451. Unreasonably superstitious

Comment #62720 by Veronique on August 11, 2007 at 2:31 am

6. Comment #62706 by Kimpatsu

Did you see The Messiah with Derren Brown? I haven't seen the Bullshit Detective. Love the idea. The more the better:-)

Got to watch Dr Who - been watching it since 1964, can't give up now:-). This series is so far out there, it's delightfully silly and superbly entertaining.

Cheers
V

452. Richard Dawkins and the New Age fakers

Comment #62705 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 11:34 pm

There you go, Scooter, vindicated, sort of:

the often expensive spiritual services that bring succour to the sucker.

453. Unreasonably superstitious

Comment #62700 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 11:10 pm

Haha BT. Well done but it's fairly easy to decipher in context.

I am so glad RD included that ridiculous Bishop of Carlisle. I sent the Bish a scathing email - surprise! I haven't had a reply:-)

Michael Deacon's article is just a yawn after reading Charlie Brooker's. That one I really like!!

I don't understand why the lawyers cautioned RD against including the interview with the tarot reader.

It would be terrific to see such a charlatan shown up to be exactly what she is - a bullshitter, who asks and receives money for crap.

V

454. Charles Brooker's screen burn

Comment #62697 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 10:31 pm

What a wonderful rant! If RD has softened his tone for this series: Enemies of Reason, he's going to need people like Charles Brooker to rant for him. And maybe that's a better way.

It may be better to have a number of 'Dawkin's Rottweilers' out there, at large as it were, while RD's unswerving politeness and capacity to send up BS with ridicule holds sway in the media.

I have no idea who this bloke is, but I like his style.

The NHS recently spent £10m refurbishing the London Homeopathic Hospital.

455. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #62659 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 4:28 pm

105. Comment #62228 by hungarianelephant

It's the time-out, I think. I have now learnt to type my comments in a new Word document while flipping back and forth to the thread to make sure that I address everything I want to.

By the time I am finished and ready to post, I click on the comments box and copy my comment across. Even if the site tells me I am logged in, I have realised that it's not entirely accurate. If, while typing in Word, I have had to answer the door, the phone or just make a cup of tea, by the time I come to post (while logged in), it won't necessarily be posted on the thread.

SO! I have to log in again, but my comment is still in Word and I can re-copy it across to the thread.

I hope I haven't tried to tell you things you already know, but that's my way around the problem of lost posts:-)

Cheers
V

456. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62657 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 4:21 pm

181. Comment #62645 by Summer Seale

I must say that on a cursory glance, the paper seemed to me to be obviously Republican. On another cursory look, it still does:-).

I do know people who are utterly committed to the public stance of their particular preferred political party regardless of the issues. There are others, and we in Oz call them 'swinging voters', who vote on issues, rather than party preferred. A greater number here in Oz are now opting to vote primarily for our Green Party while distributing their preference votes to the major parties. You have to realise that voting is compulsory in Oz, so our election campaigns have a very different flavour and far less money and hype expended on them.

The assumptions made about card-carrying members of a political party are that, by and large, those members subscribe to the party's stated stance on issues. It happens here as well. A kind of short-hand, I guess.

I was really only commenting on the article by Mansfield. It made me cross.

On the 'war on terrorism', we will have to agree to disagree. And I do think it is a stupid name for an invasion of a sovereign country. That 'war' has been instrumental in developing both radical Islam and fundamentalist Christianity to a height not before seen (at least in my lifetime). The religious polarisation has become dangerously and politically unstable as a direct result of the 'war'. Getting deeper in is a perilous path. So I disagree with Hitchens as well. Hedges on the other hand, and a Christian to boot, says some very sane things (to my mind) about this 'war'.

Thank you for disclosing your views; it didn't even cross my mind that you were an 'ignorant' American:-). I think you may have taken exception where none was intended. And, yes, I knew you were an atheist:-).

Time for a cup of Quetz's favourite blend.
V

457. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62651 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 3:06 pm

180.Comment #62633 by Yorker

They haven't arrived yet Yorker.

