651. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #180519 by MaxD on May 15, 2008 at 6:38 am

I also alter spelling and grammar mistakes without saying so.
No biggie that.

Richard Morgan,
You could further the debate, or conversation or whatever it is you come here for by simply stating the events, epiphany experience here in an open and public forum. And here is why that might be something you would want to do.

Here at RD.net many of us have engaged in what I suspect is an often futile pursuit. We debate the creationist/id proponent. I suspect most of us are not laboring under the illusion that we are likely to change any minds. Such folk are too radically set on the position. However there are likely many people who read this site who are curious and have an open mind and are actually willing and able to be swayed by quaint devices like evidence, logic, argument and good humor. Here is your opportunity to explain the religious experience for those still on the fence, willing to be convinced (like most of the posters here I hasten to add, were the evidence compelling) of the worthiness of such endeavors.

If you do not want to do this that is quite fine. But it doesn't speak well for your position, or its strength.

652. Is Science Killing the Soul?

Comment #180429 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 10:14 pm

I don't think he does.
He does not for instance believe in a homunculeus at the screen somewhere in our brain watching our inputs on a movie screen.

Here he is discussing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_r6_GGv3U

653. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #180423 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 9:38 pm

Jesus Christie-O Clearmind
You sir have hit a new low.
P
A
T
H
E
T
I
C
!

654. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #180418 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 9:26 pm

Richad Morgan,

I have never denied that the scientific posture enables considerable intellectual freedom.
(Pat answer N° 1)

Pat and, not entirely consistent with the "strict and limiting" charge you hurled early in this thread.

But I have found a new freedom which I was unable find either in the intellectual brilliance of some posters here, (not this particular thread, alas) or in the "hate'n'bile", mockery posts.(EDITED)

For a fellow who decries the negative tone in this forum you don't mind injecting a little negative into the tone now do you? This is kind of David Robertson trick.

You seem confused by something I've said.

New phenomena? Religious and mystical experiences are "new" phenomena? I think maybe I ma misunderstanding your use of the word "new" in this context.

You may remember that I thought you were discussing consciousness not religion, or mystical experiences. Allow me to address them though. It seems as we don't yet have a good scientific account of religion, though we can explain many spiritual experiences. So yes I think a new, insightful explanation has yet to be proffered for religion and the ill-defined religious experience.
Phenomena can indeed be quite old and still be in need of explanation and research. I was merely saying my own world view would be capable of absorbing new informantion, and new views of the cosmos based on the evidence. More than this I am much more comfortable with ambiguity than you. I'm content to live as if there is no God, not because such a being has been completely disproved, but because there is no proof this being exists, and no reason to infer one there is also no need, as yet to bother with it.

And the argument from incredulity swings for the fences...

And forgive me for being a little suspicious when I read that "consciousness...all boils down" to something. Have you read Pinker on "The Mystery of Consciousness" - "the hard question"?

It may be a mystery, that doesn't mean, insert more-made up-mystery in an attempt to explain an already difficult concept. There may come a point where all the available evidence points toward something non-physical but until then what we do know about conscioussness (still an ill defined concept in my opinion and not one that has yet impressed me as anything more than a Macguffin), let me say human mental states, and awareness seems well rooted in the minutia of the physical. Anyone who finds this hard to even credit as the reasonable position is ignoring the past thirty years of research and discovery.

It is also interesting to read how atheists here are happy to try to describe an experience they have never had. Their favourite word is "fuzzy", but I can assure you that the epiphany experience I had on April 12th was anything but "fuzzy".

I think you would be forgetting that many people here, and many among the non-believing community in general were once believers themselves and know quite well the kinds of experiences of which you speak.

I for one would be anxious to hear about your epiphany experience. I think many folk here would be.

Which brings me to my unanswered point about "qualia" (And I think that this is a good thread for speaking about qualia - don't you?)Maybe you have something to say on that subject?

