851. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169709 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 4:09 pm

All the talk of baking and such allow me to share what I just did.
I made a green chile/chipped beef corn bread.
Hmmmmmm...mmm...good.

852. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169706 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 4:06 pm

Newskin,
If you have time to give hastening your own demise a lot of thought chances are you will pause before the action you need to take. Everyone would

I would be willing to bet that if you don't have a lot of time, say by pushing some child out of the way of a bus that is about to splatter her (thereby putting you in harms way) you will probably just act.

853. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169701 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 3:48 pm

MelissaJoy said,

Again, I may not have the degrees you have, the intelligent brain and abilities to reason as you, or even the desire to learn as much as you. But you said in your interview that if you died and you did meet God face to face, you would ask Him why he kept himself so hidden. I think His response will be "Richard, I was right there all the time. It was YOU who kept ME hidden, remember?"

I don't know what Dawkins will say to that response, but mine will be (before the angels come and toss me into the fiery lake)
"Uh...how did you get this job again? I think you are underqualified or something."

854. Soldier Sues Army, Saying His Atheism Led to Threats

Comment #169662 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 1:43 pm

SRWB said,

This fascination with faith and religion in the US military is not unheard of at all, unfortunately. The US military has a well-deserved reputation for ramming this stuff down their members' throats.

I attended my first prep-drill (kind like pre-training for National Guard enlistees) and have seen first hand how this happens. The SSG whose class I was in was always working God, and biblical morals into the lessons. Fucking annoying. I think I go with Madison who was against the whole Military Chaplaincy thing anyway.

Hopefully this will not become to much of a problem. But I hear OCS is often rank with this kind of religious bullshit even thought there is a greater number of non-believers in the officer ranks (there is that education trend Dawkins was on about in TGD showing itself) there is still a great deal of religious non-sense to attend to.

855. Student's 'Be Happy, Not Gay' t-shirt ok

Comment #169650 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Reading over the talk about bullying I would simply say part of the problem (it is a huge problem in American schools no matter the group though I accept that some groups would get more than others) is the fact that teachers and adminstrators tend not to get involved nearly enough. When I was teaching and I saw things going on the hallways that were clearly instances of bullying (pushing, physical aggression, cornering someone and verbally abusing them) I would stop it. I would see that the appropriate parties got in trouble, and I would talk about what happened with the parties involved to try to see it to it that it didn't happen again. Furthermore the environment, for teachers in the US anyway is one of perpetual fear of parents. Tell their kids that homosexuality is not a matter of choice, and that even if it were that it isn't something that is a public concern will surely land some teachers in hot ass water. So they do nothing about it.

However the shirt wearing with a slogan that said Be happy, not Gay shirt would not be something high on my priority list to stop. While most of us here may find that kind slogan deeply stupid, ignorant and bigoted we really ought not limit a person's speech over it. I find all the Hate Speech law deeply disturbing. It is the ulitimate in slippery slope worries.

I wouldn't see the admirable consciousness raising movement Day of Silence itself silenced to prevent the religious offense taking that will no doubt ensue. I can only extend the same courtesy in the other direction.

Steve, I understand your worries and concerns I really do. But I think this is the price we pay for freedom of speech. That being said I do think speech can take the form of abuse, but only when someone has been corralled and cornered and is being verbally attacked. My freedom doesn't give the right to be limiting your freedoms.

856. Is religion a threat to rationality and science?

Comment #169640 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 1:01 pm

Clearmind,
Why are you so fascinated with dreams.

Here is a dream I had once.
I was looking out over a field, and it was covered, I mean completely covered with Pilieated Woodpeckers foraging on the ground. As I stepped on to the field they all took flight.

That was the only part of the dream vignette that has stuck with me, it was the only part I really remembered upon waking.

Here's the funny thing, I saw quite a few pileated woodpeckers that day. And I had been thinking about them alot. This is often a trend in dreams, they often center, in a jumbled strange way, on things we were thinking about that day, or obsessing over. I've run from Tyrannsaurus Rexs with dates (I'd seen Jurassic Park that night), I've been in the Millenium Falcon (I actually think that one is real and represents soemthing that I really did), and been shot up in Vietnam. I leave it to you to decide what thought provoking things I was into on those days of vivid dreaming.

Why should we take anything from dreams too seriously?

857. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169586 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 11:06 am

txpiper,

One may argue about the interpretation of the evidence, but you can't say that it isn't there

.

I certainly cannot argue that. Your interpretation is certainly there.

But it seems that interpretations hinges on ignoring a mass of other facts. Now you are multiplying floods. This makes no sense. It certainly isn't the way interpretations get solifiied. This multiple floods business is convenient trick that also has no evidence to support it. The evidence supports the idea that Earth has a long history of geological activity and that areas that were once underwater have been thrust upward out of it. Or it indicates changes in sea level that are quite predictable with the amoung of water currentl extant.

