651. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242663 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 10:11 am

Sciros,






I didn't know that.



I tell you one thing, Krav Maga has helped me understand the Jewish mentality about "Never Again". I took a nasty knee to the stomach yesterday.

652. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242659 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 10:08 am

Peace,

That's irrelevant now when we are talking about the right to return. So was the US, but that doesn't have a discriminatory immigration policy.

Israel requires a discriminatory immigration policy. Non-Jews coming to Israel would spell death for the Jewish state, which remains the only hope for Jews to escape discrimination. Israel is "A State by and for the Jews", that is its definition, it has no constitution, nor a bill of rights. The government could censor any publication it wanted at any time, but it doesn't? There is something peculiar about Jewish culture that maintains the positive aspects of Israeli culture. I think changing that demographic could change all that is good about Israel.

Israel must remain a Jewish state, defined by its Jewishness, as long as anti-semitism persists in a virulent form defining Jews. Anti-semites defined Jews, Jews reacted and defined themselves in a state. They have every right to maintain this definition so long as the anti-semite's definition exists.

653. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242656 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 9:58 am

Peace,

Perhaps black people who suffer racist attacks should move to Ghana or Kenya? We should also allow the gay community to annexe San Francisco, and the next time Steve gets called a faggot, he can have free pass to live there?

No. Israel was founded on land that was not a state. San Francisco is sovereign US territory, it cannot be a political haven for gays (despite all appearances otherwise) with special immigration laws.

All of my arguments are based on the fact that the Jews created a state that was built on land that was not a country, it was on land purchased from the local population (mostly), and it was sanctioned by the world. It was the World League/UN that agreed to divide the Palestine Mandate between Jews and Arabs. The Jews made a state, the Arabs made a war.

The sad fact is that populations often need to be divided. India/Pakistan, Yugoslavia, Israel/Palestine, etc... This is because there is usually one group that cannot stand the other. The Serbs are genocidal whacks that wanted to cleanse themselves of Bosnians and Kosovars. The Muslims of Pakistan refused to live with the Hindus (Muhammad Ali Jinna quipped "We eat cows, they worship them, how can we live together?") and the Arabs refused to accept any Jewish sovereignty.

Is there any stateless land left?

654. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242655 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 9:52 am

Chewebarber,






Let's not forget, the PFLP was headed by George Habash who was a Christian.


The people who hijacked the El AL flight from Tel Aviv to Paris were Palestinian Communists and East Germans. They flew the plane to Entebbe in Uganda, Israeli special forces stormed the airport killed all the terrorists, 12 Ugandan soldiers, and destroyed all the Ugandan MiGs on the ground. They only lost one Israeli soldier (another was paralyzed for life) and one hostage.

Anyhow, the PFLP was a Palestinian terrorist group which was Marxist/Leninist in ideology.

There have been Christian suicide bombers in both Israel and Lebanon.

The destruction of Israel is both an Islamic and Arab goal. Nasser was a secularist, he tried to destroy Israel, as did Sadat. The Ba'athists in Syria attempted to destroy Israel as well... numerous times.

655. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242648 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 9:38 am

Peace,

Yes. I agree. My point was that I oppose any country that does not choose something inclusive.

Fine by me, but please keep in mind the reality that exists.

Practising ethnic exclusivity is not the answer.

Actually it is the answer. The Jews need their own place. And the fact that the people who wish to flood their country also want them exterminated makes it all the more necessary.

That's not ever going to help each group tolerate and accept each other.

The Muslims will never tolerate Jews. They can't. The entire faith is built upon disdain and contempt for Jews. The only way to teach them tolerance is to get rid of Islam. The Jews will never be "accepted" in the Muslim world.

Muhammad assassinated individual Jews, he exterminate the Banu Qurayza (Jews), he killed all the male Jews in Khaybar and took their women and children as sex slaves. He laid down the example, it is permissible to exterminate Jews, rape their women, and steal their property. If they submit to your rule, you may humiliate them, tax them into poverty, assault them, and transfer the population at will.

Where do Israelis make similar statements, except in the extreme fringe, which is already a target of the Shin Bet?

Even if I accepted Al's argument above that is was necessary just after the war, times have changed in Europe and America.

How do the Muslims of Eurabia feel about Jews? How do those Muslims in Undercover Mosque feel about Jews? Do they want them for neighbors, friends, business partners? No, they want them dead. Synagogues and Jewish cemeteries are rountinely desecrated in Europe, mostly by Muslims, but also by native fascists. The Jews still need a state.