I think the notion of qualia is putting the cart before the horse, and it seems to neglect all that research I was discussing.

You said:

MaxD Said: it is hard to avoid this clear thinking oasis I know.

Just out of interest, how many of the 86 posts in this thread would answer your definition of "clear-thinking"?

Here is more of that negative Robertson style tone. This is an open forum RichardM, largely unmoderated. Whining about it won't do much to change it, nor does it constitute responding to an argument.

Sauveterre (and anybody else who is interested) - if you are motivated by a genuine sense of inquiry concerning my epiphany experience, then I would be happy to send you a copy. But if you are just looking for another opportunity to mock and insult me, I think I'll have to ask for a rain-check on this one. (Although, if you are really interested, you could find what you want in a few seconds on Google.)

I suggest you just post it here. You were quite content to have your dialogue with Robertson be public despite the ridicule you were sure you would recieve. (You will note that the preponderance of the response here was one of worry for you and your mental state.) I suggest you just brave the storm and publish your epiphany here. I am sure you are right that there may be some ridicule. What are you so worried about?

655. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #180217 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 11:36 am

Reverand Dark,
I think you have missed some key evidence that suggests that Middle Earth actually was within the scope of human history.
Gandalf will be back one day....
I just know he will.
Now I have to go prepare an acheological exploration for Aragorn's lost tomb. I'm in talks to have Geraldo Rivera do a documentary about the excavation. It should make for some riveting TV. Like discovery channel programs about dragons, and yetis.

656. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #180213 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 11:32 am

Hello Richard Morgan, it is hard to avoid this clear thinking oasis I know. But what do you hope to find here now that you have found Jesus? You are trying out some neat pat answers. Hopefully you will not avoid answering the tough questions sent your way in return. This is, sadly, an altogether common tactic of the theists who visit our little on line community. So if you are going to stay do so in the spirit of actual dialogue.

You said,

My question is this: how does saying that it's all down to molecules and neurones make "atheism" any less "strict and closed"? Are you saying that since that which is apparently being perceived in the "religious" experience in unverifiable by scientific method, it's best to stick to the experience of perception which can observed and described to a certain extent?
If so, what do you make of the whole "qualia" aspect of all this?

It is quite simple, suggesting that it (what do you mean by it exactly I am assuming consciousness) all boils down to molecules and neurons actually fits the known facts. Adopting the scientific posture enables the freedom you don't think is there. You see my world view can adopt new phenemena and their explanation as evidence comes in to support them.

The religious experience itself seems easy enough to observe. It is all the accompanying metaphysics that is the problem. It is the fact that simpler explanations will do while the grander proclaimations of faith sit and stew in a great big fat nothing. No evidence.
None.
Zip.
Zilch.
Nada.
Nil.

Theology-that is the study of the mind of god, and his/her attributes, is an empty intellectual picnic basic. It looks nice on the outside, but inside you have nothing.

657. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #180204 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 11:15 am

Al,
A key part of achieving a goal is actually setting it in the first place! You are well on your way to success sir!

About the Lastgreekstanding post, I expected a better class of argument from Robert Trivers.

658. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #180202 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 11:12 am

Al,
I see how that could easily be the case.
I know at my own college, none of the Palestinian women I hung out with wore the veil. Though they fell differently on drinking, and sexual activity some leaning more western, and some no so much. However I did notice that many of the muslim men were more or less vicious in their critique of the highly westernized, sexually active, and freely drinkin' Palestinian women. The men were this way even if they themselvese were less than observant Muslims. I don't want to draw too much from that. It is a small sample size after all. But it always bothered me.

659. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #180193 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 11:01 am

Jayalenic,
I am not sure the word who was necessary to my sentence, or would be considered a gramatical mistake of the class you so often make. But if it is then I thank you for the correction. I will have to go look the expected usages up to be sure.

