501. Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

Comment #217185 by Dr Doctor on July 24, 2008 at 2:39 am

It is a useful political mechanism. Get your underlings to say the controversial statement so if it backfires the organisational head can "tell them off" and say "they don't represent the organisation" with no damage done to the body politic.

502. Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

Comment #217157 by Dr Doctor on July 24, 2008 at 2:09 am

"...a thought occurs. If this war with the devil began with the talking snake incident, how does the church square this with its acceptance of evolution and the re-casting of the snake as a metaphor?"

It cannot. So the choices they face are:

a. Hide till this blows over.
b. Retract.
c. Repeal the acceptance of evolution (couched in weaselly terms so it doesn't look like that is what they are doing).

If you want to know what the RC church is up to, don't watch the Pope, watch the underlings. The Pope will always appear more moderate (!!!), whereas the underlings will execute the real policies.

Just like any government, in fact.

503. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #217128 by Dr Doctor on July 24, 2008 at 1:11 am

I wonder if PZ Myers will write a book critical of religion, he could do far worse than call it "Crackers".

504. Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

Comment #217121 by Dr Doctor on July 24, 2008 at 12:46 am

The thought occurs, if the Catholic Church is hell bent on undermining secularism and freedom from religion in this way, and their recent statements seem to confirm that. In the USA would this not count as conspiracy to overthrow the US government and be sufficient to declare them as an illegal organisation?

I know, I can be wish that these slavemaster will snooker themselves.

505. Cardinal accuses Anglican Communion of 'spiritual Alzheimer's'

Comment #217114 by Dr Doctor on July 24, 2008 at 12:10 am

Ignoring the side issue of the sex of deluded officialdom for a moment, it is very entertaining when these insane old men start to row with each other.

But what is less entertaining is the confirmation of what we have known all along:

"These works of the devil were, he added, "secularism, which seeks to build a godless society; spiritual indifference, which is insensitive to transcendental values; and relativism, which is contrary to the permanent tenets of the Gospel"."

To whit: Freedom.

Countdown to the holy war, and who is betting the Priesthood won't be in the front line.

I'm spiritually indifferent, and proud of it.

506. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216986 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 6:47 pm

"The Blind Watchmaker and Climbing Mount Improbable could swap titles and you wouldn't know the difference."

Yes, doesn't that say something about the power of titles?

"Leave off this obsession with the title already!"

Richard, with respect, the book wasn't being judged by the title. The metaphor was just being over-analysed in a well meaning way.

It seems strange to say this to someone with such phenominal success but sometimes marketing pukes earn their pay. On the other hand there is something to be said for having a word-of-mouth selling premier cru.

Talking of dodgy titles, the ill understood metaphor expressed in "Modern Science Writing" is deeply offputting to the consumer and has puzzled our finest minds.

You might consider renaming it to "Heat" for greater sales. This would, of course, require a slightly different front cover.

Still, I'm reminded of when I got my mits on a paperback copy of The Blind Watchmaker and the shop assistant asked me if she should move onto that having finished Faucaults Pendulum by Umberto Eco. In a distracted moment, I said yes.

It is only now, having leafed through Faucaults Pendulum that I realise that she was into a completely different genre of book altogether.

507. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216627 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:58 am

No, I didn't choose my words carefully. To be clear:

We should subject the metaphor discussion to careful criticism.

Is criticism the right word? Oh I give in, I think I will do some work instead!

508. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216622 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:56 am

That is what I meant Steve. Chalk that up to my regularly misfiring ability with the English language.

509. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216617 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:47 am

I don't agree with your criticism there eh-theist. A title is nothing more than a come on. The reader should not have to read the book in order to be attracted to it. The fact that some are picking the metaphor apart is a seperate issue and I think could and should be criticised (Steve has said he welcomes it).

It makes no odds to me as I think the title is perfectly good. However, if the book has brought in lower sales than RDs' other works, perhaps an experiment in turning "Climbing Mount Improbable" into a subtitle might shift a few more copies.

All in the good cause of enlightening people who otherwise would not pick it up of course.

(Edit: No idea what happenned there, sentence became truncated on save)

510. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216612 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:42 am

Ah, the resort to "calm down", trying to imply a critic is not calm. Usually guaranteed to cause rage.

No, sorry, resorting to that bit of cheap national stereotyping is weaselly, not to mention irrelevent.

