is very frustrated. My real issues are more philosophical in nature. I feel our society is gradually deteriorating when it comes to our universal moral standards.

46. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170507 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 7:52 pm

annabanana,

I understand. Honestly, my personal opinion is not based on the bible. I admit I am not a scientist or claim to be one, but the complexity and evolution of life just seems so unlikley to of happened by chance.

47. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170495 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Dr. Benway,

Thanks for the forgivenrss. (I hope). Yes, if using the acceptable protocals or doctrines of science, I do accept that any supernatural ideas or theories cannot fall into this realm.

48. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170485 by TheTruthID on April 27, 2008 at 7:34 pm

April 27

To All,

During the past week I've been initiating very offensive verbal personal attacks to some of you. I want to state that I'm truly sorry. I hold myself accountable and am ashamed of my behavior. I admit, that my motive from the beginning, was to taunt and anger you. Why? Because of my frustration of the controversy between Evolution and ID. After seeing the movie "Expelled", I realize any discussion between the two parties is futile. At times, all humans reach a point of frustration and anger in which things are said. Well I hit that point. None of you deserved this verbal treatment. I want to personally apologize to Elli, especially. What I said was mean, evil and vicious. I truly am sorry. Yes I am Christian. Yes I believe in the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible. Yes I believe in Jesus Christ. Yes, I am human. I do realize that Creation, thus no evolution needed, does not in itself fall into the realm of science doctrine. Creation Theory still and will always need that "leap of faith". Even though I'm a Creationist, I do not attempt to argue for the God of the Bible. Any argument for a designer or creator, in my discussions , are merely for a higher power or source. I don not attempt to argue for any specific God or higher power. You might disagree, but I don't think this is a specific religious issue. That is why I refrain from using the word Creation vs. ID.

Evolutionary Theorists (please correct if I'm wrong with the title) claim that ID proponents strategy is to merely attempt to poke holes and show weaknesses in Evolution. This is absolutely true. We have nothing else. Many times things become accepted, through the process of elimination. I realize there is nothing an ID proponent can offer, in way of science, using accepted scientific principles that will be accepted by Evolutionary proponents. The supernatural is not, and cannot be accepted in scientific protocols. This leaves ID proponents with only one option. That is to attempt to poke holes and show weaknesses in Evolution.

The bottom line is, any discussions, no matter what each believes, should not turn into what happened here. I honestly do respect each and everyone of you. That should be the standard in all discussions.

Again, please forgive me for my words and behavior. I was wrong and hold myself accountable.

Sincerely,

Adam