EDIT: Horrible, horrible read on my part, it was actually completely necessary and the kind of error you so commonly make. I apologize. Silly me. Thanks Jayalenik, now you will get to point out two of my errors! Enjoy!

660. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #180188 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 10:55 am

I have to say, I like watching Al and Fanusi spar. I like that there are serious points of agreement and disagreement between them. It gets heated sometimes but I think I learn alot, find things to go look up, and in general feel quite edified.
Thanks guys.

661. Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

Comment #180179 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 10:42 am

Lastgreekstanding (Are you reallyRobert Trivers? It is not entirely clear as you refer to him in the third person, and then sign off as him later)
Well if you are Robert Trivers...

In the past, I've found your work to be fascinating however your brilliance in one area doesn't seem to necessarily translate to brilliant and cogent argument in another.

I think that you might want to actually read the work of Harris more thoroughly before attributing racists sentiments like "brownie" to him. This is a low way to begin an argument. You will want to note that Harris is campaigning hard to set up funds and faciliaties for oppressed muslim women, and is a staunch defender of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Has Sam missed the fact the she is also one of these "brownies?"

Perhaps you would do well to watch his debate with Christopher Hedges where it is clear was not in favor of US policy in Iraq, and nor has he been anything but a staunch critic of any fundementalism, whether it be Christian, Jewish, or Islamic. He is not the rabid neocon you seem to wish him to be. Agree or disagree with him this is quite fine, but you will have to drop the bullshit tactics ascribing racist sentiment to him.

662. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #180169 by MaxD on May 14, 2008 at 10:18 am

Al,
Its important that Fanusi, were he to join, keep in mind that being highly emotional can get you, and yours in a lot of trouble. With the enemey, with superiors and of course the law.

He could get some money for college, or having a degree (if this is the case) he could enter as an officer. Though sometimes foreign Universities are not vetted sufficiently so degrees (esp in medicine and health related fields) are not always recognized.

Was that the kind of imput you were looking for Al?

Also you said,

Well having discussed this with many Muslim women, I notice they defend the institutions most vigorously. In fact on Egyptian University campuses, women have taken to wearing the veil as a way of asserting their identity. It shouldn't be assumed that Islamism is solely male dominated.

Is this trend of women wearing the veil as a sign of pride and solidarity a growing trend? At my wife's med school there were several Muslim women wore the veil as part their "muslim identity." Whatever the fuck that might mean. At least one of them drank in a manner any westerner might label, excessive.

663. Richard Dawkins discusses Einstein's new letters

Comment #179886 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:52 pm

MindRebel,
I think that you could in no way call him a deist either. Perhaps a pantheist but it is clear that whatever stuff Spinoza's God (the only God Einstein even seems to have fancied) is, it is not the kind of Godstuff the religious tend to like, endorse or even tolerate very well.

664. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179883 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:37 pm

Excellent jayalenik. I will certainly keep that foremost in my mind when I address posts to you. It won't stop me posting, but it will help me to remember that you might be a bit of a tosswad on the return.

665. Vatican: It's OK to believe in aliens

Comment #179881 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:27 pm

I don't think the Vatican's chief astronomer has really thought this through. I cannot wait to hear Pop Benedict to loose some theological effluent on this matter.

666. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179878 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:19 pm

Hopefully you won't think me too flip in my comment. I've been puzzling over our policy on these matters myself. I mean I have a friend who said he watched a woman get stoned to death while he was stationed over there. This seems counter intuitive to me in the extreme.

667. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #179866 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 10:50 pm

Oh shit! Sorry I didn't even notice the ancientness of the last post. Oh well.

668. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179856 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 10:11 pm

SSG Davis,
I suppose a little .223 buys a lot of influence in such situations!

