Comments by mmurray

Comment #50190 by mmurray on June 15, 2007 at 3:28 pm

This gets a good panning over on the Guardian site.

Michael

602. Can we really learn to love people who aren't like us?

Comment #48957 by mmurray on June 9, 2007 at 6:03 pm

The real battle, and it applies to secular and religious alike, is: can we love, not hate, the people not like us? We are tribal animals.

Yes we are tribal animals. This is one of the major problems with the abrahamic religions. They are particularly intolerant of non-believers because the non-existent god they worship is one of the more jealous and intolerant ones. Personally I don't care if all the believers love me it would be enough if they respected my right to not worship their gods and were willing to put up with the social and political consequences that flow from that respect. I could live with them believing that I and my family are all going to suffer unbearable torture for all eternity if only they would leave me alone in this life.

Michael

603. God is not responsible for war and suffering

Comment #48163 by mmurray on June 6, 2007 at 11:02 pm

It took a bit of googling but here he is

http://johnheard.blogspot.com/2007/06/dreadpublishing-john-heard-in.html

For those not familiar with life in Melbourne I think `Newmaniac' refers to Newman College at Melbourne University a residential college run by the Jesuits.

Michael

604. The Myth of Secular Moral Chaos

Comment #47917 by mmurray on June 6, 2007 at 3:19 am

Because you can *never* know that the to be tortured actually has the knowledge you seek, torture is never justified.

What if you have overheard a terrorist group who have planted a bomb with a timer and a code to stop the countdown. They have said they all know the code. You have one of the group in custody and located the bomb. All you need is for that person to give you the code.

While I don't trust a lot of hypothetical situations this one seems possible.

Michael

605. The Myth of Secular Moral Chaos

Comment #47915 by mmurray on June 6, 2007 at 3:16 am

606. Sen. Clinton: Faith got me through marital strife

Comment #47910 by mmurray on June 6, 2007 at 2:50 am

A pity they couldn't find the courage to say that their faith was their own business. By pandering like this they further erode the already flimsy division between religion and state.

Michael

607. Pell plans fidelity oath for principals

Comment #47909 by mmurray on June 6, 2007 at 2:45 am

Looks like they forgot about the enlightenment down under.

Pell makes it look bad but a lot of people are going to ignore him. More recently he has been telling Catholic politicians in NSW that if they don't vote against stem cell research they might be refused communion. He has been told to stuff off by everybody including the Premier

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200706/s1944347.htm

Michael

608. Religion and Child Abuse

Comment #47560 by mmurray on June 5, 2007 at 12:54 am

You cannot teach children to not believe in anything, for then you teach them to believe in nothing.

No you teach them to believe in nothing without evidence. It's called thinking for themselves.

Michael

609. Beggars belief: Robin McKie on The God Delusion

Comment #47059 by mmurray on June 3, 2007 at 12:12 am

At last something positive in the Guardian.

Michael

610. Atheism shall make you free

Comment #46847 by mmurray on June 2, 2007 at 12:13 am

It is worthwhile following the link below to the comments page. There are some really loony people in my country. Someone who thinks quantum physics can show there is a god of a deist kind. I do know something about quantum physics and this is just rubbish. I did like the one who thought there was a personal god who laughs at their jokes. That's what I need -- my children are growing up and starting to think my jokes are lame.

Michael

611. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46600 by mmurray on May 31, 2007 at 6:55 pm

They might if a believer in alchemy or astrology were running for President. One could say that the New York Times is doing a public service by allowing this man's clearly irrational, ignorant, anti-scientific point of view to be expressed so that people could see him for the small-minded man that he is, and know to vote accordingly.

Good point. I wasn't aware when I posted that he was running for President of the US.

Michael

612. Why Do Some People Resist Science?

Comment #46576 by mmurray on May 31, 2007 at 5:21 pm

Here is an article from The Independent in the UK which I saw this morning. It leaves me really worried about the general public understanding of science. I am happy to concede there may be issues with electromagnetic radiation and they may be more severe in particular people but the general level of woolly thinking is really scarey:

http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2600308.ece

Michael

613. I Believe In Evolution, Except For The Whole Triassic Period

Comment #46575 by mmurray on May 31, 2007 at 5:12 pm

My recent favourite is the one about Christ attacking an abortion clinic

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28817

I liked the line

Federal investigators are similarly baffled, saying that the heavily armed Christ had moved in "mysterious ways."