There is no need for this racist law now. Israel can have a modern immigration policy like any other democratic country.

Yes there is. Anytime a Jew, living abroad is attacked or discriminated against, he or she can come to Israel. There is a large Israeli military waiting to assist any Jews in keeping themselves alive. Israel needs to control immigration because Arabs would gladly migrate for the purpose of destroying Israel.

I think there are moderate muslims who will. We need this sub-group to expand.

What exactly is a moderate Muslim? Where do I find them? Do they reject Jihad? Muhammad's example? Muhammad's example is one of Jew hating violence. So do they reject Muhammad or not? There is no moderation... moderates are apostates because they deny Allah's words that curse the Jews for all eternity.

656. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242646 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 9:25 am

Fanusi,





No hard feelings at all.


The moral argument against Judaism stands in my mind, as an argument against Iron Age religion. I consider Zionism to be undesireable in a vacuum, however there is no vacuum, Zionism is a necessity in a world that said the Jews have no right to live.

It would be one thing if anti-semitism was about religion, but it isn't it is ethnic. Some examples:

Under the Almohids, the Muslim ruler would force Muslims who had converted from Judaism (done so no doubt, to avoid jizya) to wear special sleeves to identify them. He also forbade them to wear turbans or to ride horses. This was Islamic racism, not just Shariah supremacy.

Morocco is often trotted out as a model for Arab tolerance, yet the Jews there suffered under pogroms. They were forced to move to the Mellah in Fez and wear straw sandals when they left. They had their daughters kidnapped in raids and forced to convert to Islam. The Sultan forced Jews to work on the Sabbath. And since you mentioned the Berbers, the Sultan (in the late 19th century) raided a Berber rebel camp, decapitated 48 rebels, and forced the Jews to salt the heads on a Sabbath. The Jews that refused had their homes stormed and were flogged until the complied. The Jizya persisted into the 20th Century in Morocco.


In light of this, a "State for Jews" is fine by me.




You are right, Jihad is an eternal state. It is broken by a hudna (truce), truces are only acceptable in Islam so long as it is designed for the Muslims to strengthen their army and rearm themselves. They can be violated at any time by the Muslims to reinitiate hostilities and force the non-Muslims to either convert or be killed.

Dar al-Harb is just that... a realm of war, forever, always.

657. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242643 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 9:04 am

Peace,




My point was it is up to the citizens of those countries to decide how they define themselves. I hope they choose something inclusive.

658. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242640 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 8:55 am

epeeist,





What is irony? I irony'd my shirt this morning before work.



The question wasn't designed to be either or, and it isn't the situation as I see it, or want it. The question was designed to explore your instinctual moral impressions of two opposite powers.

I used to be VERY anti-Israel, until I asked my self that question. It showed me that in my rational mind that I really didn't feel Israel was functionally or theoretically evil. And I also felt, rationally, that a fanatical state was more likely to use WMD. This also changed a lot of my views on other conflicts.

I spent a lot of time and energy being DEAD WRONG about Israel.


Although I still disdain the settlers and other Jewish fanatics.

659. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242637 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 8:46 am

Bonzai,







What I said was Ahmedinejad does not have the final authority, the Supreme Leader does. This means that Ahmedinejad cannot start a nuclear war all by himself, he needs the supreme leader. The supreme leader has issued a rebuke here and there, but this doesn't mean that Iran isn't a threat, it means that they might be playing it smart. The leadership all has its own opinion, but the overriding opinion is that Israel should be expunged from the page of time. This was Khomeini's stance, and this is the stance of the leadership today.

The Ayatollahs hold final power, not the president, but it is only the sheer madness of Ahmedinejad that makes the ayatollahs look moderate. The ayatollahs routinely sign off on executions of gays and adulterers, and they lead the chants of "death to Israel" in the friday sermons.






Peace,

All I was getting at is that any citizen afforded equal rights in a democracy is fully involved in the polical process. Therefore they do not need to join a sub-group carved out of the populace and demand self-determination.

Well Jews weren't afforded equal rights in Europe. And they suffered discrimination everywhere. The rights are theoretical, the discrimination was very real, everywhere.

I still feel that the Aliyahs were more akin to systematic colonisation than the way you have described, but fully accept the backwards thinking of the local arabs in this context

Maybe they were, but it turned Israel into a flourishing mutli-ethnic multi-religious democracy. And what did the Arabs produce? Cess pools of hate and incompetence. These Aliyahs settled Jews on land owned by the JNF, not Arab land.