669. Debate between Richard Dawkins and John Lennox

Comment #179852 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 9:57 pm

Dianelos Georgoudis,
You said:

Agreed, even though I wouldn't so much say "burden of proof" but "burden of justification". For example I cannot prove the proposition "No teapot is orbiting the Sun" but I can justify my belief in that proposition. In any case I have assumed the burden of justifying my claim that idealistic theism works much better than naturalism as a description of objective reality.

You sir don't get it. And that is too bad because you are spending so much of your precious time, and energy on a silly exercise. You have illustrated perfectly why you should feel free to disregard the teapot hypothesis because it violates the probable based on what we know about teapots, china integrity and the general location of such things as they. Until actual proof of the tea pot comes along there is no reason to accept the claim.

This burden of justification is easily the dumbest thing I've ever heard. For one thing it is relative, your justification is an excuse for me to fake sneeze while sneaking out the word bullshit. It is certainly no reason whatsoever for anyone to take the claim, "idealistic theism works much better than naturalism as a description of objective reality" seriously. For such a positive claim requires positive evidence to justify the adoption of new explanatory apparatus. That brings us back, I am afraid, to the pesky burden of proof, that I regret to inform you still rests on your shoulders.

Now if what you meant was something like, "well for me, I think that pheneomna x justifies a belief in deities...uh...for me I mean." Well then good for you. Of course that would useless but whatever floats your boat.

670. God seekers go public

Comment #179846 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 9:37 pm

They are a crafty lot these creationist idiots. I've noticed that some of silly ID/creationist visitors are starting to try to co=opt the phrases we use. Artful Dodger, or was it seeker of truth, or no I think it was another one, anyway they tried to use "naturedidit" as if it were the same baseless class of explanation (s)he and his/her ilk are so fond of formulating.

These folk may be untutored in the ways of science but they can be crafty and ruthless in their appeals to uneducated, thoughtless credulity. I worry that we scientists and rationalists and humdrum realitists are not up to the challenge of taking it to these liars. I think Krauss's science debate is a step in the right direction. But these guys have more political muscle than I like to think about.

671. God seekers go public

Comment #179819 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 8:13 pm

Diacanu,
I think that is a fair assessment of the formation of our anti-intellectual soil.

672. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179809 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 7:51 pm

jayalenik,
In such venues as these punctuation is actually important. It can help us tell when you are joking, putting together connected thoughts and ideas as well as convey tone. We all understand that nobody posts perfectly every time but a little more effort on your part would only add to the clarity of any dialogue in which you are engaged.

673. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #179623 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:51 pm

We do indeed. But I can't think of them at the moment either.

674. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179621 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:50 pm

Annabanana,
Clearly we were all joking.

Smelly hippie!

Meatheads must stick together

:-) Now if only I had an actual emoticon.

675. The Neural Buddhists

Comment #179617 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Mysticism and science are joining hands? What a goofy essay.

676. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179607 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:29 pm

Smelly hippie!
Meathead
And I thought this was a den of harmony. But alas...: )

677. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179596 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:21 pm

I think I just detected a bit of rudeness of attitude toward the lifting of excessive weight coming from the direction of one Annabanana.

678. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179585 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:15 pm

While you guys are doing an Ironman triatholon, I will content myself with my normal workouts and then I will, in your honor, watch Marvel Comics latest movie masterpiece of the same name.

679. God seekers go public

Comment #179575 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Frankus,
I think this is why they are always hankering after proof. Their faith is never, ever enough. This has likely always been so, but in days past it was easier to manufacture the religious miracle (though your Benny Hinn example shows the credulous will still flock to such charlatans). In the modern era the only way to shore up such obviously infantile beliefs is to hope that they will be verified by science.

As I said, faith just isn't enough, and the truly religious don't want to depend on it. Why? Because religion, contrary to what Pascal suggested, is actually an expensive commitment. Who wants to donate time, money and the forfeiture of perfectly harmless experiences on a highly improbably maybe?

680. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179566 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 12:00 pm

Riandouglas, Annabanana!
That ain't excersizin'

That's fancy movin about!

