451. When Atheists Attack

Comment #253146 by hawt4dawk on September 24, 2008 at 6:27 am

1134. Comment #252874 by Titania

I know there is a page or more comments I haven't read yet, but I had to jump in right after this one to say again, "Titania, I still think you're the cat's pajamas." Well, okay, since you might think I'm "touched", I'll just say, "You're the bees' knees!" :)

452. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252784 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 3:27 pm

Later, Titania.

Bonzai -- I gave my "oh snap" chortle. I also chuckled at your George comment, too.

edit -- Fanusi, yeah, I'm a huge Doctor Who fan and I knew I'd heard of Rotwang, too, but I'm in pain and so brain is not working as well and had to check.

Gotta take off now. Good evening!

453. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252773 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 3:19 pm

For a second, I thought he typed "zealous leftist atheist meerkats." Just kidding!

Yeah, Border Collie, was happy to see you again. Maybe that's just cause I love border collies and I like your posts usually quite a lot.

Fanusi, you're welcome. I am afraid I have to google. Pity.

454. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252763 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Titania -- yeah, I find it a little shocking and it makes me uneasy. I prefer he comes back on here, takes responsibility for himself, and makes good on that finding common ground thing. If not, he is persona non grata to me.

when my son watched his first Nintendo game at three years old, he asked, "Mom, how do they fink of these everyfings?"

455. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252746 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Fanusi, What are you on about, mate? I've stuck up for you when Steve called you... something (?).. and stuck up for Steve when you called him whiny and you both told me to shut up. (Nicely. :) )

edit --

Brandy -- "male tumescence". So cute when it's put that way.

So, I wonder if the homophobia is a negative feedback loop, the anxiety causes tumescence, the physical arousal causes further anxiety?

456. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252740 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 2:50 pm

1081. Sciros

LOL! Much needed brightener.

Steve Zara

I don't agree with you about AJ. I think his behavior on this thread has been manipulative and hypocritical. He has ignored almost all relevant postings about Sarah Palin and focused on typical RDnet-type dust ups and hyperbole in order to justify making slurs against other people, not least being you yourself. On a website devoted to atheist discussion, people might react with some horror to the prospect of a US VP hopeful who belongs to such a non-mainstream, irrational, speaking-in-tongues church as Sarah Palin. He's just used that to make attacks on the people here who have different politics than him. It's slimy behavior. He takes every opportunity to misunderstand another person to gain the advantage. Look at how he comments to Decius that he's to be blamed because some men made out on a train in his view?? Hyuh? Out of sheer defensiveness, he finds some gap between what he's actually communicated and what actually happened and then uses that to paint himself as both my and Decius' victim? I'm sorry I have no truck with that kind of deceitful, cowardly communication.

457. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252708 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 2:26 pm

AtheistJon

By the way, I don't know if it was deliberate, but you try again to smear my reputation by saying I equated the the beheading of Elton John with "criticizing a politician currently running for VP".

In actual fact, I was thinking of the statements from the left from Sarah Bernhard recently which warned Sarah Palin not to come to NYC or her black brothers will gang rape her... But, rather than asking me to expand on what I was referring to, you tell me I owe Steve an apology.

Comment #251999 by AtheistJon on September 22, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Steve,

I'm sorry but as a right leaning atheist, and hence somebody who is more sympathetic to the Fanusi gang... It seems to me that it's actually you who is the bigot in this case.

As I see it in reading these posts you are acting like a Dawkins bully. You think that Fanusi should be censored and only left wing Palin haters should be allowed to post here. Who are you to decide who is allowed to blog on the RD site? If it's really the case that people like Fanusi aren't allowed to post here... then you should have a large disclaimer on the RD login site, saying something like: "Only Republican hating elitist left wing liberals allowed."

Reminds me of the thought police that you are accusing him of being.

Was it the Elton John comment that got you so steamed? Where's the outrage when the libs treat Sarah Palin the same way?

458. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252657 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 1:26 pm

AtheistJon

As Mrs. Claus would say to her husband, "Eat! Eat!"

http://www.newsweek.com/id/160085

Also, I suppose you will note Gerson's confirmation of Palin's religious background and the nature of her Church.

I have to add as my own editorial comment here: my severe irritation with this bullshit "elitist" talk all over the place. Are my views to be considered elitist? I am in serious pain right now and can't go to the doctor, because under the conditions of my husband's teaching contract our health insurance won't kick in until after two months of his employment!! I am so incredibly privileged here living in my apartment with no health insurance. Yay for me!

459. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252651 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 1:13 pm

So AtheistJon, it must have been a little embarrassing to go through that examination of your disgust at homosexuality and a relief when one of the most prominent gay men on the site backs up your right to feel the way you feel as long as you're not going to deny anyone their rights because of sexuality.

I am a little bothered though about your almost victim-y and hypocritical attitude regarding ad hominems. Way back in this thread in your comment 478, you referred to Obama and Biden as Islamic-sympathizing Marxists and didn't back it up. Also, in your comment 606, you called Steve Zara a "bigot" and a "Dawkins bully". You called people who criticized Palin "left wing Palin haters" and other people on this site "Republican hating elitist left wing liberals". You also equated the hypothetical beheading of Elton John for being gay with people criticizing a politician currently running for VP based on her political record, platform and religious affiliations and asked Steve why he wasn't outraged by that. Then in 627, you say, "I don't mind a heated argument, but stop right there in the Ad Hominems."

I know you're trying to make peace now and that's a good thing, but I wanted to point out two things: I think you owe Steve an apology and you have played a big hand in generating partisan hostilities in this thread. You made it clear at the get-go you had an ax to grind with "you leftists" on this site.

460. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252545 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 9:54 am

Fanusi - Well, you have me with the camel jockey thing. I knew that was an issue and my link to that site had some mention of that on the Dubai pages about the repatriation of some of the children used to jockey. However, skimming through the Atlantic Monthly article that was linked to your link, I can see that this Sport of Sheiks in its cultural context: a huge deal in Dubai, sport for the wealthiest people in the world. Speaking of the global wealthy elite, a racing camel costs a million dollars alone (not including board, feed & medical costs and breeding program expenses), but the jockeys are slaves? Wow. I haven't had a chance to look any further to see if the King of Dubai is bending to any international pressure about it.

edit mistakes

edit -- Fanusi, what are you talking about Kristallnacht in France right now? I have read that there have been some Muslim youths attacking Jewish youths and drawing swastikas on their bellies. I couldn't find any current article on a synagogue-burning when I looked last night.

461. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252544 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 9:48 am

Brandy - It may be a blow to him personally, but it isn't a blow to his credibility or political integrity if Buse kept his work life and his private life separate. (Sev, "compartmentalization" is exactly what I thought when I read Brandy's link.) Not that McCain has much political integrity now, in my personal opinion, it's just that it won't be seen that way by his supporters. They'll see him as having been betrayed by "a sicko" who got close to him.

462. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252532 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 9:27 am

hlmsbook -- agreed. Sensationalistic nonsense.

Brandy - Speaking of sensationalistic nonsense... I am not surprised by yet more hypocrisy revealed from a political campaign of any side, but this is Buse's personal hypocrisy as far as I can see and not a blow to McCain. In the Huffington Post article, I found the excited snickering over his having a sling in the closet and the promise of more titillating details to come from the ex-boyfriend to be pointless and gossipy.

sev - my personal feeling is that if the responses to the article are past the 20-page mark, then off-topic is okay. I don't know if anyone agrees with me though. :)

463. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252515 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 8:55 am

Welcome back, Your Catly Eminence! (He doesn't much care for the scent of spruce, I see. :D )

464. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252507 by hawt4dawk on September 23, 2008 at 8:20 am

Fanusi --

In reply to your comment about slavery in Dubai, I am wondering if there is a significant difference between the kind of human trafficking there and the kind in many, many other countries in the world, i.e., is it state sponsored or is it just crime?

