451. Sprinting down the evolutionary highway

Comment #121762 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 5:13 am

"That could mean extended fertility spans, says John Hawks: "Any kind of genetic variation that increases the success of later fertility will be selected for," he predicts."

So, with our increasing ability to care for and treat those who would otherwise not be selected for, the selection pressure is being reduced, increasing the number of mutations available to the process of evolution.

452. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121756 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 4:49 am

Steve,

Not irate, it's more of a melancholy confusion, of which you have so eloquently reinforced.

That's a good point, I've read 'The Gospel of Buddha' by Paul Carus, which I really enjoyed, the Buddha's version of reincarnation is completely materialistic and karma is really just a 'cause and effect' doctrine. It's amazing how teachings can become convoluted given enough time.

453. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121746 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 4:16 am

Irate_atheist,

Maybe I should re-phrase that as 'atheists should be rational people' or 'I hope that atheists would be rational', oh boy - refer to avatar.

454. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121743 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 4:12 am

"The religious often insist that a belief in God is sufficient to provide morality, meanings and so on."

I often become suspicious of this belief as it begs the question 'how can we know what God wants', therein enters the opportunistic preisthood.

I think keeping atheism free of baggage cannot be separated from those who espouse atheism, once one is known as an atheist one's rationality is immediately called into question, as we have seen so many times on this site, by theist/trolls. Yep, it's going to be a battle.

455. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121737 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:57 am

Richard,

No, it doesn't. That would take many volumes, and end up becoming absurd. I see your point.

456. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121736 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:55 am

Steve - I see your point. Agreed. Although since people are 'atheists' I don't think that it will remain pure, unfortuately. Rationalism is not an easy standard to live up to. I think Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens do a good job and are great role models for what you are describing/prescribing.

457. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121729 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:38 am

"I don't know what the term "philosophy of atheism" means."

Atheism might not be a catagorized philosophy, like Zen buddhism. Not believing in the existence of God would be a tenent of a philosophy, wouldn't it?

458. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121727 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:31 am

"No-one addresses common social needs by not having a belief in God!"

Ideally that would be true, but, in fact people do. Wouldn't anyone address any issue based on their philosophical viewpoint? Doesn't being an atheist affect one's behaviour resulting in a certain outcome, however small that may be.

459. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121720 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:17 am

Steve - "Atheism is usually a conclusion based on reason. Atheism no more has to "do anything" than does Special Relativity."

I disagree. Atheism is reasonable people, and forming groups for a good cause is a reasonable thing to do, and I can't see why the philosophy of atheism cannot be used as a platform.

460. There Are No Ghosts in Your Brain

Comment #121715 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 3:10 am

Richard,

It's that American Oprah-like pro-activism thing. I'm from Australia and most extra curricula activities (like religious organizations) are fairly benign. Although if the religious groups here were like the American ones I suspect there would be some sort of similar counter action, i.e., a more outspoken atheist movement.

461. God vs. Gridiron

Comment #121709 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 2:48 am

Looks like the church groups complied once they were made aware of the situation - what's the big issue? Wait, must go, there's a storm developing in my teacup.

462. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121670 by LorienRyan on February 4, 2008 at 12:29 am

dlitt,

While I don't necessarily disagree it's really quite relative, and in this case it depend's on what one is trying to achieve.

463. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121659 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 10:39 pm

Cartomancer,

Nice poem *tear*

464. Some non-Christians feel left out of election

Comment #121655 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 10:18 pm

quill,

Well put. And possibly the two opposing forces give us a reasonable rate of change that can be filtered through the community without to much damage. Of course it doesn't always work out ideally.

465. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121649 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 10:09 pm

I doubt that hes2@usa is a bad person or even stupid for that matter. Placing a high value on things that make us feel awe or wonder I believe is integral in motivating us to seek meaning in our lives, although, the religious make the mistake, I believe, in equating that sense of awe in the concept of god with truth claims about the nature of reality.

466. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121609 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 8:00 pm

We, and I think I speak for most here, do not deny God, we simply do not suppose one in the first place - because, as yet, there is no forthcoming evidence.

The onus is on those who believe in a god to provide the evidence for THEIR claim, not the contrary.

467. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121606 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 7:34 pm

I'm surprised these religious types don't protest against appendicectomy.

468. Letters: Theology has no place in a university

Comment #121591 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:30 pm

Hello Cartomancer,

I'm afraid that your pointed prose will fall on the fallow ground of vacant glazed eyed terminally tainted supernatural supposers.

Oh, and by the way do you have a link to Sam's interpretations of Prawn Jambalaya, I'd love to read it and can't seem to find it through google.

469. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121330 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 8:35 am

"But is one person's life more important than another's?"

That is completely relative and depends on who you ask. Ideally, no. Pratically, yes.

470. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121325 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 8:23 am

"If necessary; if the alternative is death on the streets, yes. I think we should."

I agree. The value of human life is the central issue.

471. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121318 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 8:14 am

"If we are to ask in regards to those who are able to help, to what degree do we offer that help? To what level are we willing to sacrifice our own lives to provide that help?"

Well, that is really up to the individual and it is based on a whole range of complex issues.

In terms of the homeless and welfare - from the governments point of view I think it is more to do with suppressing crime than helping individuals escape their dilemma.

472. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121304 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 7:59 am

"Totally agree, which is the foundation of the problem to begin with; so who's really responsible then?"

That's a difficult question to answer, who is really responsible? Well, I guess those who are able to help. In terms of blame it would be better to ask, 'who really stands to gain' (from the oppression).

473. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #121294 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 7:42 am

It's obvious that God created the universe because the universe could only have been created by God.

People buy that? It boggles the mind.

474. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121290 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 7:28 am

Scooter - "If you send a week's worth of food to a country, does this help these people to get up on their feet and figure it out or does it nourish them so they feel better now and then decide to engage in sex again creating a greater problems."

I think the real issue here is oppressive regimes.

475. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121281 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:50 am

I thought high birth rates was a natural consequence of difficult living situations, in most species, in order to keep the species alive. If that is the case can one really blame them? Of course we don't wish to see this occur - but I can't see how judgement of parents is applicable here. Of course humanitarian action is applicable.

476. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121275 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:34 am

"Some friends of mine are providing more than just motivation. They are planning to adopt a disadvantaged child, such as one born of a drug addict or with parents in prison. I find that admirable."

Me too. And I can relate to parts of that comment personally.

477. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121271 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:31 am

It seems to me the disagreement here is not about what the options are for people but how one deals with the consequences, of not only one's own situation but our moral obligation to others also.

478. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121264 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:24 am

In a rich civilised society, well, relatively, maybe those who are somehow unable to take advantage of opportunity or intergrate into society need some sort of motivational education or even psychological help. In the right spirit, if I may say that. This is a difficult and complex issue.

479. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121259 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:13 am

"I would be interested to hear Lorien's view of helping those who are born into poverty."

Please see my comment #121244.

I think poverty is an unnecessary tragedy, and am all for aid and education, of course, especially for those in forced poverty by amoral regimes.

480. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121256 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:09 am

Remember that great old TV show 'the odd couple'?

I think that is a good illustration of what's going on here.

481. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121250 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 6:04 am

I can see the fundamental difference here, but it's really two sides to one coin.

482. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121244 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:58 am

"The greatest and most difficult maturity is probably the acceptance of the life created by personal choice."

If I may add, with the paramerters of the environment in which one finds oneself.

In an ideal world we would all seek to gain and give as many opportunities to people, and ourselves, as possible in order to live a rich and happy life.

483. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121233 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:48 am

"I don't think attempting to isolate oneself from one's responsibility to others is mature; quite the opposite."

