1. Interview with Sam Harris

Comment #290003 by discipline on November 24, 2008 at 1:31 pm

Smith #14:

Thanks for the excellent link to the Sam Harris interview. I encourage everyone to listen to that one. It contains such interesting/surprising factoids as this: his current path to atheism/neuroscience was inspired originally by the drug Ecstasy (MDMA)!

I like Sam, probably because his story somewhat parallels my own. (I substituted Ecstasy for other controlled substances, however!)

2. New legal threat to school science in the US

Comment #207435 by discipline on July 9, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Just give up already. Your country is fucked.

3. PZ Myers - Expelled from Expelled

Comment #201787 by discipline on June 30, 2008 at 9:12 am

#16 Roger Stanyard:

'Organisations such as the Christiann Coaltion, the Moral Majority, Focus on the Family, the National Association of Evangelicals, Truth in Science and the Discovery Institute are deeply political organisations."

Precisely! The actual substance of the evolution debate is almost irrelevant. The "god question" was solved centuries ago -- what remains is a tactical/strategic/PR battle. And the pro-science crowd isn't winning, at least here in the US.

As I said in another post, the ID movement is inextricably entangled with conservative American politics. Thus, they are also anti-environmentalism, anti-abortion, anti-gay, climate change deniers, etc.

When the Discovery Institute rants about "materialism" what they really mean is "liberalism." This is why they are so persistent and attract so much funding. It's all about propagating the right-wing agenda (which ultimately comes down to protecting their economic interests). Whether or not they actually believe what they say about god/evolution is a mystery.

4. The Latest Wedge Document

Comment #200090 by discipline on June 26, 2008 at 8:48 pm

Reminds me of a classic...

Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

5. On the Origin of a Theory

Comment #195809 by discipline on June 18, 2008 at 9:07 pm

Interesting stuff... yet more evidence against the feeble attempt by creationists to tar evolutionary biology as "Darwinism."

Funny too: "I hate a Barnacle as no man ever did before."

6. Only a Theory

Comment #193862 by discipline on June 16, 2008 at 6:48 am

The Wedge ... addresses the need to replace a "materialistic worldview"

7. The Great Evangelical Decline

Comment #189118 by discipline on June 5, 2008 at 1:39 pm

> evengelicals are definitely having a hard time up here!

I see no evidence of this here in rural Virginia. I not only have yet to ever see a church close, but new churches are being built all the time. Evangelicals may not be growing in number, but they still retain massive power to influence education and other social policy issues.

Evangelicalism is all about financial and political power -- the actual beliefs and practices are secondary. Just as I don't see a decline in right-wing Republicans, I don't see evangelicals fading away any time soon.

Don't forget that 40-50% of Americans are creationists. It's going to literally take generations to achieve Dawkins-style scientific rationality. It's too early to celebrate yet.

8. Louisiana's latest creationism bill moves to House floor

Comment #185448 by discipline on May 27, 2008 at 8:28 pm

The re-branding of creationism as an academic freedom issue is a brilliant PR/marketing scheme by the Discovery Institute et al. It is perfectly designed to hit Americans in their sweet spot. I predict that even moderate Christians will be swayed by the "freedom" argument. I'd be surprised if bills like this don't pass in multiple states.

Obviously, the "god question" was solved centuries ago -- what remains is a tactical/strategic battle... and science and reason aren't winning.

9. Animal Science Without Evolution

Comment #185336 by discipline on May 27, 2008 at 2:00 pm

I used to mock and dismiss Christian homeschooling texts like this. Now that I have children, they disgust and infuriate me.

Christian homeschooling is rapidly growing: millions of US children are already homeschooled. Since only a certain (probably small) percentage of these kids will ever escape the indoctrination, homeschooling is a clear danger for the future of US competitiveness -- not to mention being just plain wrong. California recently made some tentative progress in regulating these people: (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1720697,00.html?imw=Y), but there are 49 other states.

It's often said that organizing atheists is like herding cats, but this seems like an issue that most of us can agree upon -- and get politically active about.

Who's with me?

10. That's it. Texas really is doomed.

Comment #185224 by discipline on May 27, 2008 at 8:22 am

Honestly, have some of you even been to America?

11. Trouble ahead for science

Comment #177244 by discipline on May 8, 2008 at 8:11 pm

#37: Exquisite Truth: "People in more enlightened regions have no idea how ubiquitous faith and religion are in this region."

Indeed, I've been harping about that on this site for some time. I live in rural Virginia and I think that the outlook is quite grim. Yes, truth/reality may triumph eventually, but not necessarily before the U.S. goes down in flames.