Human Trafficking & Modern-day Slavery
The United States of America

The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency estimates that 50,000 people are trafficked into or transited through the U.S.A. annually as sex slaves, domestics, garment, and agricultural slaves.

The Dubai police have arrested 247 suspects, including 170 sex workers after raiding 22 locations on December 1, said Dubai police chief Lt. Gen. Dahi Khalfan Tamim. Most of the sex workers were from East Asia.

This operation is only part of a series of other raids and measures that we will undertake to eliminate human trafficking from Dubai, sources in Dubai police told The Hindu.

465. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252273 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Goldy -- cuties having fun. Dubai seems really pretty cool. Obviously, there is considerable hope.

edit -- Diacanu - oh, you and your wicked game! I feel better now though. Thanks. :) I mean, when you get down to it, no matter how bad it gets, you can always enjoy other people's hotness.

Styrer -- In defense of Ian, I personally like the band name Nuclear Pussy. It isn't Fanusi's style at all, but it has a ring to it.

Well, as Goldy usually says, TTFN! 'Nite, folks.

466. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252269 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 6:19 pm

Who did a bad thing? Me?

edit - or Sam Harris?

467. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252265 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 6:15 pm

Frankus -- and she can do all that in a pair of daisy dukes and high heels. That's what's really important. If she looked masculine and had all those masculine qualities everyone would be totally turned off.

edit for mistakes

468. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252261 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Sciros, you're being a little too insulting toward Nairb. He's a mathematician, I think. He is used to stronger statistical analyses. I've seen him work hard at providing evidence to Fanusi in past threads, which Fanusi was pretty respectful about and grateful for at the time.

469. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252256 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 5:39 pm

Sev - sorry to hear you're in a funk. Sorry about Wright, too. I was into early Pink Floyd (with Syd) for awhile. I hope you feel better soon.

Now I'm in a funk, because instead of writing my paper on how John Locke might have argued a California Supreme Court case, I've fiddled around with RDnet for too long today. (I'm taking a class in Western Civilization from 1500.)

... and even worse, while browsing for info on the burning of synagogues as being discussed by Nairb & Sciros, I came across a pro-Sarah Palin article (along with tons of glowing praise in the comments section) that just blew my mind. I had actually been looking into immigrating out of this country this weekend and then I felt cheered up today for some reason. Now I think too many voters here really do live in a fantasy land. My great-great-grandmother was a pioneer woman, a frontiers woman, too. She and my great-great grandfather and my great-grandfather aged 9 traveled in a covered wagon and lived in a sod house on the prairie till my great-great-grandfather could drag lumber from miles away to build a house... just like in Little House On the Prairie. She read the Bible and was devoutly religious and strong. I think of her, what I read from her diary, quite often with considerable admiration, but I certainly wouldn't want my great-great grandmother to be Vice President of this country. I don't understand this romantic infatuation and disconnect with reality as I read the comments underneath the linked article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/sarah_palin_and_the_archetype.html

**heavy sigh**

470. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252238 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Hi Sev, thanks! What happened to the royal kitty, Skylark?

471. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252235 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 4:43 pm

797. Comment #252229 by Titania

Thanks for that clarification, Titania. And the link. It's just sad that anyone would make such a mean comment about a kid like that. But didn't he also tell his wife, "Shut up, you cunt" right in front of a bunch of press and they didn't report that either.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_temper_boiled_over_in_92_0407.html

Sometimes when it seems I am failing in communicating with someone, I blame myself. But when I read your post, I realized my internal experience with AtheistJon was, "Didn't he read my post? Didn't he look at my link?" I forgot all the other reasonable stuff people posted, too. I forget that some people in here can be sneaky spies and trolls. The proof is in the pudding.

472. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252222 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 3:55 pm

Roots -

"Cunt," good old Anglo-Saxon word that it is (funny post, Goldy), is far harsher and has more connotations of sexual subjugation and abuse when used to slur a woman than the word "dick" has in relation to men, IMO. You can say what you want in a forum as long as you don't get kicked off and deleted for it. I'm just protesting. I find it to be pretty harsh.

Vaal - For my part, I wanted to dialogue with a conservative like AtheistJon about Palin, because I couldn't see how a thinking person with accurate information could support her regardless of which side of the political table they sit. I try to think through my positions, not sip from the big spoon.

473. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252203 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 3:27 pm

Roots --

Please don't bring up the word "cunt" in relation to a woman. That's offensive to me no matter who it's about. Thanks.

474. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252172 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Goldy, I said "responsible" and by that I meant to everyone in the nation, not just business and old oligarchy.

edited for: :)

475. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252165 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 2:49 pm

AtheistJon

To me, she seems like a well spoken, well educated woman. I guess leftists can't stand that a conservative woman would have such qualities.

476. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252159 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 2:47 pm

AtheistJon,

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/47530.php

The above link shows financial interests and holdings of major media outlets by major corporations who also donate huge amounts of money to your candidates. Left-wing liberal bias in the media is another oft-repeated and untrue bit of propaganda.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/05/23/mccain.health.records/


CNN says he's in excellent health,but since they're liberal-biased you probably don't want to listen to that, right?

But his memory problems, which could be a sign of serious arterial ill health or onset of senile dementia? You only have to look at all the mistakes he's making, the contradictions, the apparent flip-flops, the apparent elitism when he can't remember how many houses he has or what kind of car he drives.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/02/mccain-dodge-economics/

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/mccains-memory-problems-re-hou.php


Maybe you're too upset to listen. We'll talk another time maybe if that's the case. Redneck isn't racist. It's about cultural identity. I don't know what you're talking about Africa for. I must have missed something.

We're not talking about Barack Obama at the moment. This isn't a thread about Barack Obama and I'm not interested in letting you shift the argument. I don't have any idea what you are talking about in Point#3 about Obama and hoops.

477. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252115 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 2:18 pm

I'm defending her against a bunch of loser ad hominite leftists who can't mount an argument without calling people names like "redneck", "fundamentalist", etc...

478. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252109 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 2:07 pm

AtheistJon,

That's all the response you have to say to my posts? I reach out a hand to you and say we all care about this country where can we agree that there are serious problems with the person who is the topic of this thread and you snark at me? You don't understand much about redneck culture, do you? Have you seen all the "You know you're a redneck if..." stuff for sale? Little desk calendars in doctor's offices, etc.? No, I forgot, you're living abroad. Times have changed over here, pal, and I was pointing out that your taking offense of "redneck" was silly.

479. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252083 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 1:51 pm

Decius -- Yes, I know I rushed through that "disgust at the rich" comment, but I figured both you and Jon would know to which exchange between you I was referring. So I'll clarify that I don't have blanket "disgust at the rich" and I understand from your comments that it was the disparity at some having so much while others starve, suffer in illness, have degraded lives, etc., but there are reasons some people are called "filthy rich" and it does have to do with their greed and ill-gotten gains.

AtheistJon:
As for calling Sarah Palin a redneck, she is a redneck. Bristol's boyfriend and father of her baby wrote on his MySpace page that he is a redneck and proud of it. I think she is, too.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/09/is-sarah-palin.html

Why are you defending a politician like her? How could a serious atheist conservative with a good mind really support her? Don't you have any loyalty to your countrymen at large, including liberals, progressives, who also really care about this country and don't want it falling into incapable, self-serving, cruel or careless hands?