I think it is fair to say that much of one's responsibility to others is taking responsibility yourself, within reason of course, there can be times when we need others - as long as there is a consensus that it is a legitimate reason.

Is there really much of a disagreement here?

484. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121225 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:32 am

"I just find this armchair psychology quite amusing."

Guilty as charged.

485. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121223 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:30 am

"We may not always like the outcomes to our choices but blaming others for those choices just keeps a person self-inflicted with his or her personal victimization."

Yes. It is ironic that a deterministic philosophy seems so essential in breaking down that helpless infantile instinct to cry when one feels a need in order to emancipate onself - but oh isn't irony such a wonderful thing.

486. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121219 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:25 am

Steve - "But now you are assigning motives to situations?"

Situations can be manipulated by people as an extention of their motives.

487. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121215 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:20 am

"...it would be great if all people would recognize this and start acting for their personal welfare and personal freedom with accountability and responsibility..."

The road to enlightenment is not an easy road to travel, accepting the truth can be very difficult at times for people. I have found that with practice it becomes easier - we learn to take the punches, so to speak.

488. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121207 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:10 am

"People find it difficult to accept their insignificance within the big picture."

Even though the 'hard' science based philosophy seems so cold and deterministic it empowers people to make real 'choices.' Oh boy, what did I just say.

489. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121203 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 5:05 am

"Again, quite difficult at it's inception to dismantle."

I am in the throes at this stage, not so much the philosophy perhaps, more the practice - that lightning bolt is not always easy to contain.

Living and learning, it's so much fun!

490. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121197 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:57 am

To put it crudely - it's the me,me,me syndrome.

Religion puts people down psychologically in order to manipulate them into a dependent state of mind, a victim mentality I guess. God is their 'father.' People don't grow up psychologically with a religious philosophy of parents in the sky.

491. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121191 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:47 am

"I never try to make a person understand anything but I did struggle with this for a while. I like having moved to the position of non-victim by just stating my personal viewpoint and they do with it what they will."

Yes, not an easy ideal to intergrate into one's life. Comes with the right kind of maturity, especially since philosophical ideals are so intergral in how people behave.

492. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121185 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:34 am

"Of course, all this freaks people out who don't want to admit that their inherent nature which "chooses" certain behaviors is outside their control because so many behaviors have been "moralized" rather than realized."

It's not a concept that comforts people or makes them feel *special*

493. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121184 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:32 am

"The idea of "free will" is itself a negation of the understanding, which always makes me laugh when a religious person tries to use this idea."

My control of that victim impulse becomes a juggling act when attempting to make a religious person even try and understand the concept of determinism...

494. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121180 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:28 am

Ok, must look that book up. I really enjoy Daniel Dennett's and Steven Pinker's (not so directly) work in that area.

It is a hard subject to think about, I liken it to trying to see one's own back. There are many seemingly paradoxical idea's involved.

495. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121178 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:22 am

I see 'choice' or 'free will' as simply our ignorance of the determining factors. This makes us feel like we are making a choice.

496. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121175 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:17 am

...was on another post...

Well, in a sense yes, but then it is a topic I am still working through. From a purely materialistic perspective I can't see how determinism is unavoidable, even though science is still working on the physical problems it seems to me to be heading that way.

497. God-Man and Human-Man Team Up

Comment #121172 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 4:08 am

Be great to see God-Man and Human-Man team up to find Human-Man's future wife...

God-Man: That's her she's the one, its fate!

Human-Man: Hey there.

Unsuspecting Woman: Get lost creep.

Human-Man: But...but...

498. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121171 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 3:57 am

*sigh* yes.

499. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121166 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 3:48 am

I have philosophical reservations about 'choice', although in the real world and especially in a legal context of accountability that makes sense.

500. Hitchens V. Boteach

Comment #121165 by LorienRyan on February 3, 2008 at 3:42 am

scooternyc,

Yes, I see your point. Anger in general is a very good example, someone who is angry with the world. Come to think of it, yes, it is very common.