The fundies long ago realized that the most effective way to retain their economic/political power (which is really all they care about), is to focus their energies on 1) childhood indoctrination via homeschooling, 2) proselytizing in developing countries (eg, China, Africa), and 3) creating a cradle-to-grave alternate society (Christian universities, Christian "scientific" journals, Christian TV and radio, Christian banks, Christian phone companies, etc, etc). They've been incredibly successful doing all these things.

These people have a LOT of motivation and money ... and guns. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

12. Evolution's Critics Shift Tactics With Schools

Comment #175320 by discipline on May 5, 2008 at 8:30 am

As I predicted from the start, the re-branding of creationism as "academic freedom" is working. This new strategy from the Discovery Institute is brilliant marketing, which is one thing that Christian fundamentalists excel at.

I would be surprised if these sorts of bills don't pass in all conservative red states (ie, the majority of the US).

The only hope left is that when ID is taught alongside evolution in public schools, it'll fail under the weight of the evidence -- if the biology teacher is not a stealth creationist, that is.

The US is clearly in a downward spiral, and this is just yet another example.

13. Science leads to killing people

Comment #170952 by discipline on April 28, 2008 at 7:12 am

Cartomancer: "Day is night and night is day, the truth is a lie and the lies are true."

The doublespeak among the Christian Right is truly a wonder to behold. I've been browsing some of their blogs lately, such as (WARNING: don't click on these if you have high blood pressure)...

http://voxday.blogspot.com/
http://reasonablekansans.blogspot.com/
http://blog.coincidencetheories.com/

...and it's really amazing how inverted their thinking is. Whatever they are accused of, they project onto their accuser. They call evolution a "fairy tale for adults" whose proponents exhibit "confirmation bias." Sound familiar? It's breathtaking, really.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell

14. Investigating Atheism

Comment #166940 by discipline on April 23, 2008 at 1:56 pm

I've only slogged through parts of this site, but I'm unimpressed. I would expect better from an esteemed university than the familiar apologetics -- however nicely they are dressed up as "intellectual" theology.

Theology must be great for self-esteem: it gives people with pre-existing certainties the warm and fuzzy feeling that they are open-minded and educated.

15. The Child Preachers

Comment #163724 by discipline on April 18, 2008 at 9:53 pm

Despicable indeed. I'm (once again) embarrassed to be an American... and a human being.

This psychological abuse is likely enforced with physical abuse. After all, US evangelicals like James Dobson advocate beating children into obedience (see his book "Dare to Discipline"). A perfect summation of the Christian worldview.

16. Evolution: 24 myths and misconceptions

Comment #163307 by discipline on April 18, 2008 at 7:12 am

Here's another gem from the comments section in the New Scientist:

http://www.askdarwinists.com/

It appears to be written by a Turkish creationist -- you know, from the only country more ignorant of evolutionary biology than the US.

Looking at that site reminds me of our friend Dinesh D'Souza's immortal phrase: "I feel like a mosquito in a nudist colony." Where to start?

17. Evolution: 24 myths and misconceptions

Comment #163302 by discipline on April 18, 2008 at 6:59 am

Ygern: "The comments section on New Scientist are a bit depressing."

Indeed. My favorite is this one:

Physical fields propagating at the speed of light are preceded by nonlocal electric and magnetic potentials.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aharonov-Bohm_effect )

God is the sum of these potentials. Subtle is the Lord.

18. Evolution fray attracts top scientist

Comment #162252 by discipline on April 16, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Recent interview/podcast with Kroto:

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/sir_harold_kroto_science_education_and_freethinking/

Great to see somebody battling the forces of ignorance in the trenches... especially in a god-awful place like Florida.

19. Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss

Comment #162121 by discipline on April 16, 2008 at 7:38 am

Comment #67, macspoofing:

"real shame here is that atheism has been co-opted by the left"

Mostly true, but let's not forget that atheism is a "big tent" with right-wingers (Chistopher Hitchens) and Libertarians (Michael Shermer, Ayn Rand objectivists) playing a significant role. Obviously, not believing in gods should have no inherent relationship to politics.

That said, I doubt atheism is going to take hold in the US Republican Party any time soon, since independent thought is so actively discouraged there. Ditto with most Libertarians, since they are mostly corporate apologists or loony eccentrics (eg, Ron Paul).

20. The List: The World's Worst Religious Leaders

Comment #159267 by discipline on April 11, 2008 at 7:54 pm

Where the hell is James Dobson on this list?