OT – but it needs to be mentioned:

Interestingly, from The Independent last week in comments, it appears as though the push on this site to send TGD to all 645 pollies in Britain, has had a salutary effect. It is claimed by Waterstone's that TGD is the second most popular book to be taken by pollies for their summer reading. Hague's biography of Wilberforce takes the top place but it is gratifying that TGD holds second place with Labour MPs packing it into their library.

That is one terrific result:-). Upwards and ever onwards. I hope my enthusiasm over this piece of news is not misplaced. You would know better than I, being in the UK.

On the other side of the coin:

Depressingly, last week I had the misfortune of listening to our PM and the Leader of the Opposition delivering addresses, publicly, to the Christian Lobby, trying to garner their votes. I have never heard this sort of thing before in Oz. This rotten evangelical stuff has spread to our shores and infiltrated our politics. It's like a spreading sore.

It's still a beautiful day, but there's a shadow growing:-(.
V

458. The Out Campaign

Comment #62639 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 2:01 pm

Philip

I hope you had a terrific inebriated evening:-). You can't imagine living in Oz. Not one of our buildings is more than a couple of hundred years old.

I have wondered, at times, about the roofs of old buildings. My house is a mere stripling - only 60 years old. This year I replaced the tile roof because the tiles were starting to flake and the ceilings were in danger of disintegrating from rain leaking in.

Your pub: is there anything original left since before Harold? How many times would a roof replacement be necessary? Lintels, floors, framework etc.?

Then you have all those castles, not just in England, but all over Europe. Enormous buildings often in the most inaccessible of places. Maintenance must be a problem, surely.

I suppose some of them, under the National Trust, must be able to rely on public funds for maintenance but there are so many old buildings.

It's a mystery.

Saturn return, interesting! This "properly realised adult" you speak of, what is one of those exactly?!

459. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62632 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 1:22 pm

178. Comment #62612 by Summer Seale

OT
I read the Mansfield article and understand thoroughly, why you were pissed off. That paper is so obviously Republican and no, I have never seen it before. But then I am in Oz.

Mansfield makes the same egregious errors that deliberately and dishonestly misrepresent the atheist stance. I know we have heard all his arguments before, but it is a piss-off to read them yet again.

I couldn't see any list of comments but there is a reply facility – if you're registered. I toyed with the idea of registering, maybe I will. Someone more able than I to argue cogently should leave a reply. I'll just get cross.

The sun is on its way up, it's going to be a beautiful day:-).
V

460. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62528 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 3:27 am

173. Comment #62509 by rokort

Careful rokort - we can't exceed the 8.33% (repeating)statistical average here:-)

Sorry, honey, the natal placement of your moon or your rising sign is upsetting the basic, fundamental meaning of Virgo:-) Ain't that a shame?!!

Your's and tuibguy's birthdays are very soon!! Enjoy! I will toast you with my always and ever ready bottle of red. I'm the 16th Sept. Both of you are late August - 22nd; 23rd August? Go boys!! My blessing season this in thee!.

Cheers
V

461. The Out Campaign

Comment #62485 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 12:58 am

701. Comment #62243 by Philip1978

No Philip, you haven't really read me wrong at all. I can intellectually understand god/gods, it's just that I have no understanding of what it must 'feel' like to be involved, to live, in a belief in the supernatural. To believe, if you like. This is what I was quizzing Billy about. He's pretty good at explaining it. Go back and have a look at his posts on various threads.

I just cannot conceive of adhering to a belief system that lauds a supernatural being that overlooks all your actions; that asks obsequious subservience to itself; that demands that you believe wholeheartedly in an obvious set of crap; that asks you to overturn reason and embrace superstition. It makes no sense to me. This is why I need the Billys of the world to patiently explain to me what this belief actually means in one's day-to-day life. Otherwise I will never comprehend it. The Flea? He couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag, let alone engage me in anything but vitriol and ridicule for a grown man believing in fairy stories.

