501. Fleabytes

Comment #134807 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 8:21 am

Quetz:

I'll match your aardvark, and raise you one of these:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7264856.stm

I won't be addressing any of David's blatant lies, as others possess (and have used) far more descriptive adjectives in their vocabulary with which to do so.

Lying for jesus, yet again.

502. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #134680 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 5:12 am

Nothing wrong with that :)

Why be embarassed about knowledge?

503. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #134662 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 4:43 am

The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy has this to say about the Alpa Centauri Bioinformatics company:

"The corporation's complaints department now covers all the major land masses of the first three planets in the Centaurus star system"

504. Are they running for President or Pastor-in-Chief?

Comment #134637 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 4:06 am

clodhopper, you owe me a mouthful of coffee and a new keyboard.

505. Evolving Mistakes

Comment #134627 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 3:56 am

JuxtaMonkey, that was briliant. thank you so much.

Every day I learn something on this site, from so many different people.

506. Fleabytes

Comment #134609 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 3:31 am

Bonzai #1332:

That would be Poe's law.

Steve #1358

sub-woofer

Isn't that technically known as a "tweeter?"

507. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #134596 by Geoff on February 28, 2008 at 3:11 am

Goldy:

(try it with spaghetti - swing various lengths of the boiled noodles above your head)

508. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #134311 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 3:11 pm

Quetz: yeah, I remember that one, must have been about 5 or 6 years ago?

Horizon was good in those days, but seems to have dumbed down a lot recently (although there was a good interview with Steven Hawking a couple of years ago that I enjoyed).

509. The Encyclopedia of Life, No Bookshelf Required

Comment #134291 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 2:42 pm

gimli:

It may be true that the alleged mechanism of evolution ie selection and mutation is not applicable to origin of life. However, the main reason for seperating the two is because there are so many problems with the chance origin of life the average evolutionist prefers to leave it on one side if only for polemic purposes.

510. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #134268 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Was it just me, or did she seem to talk much more slowly, with lots of pauses, when addressing her listeners than when she was talking to Richard?

...The...God...De..lu...sion...

And Richard to the Stalin guy:

"What on Earth are you talking about? I've just given you the answer!"

Priceless!

511. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #134217 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 12:24 pm

al-rawandi (and others):

I'm struggling to keep up with all these threads (partly due to "getting out more"...), but if I may return briefly to the F=ma sub-topic:

If we ever discover the missing "dark matter", and find it to be accelerating, would we have found the dark side of the force?

512. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #134209 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 12:07 pm

I don't recall that one, but it's been a long time since I read any, and I mostly stuck with the Cthulhu/Dagon ones.

513. The Encyclopedia of Life, No Bookshelf Required

Comment #134208 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Lest we forget, god is allegedly creating 1,000,000 new species every second*, so it's gonna take a while to finish this encyclopaedia...

(*the holy book of wooter, Ch3 v24)

514. The Encyclopedia of Life, No Bookshelf Required

Comment #134176 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 11:04 am

I've still never seen them define "created kinds" with any degree of sense. Are they still trying to make "Baraminology" work?

515. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #134125 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 9:52 am

I take a little time off for beer, sleep & work (not necessarily all at the same time), and come back to a theological dispute!

OK:

Steve: off-topic? Us? Shirley Knott. There is a clear topical line of descent from the common ancestor: "Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence", through miracles & Harriers to Pegasus and the Quetzcthulkey Trinity. The thread is evolving, that's all.


al-rawandi: Metallica, no, not really my preferred genre of music; the closest would probably be Led Zep, Meatloaf or Black Sabbath. My musical taste is very broad, though - folk, country, rock, classical, pretty much anything but "rap".

al & 5: I love Lovecraft! (yep, intentional, sorry...)
I still remember I prize day at school (aged about 14, I think) when the prizewinners got a book token, redeemed it for their preferred book, and had the prize given out by our local vicar.
Everyone else was choosing textbooks, or Shakespeare/Wordsworth/whatever; I got a Lovecraft anthology. The look on his face when he handed it to me was, as they say, priceless.

I'm a big Poe fan, too. Equally cheerful.

516. Fleabytes

Comment #134114 by Geoff on February 27, 2008 at 9:16 am

Billy: I think the "church" comment referred to your avatar...

517. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133623 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 12:47 pm

5:
Pinball Wizard?

518. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133614 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Is that "Cthullu" on your avatar?

519. The Encyclopedia of Life, No Bookshelf Required

Comment #133602 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Yeah, I saw this on the BBC website earlier today. Wonderful idea!

520. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133595 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Steve, that's exactly how I feel! Except that in addition, I've personally had several "AHA moments" since joining this site!

521. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133594 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 12:15 pm

al-rawandi:

You've just hit one of my (many) buttons!