He's the extreme right-wing Christian fascist homophobe who advocates beating children into submission.

Oh, and his organization has 2 million members and his media outlets reach over 200 million people per day:

http://www.slate.com/id/2109621/
http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=4257

And he enthusiastically endorses Expelled, of course:
http://listen.family.org/miscdaily/A000001036.cfm

He's the worst of the worst (in the US at least).

21. Reviews of Expelled

Comment #158247 by discipline on April 10, 2008 at 8:54 am

Lucas (#158197):

Yes, I admit that my views are colored by the fact that I live in the beating heart (or, as I call it, the open sore) of the Bible Belt.

The recent surveys I've seen are indeed encouraging (eg, the Pew study), but even your USA Today graphic shows that non-believers range from about 7% to 20% of the population, depending on the state. Good, but still far below European levels. Don't forget that surveys also show that 50-60% of Americans are creationists, and that's scary.

I assume that you live in the West coast or New England, so you may not realize the power that the Christian Right still holds on local and state politics and culture across the country. And the rise of Christian homeschooling promises more generations of brainwashed clones in the future (statistics here: http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statistics.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling#United_States)

You're right about the key question: how can US secularists/atheists organize and lobby more effectively? Thanks to the success of Richard et al., we're making progress, but it's going to be a long road...

22. Reviews of Expelled

Comment #158165 by discipline on April 10, 2008 at 6:55 am

As I wrote in another thread, the dismissive, derisive comments about Expelled on this site and other science blogs are irrelevant. In the US, agnostics/atheists/secularists/scientists are a tiny band of underfunded eccentrics in comparison to the mind-boggling financial power of the Christian Right.

The ID movement has hit upon a brilliant PR/marketing scheme: freedom. Check out the Discovery Institute home page, with titles like these:

"ANTI-FREEDOM ACTIVISTS TRY TO CENSOR SCIENCE EDUCATION IN FLORIDA"

This is an ingenious "re-branding" of creationism and is perfectly designed to hit Americans in their sweet spot. I predict that even moderate Christians will be swayed by the "freedom" argument. These people are genius marketers. (More evidence of this is the pro-Expelled "Beware the Believers" viral video, which fooled most on this site that it was actually pro-science!)

This film is not only outrageously offensive (exploiting the Holocaust -- wow!) but it's also very, very dangerous. Mocking it in blogs is fun but we need serious, measured, detailed responses to the film in every media outlet possible. The Shermer review is the best example of this I've seen so far.

Obviously, the "god question" was solved centuries ago -- what remains is a tactical/strategic battle.

23. Anti-evolution bill clears another hurdle

Comment #157497 by discipline on April 9, 2008 at 7:30 am

As a former resident of New England now living in rural Virginia, I often wish that the South had perhaps not won the Civil War, but at least been allowed to secede from the union. Problem solved....

I'm reminded of the "Jesusland" map from the 2004 election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

24. Get out of here, atheists!

Comment #156352 by discipline on April 7, 2008 at 11:25 am

As somebody on the Rational Responders site wrote: contrary to what this dimwit might think, Abraham Lincoln was an atheist (most of his life anyway). Here are some choice quotes:

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge J S Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death, quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker."

“What is to be, will be, and no prayers of ours can arrest the decree.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Mary Todd Lincoln in William Herndon's Religion of Lincoln, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beleifs of Our Presidents, p. 118

“It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to Infidelity.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, Manford's Magazine, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, p. 144

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker"

“The only person who is a worse liar than a faith healer is his patient.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Victor J Stenger in Physics and Psychics

“Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes his aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not that we be not judged.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, sarcasm in his Second Innaugural Address (1865)

“It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, chiding the editor of a Springfield, Illinois, newspaper, quoted from Antony Flew, How to Think Straight, p. 17

“Oh, that [his Thanksgiving Message] is some of Seward's nonsense, and it pleases the fools.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge James M Nelson, in response to a question from Nelson: "I once asked him about his fervent Thanksgiving Message and twitted him with being an unbeliever in what was published." Quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, p. 138

“The United States government must not undertake to run the Churches. When an individual, in the Church or out of it, becomes dangerous to the public interest he must be checked.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, regarding the Churches, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beliefs of Our Presidents, p. 143

25. Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

Comment #154445 by discipline on April 3, 2008 at 9:27 am

"her beliefs are rooted in biblical passages that she said characterizes homosexuality as a sin. "

She's right about that at least. I never understood why moderate Christians don't understand the condemnation of homosexuality in Leviticus. Seems pretty clear to me.