To me, it is the most revolting, scare mongering, fear inculcating, manipulative and cynical ideology I have had the misfortune to come across. How can anyone believe such absolute bullshit? You tell me Philip, 'cause I cannot come to terms with my fellow man's lust for ideological slavery. I just can't.

Of course, having said that, I love the stories of the gods; their interaction with mere mortals; their overweening power in the face of human strife; their come-uppance; their lust to involve themselves (gasp! physically) in the doings of men. I love the stuff; it's rich and embroidered, full of passion, love and hate, partisanship and poetry. Do I believe it? Not on your nelly!!!

Quetz:-) on the other hand:-) tea rules!!

If I were to adopt a belief in god or gods, I would have to opt for the Greek Pantheon. The gods are so human; one can actually relate to them. Monotheism? Fuck off. How ridiculous and mentally challenged can one be? Poor Flea, poor Biz, poor Danielos – what a waste of lives. Sigh.

NB – you realise, my dear Philip, at 29 (happy birthday) you are entering a period called the Saturn return (astrology) that decrees that you must, in order to progress developmentally, turf all the things that you have been taught and hold dear but that no longer advantage you and actually could hinder your growth as a properly realised adult:-). Gorgeous stuff designed to hold you in thrall. All ideologies attempt the same control. Rail, rail against the night:-).

My best
V

462. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62479 by Veronique on August 10, 2007 at 12:09 am

I have just returned from an interesting afternoon with a friend who is as dodgy as I am, but in a different way. I told her about the upcoming series on The Enemies of Reason. She used to be a chiropractor and went to a Natural Health type college. She then practised her craft – I didn't know this about her until today. I want to tell you about some of the things we talked of before I forget. She's really not that gullible and related instances for which neither she nor I have answers.

She talked about the efficacies of different herbs on different ailments. I don't have that much of a problem with herbs because they contain active ingredients that can be distilled in colloidal form etc. Pharma companies do this stuff all the time.

1, A horse spiked herself on a sharp piece of timber in the groin area and broken through the femoral artery. Lots of blood, horse lying down and very weak. Peg used hypericum and calendula herbs from her garden and stuffed them into the gaping wound. The vet remarked that the owners should bring their tractor with a bucket to shift the horse from the rocky ground so they could bury the carcass elsewhere. Peg dropped the ubiquitous Rescue Remedy onto the horse's tongue every hour or so. The bleeding stopped and the next day, everyone helped the horse to her feet and she started eating grass. The wound became infected but eventually expelled the residue of the herbs and was still alive after 9 more years. As I say, I don't have so much of a problem with medicinal herbs.

2. A lap dog sitting on his owner's knee kept butting his nose up against her breast (shut up you lot). She had her annual check up; breast cancer in that breast. A number of phials were loaded with tissue samples, one of which contained cancerous cells. The dog sniffed his way down the phials and located the only one with the cancer cells. If any of you know of this study, please tell us. Boggled me; Peg can't explain it either.

3. Then there's the dog that knew when his owner climbed into (not her normal) car some 15 miles away to come home. Synchronised watches with the people who had taken up residence in her house for recording purposes. Everyone took note of the exact time that events occurred but didn't contact each other. When the owner arrived home, the times were checked. As soon as she had got into the car, the dog had gone to the front door and whined until his owner arrived home. It's a mystery.

4. A ewe was having trouble lambing. Part of the lamb's head had presented but the ewe was exhausted and the lamb was cyanosed with a blue-back tongue. Peg dropped Rescue Remedy onto the ewe's tongue while her daughter, at the busy end of proceedings was trying to help the birth. Peg said that within 30 seconds of administering the Rescue Remedy to the mum, the lamb's tongue became pink. Nothing could travel through the ewe's system through to the placenta and then to the lamb in that time. It's also a mystery. Even while admitting to the possibility of faulty memory, Peg said she can't explain it. Neither can I.