The fact that the world treated jews so badly is of course a strong reason for the creation of Israel. However, I remain uncomfortable with Zionism as a movement. I don't think there should be anywhere in the world which is 'for' a certain group of people, and therefore theoretically 'not for' other groups of people.

I share your discomfort. But Israel is also for the Arab citizens of Israel. It is for the Baha'is who have their International House of Justice there.

Do you think, for example, that Israel should continue to regard itself as a 'Jewish state'?

That is an issue of self determination. Should Iran be a Muslim state? Pakistan the same? Mauritania? Saudi Arabia? I would prefer there were no insitutionalized ethnic discriminations, but it was ethnic discrimination that necissitated a Jewish state. So as long as people promise to exterminate Jews, I think a Jewish state is necessary.

660. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242629 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 8:12 am

Quetz,




Plus I think the Jews would feel like unwelcome house guests in a devestated country which couln't really support them.... which would have led to more resentment of Jews.

661. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242628 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 8:09 am

Peace,

But it wasn't like it was a series of private transactions as you put it. It was succesive waves of organised colonisation.

Actually it was. The Jewish National Fund gathered funds and purchased the land from individual Arab owners. This was done to the point that about 90% of what became Israel was land owned by Jews. So individual Arab landowners sold the land they owned to the Jews. So the Jews owned the land to the point of being totally dominant. The Arabs could always have shown some solidarity, but selling your land to the Jews doesn't say much for your interest in self determination.

It wasn't fine with the arabs.

Actually it was. They sold the land to the Jews. And the West Bank was supposed to become part of Transjordan, but the Jordanians never conferred statehood upon the Palestinians. Why is that the responsibility of Israelis? If the Arabs cared about Palestinians they would have spent their time helping them instead of using them as an excuse to attempt to exterminate the 800,000 Jews in newly formed Israel.

Are you suggesting a solution could have been to remove all the arabs once the jews arrived?

No. But you said self determination is the ability to live in any country where you vote, which of course it isn't.

This is where the world did truly fuck up by pushing the jews towards Israel after the war. I don't disagree with your point here, but lets not forget Zionism started before the war.

Zionism is ancient, but modern Zionism was a direct result of European anti-Semitism. The Dreyfus Affair sprayed fuel on the fire of Zionism, it showed the Jews that they were not welcome in Europe, nor would they be treated as equals. It would be nice if the blood libel didn't exist, if the Protocols were never written, if Muhammad didn't exterminate the Banu Qurayza and curse all Jews, but those are realities, and Zionism is the consequence and the partial solution.

662. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242623 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 7:46 am

Peace,

They should have been able to go where they stood. They should have been able to belong to any decent country in the same way as christians, but as you say

I am sure all the "should's" are comforting, but the reality is they COULDN'T. Saying "This is how history SHOULD have been" doesn't change the tragedy of the Jewish existence.

663. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242621 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 7:42 am

Quetz,





America had quotas on Jewish immigrants. They had literally NOWHERE to go.




Peace,



What about the fact that the Arabs who later became "Palestinians" sold much of their land to Jews? The JNF owned most of what became Israel long before it became Israel. The Arabs sold themselves out, tough cookies.

Now I know my post was simplistic and phrased somewhat deliberately inflammatory, but this whole view that the land is somehow 'theirs' annoys me.

I didn't say that, I said it was the homeland of their ancestors. It became theirs when they purchased it from the Arabs. If I go to a stateless land and buy land from the inhabitants and make a state, that doesn't violate any law I can think of.

Who gives a fuck who's 'ancestral homeland' it was? Its all about who is there now. Peple alive today cannot claim rights because of things long-dead people did.

I sure don't but if the Jews want to live there, fine with me.

I'd apply this same logic to American Indians, Aborigines and such like. So long as they have equal rights and are not persecuted, just get on with it. Descendents of settlers do not owe you a living.

Jews did not have equal rights in Europe, they were excluded. And Arab Jews endured pogroms and the jizya. The only place that would treat Jews decently was going to be a Jewish state.

That Jewish people lived in Palestine hundreds or thousands of years ago should not be a major consideration.

I view Israel in secular terms. It just so happens that Jews chose the land of their ancestors. There is a strong Jewish tie to the land, that is fine with me, but Israel is a largely secular nation and Zionism a secular movement.

"Self-determination" is another great phrase. In what way is a Jewish American less involved in democracy than you, Al? If you live in a democracy you have as much self-determination as the next person.

Okay then why didn't Palestinians just go live in an Arab state, since it's all the same anyway? Why do they get a special country in the West Bank, an Arab is an Arab right?

