Comments by riandouglas

Comment #170239 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm

MPhil: Don't underestimate William Lane Craig... he is extremely good at constructing arguments. His papers in defence of the kalam cosmological argument are really good (though ultimately, I opine, unconvincing). His "Holy Spirit Epistemology" on the other hand... let's not talk about that one.

Anyway - a competent philosopher arguinging at times brilliantly in defence of something absurdly ridiculous.

I don't underestimate him. I find many of his arguments difficult to argue against or find fault with, though I generally have a "this is all he says/thinks it is" feeling (could be my prejudices). I do find he starts with unfounded, yet "common sense" premises at times.
Also, from a strictly emotional viewpoint, he looks like a slippery sort - used car salesman.

Thanks once again for even more reading.

502. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170236 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:53 pm

Steve Zara: Because they assume that their minds are supernatural.

Which as we all know, as is helpfully spelt out in the atheist handbook, is an assumption without supporting evidence.
EDIT: Though I suppose it is an assumption which rings true. I mean, how could neurons, matter electro chemical reactions etc give rise to this subjective experience? (not asking for an answer just posing it for demonstration purposes. Though if you know of one...)

503. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170231 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:50 pm

PLAYBALL: I'm sorry. I got my superhero's mixed up.

Well, he would be a super hero, really, as his (and the other x-men etc) powers come from genetic mutation, not some supernatural source.
Apart from that, since they all wear figure hugging lycra it is tough to tell them apart.

504. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170225 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:48 pm

lostpoet: Again, another stunning statement by someone who is supposed to be a scientist. On what basis does Miller, or anyone else for that matter, put god outside natural phenomena? Presumably, god affects the natural world (universe). So clearly, these effects can be investigated scientifically.

The categorical mistake miller makes is to assume yahweh exists.

505. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170223 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Kardashovel: If you ask your comrades here they will tell you that I am not sane

Not insane. More "interesting" :-)

Kardashovel: How much longer can the situation persist before a crippling correction takes place?

Does this tie in to your "seculer apocolypse" thing?
If so do tell. Let assume for the moment, that some kind of apocolypse is inevitable (if you have a specific one, do tell) and go from there. Where does Jesus show up?

506. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170219 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:43 pm

mrgoodjob: Obsolete just means that something more useful or more designed to task has come about.

It's not the meaning, it's the associations.
Apparently USA'ians have strong negative connotations attached to the word "obsolete" such that it is no longer usefull for it's dictionary meaning.

507. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170215 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:41 pm

gr8hands: I certainly hope you were joking with your post, so I won't comment on it.

Yes, I was joking. I like to think I'd have tried to at least justify the statement if I was serious, but I guess one can never be too sure around here.

If I say something insulting to someone, please let me know, as I'd like my serious statements to be the cause of insult, and not my lighthearted moments.

508. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170213 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:39 pm

Steve Zara: I am warming to Stenger, even though I am not his greatest fan.

He did seem to do well in his Lane Craig debate, at least according to the small number of neurons I devoted to listening to it. To keep to the point amidst all of the misdirection and rhetoric which WLC throws about is surely admirable

509. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170206 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:34 pm

Steve Zara: Yes, yes, he did, OK! Just don't quote Tipler anymore I can't take it

I'm not even quoting Tipler - it's all third party.
I like Stengers review of the book. He ends by saying:
"So, believers, you now have what you have waited 400 years for: a complete scientific justification for your faith."

510. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #170201 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:29 pm

FightingFalcon: There are times that I get completely disgusted with this board and this is one of them. I can't understand why anyone with absolutely no experiences with the US military would criticize the entire organization because of the actions of one man. Disgusted is the only word I can describe how I feel toward such people.

Not excusing the behaviour, but it is a farily simple matter to take something which has been experienced and does occur in your own world, and apply it to others.
I have no experience with the military of any kind, but it does sound "plausible" that it might happen. Whether it is probable, well I just don't know

511. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170200 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:27 pm

Bonzai: Well then it is not pretending. Pretending has to be willful deception by my understanding.

Accepted. I guess for me it was a matter of trying to recognise when I might have been suppressing/pretending, and trying to work out why, and also what it was I was avoiding/suppressing.

512. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #170198 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:25 pm

D'Arcy: 24 hours without TTID? Has my prediction of the future proved true? Am I really the Prophet that has been awaited?

No, it is I. I correctly predicted the order the final 4 of "So you think you can dance Australia" would be removed from the show, producing the winner. I subsequently cast demons out of my flat mate.
Obviously being the son of Quetz has it's benefits

513. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170191 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:22 pm

PLAYBALL: Very funny you in your batman suit. Most of my male friends are gay.

Ahh, see there is where you're mistaken. Gay's are not men.
Plus, it's not batman, it's Havok. He's an X-Man you know.