What about hydrological sorting? This is a hugely damning bit of physics for the flood idea. Heavy objects settle out first. Another huge problem for the theory is there is no record of massive extinction at the time most people think the flood occured. And if you know anything about marine ecology it is that is at its most spectacularly diverse in shallow waters. We would see a record of this in coral reefs. No such descrepancy has been discovered yet in this record.

858. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169572 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 10:20 am

Billy,

God is constantly pulling this harding of hearts trick and then doing mean things or letting people be damned in the book.
In this verse in particular it is all about showing off.

"Look at this wonder! Everybody look look, dead babies!"

I can't see this God having a sincere problem with abortion.

859. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169555 by MaxD on April 26, 2008 at 9:38 am

Incredulous said:

Remnant:

Instead of sneering at the genuine attempts of people to accommodate and hence understand your arguments, could you please answer the questions put to you in the manner you have been asked to answer them in.

You have not answered riandouglas' or epeeist's questions and these are the only people I am aware of that have asked questions so apologies to those who have asked you a question but I have not mentioned.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I would second this. But just incase remnant forgot my two questions....I would like to add them to the mix, as I think they will be important.
Remnant!
1. Does Genesis 1 & 2 accurately describe the events of Creation?

2. Was it okay to kill the first born of Egypt. Whas this wonder moral?
1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.

2 Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour, and every woman of her neighbour, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold.

3 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.

4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt:

5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.

8 And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger.

9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you; that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.

10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land.


I can't help but one more....does it trouble you at all that there isn't a shread of historical evidence for this story?
It would bug the hell out of me.

860. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169237 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 4:29 pm

Well all I am off to see the new Jackie Chan movie,
Later!

861. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169220 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 4:16 pm

Masterbuilder,
Has science disproved the existance of unicorns?
I propose that the insides of unicorns are pink. How is that unscientific?

I'm not trying to be rude. The 'heroes' of Expelled are simply having a bit of a whine about the tough world of science.
And no one is trying to do what the film suggests. For a full debunking I suggest you do some research.

862. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169217 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 4:11 pm

Remnant!
Would you just quit being a deshonest jerk for a little bit.
When Dr. Benway used scripture she was resorting to an old and wonderful technique. Revealing rank hypocrisy, on the part of you and particularly that prick TruthID.

Furthermore I can point out passages that cast doubt on the assertion that God is a loving character without believing a word of it. You see the same thing happens when I talk about Hamlet with my friends? Is he really crazy? Did he really see his father? Is that meant to remain ambiguous? I can trot out lines, "The plays the thing, wherein I catch the conscious of the king."
I ask you, do I believe in the unerrancy of Shakespear?
The same thing happens when I talk about the X-men, or Jedi ethics. Its called textual criticism and we all-intellegent folk anyway-do it and recognize it.

You sir must be either the most catastrophically stupid person I've ever met or one of the most cravenly mendacious. I'm not sure which of these you are.

And while I have you let me make yet another quaint point your ever blinkered mind has yet to grasp.
Whether the Universe has a begining, or not has not one jot to do with proving your assertions about the Judeo/Christian God.

The universe could have a begining. How does it follow that your myth, out of the hundreds of thousand of infantile origin myths, is the correct one.
Some predictions now please.

863. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169139 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:58 pm

Al-rawandi,
Not often!

864. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169129 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:55 pm

TruthIDiot,

MaxD,

If boxing gloves are designed to protect a boxer's head, you must be the worlds worst boxer. Am I right? Am I? Am I?

I guess you can't read. they protect hands. Head gear is for heads and mostly it only stops cuts. But since I train MMA fighters we don't wear the head gear. But...don't you have some questions to be answering?

865. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169120 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:51 pm

Remnant,

I wasn't referring to physical characteristics. I was referring to social behavior.

Sorry chumly, it wasn't clear. And the fault of that non-transparent meaning is yours, not mine.

866. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169106 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:46 pm

Remnant,
A certain fuckwit asked me a stupid fucking question. I answered in a way that amused me.

Boxing gloves protect hands that are punching. It is as simple as that. They aren't designed to protect a boxer's head. Fists tend to do one thing very consistently when you punch without some kind of hand protection.
They may or may not do much damage to an opponent, but they very often break upon impact. Gloves diffuse the impact across a broader surface area. This is their purpose.

I would not veil any threats were I inclined to make them.

867. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169081 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Not to be totally nerdy riandouglas,
But are you sure that is Havok? I thought it was one of the elementals.

868. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169078 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:36 pm

Epeeist, I got the pint covered for you. I think Al-rawandi and I are in the same country. Least I can do for the cool fencing vids.

869. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169073 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:35 pm

Quetz the palm heel works pretty well, but man you have to think about it, and remember to keep your hands open. A lot of work for a guy who picks his nose know?

870. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169064 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:31 pm

TruthID
That insult at Elli's expense is absolute bullshit you fuckwit.

871. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169054 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:28 pm

Remnant,
As Elli pointed out...
We are animals. We are in the order Primates, family Hominidae. Mammals, vertebrates, chordates. Animals man! or whatever.

Hope that clears things p

872. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169036 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:21 pm

TruthID,
They enable me to break other people's noses with out breaking my hands. They are convenient like that.

873. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169016 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Epeeist reminded me of a point I wanted to make earlier.

I didn't attempt to mock your god.
I.
Just.
Did.
It.
No repercusions. No loss of friends. No sudden spike in water levels.

Here I will do it again.
What is the difference between Jesus and a picture of Jesus?
No answer? Don't strain too hard. I'll help you out
It only takes one nail to hang up a picture of Jesus.

874. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #169005 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Okay,
The first link American thinker was wrong on multiple levels.
The second link and the first link neglect the huge support Fascism recieved from Christian groups.

The third makes a lot of heavy weather about freedom and then confuses fascism with popular trends in thought.

The Fourth link shoots itself in the foot immediately by proferring the following definition of fascism:

a political/economic system characterised by heavily centralised political power presiding over a mixed private/state economy.

Who is centralizing power in the US? Hmmmmm? His middle initial is W.

I am not saying that fascism cannot originate out of leftist thought certainly it can. However you do your case no service by the dishonesty in suggesting that the major fascisms of the 20th century were not aided and abetted by Christian organizations.

The sillyness of saying that no one has seen Christians engaged in running concentration camps and killing en masses neglects the very 20th century it likes to highlight as well as the very young 21st. Most of the people pulling the switches and shooting the jews, homosexuals, gypsies in WWII Germany were both Christian and Nazi.

875. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168987 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:53 pm

I was thinking that TruthID and Remnant were the same person for awhile. They are too similar in many ways. But that could stem from a common schooling in the indoctrination centers (Churches) of their side.

876. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168978 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:47 pm

Al-rawandi in your comment above about sputtering, shats and such, you left out a key event.
Sharting.

877. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168975 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Remnant,
Is Genesis 1 and 2 an accurate description of the early formation of the universe? I'm not sure if you've indicated what you believe on this issue.

And why is it moral for God to kill all of Egypt's 1st born so his ungrateful people can escape? This seems like God has a long history of holding people responsible for crimes they had no part in. Did those first born actually put the Jews in that situation? No. Where is the justice in their murder then?

You don't want to answer the first question because we actually have a very good picture of what happened in initial instants after the big bang. (EDIT: we also know so very much about solar system formation, element synthesis inside stars, etc, etc).

And you don't want to answer the second because there isn't a satisfactory answer for it.

878. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168934 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:12 pm

Riandouglas,

That seems to be the way it is used isn't it?
They can't even accept their book is a cobble that could be wrong, and actually is internally inconsistent.

879. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168924 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:06 pm

Its not that its the Yankees that I give you a look askance righton, its that it is baseball.

880. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168921 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Dr. Benway!
I think another part of the disconnect at least on Remmynant was his inability to believe that people could remain unconvinced of God's existance with out willful rebellion.

He/she desperately needs that to be so or the picture of God as a merciful, just loving character implodes. Creation can not hide God's existence or They (trinities mind your step)would then have a hand in our unjust damnation.

I think that is a big part of his/her need to be right on this point about the obviousness of creation. All the other ignorance could be remedied were not for the fact they are incapable of imagining a different point of view. He couldn't even see the point of my story concerning the flood. It was a simple regression into absolutes from scripture. He has assiduously avoided my first borne of Egypt arguments because they also damn the character of God.
Remmynant does not want to say "Those babies were trash and have no right to live unless God want's them too." That is too much the petulant child to imagine in so grand a being as God.

881. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168916 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Remnant certainly dropped lots of perspiration into his key board feverishly fretting about imagined strawmen.

882. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168911 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:51 pm

I am not sure I can get on board with this multiple intelligences thing. Its all more or less correlated. Intelligent people are simply intelligent people.

Futher the categories for Multiple intelligences is continuting to swell.

883. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168905 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Do you guys think my your mama crack drove TruthID away?

884. Humans nearly wiped out 70,000 years ago, study says

Comment #168896 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Doesn't this kind of put the kibash on Neanderthal/Homo sapiens cross breeding?

885. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168880 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Uh someone needs to close their bold code.

886. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168870 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:14 pm

I still have a question from Remnant that is need of answering.
Do you believe that Genesis 1 & 2 represent an accurate depiction of how the universe came into being?

887. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168865 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:10 pm

TruthID
Your mama.

888. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168856 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Remnant,
Do you remember Corylus's warning about insulting people?
Don'y agree that you are again resorting to insults when you say things like this?

