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Comments by Luthien


1. Group finds Starbucks logo too hot to handle

Comment #180915 by Luthien on May 16, 2008 at 4:57 am

Ooh. This is fun. What other innocuous imagery can I find to be offended by? If only there were some group insensitive enough to use an execution/torture device as their logo.


ROFL, nice one!

2. The detail in the Devil

Comment #176149 by Luthien on May 6, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Hey, I used to be an expert in demonology, but then I respeced to an SM/Ruin build and never looked back. I only use my imp for the health buff now, though my felhunter is still useful for soloing (but only really on casters).


/target Dr. William Bradshaw
/cast curse of doom
/cackle

Anyone else here have a warlock? (or even know what I'm talking about?)

3. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #168161 by Luthien on April 24, 2008 at 4:18 pm

50. Comment #167641 by old-toy-boy on April 24, 2008 at 8:28 am
Let me see if I (a Brit), have this right. In the U.S, you cannot preach/promote religion in state schools, even teaching 'about' world religions (plural) is discouraged because it may be mistaken for preaching religion, yes? onsequently hhanding out free religious books in schools is not allowed... So handing out non-religious books should be OK... (you can probably guess where this is leading...) you can not get much more non-religious than books like 'The God delision", Or 'The Blind Watchmaker'.

(Have I just evolved an argument to exploit a niche?)


No, they might still be able to argue against it because it explicitly mentions religion. I have a better idea...


...a nice book explaining the scientific concept of natural selection perhaps? One for every student ;)

4. Flea of the week

Comment #164097 by Luthien on April 19, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Aquaria said:

Oh man... No wonder everyone thought I was weird as a kid. I always wanted books! The first time I ever went to a bookstore (a rare treat in hickistan) was the only time I felt anything close to a religious experience as a child.


I always got books, books, books as a child. The first science book I ever got was a pop up book called "The Universe" which I bought in Woolworths reduced to £2.50, when I was only 7 (I still have it on my bookshelf). Everyone thought I was weird too, cause how many 7 year olds do you hear wondering aloud whether the universe will end in the "Big Crunch", or continue expanding until it dissipates into subatomic particles and radiation.

If anyone wants to do this for another child, buy them this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Story-Everything-Neal-Layton/dp/0340881712/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208638973&sr=1-7

I bought it for my friend's kid, and bought one for the Christmas charity toy box in work. It really gives a great overview of the Big Bang theory and Evolution.

5. Yoko Ono, Filmmakers Caught in 'Expelled' Flap

Comment #162583 by Luthien on April 17, 2008 at 5:09 am

Decius, I absolutely LOVE your avatar! Where did you find it??? <3 <3 <3

6. Did pre-big bang universe leave its mark on the sky?

Comment #158973 by Luthien on April 11, 2008 at 9:10 am

25. Comment #158882 by sidfaiwu on April 11, 2008 at 6:29 am
JanChan:

Wait, if big bangs are hereditary, what's stopping natural selection to act upon them?



Mostly the fact that universes don't have environments. There is nothing 'outside' the universe that can cull the 'weaker' universes.


Perhaps the universes that have certain properties will just expand forever, and dissapate, with no "Big Crunch" style rebirth (or whatever other mechanism you can postulate). If a "Big Crunch" style event birthed more universes (all with similar, but not quite the same properties from the "imprint" of the last one), then we have our natural selection. After all, natural selection is simply surviving to have more offspring.

7. The simple falsehood at the heart of Expelled

Comment #158233 by Luthien on April 10, 2008 at 8:41 am

Hehe, that is very well put. I shall have to remember that point next time I hear that silly nonsense from a creationist ;-)

8. Expelled producers accused of copyright infringement

Comment #158229 by Luthien on April 10, 2008 at 8:36 am

rushfan2112:

Hopefully Yoko Ono might do something with the use of "Imagine" in the film...I doubt very seriously that she gave permission for that.


They WHAT? In what context did they use it?

9. Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Comment #152478 by Luthien on March 31, 2008 at 6:04 am

FYI, Pat Condell's latest offering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4

10. Happy Birthday, Richard Dawkins!

Comment #149918 by Luthien on March 26, 2008 at 10:30 am

*sings*
Happy birthday to you,
You were born in a zoo,
With the monkies...