SBC? Is that an argument from authority? Impressed. Not.

511. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216605 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:32 am

Hmmm.

National stereotypes, classy.

For a while there the moral highground was with you.

512. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216595 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:19 am

Seeing you like great works of fiction, can I recommend the Frank Herbert Dune series Joe?

Plenty of religious babble in there and it has an excellent plotline. Plenty of battles.

513. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216583 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:04 am

I'm wondering about the holocaust denial, is that a crime in the UK?

514. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216577 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 10:00 am

The mapless rambler?

The blindfolded mountaineer?

The journey of a billion steps?

Improbable journey?

515. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216566 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 9:47 am

I feel like the landlord just walked in on us with our feet up on the table.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't the right title, it is just the metaphor being supposed to be more protractile than it really is.

On the other hand, perhaps the metaphor isn't the best choice for a book title. I'm sure you will get plenty of "sexing up" suggestions if you ask for them.

516. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216554 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 9:34 am

I called the number Joe, the number has been discontinued. So much for your balls.

517. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216546 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 9:29 am

Why would anyone want to call you Joe?

After all, your beautiful prose is music enough for most ears.

518. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216375 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 4:38 am

Consider "Climbing mount inevitable", does that make you feel better about it?

519. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216347 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 2:22 am

"Do you think he has actually gone?"

No.

"Do you think the last little exchange where he was forced to confront the fact that there was documentary evidence that Harun Yahya had lied repeatedly might just possibly have opened a kernel of doubt in his mind?"

No.

"Or is it more likely that he will compartmentalise the whole situation and, if he returns, simply press the reset button and start all over again?"

Yes.

520. Good Science Writers: Richard Dawkins

Comment #216327 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 1:32 am

"I actually agree with you, sort of. If eyes aren't hard to evolve, it does not feel that right to me to talk about climbing up a mountain of improbability. It's more like a mountain of apparent improbability, because it seems at first sight that complexity should be unlikely."

I think Dawkins explained this metaphor pretty well. But if it makes you feel uneasy to talk in those terms, why not use your own metaphor?

Metaphors often don't work for everyone, (I admit I thought about putting this on your blog rather than here but the discussion on it is current) which is why a good writer uses it as an amuse gueule.

To pick at it the way you are might be a fun intellectual exercise but on your blog you used it as a criticism which I think is stretching things somewhat:

Just to quote the bit I am referring to:

(your comment on your blog entry)
[[[ ****
I think Richard Dawkins is perhaps the best explainer of scientific ideas I have ever read, but also one of the worst for coming up with metaphors and examples! Even at the start of "the selfish gene", I think he gets things wrong. He describes his "gene centred" viewpoint and the "organism centred" viewpoint as if they were alternative ways of looking at a "Necker cube". But, they aren't! The gene centred view is the right one, in almost every case.

The Mount Improbable idea may seem to make things easier to understand for a young audience, but doesn't my Mount Probable metaphor make things even easier? I think the key thing with my approach is that it doesn't emphasise that evolution is difficult; is improbable.

Richard is a true scientist. I am sure he would be happy that people like me challenge his approach :)"

**** ]]]

521. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #216319 by Dr Doctor on July 23, 2008 at 1:24 am

Joe

Why do you flee the field of battle? Your insights were simply fascinating.

522. Islam subway ads cause stir in New York

Comment #216295 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 11:58 pm

Islam as an idea, a way of life, is as clearly anti-democratic as Scientology.

The reason why the rhetoric of rivers of blood is less than overwhelming is that Islam is not a race, but an idea, and all ideas can be fought in the public area given they are permitted to be discussed.

523. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215900 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 1:25 pm

Joe

Please post some new things as well.

524. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215894 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Joe

How did Harun Yahya utterly ruined evolution?

Please expand on your proofs from earlier.

You are really opening my eyes!

525. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215885 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 1:10 pm

What did they do to him in the 80s Joe?

526. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215882 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 1:09 pm

Joe

You are peeling away the layers of an onion here! Does he say any more about the Freemason? Is it the Freemasons behind the evolution conspiracy, or zionists?

527. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215874 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Joe

I'm not sure the codepage on that text worked in your favour, could you retry?

That was also a little brief, can you expand on it?

528. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215865 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:53 pm

Joe

That is truly truly awesome, can you tell us more?

529. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215848 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Dear Joe

I have a cock, but unless cocks have evolved typing ability I must concede to being merely human.

Please do enlighten me further, I'm finding this all very thrilling.

530. Antony Flew reviews the Index of The God Delusion

Comment #215837 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Where angels fear to tread...

531. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215836 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Amazing, please expand on that, Joe.

532. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215829 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Fascinating, please do tell me more.

533. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215820 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Hey Joe,

What straw do you think I'm clutching at? That is a terribly funny punchline to an article.

I'm sure if the "Atlas", written by an convicted fraudster, really did prove the evolution did not happen as a process for every single living organism that has ever existed or will ever exist we'd have heard about it now by a Nobel prize being awarded.

Here, have a grape.

534. [UPDATED] Venomous Snakes, Slippery Eels and Harun Yahya

Comment #215798 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 11:52 am

"By now, we have come to expect something pretty good when we look at the photograph of the modern animal. What will the modern 'caddis fly' be? A minnow, perhaps? A garden slug? A king prawn? No, in a way is better than any of these: A fishing lure, complete with prominent steel hook!"

I wish I'd read this article a few days ago. This is priceless. Genuine bellylaugh moment, thank you.

535. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #215587 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 6:53 am

"Still waiting for answer! No one has guessed as of yet-we can do this. This is not the Fourier series here. Simple stuff guys. We have to put our heads together. It's kindergarden stuff. I'm going to go work in the garden now. Ooooh... I hope Richie answers it; woun't that be a treat guy! We can also start to do some muse alittle-some presynaptic, postsynaptic push ups if you will, and study say-transfinite induction. Ohhh... Good stuff guys. "

Just a tip: Self elevation over your peers works better if you aren't actually full of crap in the first place.

536. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #215581 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 6:41 am

"With respect to debating D'Souza (or any of the other prominent theists), I don't think that the debate format is very conducive. Instead, we should have 30 minutes of, say, Dawkins questioning D'Souza about his beliefs followed by 30 minutes of D'Souza questioning Dawkin's reasoning. Personally, I'd really like to understand why obviously intelligent people like D'Souza suspend their critical faculties when it comes to their faith - emotional intertia probably"

I think you hit the nail on the head on both counts. The flaws of the formal debate format and cognitive dissonance & the big cosmic comfort blanket.

537. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #215577 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 6:34 am

"What is the first rule of the mathematics?"

Don't talk about mathematics.

"What is the first thing we learn..."

How to breathe? Where mammas bosom is?

"OK, now we ponder this rule... it can not be broken and I can explain why later after listen to the musing of our minds for awhile."

You just broke it, you talked about Mathematics.

538. The brain in love

Comment #215532 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 4:12 am

I put up with the first 8 minutes. I didn't see the point of the pitch at that point, and I was getting irritated by her constantly taking refuge in poetry.

Is it worth listening to the rest?

539. Richard Dawkins on Al Jazeera English

Comment #215451 by Dr Doctor on July 22, 2008 at 12:22 am

Thank you for that, A.J.P. Taylor.

540. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #215120 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 10:14 am

As I said, we've heard these kind of arguments before in France.

If you come up with something new, something startling, I'll be listening. Until then, it is "here comes the new crisis, same as the old crisis."

541. Richard Dawkins slaps creationists into the primordial soup

Comment #215112 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 10:04 am

Mitchell, nice to see you got that egomania problem under control at last. ;)

542. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #215109 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 9:58 am

"Dr. Doctor,

That is a really cute notion. But in 20-30 years Muslims will be the majority and you other past time (democracy) will come to bite you in the ass. But don't worry, I am sure by then the radical nationalists will have seized power and will be forcing all immigrants into camps.

The problem isn't whether or not you have seperation of church and state, it is whether or not your Muslim populations are breeding like rabbits... and they are. While the native population is in fact shrinking.

Bonjour Francistan!"

Whatever you say. I've heard all this guff before. ;)

543. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #215103 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 9:42 am

I wouldn't worry about France. France has a vehement seperation of church and state for historical reasons. We also protest effectively and consider ourselves to be citizens rather than subjects.

544. Antony Flew reviews the Index of The God Delusion

Comment #215096 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 9:28 am

I suppose if it were my book, I might also spit one or two feathers about it.

Thing is, it must be like being savaged by a gummy, elderly collie dog.

