Comments by notsobad

Comment #103955 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 11:37 am

However, unlike that analogy, mine did not claim that the complexity of the universe indicates a rational and personal creator, as you seem to think it did, judging by your response (particularly Steve).

So if it doesn't claim it, how did you make the leap to this and immediately contradict yourself?

Notsobad, that's a good question. For starters, I'd say the fact that out of the infinite array of possibilities you have been created is an indication that he has some sort of personal concern you. He could have chosen not to create you; but you do exist and thus he must have selected you out of all the possibilities.

But why??? Why me???

BTW, don't take yourself so seriously. You were born because the sperm representing you won the race (among 100,000,000 - 500,000,000 other sperm cells in a single ejaculation and there may have been unsuccessful ones) and the fertilized egg succeeded. It's an amazing thing, but that doesn't imply any divine interference. Do you know about evolution through natural selection?

And if you believe that god chooses who gets born and who doesn't, you should instead ask why he/she/it allows so many fuck-ups to be born.

452. Happy Newton Day!

Comment #103925 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 10:47 am

Mark – I thought that was an excellent and clear post, thank you. I hope it will help me further explain the elements of the argument that I think you (and many others) don't see yet.

I could have been clearer. What you call "proposition 2" is a trait OF THE UNIVERSE that we have never failed to observe. Because of the nature of material being, its opposite has never, and will not ever, be found to be true. The universe could not have existed to create itself before it existed—I don't care how fast, or small the "quantum fluctuations" are operating, in so far as they already exist to create they cannot be created. Steve's contention that we should just "accept that reality does not depend on what we consider rational" (that is a direct quote from post 240) absolutely floors me—especially coming from one who insults without qualification all religious persons for "acting irrational" by having faith.

So yes, you are right in observing that the argument implies that God is capable of creating something out of nothing. But you must also see that the argument implies that he is not the same sort of "being" as the universe, and therefore what we know to be true of the universe (proposition 2) may not necessarily be true of him.

Suppose you are in a "universe" full of people who can only make watches, and that you suddenly discover a T.V. Logically you conclude that there must exist some sort of "T.V. maker." We are in a universe where nothing comes from nothing and we have stumbled upon something—the universe itself. There must be that "universe maker" – a being capable of making something out of nothing.

I hope this clears up your objections "(a)" and "(b)". To try to use your words, "Proposition 2" is an absolute statement ABOUT THE UNIVERSE, not an absolute statement.

We have not seen evidence that ALL beings must have a creator. I did not mean to imply that. What we have observed is that all beings WE HAVE SEEN have a creator (for all we have seen has been in the universe). But what we also know is that, for anything to be, there must be some being—a being whom we have not seen—who does not have a creator. Otherwise we would fall into an infinite regress of causality, which, as you point out, is also irrational.

Take care,

BJohn

Even if there was some kind of creator, how do you or anybody else know he/she/it cares about people or anything else and how it cares? In other words, how does that imply a need for religions?

453. New journal to target education in evolution

Comment #103904 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 9:44 am

Having a church eclipse the state in importance is in reference to personal life. He seeks a reduction in the role of government in everyday lives.

Federal government only. He would let state governments pass laws that'd limit basic rights and freedom (religion in public schools, abortion ban,...).
And the constitution is not perfect. Remember, slavery was legal when it was written and many founding fathers were slave owners.

454. Happy Newton Day!

Comment #103884 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 7:36 am

Can a universe summon she-bears to maul kids calling you names? No, therefore god.

455. Happy Newton Day!

Comment #103876 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 7:17 am

Theist: Everything must have a creator, and something cannot come from nothing, therefore god.

Sceptic: OK, so following YOUR logic, who/what created god and where did he/she/it come from?

Theist: Always existed, lalala...

456. The Pagan Christ

Comment #103851 by notsobad on December 27, 2007 at 5:30 am

krisking wrote:
I've emailed Bishops about their religion, and received some decidedly wishy washy answers.

This reminds me of the episode 'The Bishop's Gambit' of Yes, Prime Minister.

Jim Hacker: Is there anyone in the church who doesn't believe in God?
Sir Humphrey: Yes, most of the Bishops.
--
Sir Humphrey: The Church is looking for a candidate to maintain the balance.
Master of Baillie College: What balance?
Sir Humphrey: Between those that believe in God and those that don't.