PLAYBALL: Yes I think this is true, but it stinks! I remember falling in love with my first boyfriend. We had been dating awhile and went to see the movie Beaches. I thought it was sad but he stared crying at the end. I thought it was kinda sweet. It was an aphrodisiac of sorts, at least for me. I love it when you get raw emotion. It's sexy.

Beaches wouldn't do it for me - can't stand Bett Midler for some reason. Colour purple or forest gump on the other hand...

514. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170189 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Bonzai: I don't know if it is pretending or genuinely clueless. I think I am quite clueless about certain emotional things, and genuinely feel uncomfortable in situations where there is too much touchy feely stuff going on.

Unless you're mentally impaired (asperger's etc), I'd think a bit of both. The pretending doesn't have to be particularly conscious, just learned behaviour to deal with some situations. My experience anyway.

515. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170183 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Steve Zara: although suffered a bit of a blow when it was discovered that the universe was open (Tipler's initial formulation required that the universe would collapse).

Didn't he respond saying the super intelligent robots destroy enough barryons to take the state of the higgs field to a minimum energy level, therefore reducing the effect of dark energy and causing the universe to collapse?
Keep in mind a yes or no is sufficient, because I have no idea what I just typed :-)

Steve Zara: Have you followed discussions with Kardashovel?

Yeah, that's why I included the qualification

516. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170180 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:11 pm

clintonjason: More or less it's the same thing, make god obsolete or not... people will want their presents: eternal life, love, happiness and so on. And if they won't get those things from god, they will look for those things somewhere else. Astrology... cards... empty coffee cups... a new religion... just anything.

Similar to Dennett's argument concerning religion being (possibly) a neccesity of some sort, regardless of it's truth value?

edit: wrong quote - oops

517. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170176 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:09 pm

Steve Zara: By "Universe", Dawkins means "everying". He is talking about God as the ultimate first cause.

I had a interesting (for me) thought while trying (unsuccessfully) to sleep early this morning.
An "uncaused universe" is often derided by saying "from nothing comes nothing" or something to that effect. Is it a simple matter to turn this around, saying, since Yahweh (whoever) is immaterial, transcendent and eternal/timeless (outside of time), he is in essence nothing, and they're stick on the other side of their own argument?

EDIT: Steve, kardy seems to be on the Lying thread, if you'd like to continue your discussion.

518. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170173 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Mitchell Gilks: I think that makes them cowardly and intellectually dishonest. They might as well feign a number of other things while they're at playing pretend.

I agree, and I know I did feign a number of things (and likely still do). Bottling up "uncomfortable" emotions is a habit which seems to have been easily instilled, but damned hard to break out of. At least for me. A work in progress, if you will

519. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170170 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:05 pm

mordacious1: Hi, my name is Rob (Hi Rob) I am a Richarddawkins.net-aholic. I have neglected my wife, my kids, work. It has affected my sleeping patterns and how much exercise I get. It has affecting my relationships, especially with fundies. I tend to make them very upset. There must be better alternatives but I can't find one. Thanks for listening.

Welcome to "Dawk-a-holics unanimous" mordacious1, thanks for sharing your story.
Everyone, thank mordacious1 for sharing with us.

Phil Rimmer: If God exists, our earnest, honest and unbiased investigations may one day get to the fact. A Belief in God is almost certain to defeat such a possibility.

Well said. At the very least, a belief in god which resembles that held by the majority of believers is certainly a stumbling block.

520. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170166 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 1:02 pm

kardashovel: As it turns out I have one of his books sitting on my shelf: "The Physics of Immortality". Perhaps I'll have a look. I had always dismissed it as yet another pop-sci book that someone gifted me during my incarceration within the ivory tower.

"Immortality" is his work prior to "The science of Christianity" where he lays out the omega point theory in all its glory.
Not sure about you, but a story which requires Jesus converting all of the matter in his body into neutrino's and back again to carry out his appearances to the apostles is a bit of a stretch. Not read the book mind you, but still...

521. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170162 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm

PLAYBALL: I remember reading somewhere that we don't remember events but rather how the event made us feel. Maybe feelings are more important to women. Maybe that's why we do this. I don't know, I have many sensitive male friends, but in a good way. Not too emotional, just caring human beings.

We men are without feelings, except for anger. Oh, and perhaps jealousy. You're sensitive friends are obviously accomplished actors.
Joking aside, I think men are/have been trained to not pay attention to feelings, or carry on as if they don't have them. Just my opinion mind you.

522. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170151 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Cartomancer, I had bypassed your work, as it was not part of the main "discussion" - a (possibly) bad habit of mine.
Having gone back and read it (the subsequent references piqued my interest), I have to join Steve and say Wow!
You have my sympathy

523. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170035 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:42 am

Cartomancer: In a very particular manner of speaking, yes!...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_(slang)

I realised that as typing. Also the whole "taste in mouth" thing could have been taken incorrectly.