The more Sally Kerns, the better, in my opinion. The more laughably extreme the Christian Right becomes, the more quickly they'll fade into well-deserved obscurity.

26. CEAI Action Alert for Science Teachers

Comment #154175 by discipline on April 2, 2008 at 7:49 pm

Shuggy: "They're anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-gay-marriage, and associated with a pro-beating-of-children group"

Correct. James Dobson is the perfect storm of ignorance, arrogance and greed -- the Unholy Trinity. If I believed in evil, he would personify it. And yes, he actually does advocate physically beating children into obedience. A perfect summation of the Christian worldview.

Dobson is even farther to the right than the typical American evangelical -- he opposed their recent push to start recognizing the importance of global warming and other environmental issues.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/evangelical.rift/index.html

A truly frightening and despicable character.

27. Faith healing church parents charged over toddler's death

Comment #153671 by discipline on April 1, 2008 at 7:46 pm

SweatyPalmSunday:

If we decide that humanly killing a 6 month old fetus is against the law, then surely humanly killing a 25 year old chimpanzee should be too.

28. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #150118 by discipline on March 26, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Disgusting.

I encourage everybody here to write a (calm, civil) letter to the Police Chief mentioned in this story. Urge him to bring charges against these idiots. The contact info:

http://www.everestmetropolice.org/empd_contact.htm

24 Hour Non-Emergency - 715-261-1200

Department Office - 715-359-4202 (8am-5pm Monday - Friday)

Crime Stoppers - 1-800-559-4203

Schofield & Weston Municipal Court - 359-3333

District Attorney's Office & Victim Witness - 261-1111

Email Us - empd@everestmetropolice.org

29. Expelled Overview

Comment #149534 by discipline on March 25, 2008 at 9:19 pm

Dr. Benway: "The idiocy of this movie is an event in our little bubble. But the rest of the country will sympathize with Ben Stein."

Correct. The dismissive, derisive comments on this site and other science blogs are irrelevant. In the US, agnostics/atheists/secularists/scientists are a tiny band of underfunded eccentrics in comparison to the mind-boggling financial power of the Christian Right.

The ID movement has hit upon a brilliant PR/marketing scheme: freedom. Check out the Discovery Institute home page, with titles like these:

"ANTI-FREEDOM ACTIVISTS TRY TO CENSOR SCIENCE EDUCATION IN FLORIDA"

"ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND EVOLUTION"

This is an ingenious "re-branding" of creationism and is perfectly designed to hit Americans in their sweet spot. I predict that even moderate Christians will be swayed by the "freedom" argument.

This film is not only outrageously offensive (exploiting the Holocaust -- wow!) but it's also very, very dangerous. Mocking it in blogs is fun but we need serious, measured, detailed responses to the film in every media outlet possible. I don't think PZ calling them "fuckwits" will get us anywhere in the marketplace of ideas.

30. Writer Arthur C Clarke dies at 90

Comment #146540 by discipline on March 19, 2008 at 7:19 am

FYI...

Clarke to have secular funeral

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/03/19/obit.clarke.ap/index.html

"The famed science fiction writer, who once denigrated religion as "a necessary evil in the childhood of our particular species," left written instructions that his funeral be completely secular, according to his aides."

31. New Atheists Are Not Great

Comment #145118 by discipline on March 17, 2008 at 9:17 am

> Atheists may be selling books
> but they're not making converts.

The author apparently hasn't seen the Pew survey, which shows that atheists/agnostics/unaffiliated is the fastest growing segment of the US population:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/newsroom/non_religious_outnumber/

and

http://humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=281&article=0

32. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143786 by discipline on March 14, 2008 at 12:15 pm

Wow -- what a disappointment. I was actually a Hedges fan briefly, after reading his excellent book "American fascists: The Christian Right and the war on America." It's really a devastating portrayal of the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of the US.

It appears that the rise of atheist "consciousness" lately has taken him off-guard. He clearly was embarrassed at his drubbing by Sam Harris in the debate. He's really gone off the deep end. Very disappointing.

On the other hand, we secularists/atheists should be collaborating with Christian moderates like Hedges (and others, like Al Gore, Bill Moyers, etc) if we are ever to make any progress in a nation where 50% of the people are creationists. Dawkins et al's arguments are completely correct, of course, but their argumentative style can backfire in a country like the US.