Now the Jews had quotas placed on them in terms of immigration in the US, where would the refugees from the Holocaust go? Back to Germany, after the world let the Germans murder them? To Russia which persecuted its Jews? To Britain which didn't want Jews? To France, that immediately surrendered to the Nazis and didn't protect its own populace much less its Jewish citizens.

The Jews were singled out and persecuted, why should they finally wake up and realize that the world treated them as a singular group and define themselves as such, create a state, and refuse to be persecuted?




*EDIT* Don't forget that plenty of Jews lived in Palestine before Israel. Jews have long lived there, even under the Ottoman system of millet. So it wasn't like there were not Jews there already.

664. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242611 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 7:14 am

epeeist,






The question says to me "I am less worried about Israel using nuclear weapons in an offensive fashion."

This is because nothing in their religious doctrines demands extermination of the non-Jew. This is especially so because they make up a secular state.

The question described what I feel are the important differences that go into the thought of using weapons of mass destruction. I don't feel Jews are a threat to anyone as long as "anyone" doesn't try to "expunge them from the page of time" as Ahmedinejad puts it.... routinely.

665. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242610 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 7:08 am

Peace,

Yes, and when Al is in the mood he has plenty of youtube links and quotes of Jewish barbarism against arabs.

Oh yes I do. I don't care for Judaism very much, that is for sure.

There are some important differences:

1) These Jews are a minority.
2) Most Israelis disdain them and consider them outcast whackjobs.
3) They don't carry a great deal of political authority.
4) They don't wield much political power.


Now here is another difference. Iran funds and supports Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah. They spend about 2 billion a year on it. Now how does Israel deal with Jewish terrorists? Here's how, the Shin Bet (Internal Security Service) carries out surveilance against radical Jews, it goes undercover, it arrests and prosecutes Jews who attempt to carry out terror attacks against Arabs. It banned Meir Kahane from the Knesset because he advocated expulsion of Israel's Arabs. How do Palestinians deal with terrorists??? They throw street parties after suicide attacks and after 9/11.

After Israel was created it immediately enacted anti-terror laws..... to stop JEWISH terrorists, not Arabs. Israel immediately dealt with its own terrorist problems. The Muslims have never acted to seriously curb terrorism against the "filthy" Jews.

If the jews weren't so stupid as to want to live in a hostile place just because of a magic book, then things would not be so bad for them. That does not in any way excuse the awful muslim bigotry against them.

How dare the Jews want self determination in their ancestral homeland. You think it would be better if the Jews took over some land in Africa??? Those people are LESS genocidal than the Arabs?

No, Palestine was as good a choice as the next place to be honest.

666. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242606 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 6:54 am

Peace,





I agree. I think Israel's "strategic ambiguity" violates a number of international agreement. I wish Israel didn't NEED nuclear weapons.


As for the Arabs, I agree, they got a bit of a raw deal. The Palestinians were not a national group, Palestinian identity was largely developed around the creation of Israel, and the period immediately before this.


Also, the land that Israel turned into the state was often purchased. Jews gathered money and purchased much of the land of Israel from Arabs. Arabs SOLD their OWN country to Jews. And then when the Jews are successful with it, the Arabs claim it was stolen and they want it back. You cannot sell your land to someone and then claim theft 35 years later.




epeeist,



It is a simple moral question. Let me state it this way.... whose morals do you trust more:


1) A group of people who formed a multi-ethnic, multi-religious secular democracy. A group which understands what it means to be targeted for genocide.

2) A group of religious fanatics who survive as leaders by oppressing popular sentiment. A group that hangs gays and lapidates adulterers. A group that promises another holocaust.


It says A LOT about your moral judgement if you are unable to make a distinction here. The question is designed to discover whether you can see a difference between two diametrically opposed worldviews. It has nothing to do with whether you approve of nuclear weapons.

667. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242601 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 6:40 am

Peace,





You never answered any of my previous posts, like my question:


If either Israel or Iran had to have nukes who would you prefer?


It is a simple moral question.

668. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242599 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 6:33 am

Peace,

You don't think Muslims think like that?

Well unfortunately it has been Muslims that have been exterminating people lately. And yes I think there is a deterrence factor in Iran, but I cannot think that this is enough divorced from their desire to carry out the nearly three decades of threats agains Israel and the US.

It would seem that there are more than a few arabs who don't think like that?

When was Palestine a country? When did Jordan become a country? Syria?