She told me that while she was at this college, all students took various homeopathic preparations and recorded their physical changes (if any) in a diary. These trials were conducted over a 4-week period per preparation while each participant was a healthy person with no ailment. She admits that she could have recorded what she thought was happening to her as self delusion, but I could tell she didn't really believe that. What she did say was that a preparation supposed to treat a physical ailment, showed (in her) the symptoms of that ailment. I am flummoxed. I said to her that she knows, as well as I, that there is nothing left after the dilution treatment. She, sort of, agreed, so I introduced the ridiculous theory of 'water memory' remarking that the water molecule pissed out by Mozart and then incorporated into the homeopathic regime would have to have a very tortured memory. At which point she shifted to 'genetic memory' eg. Mozart's prodigious talent, extant at such an early age. That one is easily debunkable and she eventually agreed.

At least she thinks the psychobabble industry is bullshit. That's a plus:-). However I think she is pagan oriented. That's a minus. She is, these days, a more political animal and that is where she and I mesh fairly well.

Bugger this thread, it has grabbed my interest. I can't recall all the topics Peg and I ranged over during the four hours I was with her. Oh, shit. If only I knew as many fencing moves that I am sure RD will use in his TV series.

Any comments anyone? I'll be brain-dead at this rate:-).

Cheers
V

463. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62420 by Veronique on August 9, 2007 at 4:45 pm

It was in the 1970s that I came across astrology when I spent 5 masochistic years in Melbourne's appalling climate (they don't have weather in Melbourne – Hi Russell and Baeoz:-)).

It seemed everyone asked what my star sign was. I discovered I was a Virgo. Like tuibguy, I am not obsessively neat, disciplined or driven. I don't even have a tidy mind! But I did pursue astrology to the point where I learned to construct charts. I enjoyed that part of the process because I like figuring and interpolating.

There are thousands of books on astrological interpretations. And that's where the problem lies. Everyone puts his/her own spin on the basic assumptions and 'meanings' that then burgeon and build on each other so that any interpreter can pull anything out of the hat to justify his/her 'skill'.

So tuibguy and I are not classic Virgos. The spin then goes: 'well the mitigating, transforming and modifying effects of this angle between these planetary positions in the house of the …(insert house)… will change the 'flavour' of the intrinsic meanings relating to the basic attributes of Virgo'. Great gobbledegook. It's quite complicated and the astrologer's 'art' is to synthesise all these conflicting 'bits' of information into some sort of quasi-profile.

Those of you who have talked about your contacts with astrologers have met poor ones. I have seen and heard excellent astrology spin-doctors. They can be very good. A bit like Derren Brown.

Of course the trouble with astrology is that it basically assumes a geocentric system and that it anthropomorphises symbolic figures and attributes qualities to those figures. In that sense it is no different from religious symbology. And it was an 'old' system of divination in a, then, more event driven world. Someone apparently 'predicted' that Harold would lose his eye!

All that was old, is new again:-). The Theosophists grappled astrology to their bosoms in the 1900s. By the later 20th C, astrology had been picked up by Jungian psychologists, police and other profilers, vocational guidance and other counsellors. Indeed Jung made natal charts for everyone he saw professionally!!

Of course, practically all the alternative healthers 'believe' in astrology. Some are more sanguine than others. No one now believes the sun goes around our planet, but the belief in the symbolism remains.

And it's a great way of dismissing personal responsibility. 'It's not my fault really, it's just that I am a Virgo and that's what Virgos do'. Same as religion and the 'will' of god.

So anyway, Yorker: Sun in Leo, Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Leo, Venus in Virgo, Mars in Taurus and Jupiter in Leo. And that's you honey, in a nutshell:-). You can tell anyone that and receive as many different raves as you like (until you get bored).

Hint – she would have made the quickest ex-Mrs. Yorker hall of fame:-).

Have a good day all, it's Friday here in Oz!
V

464. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62222 by Veronique on August 9, 2007 at 1:01 am

157. Comment #62219 by Shuggy

Can we assume you are a Gemini?