Cartomancer: That's the difference between cats and dogs. Dogs have owners, cats on the other hand only have staff.

Yeah, but the staff are in a union, and if the boss asks too much, they strike.

524. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170034 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:39 am

Dr Benway, I agree with what you're saying, and it would likely keep us in check. EDIT: or at least more focussed.
I can't see how it would change the behaviour of those who come here to regurgitate nonsense and get a rise out of people. Nor those who are convinced they're correct. I may be missing something, but I think some of them (our good pals Remnant and TheTruthID being notable recent examples I have had experience with) would simply assume their arguments were too difficult to deal with, and we stopped responding to them - similar to the way we view Remnants diversions.
Also, how on earth would you know if wooter|clearmind had actually addressed the question? He could have provided a complete proof the the existence of the Christian God, which was irrifutable, and nobody would be able to tell.
In fact, I think that is what he/they claim anyway.

525. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170027 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:32 am

Cartomancer: Second date? second date? I've never even managed a first date before. What are they like?

If taken in the same sitting, the second date is much like the first, except you will be a little less full, and have the taste of the first in your mouth. We're talking about the fruit, right?

Cartomancer: I'm with upsidedawn on this one. My cat Wednesday is far more important than anyone else in the family, including me.

In it's opinion, sure. Mine is the same generally, and I let him get away with it, generally. There are occasions when he is told in no uncertain terms that he is not the boss of me, and I am certainly the boss of him.
After those uncomfortable moments, we go back to pretending the reverse.

526. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170026 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:28 am

ThoughtOnCommonToad, Shermer is ascribing possible universe creating abilities to his aliens. In this regard, his argument would seem to converge with Dawkins'

527. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170025 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:26 am

Pinker from the link: Start with the origin of the world. Today no honest and informed person can maintain that the universe came into being a few thousand years ago and assumed its current form in six days

But i've talked with many of these people. They claim to be honest. They claim they're informed. Yet they still go for the 6 day creation.
Wait, misinformed is quite different to informed isnt it?
My mistake, carry on all.

528. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170022 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:23 am

terradea: Science, if anything, should make true Christians even stronger because it would force them to have more faith! Think of it: if science absolutely proved that God never existed, the faith required to believe in God would root out the luke-warm believers. Christians, if they really wanted to strengthen their faith and religion, would welcome, even promote science.

Could that argument be an explanation for a rise in the number of religious ~~whackjobs~~ fundamentalists in the US specifically, and the world in general?

529. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170020 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:20 am

Shermer via ThoutsonCommonToad: What would we call an intelligent being capable of engineering a universe, stars, planets, and life? If we knew the underlying science and technology used to do the engineering, we would call it Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence; if we did not know the underlying science and technology, we would call it God.

God perhaps. Certainly not Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, Krishna, Zeus, Thor etc.

Maybe Quetz?

530. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #170018 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:17 am

MaxD: I've always wondered why people take a book like revelations seriously as a predictive tool when it can be made to predict anything. Wouldn't God's treatise on the end times be less fuzzy, um...crisper, more user-friendly?

Yahweh works in mysterious/angry ways. Didn't even tell his son when it was going to happen.
I guess Jesus was being rebellious, and Yahweh had to take away his omnipotence as a punishment. Probably had to do with all that rule changing Jesus instituted. The whole "while your in my house your'll follow my rules" thing. Bit of a problem when the entirety of creation is your dad's house.

531. Does science make belief in God obsolete?

Comment #170013 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 9:12 am

Steve Zara: As science can probably deal completely with all those cases, what gap does it leave for gods?

I've got a gap in my teeth, will they fit there?

serious answer delayed due to time constraints

532. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170006 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:56 am

upsidedawn: Maybe having a sexual partner and friend in the same person is kind of like multi tasking.

Little wonder I can't manage it then.

533. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170002 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:49 am

MaxD: That is one of the silliest things I've read in a while, and I've been debating remnant and TruthID alot.

That's untrue Max. What has been going on between yourself and remnant/truthid is nothing like a debate. Unless I'm mistaken, debates usually have two sides which both make points and argue their position. Those two idiots could have been beaten by letting my cat walk on the keyboard.

534. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #170000 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:46 am

Steve Zara: You can also have a sexual relationship with a man and keep him as a friend (14 years so far).

Perhaps you can. Unfortunately I don't find the male form quite as appealing as the female, and would have trouble keeping up the sexual part (pun unintended, but noted).
Damn genetics and evironment!

535. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #169997 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:36 am

Steve Zara: Keeping up is so bad, I am tempted to write a "conversation tracker" application. It would notify in real time if a particular conversation has changed, or keep track of what has changed since last viewing.

I was thinking some kind of IM interface which backs onto the website, so you don't have to keep polling the site. If only I had the time...

On a different note, I think I'm falling prey to the effect which is the basis of Cory Doctrow's "Eastern Standard Tribe", though which tribe do I associate with? The UK'ers or the US'Ers (and the US is probably large enough to have an east and a west tribe). I wonder if my employer would allow me to radically change my work hours...

536. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169994 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:31 am

UpsideDawn: Amazingly enough, you can actually have a sexual relationship with a woman and also have her as a friend.

I'm not convinced. I tried it once and it didn't work out.
Took me 8 years to realise it though...

537. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169993 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:29 am

Mitchel Gilks: Driving on a nice day, opposed to driving in a snow storm for instance. I forget the names for the two types of actions.

[sarcasm]Easy and hard?[/sarcasm]

538. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #169992 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:28 am

Steve Zara: See - this is an example of why you should not stop posting.

It's 1:30am here, I've only had 10 hours sleep after being awake for 36 hours. During the week I'll be getting up at ~5am to train prior to work.
Will you people please give me my life back!

Thanks Steve. I'll keep posting as I can, but it is hard to keep up with the conversations, even having been doing it "full time" as it were this weekend.

539. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169988 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:22 am

Corylus: Men can multi-task. E.g, reading whilst sitting on the lavatory is a prime example. I'm always impressed by that one :-)

I hold up the newspaper to hide the expression of concentration such a mentally draining activity takes - nothing to do with multitasking.
I can however walk and chew gum. Though I often trip or choke on the gum, I am still the envy of my male friends due to my greater profficiency in combining these two activities.

540. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #169986 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:19 am

Steve Zara: This is a profoundly mistaken way of describing the situation.

There isn't science on the ID side of the fence.

It's like building your house with it's back to a cliff, and then being told the neighbours behind you are complaining about the noise.

541. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169983 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 8:17 am

Corylus: Conversely, other people here have strong enough stomachs to deal with the likes of Remnant, the like of which I personally I find polluting and should avoid.

I'm not sure I did anything resembling a good job at dealing with him, but I did kind of enjoy Remnants evasiveness. Perhaps I have a masochistic streak.
If someone works so (seemingly) hard to avoid even recognising a question (and he was given chances to say "I'm not going to answer that") it seems a great indication that they have absolutely no idea what they're speaking about. The trashing he received concerning every other topic he diverted to was simply the icing on the cake.

Then again, maybe I'm not remembering correctly, I had been up for 36 hours

Speaking of which, I think I went to bed a couple of hours ago. Damn sleep-posting

542. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169977 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 7:48 am

Geoff: Just waiting for Paula or Anna to drop in and show where we're going wrong...

You mean there are actual women who read and post here. I thought it was like most MMORPG's where guys use female avatars and names.

*blushes* Now I feel a little nervous

543. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169963 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 6:32 am

Night all.

Hopefully any visitors will answer questions to support their assertions or keep their mouths shut.

544. A Conversation with Expelled's Associate Producer Mark Mathis

Comment #169962 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 6:27 am

"I'm looking at this as a logical analytical person"

He's what now?

Shame they didn't call him on his "atheism is a religion" comment, but you can't have everything.

He comes off as a smug, arrogant, ignorant fool.
Bravo Mark!

545. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169955 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:51 am

Quetz: that was "Origin", the third one in the sequence.

There was a sequence? I am truly doomed now. Thank you all so very much for dooming me to a life of constant catch-up reading.

546. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169952 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:45 am

Steve, was "Time" the one where the moon was a machine which jumped about between alternate universes distributing hominid's, created by mankind at the end of the universe because there were no aliens and they were lonely?
If so, I've just been saved the price of a book

547. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169949 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:39 am

Steve Zara: They are just like NORMAL people, only more complex.

There Steve, fixed it for you

548. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169948 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:38 am

Steve Zara: It certainly was. It is also something like the plot of Stephen Baxter's novel "Time".

Damn you! Another book to pick up. Have enjoyed Baxter's sci-fi before, though I can't remember any actual book titles.
I think my flat mate is going to have to stop me coming here - the house is only so big, and there isn't much room for bookshelves.

549. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169943 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:33 am

Steve Zara: One can't generalise, but that describes me perfectly. All my fumbling attempts to initiate relationships with women when I was younger ended up with me as close friend. Most of my friends are women.

That describes me pretty well too - except that I still want to sleep with them :-/

550. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169941 by riandouglas on April 27, 2008 at 5:30 am

Quetz: The current Quetzology on this subject is that I am a divine being and have chosen to manifest myself upon Earth in the form of a mortal avatar, currently aged 24.

Did (one of) your previous manifestation(s) take the form of a civil engineer in South Africa? If so, I think this idea has legs. If not, I may have to amend some of my documentation, you know, to reflect the "truth"