Michael Nesbitt made this point in a recent interview:
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/matthew_c_nisbet_communicating_about_science_and_religion/

33. Full house captivated by atheist Dawkins' take on religion

Comment #142579 by discipline on March 12, 2008 at 7:36 pm

Comments #15, 16:

Indeed. Unfortunately, Richard chose to speak at the most secular/progressive cities in the US, Madison included.

Like his first tour, I wish Richard had chosen a smattering of cities in redneck states like Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, Idaho, etc etc. In those places, the majority has never heard or seen a real atheist/agnostic, except in caricature from the pulpit.

Watching cracks form in their arrogant world view is so very fun...

34. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139970 by discipline on March 6, 2008 at 9:13 pm

> ditching religion will be a generational change
> rather than a sudden one

Exactly. Here in the rural southern US, we are literally generations away from Dawkins-style pure scientific rationalism. The first step is a complete overhaul of public school science education and serious restrictions on Christian homeschooling.I'm not holding my breath.

For now, we need to encourage and support moderate/liberal Christianity as a first step toward a more secular society, contrary to what Richard and Sam Harris might think. It's likely a different situation in Europe, but in the US we have to think pragmatically -- after all, 50-60% of Americans are creationists. We have a long way to go.

35. America: slouching towards the Enlightenment

Comment #135641 by discipline on February 29, 2008 at 7:08 am

Skepticon (#28):

I totally agree. While the survey is great news, the US has a long way to go. Don't forget that other surveys show that 50-60% of Americans are creationists. And fundies are one vote away from dominating the Supreme Court.

After devoting centuries and untold billions of dollars to indoctrination, you think that the fundies are going to give up their grip on power without a fight?

Without a "Marshall Plan" for science education, taxation of religious institutions, and severe restrictions on Christian homeschooling, we'll continue our downward spiral.

Of course, I live in rural Virginia USA, the beating heart/open sore of the Bible Belt.

36. Cal scientist reflects on Darwin's genius

Comment #126486 by discipline on February 13, 2008 at 10:58 am

George Lennan;

You almost had me fooled there -- a nice example of Poe's Law.

Cheers, Tim

37. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117686 by discipline on January 29, 2008 at 11:29 am

Well, at least one atheist has reviewed the book and was surprised:

It is not your run-of-the-mill "flea" book looking to make a quick buck.... It's the real deal, it's substantive, meticulously researched, it brings up real problems, and it addresses these problems without falling into the trap that other fleas have fallen into in the past. That is to say, relying on theology or the Bible to make their counter-arguments.

38. Two Ex-Jehovah Witnesses to Tell Why They Became Atheists

Comment #110280 by discipline on January 10, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Wow -- I had no idea there were so many ex-JWs on this site. Truly inspirational stories. There may be hope after all...

39. The Evangelical Rebellion

Comment #103261 by discipline on December 24, 2007 at 7:38 pm

Frightening article from Chris Hedges, a "liberal" Christian who recently debated Sam Harris. His performance in that debate was disappointing, but Hedges nails the dangers of the American Christian Right in this article. For practical reasons, he is somebody that secularists/humanists need to have on their side.

Fortunately, I don't believe that Huckabee can win the general election, given the debaucle of King George W. Indeed, Huckabee's ability to fracture the Republican party and the heretofore united Christian political movement is a "godsend."

As a progressive, I'm seriously thinking of campaigning for his election. The more discord among Christian sects, Republicans, and their corporate masters, the better.

40. This Is Not a Test

Comment #99904 by discipline on December 17, 2007 at 7:44 pm

The best thing that could happen to the US political scene is for Huckabee to get the Republican nomination. In the present climate -- ie, the failure of the W/Dick/Karl team, not to mention the rise of the "New Atheism" -- I think the Democrats would surely win.

As a "secular progressive" (to borrow Bill O'Reilly's hilarious term), I'm thinking of campaigning for Huckabee.

41. Sherri Shepherd needs to go away now

Comment #94858 by discipline on December 6, 2007 at 9:03 pm

What controls are in place for this home schooling - is it it simply a matter of "graduating"?

42. Sherri Shepherd needs to go away now

Comment #94750 by discipline on December 6, 2007 at 12:44 pm

maybe she was homeschooled. According to Wikipedia around 2 million kids are home schooled in America, mostly for religious purposes. Scary.

43. 'Secular Believers'

Comment #88461 by discipline on November 16, 2007 at 7:56 pm

Excellent. Part I mentions Baron D'Holbach, the 18th century French atheist. A quick search turned up this superb quote:

"If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve their own interests."