480. When Atheists Attack

Comment #252003 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 12:29 pm

AtheistJon,

Glad to see you're back, because I wrote the following for you in response to something you wrote to Decius wondering about his disgust at the rich.

Also. Annabanana, liked what you wrote about Palin on your blog. I could totally relate to your anger about her nomination as VP and wanted to add this to the discussion:

I guess the neocons thought the pseudo-redneck of GW Bush worked so well that the real thing might be even more viable. She is unqualified to lead this country and McCain is in bad condition, so her chance is rather larger than usual. Compare her record with what she says she has done. Her experience comes from being mayor of a tiny town of 6,000 or so (at the time she was mayor) and from being governor of one of the least populated states in the union. There are many cities in the U.S. with populations higher than the state of Alaska. Despite the lack of population, during her tenure as leader, she managed to get 8 times the amount of federal earmarks than the national average and then she turns around and portrays herself as someone against pork barrel spending. She is a liar and a fraud. Her record shows she has fired experienced people in office and replaced them with inexperienced people who must be loyal to her. That is not the behavior of a responsible elected official. That is the behavior of a power-hungry person using political office for personal gratificaiton. She is still under investigation in Alaska for abuse of power. People from her tiny little town have stepped forward to describe her as a vindictive, racist, arrogant woman as well as a terrible fiscal manager.

As for the Republicans and conservatives here, I feel sad for your side for a change, because your values are being badly betrayed. At least we progressives already know we're losing ground on what we value. Apart from the huge cultural wedge being unnecessarily hammered at on a daily basis, which I believe harms us as a nation and makes us believe we're further apart on issues than we really are, we're also in the process of becoming debt slaves to China and Saudi Arabia for the next several generations.

Many conservatives will be casting their votes in the belief that the maverick McCain of several years ago is the McCain of today. He is showing clear symptoms of senile memory loss and possibly early stages of senile dementia. This indicates serious arterial problems. He's been treated for melanoma something like seven times. The mainstream media (owned by General Electric and other huge corporations) has been covering for him. Alternative news sources have been covering the cover up. The people behind the McCain campaign are the not true conservatives, with an eye to reasonable spending and stabilization of society and strong defense, that you think they are. Those days are gone. Mainstream conservatives are being used by people who are channeling America's wealth (now our future wealth) into the hands of a global wealthy elite. They aren't progressives, but they are NOT true conservatives either. They represent a true financial elite, an elite with servants who iron the newspapers for them so they don't get ink on their hands. You don't know these people and you don't know how they live. They are rich beyond middle-class imagination. One can easily say they are "filthy rich" because they have used many immoral means of gaining wealth, not the least of which is tampering in politics and media control to an unprecedented degree in a free democratic Republic. They have poisoned people and the enviroment to keep every penny they can. They have used NAFTA and other policies and carefully crafted laws to exploit the poor and middle class in various countries. For instance, Walmart just recently was forced by the Mexican supreme court to actually pay its workers in Mexico in money instead of only in store credit. The Walton's consistently make the top of the lists in richest people in the world and they are trying to cheat people that they pay a couple of dollars an hour. I know many true conservatives, even religious ones, who are shocked by the choice of Palin for VP and very worried about the economic condition of this country. That relieves me somewhat, because it is the only responsible and, in my opinion, appropriate response if you actually care about the U.S. as a free nation.

481. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251994 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 12:15 pm

598. Comment #251988 by Sciros

No, Sciros, I am referring specifically to Fanusi's measures to counter radical Islam in Britain, which include deporting citizens who support Sharia to Saudi Arabia. Those ideas have are the same Steve objects to and what has caused a major ruckus on these threads. Sorry if my comment appeared to be generally "anti-Fanusi". I like Fanusi, generally, and I agree that Islam is a threat. I agree with your comments on this thread about the issue, particularly. I do find it odd that I've never seen Fanusi worry in the least about fundamentalists from other religions though.

edit - to refer to specific comment

482. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251982 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Thanks for the welcome, Decius. Apologies for my mistake. Madame Curie? Yours would be a class act. :)

483. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251978 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 11:58 am

Titania, you may be right. The "language" might be more telling than the style.