457. New journal to target education in evolution

Comment #103772 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 6:34 pm

And the latest Republican presidential candidate to REJECT EVOLUTION is creationist RON PAUL.

The funny part is he majored in biology!

458. The Pagan Christ

Comment #103766 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 6:21 pm

immorally high incomes

You sound like the religious.
Oh, and communism and planned economy already failed everywhere.

Global Warming man-made; where is the proof?

Read and follow sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_of_recent_climate_change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/44456/story.htm

459. Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Comment #103765 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 6:19 pm

How does this feeling sorry for a name in the newspaper work?
(I am genuinely interested.)

460. Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Comment #103753 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 5:19 pm

If you really have the need to feel sorry for someone, how about the thousands that die everyday needlessly?

461. The Four Horsemen: on Christmas

Comment #103645 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 11:52 am

I don't doubt that it might occur in other species

Female penguins without offspring will adopt the young without mother and raise them as their own.
Those are not homosexuals, but it shows that an individual animal has no problem caring for some else's offspring, and it's beneficial for the colony.

462. The Pagan Christ

Comment #103591 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 8:46 am

Atheism does not offer solutions because it's not a belief system or philosophy.
However, unlike religion, it lets you think and decide for yourself.

463. The Four Horsemen: on Christmas

Comment #103549 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 7:28 am

Paula Kirby wrote:

But is it really so unthinkable that the mechanics of evolution by natural selection would have left a legacy of revulsion about homosexuality - after all, gay relationships are guaranteed to be offspring-free and therefore not in the interests of one's own or the society's survival.

Do these people also fight against infertile men and find them disgusting?
No, I didn't think they did.
What about the irony of priests living in celibate who oppose homosexuals? If their beliefs are somewhat based on evolution, shouldn't they fight against celibacy too and hate themselves?

464. The Four Horsemen: on Christmas

Comment #103515 by notsobad on December 26, 2007 at 3:34 am

notsobad - just to give you an example... my children being with me, would be one instance where I am forced to pay attention to what's going on around me. I find it rather annoying to have gays bragging about being gay in front of my innocent kids (9 years and 5 years old).

Do you consider them kissing 'bragging about being gay?' Are heterosexuals kissing also bragging about being heterosexuals or are they just expressing their love or lust?
Why can't your kids see it?

But is it really so unthinkable that the mechanics of evolution by natural selection would have left a legacy of revulsion about homosexuality - after all, gay relationships are guaranteed to be offspring-free and therefore not in the interests of one's own or the society's survival.

Evolution is not about 'society's survival.'

465. The Four Horsemen: on Christmas

Comment #103458 by notsobad on December 25, 2007 at 5:46 pm

You consider kissing an 'act'? And who forces you to look at them kissing anyway?

And the 'intentional injection of homosexuality (gay parades)' is caused by the other extreme - irrational opposition to homosexuality. If people didn't say they find homosexuality disgusting and immoral like it's self-evident and didn't try to limit homosexuals' freedom and rights, there would be no gay parades.

466. The Four Horsemen: on Christmas

Comment #103451 by notsobad on December 25, 2007 at 5:28 pm

why my body feels disgusted when I am forced to see gay men in the act.

Someone forces you to do that? Or forced Ayn Rand?

Every time someone says that they find homosexuality disgusting I want to ask: Are you imagining homosexuals having sex when you hear that word or what's the deal here?

467. The Evangelical Rebellion

Comment #103375 by notsobad on December 25, 2007 at 10:14 am

I'm in England but I still have a vote, which will proudly go for Ron Paul. As a lover of the Constitution and Individualism (while at the same time opposing government intervention in private lives), he's the only one that I can truly support.

This is a myth. Ron Paul lets religion affect his professional decisions. He says he wouldn't let federal government limit people's freedom but he has no problem with states doing that. And all those things are Christianity-related, e.g. abortion and religion in public schools.
This is like the free will cop-out.

468. Man and God

Comment #103354 by notsobad on December 25, 2007 at 9:03 am

spiritual dimension goes far beyond mere awe at the sublime"

This is just more of the sweet metaphysical bullshit. If anything, religion turns people into shallow simpletons.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1761/036ax7.png

Among Christians, there is no doubt that confusion and disillusion are causing considerable anguish.

...

This, surely, is where the new militant atheism is wrong. It is totalitarian in its prescription for human happiness.