Astrology is probably the hardest to pin down, for the reasons you have given. 'It's an wholistic approach, you know. If you don't appear to show the attributes of your sun sign, then it must be your rising sign - the window to your essential being. No? Mercury is dominating your chart. No? Must be Venus. No? Then it has to be the Moon - you know, your relationship with your mother and women. No? Your non-belief is because Neptune is the deceiver and is in Pisces.'

Great stuff! The best bullshit ever. 'Please understand this apocryphal collation of (subjective) data goes back 5,000 years. It must be true?!! The data has antiquity as its source.'

It just goes on and on.

Cheers
V

465. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62216 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 9:00 pm

154. Comment #62205 by Yorker

Shit! I'd forgotten that!!

The latest is due early September. Of the other two, one is a non-step-grandson because Kenyon isn't married to his lady. The other was a mistake by my younger son Josh. We didn't find out until young Dane was 2 years old. Both these boys are now about 18.

They are both strapping lads, so they had better not dare to climb onto my smallish knee:-). Sit at my feet, not a problem, they can refill my glass:-)

Cheers
V

466. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62203 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 6:13 pm

142. Comment #62057 by Corylus

Thanks, but I didn't make the avatar. A friend did it for me. I am, however, going to learn how to do this so that I can edit the avatar regularly.

What's disturbing about this thread is that every time I access it, I have to go past the mad woman's photograph. Se is seriously nutty looking. Very Bugs Bunnyish!!

Cartomancer, I was given a book on financial astrology years ago. Apparently there was a penurious bloke in the US at the turn of the last century who made a squillion on futures by charting futures together with astrological charts. His success rate was extraordinary.

I used to think it would be good fun to try and reproduce his astrological charting with a market chartist. I didn't ever get around to it. Now, I couldn't give a damn anyway.

Cheers
V

467. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62199 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 5:46 pm

Baeoz

I don't manage, just oversee budgets and finances as the honorary treasurer and the only person who has any idea about money and reporting standards (except for our newly hired bookkeeper - bless him, someone to talk to finally who understands). It's the Mullumbimby & District Neighbourhood Centre, incorporating Emergency Relief, Domestic Violence Outreach, Early Intervention Programs and Women's Resource Services.

The auditor is due next week, so I have been busy. This too will pass:-)

Cheers
V

468. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #62196 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 5:38 pm

OK, elephant. I am so pleased that you have no brook with this nonsense. Please forgive my slinging arrows at you.

I think we can broaden the scope here. It's not just homeopathy, methinks. Homeopathy has no active ingredient left at the end of the process of dilution. It's obvious bunkum. So this wanky 'water memory' idea is introduced in an attempt to give some legitimacy to homeopathy.

We also have Bach Flower Remedies. Essence (miniscule) of flower in a solution of water and brandy. There are a couple of National Institute of Health studies cited in wikipedia (my first port of call, due to time constraints).

There are a number of critical studies cited in wikipedia relating to homeopathy.
I am not sure that the claims for homeopathy are that different from the claims made by the Bach flower remedy therapists. There may well be other similar remedies. I don't know.

I have just looked at www.badscience.net. It will take some trawling through, so will have to wait until the weekend. As will the studies cited in wikipedia.

I hold no hope whatsoever in ridding the world of these charlatans, be they manufacturers of health non-products or psychobabblers. They have been with us, like religious nuttery, for so long. Alternative medicine has smarmed its way into our social fabric and is here to stay. It is being built on by a new crop of charlatans. And they have found a social spine to creep up. They are even welcomed!!

Having said that, it doesn't mean we should sit down and give up. Exposure is necessary, however, the true believers won't budge. I look in horror at the amount of money spent by people I know on psychic readings, tarot readings, clairvoyants, astrology readings, reiki treatments etc. the list goes on and on and it's getting worse.

Education could help if only those who control curricula would see critical thinking as a core educative value, like the three 'Rs'. But that won't happen widely either, because they haven't been taught the necessary critical thinking skills. So it goes on.

Sad, but expected. RD's coming TV series will allow some people to see through this wankery and that is good. To my mind he is doing just what he should be doing in his professional life. He has the profile. People will watch him. I just hope that others will follow him into the public arena to combat this (yet another!) burgeoning bullshit trade. Of course these things are open to evidential proof or disproof. It doesn't seem to change people though. Short, violent death? I wish:-).