Michael

614. What I Think About Evolution

Comment #46536 by mmurray on May 31, 2007 at 3:07 pm

Man was not an accident and reflects an image and likeness unique in the created order.

Leaving aside the accident question -- he should read Stephen J Goulds book about the Burgess Shale but maybe he doesn't believe in fossils -- what is this rubbish about a unique likeness. Hasn't he ever seen an ape or a chimp ? Why do we share so much DNA with other living things ? Even if you just look at the human skeleton and the skeleton of most other mammals (eg whales) you can see the similarities: two legs, two arms, five fingers/thumbs at the edge of each leg and arm ...

What a load of rubbish. The NYTimes should be ashamed to allow this to be published. Would they publish a similar article questioning chemistry versus alchemy, astronomy versus astrology?

Michael

615. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45696 by mmurray on May 29, 2007 at 2:07 am

There is an interview here with Somerville on an Australian TV program called The 7.30 Report. It occured last night and was about medical ethics not god.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1935737.htm

Michael

616. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45477 by mmurray on May 28, 2007 at 1:36 am

I didn't ask where Hitchens would be on the shelves but he sure as hell wasn't out in any of the prominent display areas, including best seller area.

Maybe they are under the shelf in plain brown wrappers and you have to ask for them :-)

To continue the off-topic vein: Where does your local bookshop put TGD and other athiest books - science ? religion ? ...

Michael

617. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45476 by mmurray on May 28, 2007 at 1:33 am

Basic presumptions are of great importance in decision making, although often they are unidentified. They allocate the burden of proof. When there is equal doubt about an issue the basic presumption prevails. Richard Dawkins' basic presumption is that there is no God and, therefore, that those who believe there is must prove it. But the equally valid basic presumption is that there is a God and those who don't believe that must prove it. Because both are tenable basic presumptions, both must be accommodated in a secular society.

Does she honestly believe this statement ? I guess Richard can speak for himself but watching him on TV and reading TGD I would think he has no presumption at all but believes that the evidence for there being no god vastly outweighs the evidence for there being a god.

Michael

618. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45243 by mmurray on May 27, 2007 at 12:56 am

This article is also being discussed on the Forums here

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15309

Michael

619. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45240 by mmurray on May 27, 2007 at 12:50 am

If you have interested in the School Chaplains project have a look here

http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/school_education/policy_initiatives_reviews/key_issues/school_chaplaincy_programme/default

It is not as bad as you might imagine, for example the Code of Conduct has

9. While recognising that an individual chaplain will in good faith express views and
articulate values consistent with his or her denomination or religious beliefs, a chaplain
should not take advantage of his or her privileged position to proselytise for that
denomination or religious belief.

On the other hand there is the clear assumption that what appears to be basic psychological support and advice has be provided by a person of faith rather than a qualified professional counsellor.

Michael

620. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45214 by mmurray on May 26, 2007 at 11:11 pm

It disturbs me that she kept referring to exchanges between herself and Professor Dawkins in military terms. It's not a battle or a war, it is an argument. The difference is that in an argument the loser still goes home with all their limbs.

I agree but when you look over history Christians have always had a passion for killing each other over (silly) ideas.

Michael

621. Aiming for knockout blow in god wars

Comment #45209 by mmurray on May 26, 2007 at 10:41 pm

According to the who's who entry in Canada she went to Mercedes College in Adelaide. This suggests she has a catholic background -- as does some random googling. No great suprise I guess.