Only kidding! :-P

Hope you have a great birthday (and many more).

11. Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help

Comment #149832 by Luthien on March 26, 2008 at 9:31 am

11. Comment #149743 by Rover on March 26, 2008 at 7:41 am
...Maybe if they get cancer, they can pray for a miracle and just forget about the chemo?


Someone in my extended family actually did this to himself, because his prayer group convinced him that they could save him with prayer. Obviously he died (a very young man), and drove his parents and siblings to understandable distraction. My parents had attended the prayer group a few years before this occurred (on his invitation), and I remember they came home with all sorts of nutty ideas about praying out Satan etc. before they finally wised up and left.

...and this wasn't in the bible belt of America, this was in Northern Ireland!!!

12. Wicked untruths from the Church

Comment #149681 by Luthien on March 26, 2008 at 5:36 am

Atheism may lead to a realisation of the danger of religious dogma which includes ignorance, bigotry and intolerance.


Yes, well anything where the element of human compassion is removed can cause this to happen, anything that flicks that switch in our heads and floods us with the familiar feeling of self righteousness can lead to "rules" being more important than people. I'm not sure what the solution to that is, I guess just to be aware of it and try your best to understand without the act of "judging" (I mean where you caricature someone's personality in a negative way based on one thing).

13. Wicked untruths from the Church

Comment #149653 by Luthien on March 26, 2008 at 3:53 am

Thoughtsoncommontoad said:

Is anyone else uneasy about number 2 "Creating a child with the correct tissue match to save a sick brother or sister." or is it just me?


Since the "tissue match" in question is for cord blood / cells, I do not see a problem with this...

...However, I do think it is necessary to look at whether the child created will be wanted for itself. People who love their existing child enough to go to such lengths (IVF is a pretty tough process for the woman) are bound to be the kind of people that will be good parents to the child created. This consideration seems to be covered by the legislation requiring that the welfare of the unborn child be taken into account.

Personally I don't think it would harm me as a person to know I was created to save some else's life in this manner. I know it might feel like the thin end of the wedge for creating humans for "tissue farming", but it isn't.

14. First 'Rule' Of Evolution Suggests That Life Is Destined To Become More Complex

Comment #146525 by Luthien on March 19, 2008 at 7:00 am

My definition of Evolution by natural selection:

Hey, whatever works for you!

15. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146522 by Luthien on March 19, 2008 at 6:58 am

We could all start a "hugs" mission, and go stand outside their church (a la the "free hugs" thing). :-P

The banner could say:

"Feeling a little queer? Have a free hug"

16. God's cure for gays lost in sin

Comment #146507 by Luthien on March 19, 2008 at 6:39 am

In the house, residents were prevented from having any form of physical contact - no comforting hugs, no shoulder to cry on...



Sick!

17. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143622 by Luthien on March 14, 2008 at 8:56 am

...And I think part of the problem is people who create a morality based on their own experience, which is what of course the New Atheists and the Christian fundamentalists have done.


So exactly how else does one create their own "Morality"? Either you buy it wholesale from some external source that claims to be divine, or you work it out from first principles and personal experience (and yes, I know some of the basics are instinctual in the same way that language syntax is instinctual, but it is experience that forms it into something we can use to make decisions).

If I were interviewing him I would not have missed out asking him where HE thought his morality came from if not from personal experience.

18. Crossing the Divide

Comment #140420 by Luthien on March 7, 2008 at 9:27 am

Teratornis, Excellent analogy with the whole car "addiction" thing. I'm a pedal power person myself, and the social pressure to learn to drive and get a car is ENORMOUS. At christmas my parents bought me a software package for learning to drive (not the first time I have received driving manuals / driving lessons etc. as a present), but the whole thing just irritates me. There are very few things that I have not been able to do without the financial black hole that is a car. I get to work much faster than if I had a car, I don't have to pay silly money for parking, I can get the shopping in my detatchable bike basket, and if I really need to I can just phone a taxi / pay for home delivery. At christmas I cycled out to a garden centre to buy my tree (I always buy a real one), and the car park was full to the teeth with people in SUVs / People carriers who all "needed" them to collect their 7ft trees. I picked mine out, got the netting put over it, balanced it on the bike, and had no trouble at all wheeling it home (though I do have a cruiser style bicycle, so it has a longer frame / bigger seat etc. than most). Needless to say the whole carpark was looking at me as if I was mad, rather than thinking "I wish I'd thought of that".