My BSc. (wayyyy back, around the time the Harrier first entered squadron service!) is in aeronautical engineering, and my boyhood ambition was to be a fighter pilot (I failed the eyesight medical; still the greatest disappointment in my life)!

I still go to air shows. And I still cry.

522. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133568 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 11:27 am

al-rawandi:
Apologies, I should have said "Rolls-Royce Pegasus" (but it didn't sound as good).
That's the RAF & RN versions: I believe the version of the Harrier that is used by the U.S.M.C. uses Pratt & Whitney engines, not sure.

523. Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning

Comment #133560 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 11:18 am

irate_atheist #78

I think you're onto something there; a bit like the "fork in the road" logic puzzle.

524. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133553 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 11:07 am

Vaal #173:

Wrong god; the Harrier is powered by Pegasus engines, that would presumably be evidence for the Greek pantheon.

525. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #133547 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 10:59 am

Reverend: I'm still trying to get my head around the "origami speech"

...no matter what, there is always someone smarter, tougher, stronger, faster, sneakier, meaner and more skilled out there, enter each fight with the assumption that you are facing that person.

I also teach origami, and strangely enough give the same speech there.

526. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #133540 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 10:32 am

wooter:

I am trying to be scientific and logical with you...

527. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133537 by Geoff on February 26, 2008 at 10:23 am

annabanana #211: We keep inviting you to move to the UK! Much better tea. And fewer fucktards, I think.

@Quetz: sorry!

528. Fleabytes

Comment #133111 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Yeah, well, we could just pray for him, I suppose...

529. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #133098 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 3:37 pm

annabanana:

I think he's been watching "Expelled".

Anyway, don't worry, wooter (or sneezy) will no doubt be back with something even more ludicrous before long.

530. Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning

Comment #133084 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 3:19 pm

Colwyn, that was just cruel. Now I gotta dig out my old Nintendo 64!

531. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133044 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 2:41 pm

*Generally* speaking, there seems to be a shared sense of morality that transcends cultures and civilizations. I believe this comes to us through a concept commonly referred to as "natural law." And for the record, I think it comes from God.

532. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #133032 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Wyattroberts:

Diacanu (in his own inimitable style!) and others have addressed many of your points already; I'd just like to point out that Richard makes it very clear at the start of TGD which "type" of believer (and which version of god) he is adressing.

It's often been said on here that there are as many "types" of Christianity as there are Christians - essentially the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Alaster McGrath does it particularly often: "that's not my religion...".

That's why Richard goes to the fundamental beliefs (virgin birth, resurrection etc) - the ones that, essentially, define a Christian. He was recently in a radio debate with one such, and she consistently dodged the question "do you believe in the virgin birth". If one can't get straight answers to questions like those, it seems pointless to go into the minutiae of theological interpretations.

533. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #133006 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Quetzalcoatl:

...we could rule the world

534. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132979 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 1:39 pm

wyattroberts:

That's actually a slightly more complex issue than it appears. On the surface, your point does have validity, but there are a couple of aspects that arise.

A similar complaint is often addressed to Richard (and the other atheist authors), that they haven't addressed all the finer aspects of theology. That is very well dealt with by P.Z. Myers in his "Courtier's reply".

Closer to your argument, it's simply "so many books; so little time". From our experience, they all say much the same thing (see Paula's excellent reviews on the "fleabyte" thread). We do compare notes, too. Between us, we've read pretty much all of them - there are several long discussions of them all in the forum section. I've personally read, amongst many others, both McGrath's "flea" books (and older ones such as "Mere Christianity"). If anything new were to be found in any of them, the points would be discussed on here.

A final point; it's up to any author (on any subject, whether fiction or non-fiction) to promote his book. As far as I'm concerned, Aikman hasn't persuaded me that it's worth the money or the time. That's nothing to do with his views; I'd probably say the same about, say, the latest Barbara Cartland book, for example.

535. Richard Dawkins on five of his favorite books

Comment #132969 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 1:24 pm

47. Comment #132671 by gcujimmy

Hi all this is my first post, actually this is the first thread I haven't felt daunted by. I have been pretty much lurking here for the last couple of weeks since reading TGD and am totally in awe of the level of discussion on this site.I feel I have learned so much already and, who knows, Some day I may pluck up the nerve to post on one of the more serious threads.

536. Add another flea to the list...

Comment #132961 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 1:02 pm

al-rawandi:

Re Harun Yahya, you forgot to mention the fishing lures!

537. Church is paying a high price for its celibacy rule

Comment #132791 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:59 am

Steve:

http://www.libchrist.com/bible/catholiccelibacy.html

(a christian site, BTW)

538. The Salamander's Tale

Comment #132787 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:57 am

wooter:

Go away and play somewhere else.