Fanusi, what happened? Was he near a car bomb or something? That's quite frightening.

Steve, please don't go away. Just don't engage with Fanusi if you've had enough. The dialogue between you has become bitter and useless, but I think it is clear he doesn't represent RD,net as so many people argue with him.

484. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251962 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 11:45 am

Thanks, Titania. :) I am high on looming disaster! Your link on nukes gave me a deep chill. I noticed they described Hiroshima as a military target, yet I saw all this melted schoolkid and civilian gear in the Hiroshima museum when I was there. They had a good presentation on how many nukes are still lying idle all over the world.

Do you suspect as I do that Decius is behind this Sarah Palin sock puppet? "She" can make red things blink. He he. Only Decius can do that. ^-^

485. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251949 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 11:23 am

Sarah, say what you really mean. Don't blink!

http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/09/05/alaskans-speak-in-a-frightened-whisper-palin-is-“racist-sexist-vindictive-and-mean”/

486. When Atheists Attack

Comment #251945 by hawt4dawk on September 22, 2008 at 11:20 am

Hi folks,

From Sam Harris:

Here, finally, was a performer who "being maternal, wounded, righteous and sexy"could stride past the frontal cortex of every American and plant a three-inch heel directly on that limbic circuit that ceaselessly intones "God and country."

487. What Binti Jua Knew

Comment #240104 by hawt4dawk on August 30, 2008 at 10:15 pm

SilentMike: Okay you don't agree human-style rights should be granted to animals. Given that I've realized that Peter Singer founded GAP along with someone else, I suppose it could be argued that that is precisely what it is about even though it's not in the language of the proposal itself. For me. that doesn't tank the idea. It's still quite interesting, but it's for the Spanish people to decide how this will be implemented in their nation anyway. If it comes up in the our own countries, we each get our vote. You don't agree that great apes should have rights as individuals nor have group rights and people can go to bullfights for all you care. Your underlying attitude seems to be a little bit of "tough cookies" for the animals. I don't like your opinion, but you're certainly entitled to it.

I emailed GAP shortly after this discussion began requesting further info on how the proposal might see legal implementation and practically affect apes, but I received no answer. So I haven't had that to offer.

Bonzai - I wonder why you think I didn't address Mike's points and you're not concerned with where he ignored mine. I agree that some of the language of the proposal is abstract and confusing. In general,I have found your posts to be pleasurably lucid, intelligent and interesting, so I would enjoy reading an elaboration on the ideas in your post, particularly regarding "sanctimonious humans who derive emotional satisfaction out of political grandstanding."

I find the general fearful defensiveness toward granting rights to animals in this thread to be disconcerting and discouraging. "Don't take away my bacon!" Well, fuck, eat your bacon, just stop allowing pigs to be tortured so the people who sell it to you can make the most profit. Well, too bad, the pigs don't have an opinion. That's immoral and I'm disgusted by this attitude. To me this is about compassion, not being sanctimonious. I'm going to assume you weren't referring to me. People who really spend time with animals and learn about what they experience at the hands of humans tend to be a lot more sympathetic than the ones who only relate to them through sport and food.

My grandmother recently passed away and I just don't have the emotional energy or patience now for continuing this discussion. If anybody wants to communicate with, I welcome your PMs and I am notified in my regular email when I have received them. I won't be following up on this thread. Take care.

488. Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts

Comment #239794 by hawt4dawk on August 30, 2008 at 10:45 am

Fanusi, please don't condescend to me about neocons. I believe we have discussed or at least referred to in discussion their remarkable sophistication at propaganda and their years-ahead planning. These are people who have integrated the strategies of Machiavelli and Dr. Goebbels into the age of multimedia. I will not be so easily diverted as that.