V: Come on, you know that homeopathy is a lot of twaddle. It's just water!

Friend: Yes, I know dear, but it makes me feel better. And Rescue Remedy calms me down when I am anxious, motherly pat on V's forearm.

How do you combat that?

Cheers
V

469. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62180 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 3:30 pm

Corylus

Old enough that people expect me to be sensible: young enough to fight that expectation.

470. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62079 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 5:32 am

142. Comment #62057 by Corylus

You must be young. Black went with my twenties and forties. Not to say I haven't got black pants and coat now - it's just more brown these days, a bit like my brownish (used to be grey) hair.

Hahaha - we are a weird lot (at least, I am).

You will enjoy knowing that I also toyed with new age shit (I was stoned for most of my thirties), pretty vulnerable to all comers and with about as much critical capacity as could be found in a chillum.

Oops, did I say that? Fuck, yes I did. The only thing I can say in my defence, is that I learnt how to build a house, that didn't fall down and that housed me and my babies well. I felt good about that.

How old are you Corylus? Am I just an old chook seen through your eyes? Maybe so:-) We all have such a wealth of personal experience. Isn't that terrific? Black rules!!

My best
V

471. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #62066 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 4:54 am

98. Comment #62041 by Richard Morgan

In....Out....(repeat until heart rate goes down)
Take one (ah, well, maybe more than one) glass of red wine - look at the sunset, breathe deeply, then get acerbic!! Now post!!!.:-)

I love your posts Rich, you are a good foil. Don't stop:-)

thinks - I should stop being serious; Rich's way is much more effective, acerbic humour rules

Cheers
V:-)

472. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #62062 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 4:42 am

Anecdotal evidence – and you say you are in the legal profession? Different headspace dear. Legal evidence is constrained by its own particular accepted system. As I said, that's another discussion.

On alltheweb.com there are 7.3 million entries under the query heading of 'complementary medicine'.

On the Australian Medical Association site, there are 49 documents.

On the British Medical Association site, there are 29 documents.

Presently, I cannot afford the time looking up these references. You are more than welcome to do that yourself. 78 entries, only some of which will address your apparent concerns, are not that many to click on. Try 'homeopathy' as a subset query. It may reduce your searches to relevant studies. Sorry, you work in the legal profession, yes? I am, at present, fairly well employed in the accounting profession, due to that time of the year (in Oz). If your time is similarly constrained, you will probably also not allocate the time to source any, and maybe, all studies, which leaves us where we were, at the beginning of this discussion.

I have thought, for years, that the 1.5% of personal income tax paid to the Oz Fed. Government that funds Medicare is falling behind the actual amount of tax dollars required to properly fund a national Medicare program. In its stead and as a parallel health care system, Oz has a burgeoning, inefficient, profit driven (listed on the exchange and therefore, via legislative and ASIC requirements, committed to shareholder returns) private health care system that preys on the public to pay fairly exorbitant premiums, annually, so that members can (hopefully) access health services on which such members can legitimately expect to be recompensed for some medical accounts. Certainly not all.

I would prefer (I don't know how many Oz citizens think this, however probably ½ my friends and acquaintances would not object to a lift from 1.5% to 2.5% of tax dollars to properly fund a public medical and health care regime that would not disadvantage the general population and would obviate the currently necessary membership to the above mentioned private health care providers (with their exclusion clauses). There is, in Oz taxation regulations, a basic floor taxable income under which, a taxpayer is not required to pay the currently standing 1.5% funding for Medicare. Unfortunately it is politically disadvantageous, given the enormous clout of the private health care club that, of course, consolidates itself over geographical boundaries. Yeah, globalism. Go, baby.

It's unscientific to promote homeopathy without evidence, but it's equally unscientific to dismiss it without investigating its specific claims in the face of anecdotal evidence.

473. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #62021 by Veronique on August 8, 2007 at 12:42 am

136. Comment #61990 by BAEOZ

Isn't it great? What's scary is that about 15 years ago, oversized glasses were de rigeur and I had some. Must have looked like the cat!!:-)

Things go right over my head, you know. I can't properly appreciate your comment about Professor McGonnagal, because I have never seen a Harry Potter movie, like I had never watched Spinal Tap and missed the pertinence of Henri's aside in his post to me.

I have just come home from figures, more and most figures for this NGO I oversee. Time for a wine:-)

Cheers
V

474. The Out Campaign

Comment #61995 by Veronique on August 7, 2007 at 7:14 pm

Well done _J_ to get rid of the italics that I inadvertently brought in. When I tried to un-italicise the words, the i magics itself into a capital I. I think that's what stuffed up my post.

662. Comment #61887 by Flagellant

That's right, he did say 'the saddest'. And yes, of course, I should thank Henri for instigating my trip to the video store. Thanks, Henri:-).

It may be complicated, but why do you laugh?

I do get in the mood sometimes and play everything I have on my shelves written in D minor:-). The tissues and the wine stand close by. Gorgeous stuff.

KandelSchwartz

I used to sing with the Uni choir. A big choir (just as well!) The audience couldn't see the tears rolling down my face at the sheer beauty of the 9th (hard to keep the wobble out of my youthful soprano voice:-))

Cheers
V (the t-shirt fits me as well Russell:-))

475. New age therapies cause 'retreat from reason'

Comment #61986 by Veronique on August 7, 2007 at 6:16 pm

68. Comment #61580 by Goldy

I have only just clicked on that link to the BBC. I knew vaguely about this crap, but, sensationalist as the article is, it horrifies me.

I cannot understand why the Chinese are so gullible about this stuff. It's the same as powdered rhino horn delivering to its consumer a more potent sexual ability. How cretinous can people be?

They also say (those ubiquitous 'theys') that phyto-proteins, ie. soy, tepeh etc. can have a deleterious effect on male sexual function! Is that substantiated BTW? Then an extra-Olympic long jump is made to the Chinese 'need' to enhance sexual prowess by consuming powders, penises and other 'foods' that damage our co species.

Tiger penises at thousands of dollars?!!? @#$^&**(. Tigers are among the most endangered of species! And these guys want to eat their dicks? Unbelievable! Preposterous!

Of course, this just makes me sound like some environmental doomsayer and a rich westerner more concerned with the planet than the people

476. They let anybody onto the faculty at Oxford nowadays

Comment #61965 by Veronique on August 7, 2007 at 3:44 pm

102. Comment #61605 by Lord Asriel

Ah. Thanks for that, clears it up a bit. He is very disputational. I will let you know if he turns up on my doorstep with a bottle of red:-)

103. Comment #61615 by Goldy

Yes, I would have been better using McGrath's name rather than Henri's:-). My mistake - I have a bit of a fetish about Henri at the moment:-)

Do you like the avatar? I am obtaining lessons in this. I am stoked with this one:-)

Cheers
V

477. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61960 by Veronique on August 7, 2007 at 3:14 pm

88. Comment #61742 by Goldy

No, I haven't seen the bodysnatchers. I became interested in viruses though after reading about the various ebola viruses. I have just ordered Carl Zimmer's Parasite Rex; I am looking forward to its arrival. so much to learn, so little time.

91. Comment #61830 by hungarianelephant

You may as well try to justify the power of prayer in healing people.

Conventional medicine starts from the assumption 1 ailment -> 1 organic cause -> 1 drug.

If you want to test homeopathy's own claims (rather than conventional medicine's narrative of it) scientifically, it should not be too difficult to design a protocol

(Where are you in my hour of need, Veronique, some of these guys are almost causing me to lose my legendary sang froid???)

Is it really more difficult to believe that the body can operate as a unit rather than as a machine with discrete and unconnected parts?

478. The Gullible Age: Review of 'The Enemies of Reason'

Comment #61650 by Veronique on August 6, 2007 at 5:17 am

70. Comment #61613 by Goldy

Goldy, dear, have a squizz at this. Now I know you are in NZ, I know that you probably won't have heard this bloke.