Here is some news for you, the Jordanians administered the West Bank from 1947-1967, they had 30 years to give the Palestinians a state, did they do it? NO. Egypt administered Gaza from 1947-1967, did they give the Palestinians a state? NO.

The Palestinians are, sad to say, a pawn for the Arab kelptocracies to keep Israel as the enemy, ever evil, and ever wrong. The Arabs had their chance to make a viable state in Palestine, they didn't take it, instead they used it as a launching pad for extermination attempts against the Jews of Israel.

Palestinians are absolutely victims. 20% of this is the fault of Israel and 80% the fault of the Arabs that surround them. The pusillanimous Arab nations had their chance to do the right thing, did they do it.... of course not.

669. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242592 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 6:21 am

Peace,

Lets not forget Israel is only where it is by Jewish choice. They wanted to create a racist state in a region they consider promised to them by a mythical being, so good luck to them. They're the ones who built settlements in Arab areas which need defending.

It was created in a land that was not otherwise a country. A period of de-colonialization allowed for the creation of Israel.


Why did Israel build settlements???? After the 1967 war Israel knew it needed strategic depth against the Arab armies. Two competing defense strategies emerged, one was the Bar Lev Line along the canal in the Sinai, the other proposed by a group (including Ariel Sharon) was a series of settlements, well armed, connected by a series of roads.

In 1973, the Egyptians and Syrians effectively decieved the Israelis (Aman and Mossad had only hours worth of warning) and attacked on both the Sinai and Golan fronts. The Egyptians immediately over-ran the static Israel line using bridging of the canal and a push of armored divisions followed by infantry. However the settlements provided the dynamic defense that helped to repel the Egyptians.


As for the west bank, the Israeli settlements are constructed in strategically valuable areas, usually atop hills. For instance Israel has settled the area east of Jerusalem because this is where Israel is the most narrow, this will prevent Israel from being severed into two.


The settlements exist in large part because Israel was surrounded by countries bent on its destruction and refused to sign peace treaties. Israel signed a peace treaty with Egypt and withdrew all its settlements from Sinai. But what happens when it pulls its settlements from Gaza??? Israel is rewarded with non-stop Qassam rocket attacks on the Kibbutzim of the Negev.

670. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242586 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 6:10 am

epeeist,




I think you now see why I insist on being able to have firearms. I may need them to survive after these idiots have at each other.



Peace,


If one group had to have nuclear weapons in the Middle East, Israel or Iran, who would you prefer????

The country full of civilized, secular people who only 60 years ago underwent a holocaust. Or a country full of theocratic wankers who are promising another holocaust.

Personally I would prefer to see the Middle East disarmed, but the Jews have every reason to have nuclear weapons. The civilized world stood by while they were exterminated en masse. The world said never again, then the world let it happen again in Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan, ad naseum. The civilized world does not have the guts to stop genocide, and the Jews know this. They have determined to stop anyone from ever harming a Jew again... and I admire that determination, and I don't have a problem with Israel arming itself... to the teeth.




irate,



Israel is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious democracy where Arabs (Muslim and Christian) stand for election, and are free to practice their religion. Israel also has a sizeable Baha'i community. Israel is far from perfect and I have numerous criticisms, but I have come to see the bright spots more than I used to.

And Ehud Olmert isn't particularly religious. Nor are either of the two most powerful parties. The religious parties are not powerful enough to worry me.

671. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242577 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 5:51 am

Fanusi,




Did you see Brandy's response to your question whether or not she read anything about Islam? Hahahahaha she doesn't really like to read much about it, but she is CERTAIN it is as American as apple pie and shouldn't be a problem.

Some days I think I have seen the biggest fucktard in the world... and then I stand corrected.

And LGS made an appearance to blame out problems on Jews. Exxxxceelllleeennnnnt.

672. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242572 by al-rawandi on September 4, 2008 at 5:40 am

John Locke,





What can happen is Iran can get nuclear weapons and proliferate that in the hopes of ushering in the end of time. I have told people this a million times, but.... Ahmedinejad made an untranslataed supplication in his address to the UN General Assembly where he called for the coming of the Mahdi. The Mahdi is an eschatological figure in Islam, and specifically in Shi'a Islam is the 12th Imam in occultation who shall return to finally defeat the infidels and usher in a period of Islamic world wide rule.

Now don't you think it would be dangerous to have this kind of ideologically driven state armed with nuclear weapons? Furthermore, this state would not hesitate to proliferate the weapons to other entities that may want to use them against the Great Satan.

If this doesn't bother you, perhaps the fact that Israel will be compelled to act. How long should Israel tolerate a Iranian nuclear program when Friday sermons in Iran entail chanting marg bar Isra'il (death to Israel)?