The neocons are playing a huge part in exacerbating the threat which the West faces from radical Islam. Yet you yourself are only attacking liberals who are concerned with civil liberties and portraying them as being weak (comparing them even to the passivity that allowed to Nazi atrocity). You don't attack the neocons. You don't attack paleoconservatives. Yet the neocons feed paleoconservatives meat from their leather-gloved hunter's hands, pat them on the head and then sick them on the liberals. Paleoconservatives don't understand, whereas the neoconservatives don't care, about the value of civil liberties. This focus on "liberal weakness" is highly suspect.

I disliked Steve calling you a fundamentalist and I dislike you calling Steve whiny.

I really like your style, generally, Fanusi and respect your intelligence. However, here you've made several comments that cause you to appear to be playing the martyr -- as if you are the only one concerned with jihadis. Several of your interlocutors have told you several times they agree with you about the threat, with many of your other ideas, and disagree with you particularly ON THE ONE POINT. If you are truly concerned with this threat, why not strengthen and refine those ideas for time?

edited- clarity

489. Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts

Comment #239539 by hawt4dawk on August 29, 2008 at 10:29 pm

Okay, one last post.

Titania, Thanks. You're back to being the b-dgy. :) I don't want you to stay up on my account. Just when you get a chance. I also would be interested in the books, so if you don't post it openly could you send the list over to me, too? I'd appreciate it.

'Night for real this time. :)

quick edit said the (rdnet) addict -- I think bomb-diggity means you're superb. It's kinda late-90s compliment prolly. I could have said the cat's pajamas, too. I like that 'cause it's more whimsical sounding.

490. Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts

Comment #239536 by hawt4dawk on August 29, 2008 at 10:21 pm

Titania - I take it back. You are not the bomb-diggity. See my post before Laurie's! ;)

Coco -- No, I dinnunt. (I took it back.) ;)

Okay, that's enough. I'm so tired I am starting to swear and tell Titania she's the bomb-diggity. **wracks brain for a Star Wars reference**
**gives up**

Uh, goodnight, dear folks. May the force be with you.

491. Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts

Comment #239532 by hawt4dawk on August 29, 2008 at 10:10 pm

Hi Laurie, Hi Coco, Hi Titania :)

L & C, Thanks for the positive feedback and agreement.

Laurie -- what about George Bush's goodbye to the G8 "Bye from the world's largest polluter!" And, true to form, it wasn't even accurate at the time (China's ahead now). I hate swearing on here, but: that fuck that fuck that total fuck!

Titania -- can I just say I think you're the bomb-diggity. :) I really enjoy your posts. If you have any interest at all, I was arguing on Binta Jui about great ape rights and was wondering "out loud" where you were in the hopes you could post an opinion. I know law is specialized, but I thought you might have some input on legal ramifications. It's sort of a backwater thread, I guess, since it isn't really about religion or general politics, but I was quite interested in the topic.

Laurie - your little Tia is a beauty. Cute story about the BLOODY chooks, too. Is 'bloody' not a word for little kids? Or does it matter? Oh, what time zone are you in within Australia. Do people still say Oz?

492. Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts

Comment #239514 by hawt4dawk on August 29, 2008 at 8:13 pm

What's are these Fanusi comments about reason not being enough and a "suicide pill"? Does that come from Lee Harris' book [i]The Suicide of Reason: Radical Islam's Threat to the West.[/i] I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's review of the book on American Enterprise Institute (neocon thinktank) website. They are promoting it, I believe.

