551. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #121238 by Richard Morgan on February 3, 2008 at 5:53 am

God is outside of time?
Great news!
Lock the door and throw the key away.
Diacanu : Yes, you should write a book. In fact, if you string all your comments together, you'll probably find that you have already done so.
You may have to call it a book of poems if you want to get it published, however, since you use a lot of short sentences.
But it's true, you have turned insulting people into an art form.Even my ex-wife could learn from you!

552. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120922 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 6:54 pm

Blacknad - My pathetic little story is NOT anecdotal evidence.
It is no kind of evidence at all.
It was never intended as evidence.
I was just wanting to share with my friends here on RD Net.
My "Friends". You have not yet earned that title.


http://www.esnips.com/web/For-RDNet-Friends

553. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120912 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 6:41 pm

zendal darkman : don't forget to use the link "Other comments by" then Control-F if you want to find things quickly in other people's comments.

554. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120754 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Talking about hearing voices...
In the Mormon church, the big boss president and Prophet gets messages from God for all of humanity.
"Stake" presidents get messages from God for the running of their "Stake".
"Bishops" get messages from God for the administration of their local church.
And all married men who are "priesthood"-holders HEAR the voice of god to guide them in running their family.
And every Mormon is entitled to ask god questions and get answers.
So why should Kardathingummy be so different?
Now if you have the good luck of having Mitt Romney as President (God forbid!!!!), then he will surely hear the voice of god giviing him hints on how to run the country and keep his millions safe.

555. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #120747 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 12:32 pm

Off thread, perhaps, but I need your help,guys.
I have an existential problem, a WELSH existential problem.
Wales - 26 : England - 19.
HALLELUJAH!


But - a miracle without God.
Oh dear.
Oh deary, deary me.

556. Are Darwin's Theories Fact or Faith Issues?

Comment #120737 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 12:14 pm

Did you notice the beautiful "Freudian slip" of the tongue from one of the presenters at the beginning?

Before we even begin the destru..., discussion..."

Whatever else got destroyed in this miserable programme, it was neither the theory of evolution, nor PZ Myers' reputation.
I have a question for my fine transatlantic friends : Is it normal for radio presenters to be such BAD public speakers, emitting more "errs" and "umms" than real words?
Also, how come this guy used so much valuable time explaining that they didn't have much time?
Overall, just another proof that there is NO discussion possible with IDers who have no Ideas.

557. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120567 by Richard Morgan on February 2, 2008 at 2:54 am

The Six Nations Rugby Tournament starts today.
See you all on Monday.

558. Belief in Belief

Comment #120363 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Titan :

Now, I guess until this happens to you it all sounds pretty unbelievable. But I assure you when it does happen to you, you don't care what other people think. You know who is at work.

I recognise this kind of life-changing experience.
I have seen it happen many times, with the Christian God, the Mormon God, the Baha'i God, Primal therapy, psychoanalysis, PNL, musicotherapy, Ericksonian hypnotherapy, astrology, falling in love, the list is almost endless.
Real change happens.
And every time the person concerned "knows who (or what) is at work".
Well, so do I.
It's the person concerned!
I'm always happy to learn that a person's life has changed for the better.
Just as long as the "who is at work" doesn't start giving orders to fly planes into skyscrapers.

559. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120299 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 11:50 am

Verylee :

VOX who??...sounds like a cheesy Italian boy band.

Vox Day.
As in the expression when you wake up with diarrhoea and somebody else's wife and you say, "Oh fuck, I'm in for another vox day today."

MPhil :

Sorry Radesq... my brain tends to shut down temporarily after a few good cocktails.

No problem, my fine friend - nobody will notice the difference.

560. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120257 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 11:12 am

ianmkz

THANK YOU


Apparently Adam and Eve spoke Welsh (my mother tongue) because some ancient scholar decided that they "spoke a language that no man could understand".
I have no proof, but I suspect this is not true.
"My wife says that I never listen to her. At least, I think that's what she said."

561. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120203 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 10:32 am

Has anybody read the studies that suggest that there may a genetical basis for fundamental grammatical structures?
Really - I'm being serious.
If so, is there an explanation for the survival advantages of a mutation called Glaswegian?

562. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #120185 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 10:20 am

annabanana :

there tend to be discrepancies in European English and American English

There seem to be some discrepancies between your claims about the importance of grammar and what you actually write.
But I may be wrong.
My wife often points out discrepancies in my explanations for why I stay out late.
Just for the record, I am not a pedant, just the occasional smart-arse.
I appreciate your presence on the this site as much as I value Steve Zara's.

563. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119890 by Richard Morgan on February 1, 2008 at 1:09 am

Just had a few hours sleep.
Caught up with this discussion.
Clearly the end is in sight.
At last.
Just wanted to retract what I said in Comment N°19 : I will NOT be downloading TIA.
And since no-one has seen fit to eliminate BTA from this debate, I will NOT be returning to this thread.

564. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119735 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 7:05 pm

Oh shit, BTA has colleagues AND distant relatives in space.
Scotty, beam them all up and hit them, please.

565. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119630 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 5:45 pm

Radesq:

do we have any idea where midpoint of the universe today is (if there could be such a thing?)

According to some earlier posts, apparently it's somewhere in Yorkshire.

566. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119619 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Radesq :

Any proofs of God's existence yet?

Yes, plenty, but it just went to bed.

567. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119610 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Becomethearrer :

Can't win for losing, maybe you can get Richard to ban me and you can find some fool for your fodder.

I'm sorry, but I'm not in a position to ban anybody from this site.
In fact I was rather touched by

Don't you hate it when you can't fill your empty holes with me?

because I thought you were making advances...

568. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119588 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Goldy :

You, sir, are a prize fuckwit of the highest order.

I'm sorry, Goldy, I have to disagree with you here. The "sir" is quite inappropriate.

Fuck off and leave us clever, intelligent and rational people alone.

Actually, I'd rather like to stay around a while, if that's all right with you guys. I can't honestly identify with the aforementioned "clever, intelligent and rational people."
But my mother loves me.

569. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119550 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 4:52 pm

Blacknad :

What have I done wrong apart from not agree with you?

You still up?

...would be interested to know if I'm wrong.

Ah, if only that were true. The best thing you've said all night. You're almost speaking like a scientist.
Unfortunately, I don't believe you - in this context. The rest of us are almost passionately interested by the idea of being wrong. But as for you and the rest of the god-squad...

570. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119530 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 4:44 pm

Blacknad :

If you have a reasonable question I will do my best.

Reading what you have already said, I am only partially reassured to learn that the "best" is yet to come.
Seriously, you can go to bed now - with a good book or with somebody who has read one.
You could try "The God Delusion" if you're alone tonight.

571. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119463 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 4:11 pm

Blacknad : Please feel free to go to bed. We will try to survive without you.

572. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119455 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 4:02 pm

Blacknad :

and the bombshell: "Towards the end of the Middle Ages, religious scientists.....

"Religious scientists" in the Middle Ages?
What on earth does that mean?
That there was a plethora of non-religious scientists?
And you consider that a "bombshell"?
Oh, deary, deary me...

Or it couldn't be that being aligned with our maker gives psychological benefits?

No, it couldn't.
But, as Steve Zara points out, being "aligned with" the social group does avoid a lot of hassle.

573. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119436 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Blacknad :

If you need me to go and find the wealth of studies I can do.

I think you should - immediately.

574. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119433 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 3:30 pm

Corylus :

I wouldn't call them crazy - "merely" mistaken.

OK.
Point taken.
It was your "merely" that seemed to blur the distinction between neurosis and psychosis.

575. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119410 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Corylus :

Merely deeply mistaken and giving an internal dialogue the status of an external one.

Merely?
Merely?
Oh well...

576. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #119402 by Richard Morgan on January 31, 2008 at 3:01 pm

kardashovel :

And so I proceeded to take a walk around the neighborhood, talking out loud with God.

When I was a Mormon missionary in France (1972-74), after tracting (proselyting door-to-door)under a hot sun all day, a kindly soul took pity on us and invited us in for a glass of fruit juice.
We gave him the "First lesson" J.Smith's revelations and all that.
As missionaries we had recently received new instructions as to how we were to question contacts : give 'em the hard stuff (Joe Smith chatting with God and jesus in the sacred grove) then ask'em straight out "Can you believe that joseph Smith spoke with God the father and Jesus Christ, his son."
Without missing a beat this guy replied, "I most certainly can. I'm a psychiatrist, and in the hosiptal where I work, I have in my care at least thirty people who speak regularly with God, Jesus, The Holy Virgin or Buddy Holly. These people are never lonely."
We did not baptise this man, but his fruit juice was most refreshing!
At least Kardashovel's confession clears up the whole silly business of debating with him.
"Next, please."

577. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #118464 by Richard Morgan on January 30, 2008 at 5:15 pm

Blacknad :

I didn't dismiss The God Delusion before giving it a fair try - and I found it contained some excellent points - just not enough, and shot through with much ignorance of the subject matter.

Ignorance of precisely what subject matter?
God?
Not a subject, I'm afraid, since it doesn't exist.
Unless the subject is what people have invented and written and said about non-existent gods?
Well, I have the same problem. In fact, I am scrotum-shrinkingly ignorant of almost all the subtle details of everything that doesn't exist. I don't even know what I don't know!

578. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117816 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 5:53 pm

discipline

http://www.unscrewingtheinscrutable.com/node/1727

Worrisome..

The only thing that I find slightly worrisome is that discipline should find this review worrisome.
Like several others here, I shall wait to read the book before passing judgement.
But it will remain toilet reading.
And it will be the free DL version.

579. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117551 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 5:11 am

pyota

does anyone have a link to the pdf? I could not find it on his blog.

TIA will be available for download as from February 1st apparently.
Read my comment #117533 also.

580. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117533 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 4:23 am

From Vox Day's Blog :

If you just can't wait, hey, go ahead and order one now and give the second one to a friend or whatever, but I'd really prefer for you to participate in the surge if you're only intending to buy one. Yes, of course I will make some money off these book sales, but that's honestly of tertiary significance because the importance of the surge and the book's ultimate success is directly tied to my ability to publish - not write - more books. Regardless of how TIA is received by the market, I will always continue writing and making my books available electronically, but publishers tend to place a certain priority on actually selling dead tree copies. So, if you want to see more of my work in print, please seriously consider ordering several copies of TIA from Amazon next weekend.

What a nasty-minded person I must be for doubting his sincerity. Shame on me.

581. Belief in Belief

Comment #117528 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 3:58 am

Atheist Aspy :

But what are they emotional about? I still don't get it.

People often weep quite copiously when they pluck up the courage to confess to embarrassing things in public. Mormon "testimony bearing" sessions can actually be quite hilarious - to the non-believer. If you've got a Mormon church near to you, and there's nothing interesting being shown at the local cinema, give it a try.
Less amusing is hearing little kids of 8 or 9 saying "IknowthatJosephSmithisaprophetofgodinthenameofjesuschristamen."
And everybody is sooo proud of them.

582. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117526 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 3:50 am

I will be downloading this book when it becomes available on February 1st. Because I'm one of those millions of men who like to read in the bog (keep both ends busy at the same time) and I have the feeling that this kind of literature would be ideal if ever I am constipated.
Seriously.
It's real sphincter-opening stuff.

583. 'Irrational Atheist' trounces God-deniers

Comment #117488 by Richard Morgan on January 29, 2008 at 12:22 am

Spinoza :

But it really does scare and annoy me that with larger numbers, atheism will inevitably have to deal with a lack of intellectual rigour amongst the majority its proponents.

You're talking as if atheism is a cause, or a philosophy. Atheism doesn't have to deal with anything at all! In some countries atheists have to deal with other people - I can understand and sympathise. But language like this really does make atheism sound like a sect or worse, a religion.
How can not believing something have proponents?
It's almost like you're saying, "What scares me is the number of stupid people who don't believe in the tooth fairy."


mrjonno

the vast majority of Europeans are irreligious through not necessarily atheist.

According to official figures, in 2006, 50% of the French population claimed to be catholic. And of these people, 50% also claimed to be atheist.
So in France there are probably more than 10,000,000 atheist catholics.
Which is probably one way of handling weddings and mistresses.

584. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #117374 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 5:10 pm

righton - you urgently need this link!


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

585. Pale Blue Dot

Comment #117373 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Email this video to at least one other person, its your moral duty.

It is.
And I just did.
It's always good to be reminded that the Universe does not revolve around me.

586. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117311 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Artful _Dodger

"Nature abhors a vacuum". Watch this space ...

Is there any difference between the "God of the gaps" and "God, the vacuum-filler"?
(Holy Hoover, these guys, really....)

587. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117308 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 2:32 pm

Steve Zara :

I did not think that much of this article, and I am surprised it has received so much praise here.

Yep - me too.
But perhaps I am less surprised than you.
Many people are still uneasy with the word "atheist" but accept it as a better-than-nothing solution.
When guys like O'Donnell come along with what looks like a nicely reasoned article, proposing a colourless, cholesterol-free, non-fattening,lite, family-viewing alternative, they have a spontaneous sigh-of-relief reaction.
This is not a criticism of all those who have praised the article. Your enthusiasm is understandable. But it might be personally useful for you to analyse the causes of your enthusiasm. (Again - I am not being snide...this time.)


PS Why is it that women never suffer any semantic angst over the word "faith" when it figures in the adjective "unfaithful"?

588. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #117151 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 10:33 am

Teratornis :

We probably don't think as much about the unaggressive varieties, because they don't go around looking for trouble.

But you can bet your booties that Dawkins & Co will weed them out!

589. New atheists or new anti-dogmatists?

Comment #117138 by Richard Morgan on January 28, 2008 at 10:25 am

terradea

…sex is the door to enlightenment…

Does this mean you're an enlightened fucker? Good for you! (Are there monks in your "religion"? Sort of… happy wankers?)


If I may be permitted to use Dawkinsian language, "spiritual" experiences are a misfiring of the religious experience. Take the time to read a few books that trace the history of religions and you'll see that inventing rituals to placate an angry, invisible sky-monster had much more to do with sacrificing virgins than with personal, transcendental experiences.
But when the human brain is used to try to relate to things that don't exist, it does lots of interesting things, ranging from hallucinations to sensations of oneness with the universe.
So, Harris has got it right, to my mind.


My two sons were born and bred in France, in an "atheist" household. They have a problem with the word "atheist", in the sense that they feel slightly insulted to be "labelled" as not believing in things that don't exist. Since (unlike their father) they are reasonable people, they don't feel the need to be "labelled" anti-dogmatist, libre-penseurs or whatever. Neither at a personal nor a social level do these terms have any useful meaning.
For those of you who live in a different social context, I suppose that in the last analysis, you can call yourself what you like. Or as they say in Saint Martin du Touch, "Whatever fizzes your champagne."
I do honestly believe that the human race is slowly evolving (excuse me for using the E-word) towards an intellectual condition where these words will lose their meaning - except for students of history..
But as long as people need to be distinguished from the believing masses, especially if they write books about it, I feel that "new atheists" is just fine… for a time. One day soon, they'll be the "old atheists" - won't they?

590. Interview with Richard Dawkins

Comment #116484 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Sally Luxmoore

Quite apart from the fact that there should be a measure of respect due to such learning, the caller failed to show even common courtesy.
NOT a good advertisement for gentle Christians, meek and mild!

Apart from the fact that John, in being aggressive and arrogant, was clearly just showing off for the benefit of all his fundie pals, was developing a biblical precept "The fool hath said in his heart "There is no God"" - Richard Dawkins says it out loud all over the place, so he must be an even greater "fool".

591. Launch of 'Atheists in Foxholes' Book Anthology

Comment #116470 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Deepthought

If some one were to slowly wean the world of war and violence in gradual stages what would happen?

A lovely idea which does you credit.
I am reading (in French) an interesting book by Alain Bentolilia : Le verbe contre la barbarie (The Word versus Violence) (my poor translation).
The subtitle is: Apprendre à nos enfants à vivre ensemble - teaching our children to live together.
The author believes that the use of language avoids the use of violence. And he develops his idea in a very elegant way.
I would be relieved (and surprised) to see American football replaced by chess. But I'm not holding my breath...
Personally, the closest I've come to participating in a violent sport was queuing to buy a bus ticket in Blida, Algeria. Fortunately, we were all winners, and most survived to actually get on the bus.

592. Launch of 'Atheists in Foxholes' Book Anthology

Comment #116462 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Deepthought :

I find the desire to hurt people so strange

"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his" -General S. Patton.