The problem isn't unification, it is precisely the opposite. If Pakistan comes apart, the religious factions will be quite powerful (having done quite well in the democratic elections there). These fanatics will also have a nuclear arsenal. Let's say they nuke India, or Israel, or some part of Europe. How do you respond to a non-state actor? We could carpet bomb Germany... but how do you carpet bomb al-Qaeda?


Fanusi presents one possible scenario, the more realistic threat may be completely fractured, and very well armed and highly determined.

673. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242325 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Okay All,





Brandy marked as troll.


I couldn't find the "botched plastic surgery" button, so I went "troll".



Good luck.

674. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242316 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:35 pm

Brandy,



Blistering insight. Thank you captain obvious for your astute Consitutional commentary.



jabber,



But Islam ENCOURAGES butchery. The West can overcome its misguided ways, Islam is forever looking in the rearview mirror admiring the barbarism of 7th Century Arabia. There is a big difference between killing to stop Communism and killing people who simply aren't like you. Communism went away, infidels won't.

675. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242313 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Fanusi,






Nope, she is multi-culti. Muslims have Chope too!

676. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242307 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:27 pm

Brandy,







I voted for Gore and Kerry, and I sure as shit won't vote for McCain. So drop the McBush lines you're not fooling anyone, and the broken record isn't particularly interesting. You are very shallow indeed.

677. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242299 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:24 pm

Brandy





Who said I was a Republican. I could give a shit about parties, I think they are both a bunch of lying thieves.

Now you simply cannot discern that the democrats are ALSO lying thieves. When you overcome this let us know, until then... marked as troll.

678. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242297 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Brandy,






Did you see Nacy Pelosi address the Majis al-Shura in Saudi Arabia?


Nope, don't get that channel on your Dogma-box?

679. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242292 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Brandy,





No you illiterate clod, I said "Burqa"... That is a product of Arab culture.... spread by Islam.


Try this, it's called English. It's a popular language here at RD.net:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

680. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242286 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:15 pm

Brandy,







Multi-culturalism alert.




Everytime a woman issues any kind of apology for Islam, I just hope, deep down, that they get the chance to spend some time in Saudi Arabia, or Iran. Hopefully that spreads here right?

681. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242279 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:10 pm

Brandy,





FYI, that's muscle, not blob. Big difference.




JamCAm,



Definitely the lesser of two evils. But I reject that form of decision making.





Fanusi,



Leave it to the dems to appease the Muslims. I can't wait to see Brandy in Burqa...Gotta respect those foreign cultures.

682. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242269 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Brandy,





You idiot, I wasn't calling you a Jew, I was sarcastically making a point about your conspiracy theories. Oh and if it were directed at you, I am assuming you're a woman... FYI women Jews do not wear Yarmulkes.... fucktard.

Is English your 3rd or 4th language?

683. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242265 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Brandy,




If you think unions exist to protect the rights of workers, you are far more retarded than your avatar suggests.

Now, what about the secret ballot... why did unions do away with this???? Can you think of a reason??? Oh wait ya, because they are a bunch of thugs who want to intimidate those people who don't get in line.


Ha protect the rights of workers? You aren't very sharp are ya?

684. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242258 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 1:58 pm

JamCam,





It's "Chope"... Change and Hope together! All hail Obamamessiah!!!!!

Chope '08
Chope '08
Chope '08
Chope '08
*cough*more goverment*cough*
Chope '08
Chope '08



Brandy,



Way to dodge the point.... troll.


I think the fact that Obama didn't know that Russia had veto power on the UN Security Council was something that we should overlook, eh?

Like I said, write in someone else, anyone else. But neither of the two dumb fucks.

WAAAAIIIIIITTTT I know why you like Clinton now.... Are you a chubby Jewish girl?

685. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242244 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Brandy,




We suck at education because of a teacher's union, which prevents administrators from firing incompetent fucktards.


Now I can't remember, unions are a liberal or conservative consituency....??? Can you help me there?

686. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242198 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Ian, sorry that you are so offended that I'm not willing to stand by and allow you McBush atheists to malign the only party that is standing up to the attack on science and defending reason.

Self important much?



This statement is so absolutely fucktarded as to defy all standards of reason.


Besides I am too worried about the Jews taking over....


Can anyone help me construct a Yarmulke seeking missile?

687. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242173 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Decius,


I don't care. But adultery is taken more seriously in the US than in Europe.




Brandy Spears,



You mean all the Republicans that are actually gay and are banging their pages?

688. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242160 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Fanusi,

How about the fact that he executed a mentally retarded black man to prove his law-and-order credentials?

What? He killed Al Sharpton?

689. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242155 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Brandy,





I personally think Clinton was a decent president, didn't fuck up too much, used the military in a responsible manner for the most part. But he rose above the bedroom police by lying. And just imagine what would happen if a Frotune 500 CEO had received fellatio in his office, from a subordinate.... he would have been out on his ass.



Decius,


No I don't care if he gets a blow job. I care if he is a habitual liar (and I have it on GOOD authority that he cheats at golf) and does not respect our system of sworn testimony.




Diacanu,


I know, but people act as if Obama is a savior. His Chope will save us from all evil. All HAIL OBAMA!



John Locke,



Cruel but funny.




CFL,



I am compassionate. I vote we give people more of the basic necessities. I vote for ensuring universal health care.


And actually he is a long shot candidate to get Chuck Schumer's seat in the Senate. I speak to him often enough via email. In total honesty, he is a total longshot. Schumer is a machine, this guy is an educator and an intellectual. He is such a dedicated man. He addressed the Libertarian Party and turned down there support and affiliation to run as an independent.

So my contacts (and I have a few) have all been self made. I go hunting with the proletariat friends I have (firefighters, electricians, plumbers, etc...) not wealthy CEO's.

I work in finance, but it bums me out a lot, so many big business Republican dogmatists, completely irrational. Bugs me, I need a change of venues.

690. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242138 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Coco, John Locke,






There is some incentive to quit smoking! If you smoke you don't get treatment, no matter what caused your illness. Deterrence! :-)




Brandy Spears,



Would that be the Bill Clinton who has no respect for what "under oath" means? The one who lies during sworn testimony... perjury? That one? The one that bombed Iraq to distract people from his little blow job?

Are these the same democrats that employ that little toad in Illnois who ridiculed an atheist during his testimony for not believing in god in "the Land of Lincoln"? Are these our saviors? The ones to deliver us from the evils of American stupidity?

691. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242133 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:14 pm

John Locke,



#333 That is a good point. I don't actually have a problem funding universal health care. I am willing to give up a portion of my money (wealth would be an overstatement) to help people live, even if they caused some of their own ills.

#334: Thank you. I hope Brandy was being sarcastic, but if not.... reality check, this is America... McCain religion, or Obama religion, complete with pro-Hamas church.



ColdFusion Lazarus,


See my response to John Locke #333. I was just curious as to why... I am already willing because it feels right, but I want to think about it more.

As for born into it... I wasn't born into exceptional privelege. In fact my parents had very little money when I was born and even less in my early youth. Although we were not poor, we just weren't rich either.


Now come and put a cap in my ass.... 2nd Amendment... good luck getting in my front door.

692. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242123 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Decius,




In the US you can get a liver if you are a drunk, it just takes longer (I believe). Now what about oxygen treatments for smokers, or heart transplants for smokers? Why should I pay for the consequences of someone's life choices?

Why is their coice my responsibility?

693. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242119 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 11:58 am

squinky,




I went to Berkeley. It is lovely. But as you go north and/or west it gets a little rougher. Then you get to Richmond, which is a god foresaken hell hole.


Yeah, I am not sure that I want to pay for drunks to get liver transplants. That is the problem with financing personal programs. It is hard to convince me that I should pay for someone else's fuck ups. People think socialized health care means "free", well it isn't free, people pay for it.

694. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242096 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 11:35 am

John Locke,







No Afghanistan invasion? What was the appropriate response to 9/11?


Or more precisely what is the appropriate response to the threat posed by Islam? Isn't it a real threat? Doesn't the spread of Shariah concern you?


kthxbai.

695. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242073 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 11:12 am

Coco,





If your husband were KIA, and we all hope not, it would not be for nothing.


Even if the Iraq invasion was for corporate profit (which was an aspect) it doesn't erase the value of removing Saddam, and giving the Iraqis a larger degree of self determination (even if not perfect). Every bomb the US drops that kills an adherent of the virulent form of Islam dedicated to the destruction of civilized society is a beneficial act. Every soldier that dies dies for his OWN reasons for being there. It is a volunteer military, the soldier chooses the reasons.

I hope that the US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan can provide benefits to those peoples. I have a great deal of admiration for the American military. Whatever the overarching reasons for certain conflicts, Americans have repeatedly gone and bled all over the world for the freedom of others. Even in the confused fog of Vietnam, the US was trying to prevent the fall of a country to an oppressive and deadly doctrine.

696. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242065 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 11:05 am

Robert Maynard,




No need to edit childish endings, I am full of them.

As for specific policies... the community service for education is an idea I came up with on my own several years ago. I don't claim it is original but it was something I thought up on my own, and is one more place where I totally agree with Barack. Also throw in income tax forgiveness for people who teach in inner cities. That would do two things:

1) Encourage people to help remedy the systemic poverty and lack of education.
2) Provide more free capital in and around inner cities.



John Locke,



No sweat, we have it. It could sure stand to be a a lot higher though. It is state by state, plus a federally mandated minimum.




Lucas,


The comment could apply to any poor person. But it isn't racist to say what is the basic truth. Do you, honestly, think that most poor people, of any race, will go out and buy helth insurance if you gave them $600 per month, free? I mean really? So you are talking about forcing people to get health care. Which is an understandable position, but realize what it is. And also at what point do the poor become responsible for themselves, when do you stop parenting them and let them out of the "nest".


Also I long ago confessed my racism. If I am walking in an alley I am doubly cautious of people who are minorities. It is a simple reality that blacks commit more crime... for whatever reason. I don't can't know why, but I can know that they are more likely to do so. So when I see someone walking behind me at night in SF or Oakland I look at skin color, type of clothes, hair cut, facial expression, shoes, size, etc... All of these are superficial and judgemental, but that is all the info I have, and some of that info is purely racial.

Now if I meet someone in person I am only concerned with their life and personality, and their race could not be more irrelevant.

697. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242048 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 10:47 am

Hellene,






I am dead serious. Lurie is a great guy. He has a facebook profile and group for his election, everyone should join. He is happy to return emails personally and speak with you on the phone. He has one child with autism and is a decent guy personally.

I am going to send him as much money as is legal and I can afford. He has all the right messages.



Fanusi,




I hate bitchy liberals who complain about hunting, but go ahead and eat meat. I hunt, it is sport and I eat the meat. I go fishing too, I murder all those fish and eat them.

As for gun ownership.... I live in Oakland, it is a beautiful city riddled with pockets of extreme violence. The police are understaffed, and sometimes don't even show up when called. The mayor is an incompetent clod who got elected appealing to African American bitterness in the city and has done nothing to help. I own several guns and keep them in my home and one purpose is to make sure that I do not have to rely on an incompetent government to protect my person and property.

I am weary of ever relying on a government to guarantee my safety and welfare, because one day it may no longer be in the interest of the perpetuation of their power to do so. So I plan to take care of myself.

698. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242042 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 10:38 am

Decius,






I am not sure McCain will appoint a theocratic whack to the Supreme Court. How bad were Bush's appointments? McCain has never been a fan of the evangelicals and dodges the issue as much as he can.




John Locke,



We have a minimum wage. Here is where I live in case you are confused:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

It is the green one on the globe.

699. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242035 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 10:34 am

Robert Maynard,




I Suck? Don't be a bungling twat.


Not one of these lobotomized sheep who pass themselves as rationalists can explain what change meant. And neither can you. You didn't know, you just assumed I could get it on line. Nice critical thinking skills:


Obama: "I am for change"
Robert M.: "I like change"
Al-Rawandi: "Hey what is change"
Robert M. :"I am sure you can find it online."


I mean, are you serious?

The guy sucks off the corporate tit the same as the next guy. He is privately financing his campaign, which he initially pledged to prevent in government if elected. He said immediate withdrawal from Iraq, now he isn't so sure. The only thing changing is his position on everything.


I don't mean to say Obama is all bad, I like a lot of what he has to say in terms of getting us out of debt, and the reality is that takes tax hikes and I get it. So I don't think he is a total moron, and he will most likely get my vote simply for the supreme court issue. But aren't you mad that this is what an election is, who you hate the least?

700. Palin: average isn't good enough

Comment #242029 by al-rawandi on September 3, 2008 at 10:28 am

squinky,





We already have health care for the poor... it's called Medicair... or Medicade or whatever. People say we need "socialized" medicine... well we have it. It is 20% of our national budget. What more do you want, poor people are entitled to health care in the US.

46 million uninsured???? Yeah and 20% (plus) make more than $75,000 per year. It isn't poor people that always the ones uninsured.

The sad truth is you have to force people to get health care. The sadder truth, many inner city folks, if you gave them the exact $ amount to buy health insurance would be out buying malt liquor and swisher sweets. So you are really going to have the government force people to get care. Give them the money and see what happens.