( I was originally going to post something more Diacanu-esque)

539. Church is paying a high price for its celibacy rule

Comment #132753 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:21 am

Good news for the future choirboys.

540. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #132748 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:19 am

117. Comment #132721 by sven_der_sar

Yeah; What I had in mind was rather using their own [what passes for] evidence against them.

For the real bible literacists for example, just asking them questions based on their scripture: not how it compares to the real world but to other parts of scripture. Genesis 1 & 2 is a good example, or Matthew & Luke, or...so many! Maybe if enough seeds of doubt are sown about the reliability of the bible...

I can't say I'm that optimistic, just that the evidence tactic doesn't seem to be working, and perhaps never will, if we take that Augustine quote at face value.

541. Fleabytes

Comment #132737 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 7:10 am

I want the handbook! And a membership card! How do I apply? I want to be able to call myself a "card-carrying atheist"! Are the exams really hard? I haven't sat an exam in sooo long.

Skimmed most of the rest, but:

Diacanu (whatever #post it was, you know the one)
Awesome. Even by your always high standards of invective, that was a pleasure to read.

David: still no evidence, then?

542. Evidence can't shake your faith if your faith excludes it as evidence

Comment #132704 by Geoff on February 25, 2008 at 6:31 am

Everyone's already said pretty much all that I would have said about the content of the article, but it does bring up another issue.

If he accurately describes the theists' mindset (and we've debated enough of them to accept that description as accurate), are we wasting our time using evidence to try and get them to think?

Should we be using different tactics?

Augustine's first principle of sound interpretation is that an interpretation is sound if it confirms the truth of the Christian faith.

543. Fleabytes

Comment #132382 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 5:11 pm

wooter said:

The flea depraved scales to write , Upon from nichil novel dixit , Donation us , unskilled bard , Sophism , not truthfulness. To believe himself redarguisse , Argumentation she holy mass , But drives him moving through defendant , Upon fatuitate her : Her free is upon territory , Nugatoris to hominem , Odit too much Dawkins our , Vast system bolt. Why so thorough consideration not to know , If not bear shrine Virus virulens upon mind , He the making suddenly , Presumption sumere , Until capitis content aere. Bid farewell , the flea , man empty , Free your intensely vanis!

544. Fleabytes

Comment #132341 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 3:55 pm

Show off!

;)

545. Richard Dawkins on five of his favorite books

Comment #132334 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 3:50 pm

1. LOTR
2. The Mote in God's Eye; Larry Niven
3. Rendezvous with Rama: Clarke
4. Stranger in a Strange Land; Heinlein
5. Flowers for Algernon; Daniel Keyes

546. Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning

Comment #132320 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Radesq, more Guinness, quickly; it's the only thing that will save you! In fact, I'll have one myself, just in case...

547. Fleabytes

Comment #132304 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 3:15 pm

Paula #802.

Have you looked in "Convert's Corner"? Approaching 300 stories there, I think.

http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner,page1

I'll happily post mine (or PM if you prefer, but there's nothing secret about it). It'll be a copy & paste from my intro in the "new members" forum.

All this Latin takes me back to my schooldays (sadly mostly forgotten now!), but also reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

548. Physicist Neil Turok: Big Bang Wasn't the Beginning

Comment #132288 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Steve, are physicists anywhere near being able to test this, using the gravitational waves, or is it likely to remain err..."just a hypothesis" for a long time yet?

I'm quite keen on the idea, if only to piss off the Catholic church...

You quite rightly say that it's a minority viewpoint at present, but so are many other ideas in "cutting edge" physics, and Turok does have credibility (trying to avoid the "Argument from Authority" here, but it seems to be, in principle, testable).

Basically a long-winded way of me saying "I dunno, but...".

Just got a wonderful thought of the theists postulating their god with a brane in either hand, like a couple of table-tennis bats, and banging them together.

549. Richard Dawkins on five of his favorite books

Comment #132160 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 11:23 am

I wish people would stop adding to my reading list! I cant' keep up!

Only read Hoyle out of those 5, and that must have been 40 years ago.

Oh well, amazon, here I go again...

550. Feb 12th: Happy Darwin Day!

Comment #132117 by Geoff on February 24, 2008 at 8:09 am

wooter, it's been suggested time and time again that you read an elementary biology textbook. Clearly you still haven't. All the points you raise, and many more that you clearly struggle to comprehend, will be covered in it.

Once we've answered those 4 (I cant be bothered but someone probably will), you'll just keep coming up with more, until you've asked every FAQ from AiG, all of which have been repeatedly debunked on talkorigins and many other places.

That last post is actually bordering on the sesnsible (by your standards) though.