The author and many others use the term 'militant atheist' but I have yet to see a single example of this militancy.
Also, calling atheism ideology or a 'prescription for human happiness' is either lying or severe lack of knowledge.
And how is it totalitarian?

469. 2 fleas for the Christmas week

Comment #103327 by notsobad on December 25, 2007 at 5:37 am

Why won't God heal amputees?
By Malcolm McLean

Is this a pseudonym for someone from the Pythons or is this guy for real?
If so, his books can have some serious, albeit unintended, comedic value.

470. Priest who committed suicide for rebirth cremated

Comment #103246 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 4:22 pm

For his parents? Aren't they responsible for him being a religious tool in the first place?

471. Taking children for a ride

Comment #103191 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 12:47 pm

Goodwithwood,
idiots are everywhere and aplenty. This particular kind of idiocy spreads from the US though.

472. Atheists' sign sparks controversy

Comment #103189 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 12:39 pm

Houser and her beliefs are separable. That, of course, is what bothers Hauser.

Well said. It's the nature of religious dogmatic beliefs to make the believer unify with those beliefs and consider them inseparable.

473. 'Christian God is not to blame'

Comment #103036 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 8:26 am

I do not now want to get into arguments about the historicty of the gospels or their validity as historical documents - that matter has not been settled to your satisfaction, but it has to mine.

And if you were born in India (to Hinduist parents) you would say the same about Sruti and Smriti. That's how weak your argument is.

474. 'Christian God is not to blame'

Comment #103018 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 7:43 am

Babies are vulnerable, more helpless initially than any of the animals.

I often hear this argument from the clergy. The same clergy that indoctrinates and brainwashes children and the same clergy that shields child molesters.

475. 2 fleas for the Christmas week

Comment #103016 by notsobad on December 24, 2007 at 7:42 am

The author believes that the concept of a transcendent entity as the source of morality and ultimate justice, is an essential foundation of rational human life and functioning.

So that's why the more religious and dogmatic a country and society is the worse they are off (currently South America, Africa, Middle East, Bible belt...). And that's why the less religious and dogmatic a society is, the better they are off. The logic is impeccable.

476. Chasers war on everything: Evangelicals

Comment #102410 by notsobad on December 22, 2007 at 4:32 pm

These people (professional Christians) profit because there is demand, to which I can say only:
"A fool and their money are soon parted."

The tax-free part pisses me off indeed though.

477. Bible bashing dying out in Kansas

Comment #102387 by notsobad on December 22, 2007 at 3:05 pm

According to the Bible, god indeed hates homosexuals. Funny, because he is also supposed to have created them.

478. 'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

Comment #102386 by notsobad on December 22, 2007 at 3:03 pm

What a kind message full of love and tolerance at the Christmas time!

479. Good God! A politician who doesn't believe...

Comment #101992 by notsobad on December 21, 2007 at 11:06 am

Horrible article

480. Sorry to disappoint, but it's nonsense to suggest we want to ban Christmas

Comment #101991 by notsobad on December 21, 2007 at 10:58 am

jeepyjay, the problem is between the computer and chair then :)

481. Jesus ad angers church groups

Comment #100691 by notsobad on December 19, 2007 at 6:03 am

Professional Christian have always supplied us with a lot of fun through their complaints.

482. CBC News: Sunday - Richard Dawkins

Comment #100447 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 4:05 pm

However, if atheists are now officially making the claim that the world would necessarily be better if there were no religion in it, on top of the claim that there is no god, then we have officially made ourselves fair game for comparison to the Soviets during the Stalinist period.

No. Dawkins et al say that they oppose religion because it is not based on evidence and it is dogmatic. So their criticism includes Marxist and Stalinist dogma.

483. Interview with Richard Dawkins: On Christmas

Comment #100445 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 4:02 pm

"You sound like the kind of person who sends Christmas cards to the Archers".

I didn't get this reference. What does it mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Archers

484. Borders Tags Atheist Book with 'O Come All Ye Faithless' Cards

Comment #100433 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 3:45 pm

The original should be more like "Come all ye hateful"

485. This Week's Flea

Comment #100415 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 3:20 pm

a world expert on science and theology

right

486. Borders Tags Atheist Book with 'O Come All Ye Faithless' Cards

Comment #100231 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 12:03 pm

"Christians have always been used to being punch bags..."

How stupid can you get?