Michael

622. Busted Halo

Comment #43918 by mmurray on May 23, 2007 at 4:00 am

BustedHalo.com Mission Statement

We live in an age filled with seekers in their twenties and thirties who are desperately trying to find deeper meaning in their lives but whose journey has little to do with traditional religious institutions. BustedHalo.com believes that the experiences of these pilgrims and the questions they ask are inherently spiritual. Based in wisdom from the Catholic tradition, we believe that the joys and the hopes, the griefs and the anxieties of the people of this age are the joys and hopes, the griefs and anxieties of all God's people. Nothing genuinely human fails to raise an echo in their hearts. BustedHalo.com strives to reveal this spiritual dimension of our lives through feature stories, reviews, interviews, faith guides, commentaries, audio clips, discussions and connections to retreat, worship and service opportunities that can't be found anywhere else. We are committed to creating a forum that is:

* open,
* informed,
* unexpected,
* unpredictable,
* balanced, and
* thought-provoking

Every time we ask questions about what our lives mean and what keeps us alive, we are talking about something that's relevant to BustedHalo.com.

It's a long time since I went to Marist Brothers College but I can still spot a trendy priest.

I guess everyone should go to the forum and be open and thought provoking :-)

Michael

623. Despite what the scholars say, God isn't dead yet

Comment #43911 by mmurray on May 23, 2007 at 3:53 am

Check out

http://www.rachaelkohn.com/index.html

Michael

624. Despite what the scholars say, God isn't dead yet

Comment #43906 by mmurray on May 23, 2007 at 3:51 am

What's wrong with eugenics?

Check out the Stephen J Gould book 'The Mismeasure of Man' for a detailed discussion or the article here

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_eugenics.html

for a shorter essay.

Michael

625. Prayer can improve physical health

Comment #43819 by mmurray on May 22, 2007 at 7:15 pm

You can find out about one of the authors here

http://www.kiat.com.au/biography.html

You can find the article here

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/186_10_210507/contents_210507_sup_fm.html

It is in a supplement to the MJA containing the proceedings of a conference Spirituality and Health. Interesting that the reporter grabbed the one with prayer in the title.

The BMI is here

http://www.behavioural-medicine.com/about/index.html

and the Spirituality and Health site who ran the
conference is here

http://www.spiritualityhealth.org.au

Michael

626. Christopher Hitchens Is a Treasure

Comment #43250 by mmurray on May 21, 2007 at 2:40 am

Put another way: Isn't it unlikely that random chance alone has arranged the world so that many human qualities — the very ones that Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, and Jews and Christians find good on other grounds — should also work better for the survival of the human race?

This reminds me of a great quote in, I think, one of Stephen J Goulds books. It is credited to Mark Twain (again I think - if anyone could tell me the source I would be grateful). Anyway it goes something like: `how amazing it is that the Mississippi River manages to meet every tributary, go under every bridge, past every boat ramp and past every fishing pole. Surely this couldn't be random it must be the work of a divine intelligence'.

On the other hand, Judaism and Christianity do add insights and virtues that derive from other forms of intelligence than narrow reason.

This seems to confuse using reason with being Spock.

Michael

627. Freethinking Ruins All Things

Comment #42253 by mmurray on May 18, 2007 at 1:50 am

Just goes to show you can always find a new band of loonies. Haven't seen these ones before:

Statement of Purpose

What's Wrong with the World is dedicated to the defense of what remains of Christendom, the civilization made by the men of the Cross of Christ. Athwart two hostile Powers we stand: The Jihad and Liberalism.

We are happy warriors, for our defense is motivated primarily by gratitude for what our ancestors bequeathed to us. ....

Read the rest at

http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/about.html

Michael

628. Ask Richard!

Comment #41829 by mmurray on May 17, 2007 at 6:38 am

Lets move the `what do you tell your children' discussion over to here

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=225956#225956

Michael

629. Ask Richard!

Comment #41790 by mmurray on May 17, 2007 at 3:35 am

It's important that they see that dying can be painful but not being dead.

Sure you can convince them that it won't be painful but they are also aware of the separation. They fear parents dying and not being with them.

Michael

630. Ask Richard!

Comment #41780 by mmurray on May 17, 2007 at 1:20 am

As a father of 3 children, 8,7, and 4 I cannot bring myself to explain the cold hard facts about the world in which they have found themselves.

I have two of my own. While I lied a bit (not very convincingly!) about Santa Claus until they asked me about it directly I didn't lie about the big things. When they asked me about death I told them what I thought. Thanks to science (and no thanks to religion) you can temper it a bit by saying it isn't likely to happen to them for a long time or yourself (hopefully!) without lying. Of course some children do get sick and die young. I am glad to have been spared explaining to any of mine that they were going to die. That would be tough as would dealing with a parent's death.

Luckily I live in reasonably secular Australia and the kids are not going to come up against religious nuts until they are old enough to know stupidity when they see and hear it. So I didn't talk about god as I don't regard it as important. They didn't ask me about god until the oldest went to school and came home and said `who is this gwod person'! Not a typo -- he misheard. I told him what I thought and he agreed it was a dumb idea.

Don't forget sex, aids, hiv, pregnancy etc unless their school is good at this kind of stuff.

Michael

PS You might want to post this question in the Forums where you are more likely to get feedback.

631. Ask Richard!

Comment #41759 by mmurray on May 16, 2007 at 9:47 pm

Interesting to see McCullough on that page complain about Hitchen not giving a source for some quote of Falwell's about the anti-christ being here already and jewish. 30 seconds googling with "falwell anti-christ jewish" finds lots of links about it.

Michael

632. Hitchens' flat world

Comment #41464 by mmurray on May 16, 2007 at 6:43 am

Why are we here? Why is there something instead of nothing? What is the purpose of human existence?"

42

Michael

633. One side can be wrong

Comment #40805 by mmurray on May 15, 2007 at 2:58 am

Thanks for the alert about the Root of All Evil
Veronique. I don't usually watch Compass but I will this weekend :-)

I was suprised to see the Guardian posting something by Richard but now I see it is an old post.

Michael

634. Let us pray for the soul of Richard Dawkins

Comment #40257 by mmurray on May 14, 2007 at 3:31 am

People might be interested in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Odone

and also the many posts on the Guardian website

Michael

635. Let us pray for the soul of Richard Dawkins

Comment #40256 by mmurray on May 14, 2007 at 3:31 am

In this country, belief is a minority practice and believers a persecuted lot.

I think she needs to think hard about what constitutes persecution. It usually means more than
someone disagreeing with you.

Michael

636. Unintelligent Design

Comment #40027 by mmurray on May 12, 2007 at 6:16 pm

It would be good if these articles were dated. At first I was suprised by:

In recent days President Bush has echoed conservative religious calls to give belief in intelligent design equal time with evolutionary theory in public schools.

as I hadn't seen anaything in the press. But then I followed the link to the original article and noticed it was 30th August 2005.

Michael

637. God . . . in other words

Comment #39187 by mmurray on May 10, 2007 at 6:27 am

If you go to the source you can see a few sentences got missed.

Now I'm the sceptical one. Words have power. He'll never destroy the Church if he doesn't understand the power of the Logos. I'm not superstitious, but there is something faintly transcendent about Dawkins in the flesh. But I didn't tell him that of course. He'd just accuse me of making it up.

The site accepts comments as well.

I assume when she tries to put God in the other dimensions she doesn't know how small they are. They are supposed to be coiled up into something like 10^(-32) cm diameter. I guess God might be a Genie. Really all this `God might be there' is ridiculous. Russell's teapot might be in those other dimensions, my missing socks might be in them. But probably not.

Michael

638. Better God-fearing than sneering

Comment #38728 by mmurray on May 9, 2007 at 4:22 am

What is it with the Guardian? It has always been my favourite paper but if this keeps up I am going to have to think hard next time the Guardian Weekly subscription comes in to be paid.

Michael

639. Unholy row at clergy soccer game

Comment #38117 by mmurray on May 7, 2007 at 2:46 am

i think it was moe likely to be soccer, but a great analogy all the same.

Yep the original BBC heading says soccer.

Michael

640. New Planet Could Be Earthlike, Scientists Say

Comment #35372 by mmurray on April 27, 2007 at 2:41 am

18. Comment #35336 by roach on April 26, 2007 at 10:52 pm
I really hope that we have solid evidence to believe that some type of life exists (or existed) on another planet before I die.

Yes - me to :-) I'm nearly 50 so barring ET landing on earth I think the best bet is Mars if NASA get a move on. I guess things like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Worlds_Imager

could give some information. The Kepler mission might give us an idea of how common rocky planets like earth in the habitable zone are which is an important factor in assessing the likelihood of extraterrestrial life.

Michael

641. Potentially habitable planet found

Comment #35070 by mmurray on April 26, 2007 at 6:05 am

But if they find similar planets, and ones that are within say... 5 lightyears distance, then there's always the possibilty of a 30-60 year mission...

According to this interesting site Google found

http://www.solstation.com/stars/s10ly.htm

the only stars in 5 ly are the Alpha Centauri binary pair and Proxima Centauri.

Michael

642. Potentially habitable planet found

Comment #34916 by mmurray on April 25, 2007 at 3:06 pm

Perhaps this is a stupid point, but...

There is a very big jump from a planet being able to support "life" and finding "intelligent life," no?

No that's not stupid at all. It is a very big jump.

Michael

643. The God disunion: there is a place for faith in science, insists Winston

Comment #34702 by mmurray on April 25, 2007 at 12:42 am

Stew17 says `a strange stance for someone who calls himself a scientist.' I agree but he is a serious scientist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Winston

Michael

644. Shout your doubt out loud, my fellow unbelievers

Comment #34662 by mmurray on April 24, 2007 at 8:28 pm

Those who like to equate athiesm and being left wing might be amused by this

Matthew Parris

Matthew Parris joined The Times as parliamentary sketchwriter in 1988, a role he held until 2001. He had formerly worked for the Foreign Office and been a Conservative MP from 1979-86. He has published many books on travel and politics and an autobiography, Chance Witness, for which he won the 2004 Orwell Prize. His diary appears in The Times on Thursdays, and his Opinion column on Saturdays

(The highlighting is mine.)

There are over a hundred comments on the original site.

Michael

645. Vote for the Time 100 - Are They Worthy?

Comment #34614 by mmurray on April 24, 2007 at 5:26 pm

It would be hard to imagine Rowling having influenced anything more than bank accounts unless there's a "personal fantasy" category that is significant in the course of human development.

She must have done more to get kids reading books in the last ten years than anyone else. Before her the sight of a ten year old sitting reading a 400 page book would have been pretty unusual.

She has also done her bit to annoy the fundies. Probably not deliberately.

Michael

646. Brian Lehrer interviews Richard Dawkins

Comment #34478 by mmurray on April 24, 2007 at 7:26 am

Thus if some creator did start the process of evolution, whether by providing the spark that generated the first self replicating molecules, or creating DNA which superseded those molecules, or some alien who stopped to visit the loo; they couldn't have had humans (or intelligent life) in mind.

Yes they could have us in mind. They just decided to do get to us by a really complicated method: -- poke a bit of pond slime, lob in a meteorite .... Why did they do it that way ? The answer is of course that no-one did anything but if you are religious you will just say that it is all god Moving In Mysterious Ways

:-)

Michael

647. The Great British Literary Census

Comment #31509 by mmurray on April 13, 2007 at 3:35 am

I would have liked 'The Ancestors Tale' on top of the list.

I think the ordering is chronological.

Michael

648. The Great British Literary Census

Comment #31508 by mmurray on April 13, 2007 at 3:34 am

Funny how there are lots of firsts of series: First Rebus book, first Harry Potter, first His Dark Materials. Each person only got to pick five so maybe if there were a couple of series they like dthey would pick the first one as representative.

Michael

649. Even non-believers must recognise the moral necessity of Christianity

Comment #30593 by mmurray on April 9, 2007 at 1:31 am

Ah the old faith is good for us argument. I do however support:

But in our dealings with Islam, it would help us if we had more confidence in our own values and traditions.

Except that I think it is the Enlightenment and Reason that we should believe in not the Resurrection of Jesus Christ which never happened.

Michael

650. Prophets of the new atheism

Comment #30463 by mmurray on April 8, 2007 at 5:55 am

From the Seattle Times website

Letters to the Editor

Letters, not exceeding 200 words, must include your full name, address and telephone numbers for verification. Letters become the property of The Times and may be edited for publication. High volume prevents our acknowledging receipt of submissions.

Send letters to:

Letters Editor
The Seattle Times
P.O. Box 70
Seattle, WA 98111

Fax: (206) 382-6760

E-mail your letter: opinion@seattletimes.com

Michael