You people should all have a go at surviving with just a bicycle to get around, you might be plesantly surprised ;-)

19. Why do we believe in God? 2m study prays for answer

Comment #129427 by Luthien on February 19, 2008 at 5:56 am

It isn't "redundant". I for one am interested in the answers. I would like to know why I was able to see through my religious upbringing in spite of devout parents, whereas it took my parents until their mid 50s to come to the same conclusions.

20. A match made on RichardDawkins.net?

Comment #128595 by Luthien on February 17, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Soooo, a church wedding then? :-P

My warmest and most sincere congratulations guys, and best of luck for the future!!!!!

21. Virus immunity 'created in lab'

Comment #128092 by Luthien on February 16, 2008 at 5:50 am

Yeh, like malcontents creating biovirus attacks and us paying for antivirus protection - don't get me wrong, I haven't suddenly gone all Luddite...


Ooh, someone's been reading too much "V for Vendetta"... :-P

22. Council pays psychic for exorcism

Comment #126520 by Luthien on February 13, 2008 at 12:08 pm

I have paid to have my fortune told by a so called psychic (it was one of those girls night in things organised by a friend). Yes, I know, totally against my ideals BUT here was my choice:

a) Not to go and miss all the other fun of the evening.
b) Go along, get my own reading, point out how the "psychic" was listening in to our conversations between readings, bring a pack of tarrot cards (Yes I own one :P) and do my own readings to show how it is done.

Mind you, it still stuck in my throat to have to give the old bat money, but I put on my best gullible face and got a fantastically entertaining reading based on the conversation I just had 5 minutes previously about my backpacking travels (her first words were also "I sense you are quite skeptical", so perhaps she really IS psychic :P).

23. Good people doing evil things

Comment #125800 by Luthien on February 12, 2008 at 4:42 am

It's good to see people taking up these ideas and applying them to their own situations / problems. Once the idea is there it's half the battle :-)

24. The battle of the butterflies and the ants

Comment #108377 by Luthien on January 6, 2008 at 3:25 pm

robotaholic on January 5, 2008 at 9:03 pm
you know the well made banana debunks evolution everytime... =))

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9zwbhAXe5yk

"the atheist's nightmare" lmao- I think the word "nutter" was coined just because of these kinds of people...



No, they are not "nutters"...


... they are completely bananas ;-)

25. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102393 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 3:18 pm

LOL@Gmork

it's normally followed by:

for (int i; i < worldPopulation; i++)
{
if (currentAthiest != convert)
{
output(currentAthiest.threaten(damnation));
}
else
{
output(currentDeity.praise());
}
}

26. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102371 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:52 pm

Update
The BBC has made a correction in the last paragraph from "militant atheists" to outspoken atheists.

Their remarks follow the rise of outspoken atheists such as Oxford University scientist Richard Dawkins, whose book The God Delusion, has been a bestseller.

Woohoo, the system works! :-P

27. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102370 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:41 pm

I submitted an official complaint to the BBC about the following:

Their remarks follow the rise of militant atheists such as Oxford University scientist Richard Dawkins, whose book The God Delusion, has been a bestseller.


I complained that the word "militant" is far too emotive to be "fair and impartial" according to the BBC's standards, and worse still it made it seem like they were actually endorsing the Bishop's views. I suggested that it be amended to "outspoken".

They require all their reporters to refer to the men in Iraq who murder men, women, and children as "insurgents" (I saw on their complaints site that someone had complained about the word "insurgent", and they had cited their impartiality as the reason), and yet they are calling Richard Dawkins a "militant"???

I suggest that we all do the same, and make sure you select the request feedback radio button on their official complaint form.