487. Abstinence Programs Face Rejection

Comment #100116 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 9:01 am

About time:
"Teenagers who take virginity pledges -- public declarations to abstain from sex -- are almost as likely to be infected with a sexually transmitted disease as those who never made the pledge, an eight-year study released yesterday found."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48509-2005Mar18.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7232643/

These people also marry early and try fewer partners, so it's not surprising that these people have the highest divorce rates.

488. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100065 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 7:32 am

The anger expressed in this article reminds me of a joke I've just heard in the last episode of the Simpsons.
Homer comes to Ned to ask him why Ned called the police last night. Ned answers he heard a hubbub. So Homer asks what he did, and Ned answers:
"I can't say for sure but as a Christian, I assume the worst."

489. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100015 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 4:34 am

Libby Purves' comments and observations are an entirely reasonable contribution to the debate and it's concerning that we react rather than respond, when this is exactly what we criticise our opponents for.

Entirely reasonable? This childish rant? Should we respond in a similar manner and say that you cannot use electricity and wear glasses if you don't support science?

490. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #100005 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 3:56 am

May I ask my RD friends where THEY would "draw the line" in perpetuating christian rituals please? (I'm not clear myself, and I freely admit it. But I do hate hypocrisy.) At what point does "harmless" become "harmful"?

As long as you don't try to force your beliefs on others and limit others' freedom, you can do and believe in whatever you want.
Baptizing a baby is an infringement of the baby's freedom and future choices.
Anyway, we have always had religion-free Christmas in my family and I enjoyed it as a kid (maybe even more than the kids forced to go to church just because they have to).

491. God rest you merry atheist

Comment #99966 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 1:58 am

He can sing Christian mythology the same way anybody else can read Greek mythology and enjoy it.

While music of these songs is usually fine (e.g. Silent Night), lyrics are just boring.

BTW, I'd love to have Libby Purves' problems (and get paid for it).

492. Dawkins: I'm a cultural Christian

Comment #99960 by notsobad on December 18, 2007 at 1:23 am

And that MP is spewing bullshit indeed.

If you want to enjoy the holiday, you don't have to care about how others do it.
And if you meet with your family and give parents only because you are supposed to, it's fake anyway.

493. This Is Not a Test

Comment #99835 by notsobad on December 17, 2007 at 4:49 pm

Kucinich is the best one there (along with Gravel, but he has no choice).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Dennis_Kucinich

All other democrats and republicans will just keep the old bullshit rolling.

494. Dawkins: I'm a cultural Christian

Comment #99776 by notsobad on December 17, 2007 at 2:18 pm

Someone at BBC sure didn't know what to write about because Dawkins said this several times before.

Anyway, regarding the Christian heritage, many people give Christianity too much credit for things it didn't create.

495. Do the laws of God trump those of man?

Comment #99564 by notsobad on December 17, 2007 at 4:19 am

Yes. Freedom is nothing unless you have the right to be an idiot. What you don't get is the right to impose your idiocy on others - and yes, that can include your own children, if your idiocy can be shown to be harming them.

That's exactly my credo. However, the problem with religion - and dogmatic beliefs in general - is that it's a virus that wants to spread itself using its current hosts.

Oh, and comment #99532 by wooter was hilarious.

496. Creationists plan British theme park

Comment #99560 by notsobad on December 17, 2007 at 3:53 am

Who cares as long as they don't get a cent or tax exemption from the government.

Also, what ever happened to "You shall not make for yourself an idol?"

497. THE FOUR HORSEMEN - Available Now on DVD!

Comment #99235 by notsobad on December 16, 2007 at 2:38 am

ADH,
if you need an imaginary friend to find 'grace' and 'love', you need to find better friends, girlfriend, interests, etc.

498. Creation college seeks state's OK to train teachers

Comment #99046 by notsobad on December 15, 2007 at 10:34 am

They just want to cut on costs. Creationism Lesson 1 - god did it, end of lesson and course.

499. An Open Letter to Richard Dawkins

Comment #99011 by notsobad on December 15, 2007 at 7:32 am

'rational skepticism'... that is, 'atheism'.

Even that is still an exaggeration making atheism more than it is. You don't have to be a rational skeptic, not rational, not skeptical to be an atheist.

500. Where Is Atheism When Bad Things Happen?

Comment #99003 by notsobad on December 15, 2007 at 6:49 am

Downunder,
you wasted a lot of time marveling at pointless things.
Start with basics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy