451. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #144117 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 6:11 am

For me he is comfortable with torture

I don't know that that is what Sam Harris is saying. However, I wonder how many of us, sat here in our comfortable homes at a keyboard, would be capable of torture in dire circumstances.

If I had hold of a kidnapper who had my daughter entrapped where she would run out of air in 24 hours, then yes, absolutely, I would be more than capable of torture to get her release. I think in all honesty, it would be the same for practically anybody.

452. The atheist delusion

Comment #144113 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 5:49 am

The incomprehensibility of the divine

Cracking! It is incomprehensible because it doesn't exit.

453. Richard Dawkins on The Alan Colmes Show

Comment #144101 by Vaal on March 15, 2008 at 5:18 am

Man. Those adverts!! Thank Thor for the BBC.

I think Richard has got to be careful implying that intelligent people don't believe in God, as he is at risk of alienating opinion, and coming across as an intellectual snob.

Several of my friends who are very intelligent, and have top degrees are theists. They just seem to have a mental block when you come to criticizing their religion. I don't know why. It would present an interesting psychological study.

They argue to a point and realize that their description of God becomes woollier and woollier, until they can't really define him at all. Then they come back to "That's not my God".

Fortunately, we just agree to disagree and none of them threaten me with murder as an Infidel. We just go out and have a drink and a laugh. I think the best we can do is try and persuade, not confront and hope that the seed that is laid in their minds grows until they work it out themselves. Otherwise they will just hunker deeper into their trenches, ignoring the incandescent shells of rationality.

Right off to watch the rugger. Come on England!

454. I don't believe in atheists

Comment #143619 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 8:54 am

So, he is what? A fundamentalist wanker?

455. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143584 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 8:13 am

How about thinking is a sin? At least Wooter would be in the clear.

456. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143491 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:47 am

51. Comment #143486 by Ygern

This seems to be the trend since Ratzinger was elected Pope. I've never seen so many Catholic bishops falling over themselves to 'witness to' & promote bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, censorship, dubiously unsafe sex & hate-mongering.

I would say that Darth Ratty has looked at the Islamic model, and feels that his doctrine is missing out, and so is trying the same tactics.

I still reckon they should have elected Father McQuire to be Pope. Pope Dougal, what a show that would be!

457. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143477 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:33 am

Of course he is deluded. Isn't that a sine qua non for becoming a bishop.

I would have thought it a job requirement.

458. Fleabytes

Comment #143473 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 6:29 am

Do you know, I think Clearthinker isn't a theist at all, but just a wind up merchant who likes to come on to the board, write some cobblers, and then just sits back and watch the board rev up and chuckles to himself.

459. Fleabytes

Comment #143433 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:39 am

#143420 by Sargeist

In a way, despite the obvious Euthyphro problem, I can see the attraction of big-beardy-morals, handed down from the sky

Who. Thor, Odin, Zeus?

460. Fleabytes

Comment #143416 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:20 am

How about Oxford. We could do the Inspector Morse tour of the local pubs. Perhaps RD would care to have a jar with us. Oh, Veronique is over from May as well.

461. Fleabytes

Comment #143401 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 5:08 am

#143396 by clearthinker

Blind faith is by definition stupid. Real faith is faith based upon knowledge and that knowledge must always be open to challenge

Anyone see the irony in that?

462. Fleabytes

Comment #143389 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:45 am

Starksy and Hutch, no consequence. Blasphemy!!

463. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143387 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:42 am

So, if you are gay and an Infidel, do you get killed twice?

464. Fleabytes

Comment #143382 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:23 am

Very good Steve. Doesn't she have no hair now? Maybe it is a wig?

It is David Soul in one of his first roles on TV, in the Star Trek episode "The Apple", where Kirk destroys their religion, by killing off the 10,000 year old machine they have been worshipping, Vaal.

Guess Gene Roddenberry was an atheist too!

465. Fleabytes

Comment #143376 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 4:08 am

Notice that DR is the opposite of RD. Very fitting.

Anyone recognise who my Avatar is?

466. Fleabytes

Comment #143358 by Vaal on March 14, 2008 at 3:31 am

I know that Dawkins does not like to debate (and as he generally does not come of well, I can understand why)

Another case of wishful thinking by wea flea. Can he point to one example of RD coming off poorly in a debate. I would be interested to see that. Of course, I suppose from his point of view, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I have yet to see a single debate with a religite, where they have come across as less than foolish, from the bumblings of McGrath to the odious rantings of D'Sousa. That is what happens when you have a non argument, and in some ways I agree with RD, in that debate with religites gives them an equal platform, and unwarranted legitimacy.

467. Fleabytes

Comment #143154 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Quetzalcoatl

That would be an ecumenical matter.

468. Fleabytes

Comment #143150 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Quetzalcoatl

Personally, I'd find it funny if the first thing aliens said to us was "Jesus who? Let us tell you about the All-Powerful Xrglyuf, the Swarm-Father and creator of all life in the Universe

That would be a metaphor for Jesus!

469. Fleabytes

Comment #143137 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Steve,

It is called moving the goalposts. The religites do it all the time. From Galileo to Einstein to Steven Hawkings, ad infinitum.

When they find life outside the Earth, then it will be that God created life in the Universe, not just the Earth etc etc.

470. Deadly Sins 101

Comment #143082 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 12:22 pm

You couldn't make it up. Oh, sorry, they have!

471. Ban anti-Catholic books in schools, says bishop

Comment #143069 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Irate_atheist

Are you going to reply, or shall I?

472. Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church

Comment #143053 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 11:51 am

As Steve says, just let the Church carry on with this sort of nonsense. It is actually far better than any criticism that we can level at them, as it shows them for the bigots they are and the small mindedness of their beliefs.

It is cods wallop like this that empties the churches, particularly with the young, as the zeitgeist has moved on.

473. Fleabytes

Comment #143049 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 11:46 am

Irate_atheist

So, David, why do you not believe in Zeus? Or Thor? Or Allah? Or Baal? Or Ganesha?

Interesting point. I have always wondered, if you believe that one God exists, then why not ten, or a hundred, or an infinite number of Gods. Maybe all quark particles are Gods? What does that make an anti-quark?

Does David believe more devoutly than an Aztec who is sacrificing his child to the Sun God? Would he sacrifice his child to placate his God? What would that Aztec father think of David. Would he put him to death as a blasphemer or heretic? Who is the true believer?

My biggest question is Why believe in a God at all. What is God? In the Ice ages, they revered the animals they hunted, as they depended on them for there very existence. You can see ample evidence of this in the caves at Lascaux, where the Shamans painted them in reverence over 16,000 years ago.

The Egyptians, the Aztecs, all depended on the harvests and attributed the seasons, the weather to their Gods. If they had a bad harvest then they had sinned against the Gods. What was the benefit to the the Priests? They had a free lunch and power over their communities, as what more power could they have than to threaten the unruly with eternal damnation.

What of people who lived by a volcano that erupts once every 1000 years. They would worship the volcano as a God, and should the volcano erupt, then the people had sinned. Of course, the volcano would just erupt when its magma chamber filled, as it had for millennia before the humans ever existed. Nature exists in supreme indifference to mankind, just as it did to the dinosaurs.

If God did exist, then why would he need to be worshiped? Why should he care? Would he really want to see people groveling prostrate to him. That sounds more like a human characteristic. In fact, David has got it nearly right, man created God in his own image, with all his nasty character traits.

Why would you need to feel loved by your supernatural being? It sounds more than a little insecure. What is the morality in worshiping a God who would incinerate you for eternity, should you not believe in him. That is the action of an evil vindictive psychopath, not a loving God. Not very rational, is it David?

474. Fleabytes

Comment #142950 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 8:51 am

Now, if we had had an email from GOD on post 5000, saying "I EXIST", I would have been impressed! HaHa!

Maybe he is waiting for post 10,000!

475. Fleabytes

Comment #142926 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 8:03 am

So, after 5000 posts, anybody been persuaded by David's arguments for the existence of a personal supernatural deity, or has it just been more of the same?

I think personally when he issued the quote below, that his world view was confirmed as abject intellectual surrender.

Yes I am. I am totally amazed at the Universe. So much so that I cannot conceive of it as being self-existent, or having come from no where and nothing. Therefore I worship its Creator.

No more to be said.

476. Two More Fleas

Comment #142462 by Vaal on March 12, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Has anyone provided a proof of God's inexistence

What!!!?? Bl*dy idiot. That is the start to his book? Zeus help us. Those straw men are charging off the cliffs like a herd of lemmings.

Have any of these books got anything new to add, or is it just complete bollocks. Excuse the French. Anyone getting bored with this incessant dross?

477. Fleabytes

Comment #142273 by Vaal on March 12, 2008 at 8:39 am

Nice case of animal intelligence, communication and empathy shown on this BBC report of Whales being rescued by a dolphin in NZ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7291501.stm

There was also a very interesting recent article about a group of young swimmers being protected by a pod of dolphins from a Great White shark. Now you wouldn't expect that to be in the interests of the dolphins to put themselves in mortal danger for another species. Obviously they didn't read any scripture, or maybe they did. :-) Moses the dolphin returning from Mount Pico to find the other dolphins worshiping a golden lobster?

478. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141708 by Vaal on March 11, 2008 at 5:44 am

I presume his Royal Highness, Darth Ratzinger, and his retinue, will be providing an example to all us sinners by travelling by bicycle and sailing ship to protect the environment?

479. Fleabytes

Comment #141479 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Man. Stop it!!!

480. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141476 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:33 pm

#141473 by noodly_noodleson

The test gave me a 'gluttonous' level 3. So it's sending me to hell and calling me fat??

Still, you will be able to burn it off :-))

481. Fleabytes

Comment #141467 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Absolutely class Cartomancer. Nearly fell off my chair laughing!!

482. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141455 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:59 pm

#141453 by noodly_noodleson

Vaal, will that be your ten percent tithing?

Knock it up to 20%. Will add the second middle finger. :-)

Hmmmm, yes, perhaps the girl is descended from Jesus?! I see where you are going. Could be a film to be made...

483. Should Galileo's tomb be opened for DNA tests?

Comment #141449 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:46 pm

That's sorted. I shall be leaving my middle finger to the Church.

484. Seven new deadly sins: are you guilty?

Comment #141441 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 12:28 pm

My Goodness. The hypocrisy is breathtaking!

How about some new sins..

1) Their myopic policies creating an aids epidemic in Africa on the scale of the holocaust.

2) Actively encouraging the exponential and unsustainable population growth that absolutely DOES breed environmental destruction and poverty. When is enough Darth? One hundred billion, two hundred billion?

3) The suppression of knowledge for nearly 2 millennium? How long did it take the "infallible" Church to apologise to Galileo for actually reporting the truth? 300 years? Think the hotline to God is a bit faulty.

4) Terrorising Children by threatening them with eternal damnation and torment by their "loving God", who is so paranoid and desperate that he will incinerate you for eternity, should you not worship him. Sound like a human trait perchance?

5) Making up new dogma's as you go along?

6) Disseminating untruths as truths in the insidious propaganda war against knowledge.

7) Proselytizing the young before the age of 14.

8) The obsession of the holy with sex.

I am sure there are many other "sins" that more able people can fill in...

485. Oklahoma: One Step from Doom

Comment #141086 by Vaal on March 10, 2008 at 2:39 am

The bill itself says that a student cannot be graded down if they say that what they are being taught interferes with their religious beliefs.

WHAT!!!!?? How about the Earth being carried on the back of an elephant? Talk about Dumb and Dumber, and this from the nation who put a man on the Moon, and who have probes on Mars and Titan. I am flabbergasted. This sort of nonsense should be fought tooth and nail, or ignorance will become the norm.

I would be very interested in the results of a science test on the cretins who propose this legislation. I expect that they would be shown as utter science dunces. Would they even know that the sun is a star? Somehow I doubt it.

486. Fleabytes

Comment #140945 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 6:55 am

Hilberts hotel? Had to look that up. See, learn something new every time I come on to this site.

Thought for a moment MPhil was referring to the hotel at the end of the Universe in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

487. Fleabytes

Comment #140929 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 5:53 am

Congratulations to Wales for the triple crown. I am still suffering from the appalling England performance against the Scots, although in fairness, the Scot's aren't a bad team.

You guys are definitely going for breaking 5000 posts, aren't you? ;-)

Has Opaquethinker given up, or are we destined for another tidal wave of inanity?

488. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140921 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 5:40 am

Not quite sure of the law there epeeist. Surely you can still become a Lord if you are a British citizen, or did Hitchen's give up his British citizenship? Can you not have joint citizenship?

Actually, a very good candidate for the house of Lords would be David Attenborough, particularly when an astonishing 87 of the myopic Lords voted to retain this obscene law. If anybody deserved a title of being a Lord, it would be him.

489. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140893 by Vaal on March 9, 2008 at 4:07 am

Strangely enough I have been in meetings at work where the subject is just as tedious as any debate at the house of Commons/Lords. However, had I been caught nodding off, then I would have been given the sack. Perhaps those of our elected and paid representatives in the house of Commons caught resting their eyelids should be given the same courtesy.

The house of Lords seems to be full of people who seem to resemble the old fogies, Statler and Waldorf, from the muppets, so they have a bit more excuse to nod off, at their extreme age. Mind you, it is probably not helped by a cigar and a brandy at the bar, before having a well deserved kip in the chamber!

490. When blasphemy bit the dust

Comment #140633 by Vaal on March 8, 2008 at 5:04 am

Lord Elystan-Morgan quoted approvingly from The God Delusion, in which Dawkins describes the Christian God as "a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Lord Elystan-Morgan did not believe that Dawkins should be prosecuted for this statement.

Actually, anybody who was read the Old Testament would regard RD's description of God as indisputable. It is all there in black and white, for anyone to read. I fail to see how it would be blasphemy as that is exactly what he was.

Comment #140531 by Prom_STar
I think RD was misquoted. Wasn't he referring to the Old Testament (pre-Christian) god?

I think yes, but the Christian God is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New.

Interestingly, the early Christian Church was nearly driven to schism by the complete transformation of God's personality in the New Testament. There was a split ("splitters") by a group believing in Marcionism, which declared the Christian God was an entirely new and different God from the Jewish God, and characterized Yahweh as a "bungling or malicious demiurge". Marcion had a good deal of support, and had history gone his way, then the Christians would now be worshiping
a new God. Would he have been called Marcus? Eventually he was declared a heretic and excommunicated (a good case of history again being written by the winners).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion

It wasn't till the Islamic God, Allah, reappeared before he reverted back to the tyrannical, psychotic desert God of the Old Testament (classic case of plagiarism).

Still, I raise a glass to the abolition of this anachronistic asinine non law, and sincerely hope, but unfortunately doubt, that it will be adopted throughout the rest of the world in my lifetime.

491. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #140174 by Vaal on March 7, 2008 at 3:12 am

I am surprised they debate anything in the house of Lords. Whenever I see it on TV, they are mostly having a kip (sleeping, for our American friends). In fact, I am sure there were a couple of dead ones in the corner. Could have sworn I saw a skull or two! Probably been there since the civil war.

492. Crossing the Divide

Comment #140167 by Vaal on March 7, 2008 at 3:01 am

I would definitely have had a little chat to him aside after the ceremony. Cheeky g*t!

493. Crossing the Divide

Comment #140164 by Vaal on March 7, 2008 at 2:56 am

Comment #140122 by epeeist

My father's family are Catholics, but my father was a staunch Marxist of the Trotskyist persuasion. When he died we had a Catholic funeral, purely for the benefit of the family, it wasn't something he would have wanted.

It didn't stop the priest at the funeral attacking the idea of Communism and claiming that my father had come back to the fold.

Really? Did you say anything to him about it? I would have been enraged if a witchdoctor had hijacked my funeral like that. It makes you almost wish that you could return as "Carrie" did, and grab his foot from the grave!

494. What's the Point of the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Comment #139789 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 1:48 pm

D'Arcy

Nah, they are both propping up the fashion industry, otherwise they would be wearing the emperors clothes. Still, that would definitely make Royal Ascot far more interesting, although it probably wouldn't do the poor Archbishop any favors. :-)

495. Crossing the Divide

Comment #139773 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 1:30 pm

"He has flirted with atheism but found it too depressing."

Really? For such an intelligent man, I find that comment baffling, especially considering his career. I would say just the opposite. The religious world is a small narcissistic world with narrow horizons, poor answers and displaying incomprehensible arrogance. To be free of that appalling and limited dogma is empowering and illuminating.

As Carl Sagan says so eloquently..

In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, "This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed"? Instead they say, "No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way."

496. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #139731 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Lord Elton: I was not going to take part until the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, rose and trailed the name of Dawkins and The God Delusion.
I recommend that he reads a better and more recent book, The Dawkins Delusion?

Hmmm, so Lord Elton, the Dawkins Delusion is a "better" book, and what is the relevance of it being more recent? How would it be less recent considering the title. One doubts quite sincerely if he ever read the God delusion.

Perhaps he should read Paula's devastating rebuttal of the flea books?

How does one become a Lord? Can we recommend Paula or RD? Actually, I think Hitchens would be a GREAT Lord. Imagine him ruffling the feathers of all those pompous oafs.

The Bishops Bench, is that the dunce bench? Maybe that is why they wear those hats.

Good news that this asinine non law is finally being consigned to the dustbin of history, after centuries of sadistic homicidal abuse.

What worries me is why they are even debating it in the 21st Century and that there is ANYONE with any grey matter between their ears who could possibly support it?

497. Lords Approve Abolition Of Blasphemy

Comment #139712 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 12:19 pm

YO!!!

498. Fleabytes

Comment #139655 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 10:45 am

This thread still going on? Must be a record!

When was the last time Opaquethinker was on?

499. What's the Point of the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Comment #139652 by Vaal on March 6, 2008 at 10:40 am

Who else would wear that ridiculous attire and those preposterous hats?

I always think that Religious leaders wear these comical costumes as a sign of a great practical joke, that nobody else can see through. They keep wondering how long they can pull it off for, before people get the joke.

500. Bulldozers tear down giant religious teapot

Comment #138592 by Vaal on March 4, 2008 at 3:30 pm

Haji Mohammed bin Junoh, the imam of the largest mosque in the area, said: "Pin is a deviationist. It is possible that he is dealing with Satan."

Does a 21st Century sentient being, with all his faculties intact actually believe that? Religion really is a mental illness. He should be wheeled off in a straitjacket, gibbering that sort of nonsense. Words fail me!