28. Bible bashing dying out in Kansas

Comment #102364 by Luthien on December 22, 2007 at 1:28 pm

Another britishism to watch out for is 'godbothering'.


That must mean my hobby of picking on "street preachers" / leafleters is called "godbothererbothering" :-P

Seriously though, there is a tipping point for these things that passes unnoticed, kind of like the Berlin Wall thing, and next thing you know the world is so much better for people. All we have to do is keep making people think!

29. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100860 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:16 pm

38. Comment #100847 by PrimeNumbers on December 19, 2007 at 12:49 pm
I don't see it as a good thing to be an Atheist and raise your children Catholic. I mean, if you don't have the courage of your convictions.....


Meh, catholic indoctrination doesn't work properly unless accompanied by violence. Most people my parent's age were beaten for inability to say a prayer correctly, or some other made up offense. Education minus violence = most people seeing through it. The only problem is the lack of proper sex ed, but that didn't do me any harm in spite of my parents unwillingness to talk about it. (I picked up most of my attitudes on sex from watching nature documentaries, i.e. awww, look at the little bonobos.)

Even so, I won't be sending a child of mine to a catholic school, but then I'm not in a position where a. the only good school in the area is Catholic, or b. I have a partner that would demand it.

30. Clegg 'does not believe in God'

Comment #100854 by Luthien on December 19, 2007 at 1:01 pm

25. Comment #100808 by epeeist on December 19, 2007 at 11:21 am

And since I am in story telling mode, I may as well finish it off. One of the priests visited us to find out why my brother hadn't been going to church. Seeing just the two children and a dog he told my mother she should get rid of the dog and consider having more children. Both she and the dog took exception to this and chased the priest down the garden path. Closing the gate behind him the priest turned and told me my mother that she would burn in hell. To which she responded that "she wouldn't be able to get near the fires for you buggers stoking it".


You just made my week with that story!

I lived briefly in a house in West Belfast, and within a very short space of time a bloke wearing a full Franciscan monk's outfit knocked at my door. Needless to say I left the crazy person knocking away, but my (now ex) partner answered the door eventually and it turned out to be the local catholic priest (he wanted to "remind" us of the mass times).

31. What Your Brain Looks Like on Faith

Comment #100152 by Luthien on December 18, 2007 at 10:05 am

I always laughed because it reminds me of 'World of Warcraft' zombies only worse-much worse


Only I can't put my curses on them, or cast seed of corruption and run! :-P

32. Believe it or not

Comment #97536 by Luthien on December 12, 2007 at 9:29 am

"Freethinker"... I like that one best. You can be an Atheist and still follow a political or economic doctrine / dogma, but the term "Freethinker" specifically denotes the non-adherence to dogma of all kinds. Plus, it has positive connotations; everyone loves freedom, and who would claim not to "think" about things.

It has also been around for a while, and is associated with the founding fathers of America.

33. Functional Neuroimaging of Belief, Disbelief, and Uncertainty

Comment #97437 by Luthien on December 12, 2007 at 4:53 am

17. Comment #97245 by BAEOZ on December 11, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Thanks Don_Quix. I've used heaps of emoticons. But that is not event vaguely a heart. Thanks anyway. :)


Actually, it's extremely common in online gaming such a World of Warcraft, and it doesn't look like a heart because it's extremely difficult to put in all the arteries and ventricles using only ASCII characters :-P

34. Bah, Hanukkah

Comment #94319 by Luthien on December 5, 2007 at 9:31 am

"Everybody knows" that sentences beginning with the words "Everybody knows" have a tendency to be rather suspect.


Brilliant line, Northern Bright! I have it up as my Messenger "quote of the day" now :)

35. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #92501 by Luthien on November 30, 2007 at 4:17 pm

Sexual jealousy is something that needs to be understood, as does (adulterous) promiscuity. The point is, to my mind, to understand why you feel the way you do, why the other person feels / acts the way they do, and come to some sort of rational agreement on the matter.

Often sexual jealousy can occur without any rational reason or "cheating" taking place, or "cheating" occurs because the other party withdraws and isolates their partner to the point that it would be cruel to refuse them the comfort of another human being.