I can't bring myself to laugh at Flew, and I don't agree with RD's prognosis about ghost thinkers. I think that is going a little bit too far.

Perhaps a robust response would be appropriate after all, but anyone who had read TGD without the pitch being queered for them would not need a response.

I'm saving my bile for those taking advantage of him.

545. Texas State Board of Education approves Bible course for high schools

Comment #214910 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 3:34 am

"...non-believers (ateists, secularists, etc.) should start more schools in response to the religious push to indoctrinate children.

I am convinced that it is the non-believers who are advancing humanity, so why not push the success of the brand. "

Reason should always strive to be mainstream.

546. Antony Flew reviews the Index of The God Delusion

Comment #214895 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 2:46 am

My father in law fathered my wife very late in life, being a venerable musician keeping musicians' hours. In the last few years of his life we chose the route of looking after the great man ourselves.

I witnessed first hand the rapid descent physically and mentally from what was a maestro in his day, with an acute mind and faultless manners into what I can best describe as a second adolescence and a tumble into firmly held unsound views and a terribly sexist attitude towards women. None of these attributes he had shown earlier in life.

He was only dimly aware of his own change in outward behavior, and trying to address it directly was, we found, pointless. It demeaned him and demeaned us to argue the toss as he was really no longer himself. With, I might add, the odd exception.

In the end he was not sad about passing. He made no Pascal's wager as the mans' innate honesty was intact to the end. He didn't fear death.

It is something that most of us will experience as we get older, as undignified as it is.

This is the reason I don't think an official response to the article is required: You can't respond with the robustness it would require.

I'm doing a terrible job of explaining what I mean, but there is nothing to be gained in correcting a harmless old man.

547. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #214825 by Dr Doctor on July 21, 2008 at 12:03 am

"Mine however is that two english speaking countries are at present involved in an illegal and utterly destructive war with a country they conquered in a blitzkrieg type fashion."

Something we can agree on.

"The level of furor displayed here against the utterly vile and brutal measures in Iran is misplaced,"

Why? Can't you condemn two things at the same time?

"That is why I draw attention to the much greater evil undertaken by us western countries - just look at the support we grant a regime like saudi arabia, egypt, azherbeidjan etc."

The problem is in the system. There are similarities, both atrocities exist because of lack of reason, accountability and baser human motives.

What makes you think that those who condemn such actions don't condemn the Iraq war? You wouldn't be arguing against a straw-man of intellectual liberalism would you?

You remind me of "Sir Robert".

548. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #214823 by Dr Doctor on July 20, 2008 at 11:56 pm

"Don`t know about you Dr but I`ve got to work for a living and when you fuck with that ,as far as I am concerned the rules no longer apply."

Yep, I work for a living too and there would be trouble if someone screwed with my tools of the trade.

I'm continually astonished by the amount of hours various posters can and do put into commenting. By the time I come back to a conversation it is pages back.


"Anyhoo I don`t need a stadium, I got a man coming to dig a 6 meter offal pit in the back paddock, a couple of ex sheep on top of the bodies and nobody will suspect a thing. ;) "

Don't forget the lime!

549. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #214800 by Dr Doctor on July 20, 2008 at 11:00 pm

8teist

"Just had me toolbelt pinched last week ,nothing of real value , for fucks sake a 10 year old belt,hammer, square just everything essential for me to earn a crust, little bastards they better hope I don`t catch them `cos I won`t be going to the cops ,I`ll sort that myself."

If I had a hammer...

I'm sure we can find an empty stadium somewhere that we can string 'em up. Best thing the Romans ever did for us.

550. Nine face stoning death in Iran

Comment #214798 by Dr Doctor on July 20, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Well, if there are any Atheists there, they'd better not go in and try to rescue these people. That would be an infringement of their rights to engage in the execution of religious law.

Besides, by challenging their world view we would be seen as being impolite, and they might not become Atheists because they would not want to be associated with such brutish ill mannered people and would be put off becoming Atheists....

[sound of needle being pulled from record]

...Oh, whats that? The line has been crossed now and it is acceptable to intervene and possibly show the Great Atheist Cause in a poor light by criticising them and intervening? Is it? Really? We are permitted to be less than Zen about the situation? We are permitted to "steal" their crackers and challenge their world view?

Thanks for the permission.

;)