Kidding of course.
Triatholons and biking are quite cool.

681. God seekers go public

Comment #179561 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:55 am

What is such bullshit is this looking for things to shore up the conclusion they've arrived at in absence of the facts.

I think PhilRimmer's axiomatic, "When you go looking for God you will find God, better to just go looking" is appropriate here.

They are "designed for developing and testing the case for Intelligent Design." (emphasis added) That sounds nothing like science. The testing part seems good and where it all should start. They want to claim to have an established theory, when all they have are exploded hypotheses.

This religious campaign to insinuate their pet theology into science classrooms continues to sicken. And its ability to do this seems, like the expansion of our universe, to be accelerating!

682. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179550 by MaxD on May 13, 2008 at 11:45 am

Annabanana said it most clearly when she complained about a certain someone's lack of punctuation.

Just to bring it back to bench pressing, I am a bit miffed that Al and I have the same bench press max. Call it my competitve nature.

I weigh 225 though, so I will still claim victory as Al does outweigh me, if memory serves.

683. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179209 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 9:55 pm

I think he is what passes for a moderate in Britain.
Of course this kind of behavior is inhuman. But that is what happens when you have a mental malfunction like religion pulling your levers.

684. Americans pray at the pump for cheaper petrol

Comment #179208 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Quill,
Do you really need to ask that particular question?
Did they vote for Bush?
They think prayer works.....
I bet the answer is yes.

685. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179201 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 9:30 pm

Goldy,
I failed to mention the place I was refering to when I mentioned the gang rape of the girl for the "offence" of sitting in a car with an unrelated male. It was in Saudi Arabia.
Here is how that turned out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7096814.stm

686. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179198 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 9:23 pm

Goldy,

You are picking abnormal situations and colouring it to fit a stereotype.

I am not. I hope you are right. You want to focus on a mother's poignant reaction to the brutal murder of her daughter. I too hope it is a sign things a larger sentiment.

I will use as counter-example the more or less dishonest moderate Muslim man who did not want to answer Dawkin's question about the penalty for apostacy in Islam. I hold this example in my mind to give me pause.

687. The Stupidity of Dignity

Comment #179192 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 9:10 pm

Adonais,
It seems that the mistake goes deeper than that, because Bobby G also collapses one of his dignities into autonomy, the concept Pinker thought more important for forming a serious bioethics upon.

688. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179171 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 8:17 pm

Goldy,
I think you are maybe a bit off base when you say,

They do not think the same as normal people - the mother's reaction is proof enough for me that this is a rather extreme view and not one the Islamic, and indeed Arab, world would totally agree with.

I think you ought to go back to the article and re-read the parts where the police let the guy go after commending him for jobs well done and all that.

Or maybe you should read up on the joys Afghan women face should they be stupid enough to be progressive and want an education. Or maybe there is the incident where that gang of muslim men gang raped a girl for having the temerity to sit in a car with a male.

While many muslims in say Britain and the US are quite progressive, many, altogether too many are not. And even if they wouldn't beat and kill and stab their own children they would make other strange, ancient demands of obdience to ancient codes of conduct.

689. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179122 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 5:36 pm

KaiserKriss,

The worst thing Bush and Blair did was to invade Iraq on false pretenses, just because they had a hate on for Saddam. Instead they should have tried to repair relations, encourage commerce and education to build up the country to act as another example for other Muslim countries that religious fanaticism self defeating in the long run.

I don't think there was any way to normalize relations with Saddam. He himself fought any normalizing measures.

690. The Stupidity of Dignity

Comment #179121 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 5:27 pm

Double Bass Atheist,
Did you see the poster for expelled?
It said "Big Science wants to blah blah blah." I would draw your attention to the phrase big science. I laughed out loud while I was standing in line to see Iron Man when I saw that line.
Big Science Ben Stein in his school boy outfit, and his idiot smirk. I wondered if that smirk is because he knows the trick he is about to pull on American audiences.