Another thing that frys my head, is the way that people blame the "third party" for "stealing" their partner. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to remind an acquaintance that you cannot "steal" a person, because people are not property.

Understanding your jealousy is the best way to find a sane and peaceful resolution to any such situation.

36. Banishing the Green-Eyed Monster

Comment #92482 by Luthien on November 30, 2007 at 3:41 pm

He screwed around ON THE JOB and IN THE OFFICE.

He should have been fired no question.


Hmmm... So a woman who keeps her dress in a freezer isn't trying to entrap the person who deposited their DNA there?

I once shook hands with Clinton (actually, with both of them :P), I'm so glad I washed them before eating ;-)

37. Pupil defends teacher in Muhammad teddy furore

Comment #91831 by Luthien on November 29, 2007 at 12:13 pm

18. Comment #91565 by lulando on November 28, 2007 at 2:53 pm
avatarIncidents like these proof how much a personality like the reformer Martin Luther is needed...


Is this the same Martin Luther that said "Reason is the Devil's harlot"?

38. A New Flea in Town!

Comment #91827 by Luthien on November 29, 2007 at 11:58 am

4. Comment #91810 by DarwinsPitbull on November 29, 2007 at 11:12 am
Richard is going to have to start walking around with a flea collar.


It would have to be a cat collar, as it certainly couldn't be a dog collar (teeheehee).

39. Rock of Ages, Ages of Rock

Comment #90677 by luthien on November 26, 2007 at 5:33 am

"Instead, we think: 'Here's what the Bible says. Now let's go to the rocks and see if we find the evidence for it.' "


The very definition of confirmation bias

*sigh*

40. Onward Christian teachers?

Comment #87777 by Luthien on November 13, 2007 at 4:47 am

25. Comment #87709 by flying goose on November 12, 2007 at 11:29 pm
...I think that snobbery can also be incalcated in the young at a very early age. Ban all private education now. It gives the rich the right to buy 'better' education where their children are taught to look down on everybody else.( I am sort of joking.)


Joking or not, I think you are right. The only way to ensure that all "public services" are maintained to the highest standard is to make sure that those responsible for maintaining them actually have to use them. The 2 most important ones being Health and Education.

41. Lessons in hate found at leading mosques

Comment #83747 by Luthien on October 31, 2007 at 6:06 am

29. Comment #83740 by stevencarrwork on October 31, 2007 at 5:27 am
I detect double-standards here.

Do you hear Muslims complaining about the books openly on sale in Britain which claim that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl, or that Muhammad ordered the assassination of opponents?

Do you see the Times trying to track down the publishers of these books?


No, no, no, you have got it all wrong! The books that claim that Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl are on sale in the muslim bookstores.

(Go look if you don't believe me.)

42. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73163 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 10:18 am

89. Comment #73101 by Roger Stanyard on September 24, 2007 at 6:02 am
Luthien,

I'll be posting other stuff on our forum in a minute - could I have permission to post your comment?

Roger Stanyard, British Centre for Science Education.


Yes, of course :-)

43. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73098 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 5:47 am

79. Comment #73055 by SharrieG on September 24, 2007 at 2:14 am

As a Christian in Northern Ireland, I'm not sure things are quite as bad as this. The Free Presbyterian Church has little support from most Christians on the ground. I wouldn't say that Creationism is a Calvinistic product, nor that the Presbyterian church promotes creationism - I grew up in a Presbyterian Church, and evolution was entirely accepted.


SharrieG, it matters not how many churches do or don't support literal creationist positions. The issue we should be worried about is the fact that these idiots in the DUP have been voted in (as the largest political party) on the mandate of unionism, and are using their political power to push this junk into our education system. (I say OUR, because I live half way between Belfast and Lisburn.) During the last election I gave quite an earfull to the DUP canvaser that came to my door, and he denied to my face that the DUP were pushing any sort of religious agenda.

83. Comment #73069 by Roger Stanyard on September 24, 2007 at 3:25 am
SharrieC - A request.

Would you mind me posting your reply about creationism in Northern Ireland on the forum of the the British Centre for Science Education?