And

"If ignorance of Nature gave birth to gods, then knowledge of Nature is calculated to destroy them."

This was written in 1770! It proves, once again, that the "argument" over the existence of god has long been resolved in our favor. What remains is a socio-political-educational battle.

44. 'Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer

Comment #88287 by discipline on November 15, 2007 at 6:48 pm

> GERU: "Is this a time warp to the 50's, or do
> these people really represent a considerable
> part of modern American people?"

Over 50% of Americans would agree with Stein. That's 150 million people. Wealthy people. With lots of guns.

Sure, it's fun to mock rubbish like this, but if we dismiss it, we lose. Where is the pro-evolution film with a similar budget and production values? As usual, the creationists and right-wing evangelicals have the finances and motivation to produce this kind of slick propaganda.

This film will be popular and influential in a large segment of the U.S. population, no matter what us intellectuals, scientists, and Europeans think. Unless we speak out more boldly...

45. Holy communion

Comment #87115 by discipline on November 11, 2007 at 8:27 am

While I agree with Sam Harris and Richard that religious moderation fosters an acceptance of "faith" and paves the way for extremism, we have to think practically.

Here in the US, we are literally GENERATIONS from the kind of pure scientific rationality espoused by Richard. The situation is clearly different in Europe, but in the US, scientific education is so poor and politics are so corrupted by the religous right (and not just at the federal level), that we need to move the culture toward religious moderation as a first step.

Without coalitions between atheists and religious moderates/liberals, our efforts are just intellectual masturbation (fun, but about as useful). After all, the "God question" was essentially answered centuries ago during the Enlightenment; what remains is a political/cultural battle.

Atheists by themselves, through the sheer force of our arguments, will NOT win any time soon (in the US at least). Ultimate victory is one thing, incremental progress is another.

46. The New Atheists on Organized Freethought

Comment #82362 by discipline on October 26, 2007 at 6:39 am

> The highlight for me was pastor deacon Fred
> they should have him on all the time.

I agree -- that was priceless satire. Hilarious.

And I think posters here are being way too harsh about the Rational Responders. They did fine during this interview, and appeal to a critical demographic (read "young Americans"). Here in the U.S., we need all types of religion critics -- intellectuals, scientists, lawyers, punks, comedians, etc -- if we are ever to make headway in a nation where 60% of people are creationists.

47. Eddie Tabash at AAI 07

Comment #80975 by discipline on October 23, 2007 at 7:10 pm

We are so fortunate to have somebody so articulate and knowledgeable on "our" side. Great stuff.

48. Debate between Michael Shermer and Dinesh D'Souza

Comment #80432 by discipline on October 21, 2007 at 7:59 pm

D'Souza's latest book is hilarious. Check it out at:

What's so great about Christianity
http://www.dineshdsouza.com/books/christianity-jacket.html

In it "D'Souza reveals:

* Why atheism is a demonstrably dangerous creed�and a cowardly one

* Why Christianity explains the universe, and our origins, better than atheism does

* Why Christianity and science are not irreconcilable, but science and atheism might be

...and so on.

However, it would be a serious mistake to dismiss him with a snide remark, as is so often done on this site. In the U.S., people like him are very influential and need to be attacked effectively and repeatedly. Hopefully, Shermer's valiant attempt will be followed by many others.

> He dated Anne Coulter for awhile.

Now I'm nauseous. Seriously.

49. Teachers 'fear evolution lessons'

Comment #76429 by discipline on October 5, 2007 at 8:16 pm

kaiserkriss: "So now children are educated by the lowest common denominator principle??"

You really should visit the US some day, where LCD is a national value, along with Jesus and the almighty dollar. (I'm American, BTW.)

Prof Reiss estimates that one in 10 people in the UK now believes in literal interpretations of religious creation stories

50. Critical Analysis of Case for a Creator

Comment #72135 by discipline on September 20, 2007 at 12:11 pm

A bit repetetive at first but picks up steam later on and presents some sound refutations of this slick, frightening movie from the notorious Discovery Institute.

Why is it that many Christian apologists claim to once have been atheists? (Francis Collins also comes to mind.) Might it be that it is an effective but dishonest rhetorical trick?

I'm reminded of the sorry case of Bjorn Lomborg, the Norwegian professor of statistics, who claimed to once be an environmentalist, but then "saw the light" -- through impartial inquiry, of course -- and published a error-filled polemic against environmentalism.

Perhaps I should start trying this technique as well: "I was once a young earth creationist, but now I believe..."