It has to do with the amount of fructose added to packaged foods; the laying down of fatty deposits in the liver and the present obesity (and childhood diabetes) explosion.

Robert Lustig states that because fructose tends to behave a bit like alcohol, ie. not stimulating the secretion of insulin, thereby not stimulating the production of leptin in the hypothalamus that is supposed to let you know you have eaten enough.

You may be interested. So may the rest of you. I sent the link to my bro, a public health epidemiologist, who replied, 'fascinating'. He's busy but I hope to hear more from him in due course.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1969924.htm#transcript

Goldy, I didn't realise you were talking about cold and hot foods as yin and yang:-) Sorry, I misunderstood you. I am a bit wary about such things. I know about this concept and as it is supposed to apply to all manner of things in the world as a balance. It seems a little twee to me. But, hey, I am a westerner. I am glad you love Nonya food though:-)

I eventually contacted one of my pater's friends in Ipoh, who sent me curry powder, yum!!

I got to know Malacca well as a child (beautiful old city), but didn't go to Penang except on fleeting visits. I have a friend here who lived in Malaya for years and travels there every couple of years. I will probably accompany her in the next year, so thank you for your suggestion of an eating establishment.

Cheers
V - oh, and I think that 'belief' in alternate medicine therapies has been hijacked by money making charlatans. And they have also deluded themselves which is why they appear able to delude others who 'need' to believe in something other than religion. Who knows, Harry Potter may be the next belief structure:-).

479. They let anybody onto the faculty at Oxford nowadays

Comment #61603 by Veronique on August 6, 2007 at 1:27 am

I just had a squizz through the Dawkins-McGrath thread. I missed that one in June, as well (gosh - 1476 posts) although I listened to a bit of the McGrath rant. He's ridiculous debater.

McGrath is a disgrace to Oxford. What a muddled-headed dipstick! That thread is where I also came across Dianelos. Shit, does this guy actually live a life?

He sounds like an amalgam of Biz, the Fea and Henri. I couldn't read all the posts (I hadn't followed it well enough through its genesis and it would have taken the best part of my day - that I consider precious). Why are these guys on this site? Do they really think that posting the unevidenced stuff that they attempt to argue will really absorb any of us into their belief system(s)? Is it what their god(s) decree as proselytising and necessary behaviour to convert heathens?

Are they masochists for Christ (this is my personal feeling)?

I had a very heated exchange with a (I think) Frenchman (at least that's how he sounded). We exchanged phone numbers and his name is Yossi (so now, I think not a Frenchman - accent stumped me).

He says he's an agnostic and took umbrage when I said that fence sitting was not my game. He accused me of believing in atheism (yawn). I responded that atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour, to which his wife exploded into laughter. He didn't get it.

I forsee a few bottles of red wine and (maybe) vigorous debate. We'll see. I do know the cats will yawn first!! Gee they are clever:-), the cats, I mean:-).

At least it is face to face contact, that I rarely encounter (and over a latte on a sidewalk cafe, would you believe). There wasn't a chess board set up, maybe we'll see it in the future. Who knows:-)

Then he and his wife went off to a chiropractor to get his shoulder problem realigned. Maybe I'll see them again, maybe not.

OT, I know:-)
Cheers
V

480. The Out Campaign

Comment #61565 by Veronique on August 5, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Flag, I have got Spinal Tap for a week and yes, I most certainly will watch it again.

One thing I found and I can't recall which one of the band mentions it:

He composes in D minor, because it always catches the heartstrings. When I was in my teens I made this connection quite independently of anyone else or any studies. I was amazed later on to come across some studies attesting to this.

I have said I am in love with JS Bach. My brother had a friend who was a violinist. The first time I heard Bach's double violin concerto in D minor, I virtually swooned! Then I started to look at other compositions in D minor.

I was chuffed to hear this little gem come out in Spinal Tap:-)

Enjoyable movie
V