One of the evangelicals there is deeply concerned about the spread of creationism in the province and I think your reply would be much appreciated. he lives in NI, btw.

Roger Stanyard, British Centre for Science Education


Roger, before you start assuring people that everything is quite OK over here, please bear in mind my above point.

44. Row Brews Over DUP Call for Schools to Teach Creationism

Comment #73097 by Luthien on September 24, 2007 at 5:32 am


Devolved said:

Comment #72597 by liberalartist

The irony in denying evolution is that most people don't realize they are dependent on that knowledge daily for the medicines that have been developed, vaccines, cures, etc.



So if that is true provide some proof. Louis Pasteur was both a Christian and an opponent of evolution yet his scientific work has been of immense benefit to mankind and many lives have been saved. What basis do you have for claiming that vaccines and cures are in any way dependent on a belief in evolution.


Oh please, are you really suggesting that the study of bacteria, viruses, and vaccines has not moved on since the work done by Louis Pasteur??? You really should start reading stuff that isn't on the "approved" reading list provided by Liberty "university".

45. Scientists' Good News: Earth May Survive Sun's Demise in 5 Billion Years

Comment #70187 by Luthien on September 14, 2007 at 9:31 am

What, is it national cynic day today, or did they cancel "dress down friday"??? Come on ppl!

Some people have to think far ahead, like Kepler's story about traveling to the moon and standing on the surface. It is these things that keep the human race looking forward. I enjoyed this article for the same reasons I loved all the various star trek series; it frees the mind from the chains of the present.

46. Censoring Sir David

Comment #69897 by Luthien on September 13, 2007 at 5:47 am

Reminds me of a family guy sketch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOYfG0QGG0

47. Censoring Sir David

Comment #69867 by Luthien on September 13, 2007 at 3:17 am

hungarianelephant, I remember in primary school being laughed at by the teacher (and the whole class) when I explained that, since colour is reflected light, black was technically not really a colour at all. Her reply was something along the lines of "If black isn't a colour, how can you have black paint?". The same teacher listed Astrology on my report card as one of my interests (it was Astronomy of course!!!).

With teachers like that it makes you wonder how anyone ever got an education!

48. Christopher Hitchens and Bill Donohue on Mother Teresa

Comment #66717 by Luthien on August 31, 2007 at 5:38 am

This idiot thinks he's Irish (No, I'm irish *waves pasport in front of loudmouth's ample visage* I doubt we would let you have one!), and doesn't know that Hitchens is an American now...

/sigh

Shuggy, PWNED is pronounced powned (po as in pony, owned), or sometimes just "owned". It comes from a common spelling mistake caused by the proximity of "P" to "O" when typing owned.

49. Another view

Comment #66475 by Luthien on August 30, 2007 at 4:53 am

79. Comment #66464 by wendelin on August 30, 2007 at 3:49 am
Baeoz, and others who suggest acupuncture acted as a placebo for my dad and me:

Exactly how does a placebo work when the ailment in question is a SLIPPED DISK? I have mainstream science's medical records to prove it, you know. A slipped disc means horrendous back aches, an inability to straighten up completely on bad days, and my dad even had trauma to muscle fibres in the area, which doctors said was incurable. The AFTER picture: muscle-fibre trauma remained, but the disc was back in place.


If it slipped out, perhaps it just slipped in again :-P

Seriously though, I fail to see the link between sticking pins in your skin and moving the bones or cartilage in your spine. If you and your father both showed this kind of recovery, perhaps you have a genetic condition that either predisposes your body to better regeneration, or to a condition that simply shows similar symptoms to a slipped disk? There could also be an environmental factor shared by your family that you overlooked?

50. Another view

Comment #66470 by Luthien on August 30, 2007 at 4:22 am

61. Comment #66265 by Bonzai on August 29, 2007 at 2:12 pm

Depending on what you consider "proper" evidence and "alternative therapies". Chinese medicine seems to work a lot better for some people at least for many non life threatening conditions.


How do you know that those people with "non life threatening conditions" would not have got better anyway? People who don't die of minor ailments generally do get better (unless it's something like a genetic / developmental abnormality). This is why experiments are conducted with a control to see what happens when you do nothing.

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