Stein is another neocon voice that would have the universities discredited in a big way simply because that is where much of what is called liberal criticism is born. Science is of course a huge villain to the neo-con movement, but so is serious art, and literature.

EDIT: I think Dairy Queen, that most insidious, and debauched of American institutions is now my very favorite eatery.

691. The Stupidity of Dignity

Comment #179103 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 2:49 pm

BW022,
You make an excellent point but you miss one as well, or at least you seem too. This kind of bullshit is hindering actual research that the US is more or less well suited to be undertaking. As such it is not an overstatement to say such policies are reducing the quality of life and the life expectancies of millions.

This kind of theostupidity has been instrumental in the application of pressure for abstinence only sex education, and against the wider distribution of the HPV vaccine. The concerns of men and women like Kass have insured that more women will contract HPV and that teen sexual activity will, when it occurs, more reckless than if they'd had more comprehensive sex ed.
Those are just two examples.

692. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #179100 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Calilasseia,
Another excellent post, in a sea of them. I'm unsure how it is possible that txpiper can really avoid the arguments put forth by you, the reverend dark and many other's besides. I'm also unsure how it is that txpiper can be so deluded as to the history of his own pseudo-science of creationism.

He said,

I don't know of anyone who resists the idea of speciation, or microevolution, adaptation and selection for that matter. These are all indisputable.

His own side in this debate for years said such things specifically did not happen and had never been proven. Before that, it was where are the transitional species (this charge can still be heard and I think even txpiper has issued a species of the charge). And doesn't this admission that adaptation, selection and yes even speciation are legitamate natural processes do in his claim elsewhere that things are in woeful decline? Me thinks txpiper might want to better think through his biological hypotheses.

693. 'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Comment #179033 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 12:18 pm

I guess I am at least happy that Muhammed was less speciest than I had orignally supposed. He would have likely tried to share his revelation with Homo erectus, habilis and Homo neanderthalensis and while the message is still utterly stupid, that generosity must be commmended.

694. Evolution: What is 'Natural'?

Comment #179028 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 12:10 pm

It was disgusting, you say true, I say thank ye. To quote a favorite book of mine.

695. Evolution: What is 'Natural'?

Comment #179024 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Mphil,
What I remember from Baby Bible Bashers wasn't the spiritual depth of the little preachers it was their child's desire to get approval from their parents and the way the parents almost don't even acknowledge their existence apart from the God context-or worse yet the money earning context.

696. The Stupidity of Dignity

Comment #179021 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 12:00 pm

Robert Maynard,
This we seem to be doing even as we speak. For a little while anyway.
If you look in any gym in any town in the US you will find people looking better and younger than they would have just 10 years ago. Athletes seem to be pushing their competitive years further in sports that are notoriciously rough on older atheletes. Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell are both old men who really ought not be doing as well as they do in combative sports.

697. Evolution: What is 'Natural'?

Comment #179018 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 11:57 am

Damnit MPHil did beat me to it.

698. Evolution: What is 'Natural'?

Comment #179017 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 11:56 am

Artful Dodger,
Would say then that the born again experiences of Jesus Camp are good or bad? Would you agree with the tactics of such evangelicals?

699. The Stupidity of Dignity

Comment #179013 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 11:52 am

Kass is a moron and his ice cream pontifications are proof of this sad fact.

There are those of the this is not my God bent who say Dawkins, Hitch, Harris, Dennett are not speaking to them or the millions who have a more reasoned faith. However I keep telling such people they are in the tender minority of religious apologists.

Doesn't this lend some more weight to the argument made most clearly by Hitch and Dawkins I think that embedded in much of Christian theology is a tendency to totalitarian ideology?

700. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #178967 by MaxD on May 12, 2008 at 10:24 am

I heard a lot of thunder this week. TOCT, do you suspect this is part of the endtimes?