I am non-violent, but I do desire to hurt that person who desires to hurt me or mine, if hurting him will prevent him from hurting us.
If you accept that principle (it's called self defence) then you end up having to accept the military and war.

593. Loneliness Breeds Belief in Supernatural

Comment #116392 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 11:42 am

markg

I've been married 7 years, but still consider myself a loner.

Somebody once said, "You don't know what loneliness is until you get married."
Oscar Wilde said : "Bigamy is having one husband or wife too many. Monogamy is the same."
And, to finish for today : "My husband and I divorced over religious differences. He thought he was God and I didn't."

594. Loneliness Breeds Belief in Supernatural

Comment #116281 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 6:28 am

Paula

That's what happens when you cross a border collie with a kangaroo.

You've done it again! You've just fucked up all I ever believed about the differentiation of species.
Back to the drawing board for all us biologists, I suppose.
(Talking about dogs - did you know that in the absence of males, bitches can manifest hysterical pregnancies?)

595. Loneliness Breeds Belief in Supernatural

Comment #116274 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 5:50 am

An interesting study. It confirms that the human brain really has evolved to do this kind of thing. Another "misfiring".
In my avatar, god is in the triangles. The brain is so good at leaping to conclusions in the absence of other data.
That it should create imaginary people in the absence of real social contact is just "business as usual".

Paula - you seem to be fine at handling difficult life situations. But if ever your dog starts talking to you, I know some good psychiatrists in your part of the world!

596. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116271 by Richard Morgan on January 26, 2008 at 5:38 am

Scary movies scare some people.
This film is not so different from the evangelical rallies that were common christian fodder in the past.
It's what some christians do.
That someone should be producing this kind of film is unsurprising : Calvinism + modern technology.
It's contents will be disowned by most mainstream christians and ridiculed by everybody else.

597. A Letter From Hell

Comment #115986 by Richard Morgan on January 25, 2008 at 7:51 am

You've seen the film - now, read the book.

598. The real danger in Darwin is not evolution, but racism

Comment #115826 by Richard Morgan on January 24, 2008 at 9:54 pm

Melomel :

Reason is effective in dealing with the natural world, it's just not very effective in persuading most humans.

You're so right. Until not so long ago, people used to say, "I believe what I see." That was fine until the neurosciences started showing us that it is also true to say, "I see what I believe."
Reason can often appear to be persuasive, or to have actually persuaded somebody to change their beliefs, in reality this actually happens much less frequently than we would like to think.
As Françoise DOLTO pointed out, when we read or hear something for the first time, and we get the "Yes, that's so true, of course it's true...."feeling, it's usually much less of discovery than it is a RECOGNITION of something already assimilated as being known in some part of the mind.
Many atheists (including myself) have discovered that atheism is their natural state, and don't have to be persuaded to relinquish their beliefs. We weren't "persuaded" - we just discovered an explanation for what we already believed.
What do you think, all you "New Atheists"? Your experience would be valuable to all of us.

599. Secrets of bird flight revealed

Comment #115774 by Richard Morgan on January 24, 2008 at 6:45 pm

babrock :

If I wrote 'God says kiss this' on my ass....

Have you stopped taking your pills again, you naughty boy?

600. Heath Ledger Death: Baptist Group To Protest At Memorial

Comment #115773 by Richard Morgan on January 24, 2008 at 6:33 pm

rod-the-farmer :Well, I've been trying to follow all the discussions here, and when advice is offered, I try to put it into practice.
Keeping the toilet seat down initially seemed a good idea, and certainly makes for more comfortable seating.
The only problem is that after you've done your business you have to scrape it all up off the floor, open the toilet lid and shovel it in manually, taking care not to splash nearby tooth-brushes or reading matter. So my question is this - is one allowed to lift the toilet seat long enough for the time it takes to dump your load?
I personally hardly ever produce fluorescent ca-ca, and what's worse, I never seem to have an ultra-violet lamp with me when I do.
Though I do agree that toilet talk like this raises the level of the discussion when you're talking about WBC.
Do any of you Bible students know what the book of Leviticus has to say about wiping your bum with a tooth-brush? I believe it's allowed as long as you do it with your left hand.
Or am I getting my religions mixed up again?