It is the neoconservatives who represent the biggest threat to our actual ideals. They are the ones supported by the oil industry with access to massive amounts of that money, which they use to pour out rivers of propaganda trying to blame liberalism for Islamic hatred, trying to show liberal ideals as the vulnerable point, which will cause the West fall to the forces of radical Islam. They are the ones courting religious favor in the U.S. They are supporting misinformation about climate change in order to maintain the status quo of oil dependence. They are the ones diverting our human and economic resources to wars, which cannot be won, which create more enemies, which consume vast quantities of oil and, thus, they pour more wealth into the hands of oppressive Islamic regimes, who fund the terrorists and keep the whole cycle going. Neocons, not liberals, are our weak point, they are a threat to our whole way of life, because they are in lockstep with all of the enemies of reason in a cynical and immoral pursuit of power.

edited - minor corrections for clarification

493. What Binti Jua Knew

Comment #239456 by hawt4dawk on August 29, 2008 at 4:09 pm

You misread me in your last post. I understand that I wrote a lot and maybe you skimmed through, but I said:

I have suggested they have rights because they are individuals and because they have sufficient self-consciousness to suffer psychologically and they experience pain and because the unjust, callous, cruel way many of them are treated when they are in contact with humans.

Here are some links to scientific evidence to support my assertions. They are abstracts and I don't have access to the full reports.

Here are some links to scientific evidence to support my assertions.

These don't seem to have anything to do with group rights.

494. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238856 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:45 pm

Hey -- Laurie! Good morning! Aren't these time differences a pain? Nothing's ever happening when I get up and have my coffee and am all primed for a chat!

I haven't been to Australia, but I had a rather deep fascination with the country for awhile. I'd love to visit. Still have friends there, including the old boyfriend. Good people! Laid back, no tall poppies and all that. :) It's good night for me, I'm afraid. As I said, Doctor Who time with the dear ones. I'll catch up on your posts tomorrow.

495. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238855 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:42 pm

TWP -- if you can find a way to live abroad, definitely, definitely. You can always move to CA later. There's nothing like living abroad. I can't recommend it highly enough!:) Thanks! I'll be sure to look you up if I get back there.

496. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238850 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Ah, that RDnet link about Judaism and little boys just appeared again. Has anyone read the material on strugglesforexistence.com?

I must go soon. A date for family time with Doctor Who. :) 'Night all!

edit (ahem) Islam, Muslim birthrate, um, solutions to extremism, threat assessments... I read the article that Nairb posted, but I didn't know what the Green foot ball thing was referring to. Any ideas?

497. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238844 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:34 pm

TWP -- I heartily recommend Northern, CA to you though. I lived in both Davis, CA and Los Angeles. I always wanted to move to the Bay Area. I went up for almost all my long weekends to go hiking with friends and hang out in SF.

L.A.'s better than most people think if you live in a good area, but I left because I felt like my whole life was going to be lived inside my car and I needed more nature. Plus, because so many people are trying to make it in the entertainment industry, there is the shallowness factor. The food is beyond compare, IMO.

edit to delete personal info
Let me know if you come ever to Boston and maybe I can go out to meet you. Depends on my family responsibilities.

Kkelly -- I don't know about wilder either, but I realized when I left CA that dirty-minded joking and swearing is far more "natural" than in other U.S. places. Wouldn't you agree? I remember watching "Six Feet Under" and getting all nostalgic. Ha ha.

498. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238829 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:17 pm

TWP - Massachusetts. I love it so far!

499. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238828 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:14 pm

Goldy, oh, sorry I didn't know you were seriously having problems with that ear. :( Yes, the world gets wonky when the ears are funny. Hope you avoid colds all the rest of the winter!

Kkelly, Agreed. I was just joking. You know I'm not freaked out by your weird comments. Did you read the post where I suggested you were from California? That was a long time ago. I know where you're from originally, but I thought I'd read validation of my guess somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong.

500. Channel 4 announces return of Undercover Mosque

Comment #238821 by hawt4dawk on August 28, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Decius! Awesome. Thanks for sharing those. How happy a thing. :)

edit -- TWP, I've been to Dallas twice!

edit -- once with Australians no less. My Australian boyfriend had a brother who herded cattle with a helicopter and heli-cowboys were having a convention there. :D