I just love how atheists and evolutions latch on to words like surmises, postulates, could have, possibly, theorizes,maybe, hopefully, possibly, as solid evidence.

Too funny. I guess it is just a godless thingy!

Do try to ponder the warnings.

889. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168852 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Remnant said:

what qualifies as charitable giving is my question."

for conservatives and the religious people, money and time from us.

for libs and secular, extortions through taxes

Missing my point. What organizations do these studies accept as charitable giving. If I give time and money to the Nature Conservancy, that to me seems like charitable giving.

The point you are trying to make, that theists are nicer than secularists, is shot through though if both sides enjoy giving but do it in different ways, or support different charitable acts and strategies.

Taxes aren't extortion. Liberal's didn't convene a secret committee to support things like foodstamps, and WIC. The process that saw that happen was normal government.

Here try this on for size Remmynant. I could just as easily if I were Quaker make the same claim of military organizations. They are supported through extortion through taxes and that it is unjust to expect taxpayers to support militaries.

If you are unhappy with the tax situation by all means vote libertarian.

890. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168829 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:36 am

What qualifies as charitable giving is my question.

891. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168826 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:33 am

Tezcatlipoca,
That remains the question doesn't it?

Is giving to your Churches mission real thought out charity or just something you do as part of the cost of wasting a sunday in fancy clothes?

In any event I want to see more about the specific charities? Are we including organizations like the Nature Conservancy, UNICEF? Doctor's Withoug Borders?

892. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168819 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:28 am

Remnant, what charities are being donated to? That still remains my question. It is as yet still unanswered by your articles.

893. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168816 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:24 am

Corylus,
I hurt my stomach laughing at your link.
Ah....:)

894. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168809 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:19 am

Remnant,
Holy Quote Bot Batman!
He showed me with those scriptures!
That is the best argument ever! I mean no real addressing that god killed people who may or may not have possessed clue one about his existance. Certainly kids deserved what they got. The fictional woman's pain was clearly unimportant.
Noah must have been a brutally ineffective preacher if only 8 people survived the flood.
Never mind the preaching Max.

So killing innocent kids, the first born of egypt was good and moral action? What did they do?

A couple of questions though.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Did you believe in sorcerers? Real honest to goodness Hogwarts trained sorcerers?

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Book of life eh? How does one get into it? Hasn't god got omniscience? Why this whole drama? He knows how it all shakes out right? We cannot surprise God with our actions right? Why all the drama of earthly existance then? Is it just like watching his favorite movie? WHy not just adjudicate all this who goes where business in the begining?
Doesn't make much sense now does it?

So do you believe that Genesis 1 and 2 accurately describe the sequence of events of creation?

895. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168789 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 11:01 am

Al-rawandi's stock just spiked in my opinion. He said the appropriate thing about Magnum P.I.

896. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168769 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 10:41 am

i think the discussion about giving and donating is flawed. Are all organizaitions of charitable character counted? Is my money to the ACLU counted? Is my tax contribution counted? I'm a willing giver and support of causes like headstart, food stamps, WIC etc. What is counted as charitable giving?

897. Lying for Jesus?

Comment #168762 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 10:38 am

Remnant here is what I imagine your moral and just sky-daddy did a few million times during the flood, even if we discount a few really sinful malcontents and really mean types. Is this right?

From the discovered diary of a mother living near Noah at the time.

The rains are coming down too hard. I know I haven't much time left. The master isn't home, I can only hope the floodwaters have killed him.

My sons are gone. I have no idea where. Or really how except maybe in the general sense that it was the damned water. They were playing in the neighborhood, this morning when the rains began. The deluge they will probably call it. If anyone survives. As I sit and watch the water cresting the lower portion of my master's roof I can only hope my sons were taken by the currents quickly. I see them though in my minds eye, screaming for me to help them. I see them trapped in a small place as the water rises and the fear they must have felt makes my insides break apart and I want to vomit. I cannot stop crying.

I just watched one of my neighbors laying his wife, stiff and pale on his roof. He tried to lay her down in some way that would be thought dignified I think. He noticed me and laughed and shook his head. Then he walked to the edge of his roof, slightly higher than the one on which I now sit, gave me a small wave and leapt off into the water. He did not surface.
Is this happening every where?
I think I will lay down for awhile. I've written all I care to write about this. And I've seen all I care to see of this. Hopefully the water will spare me of my pain soon.

Perhaps that put a human face on your Just and Loving deity's actions.

898. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #168756 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 10:35 am

Kyrie Elesion,
You are not that new!

Here a post you never answered.
Kyrie, or perhaps more appropriately,
"Oh Lord!"
Where to begin, where to begin?
I have been in biology for the better part of 10 years. And I have never had the instance where the profs discussed God unless brought up by students. And then alot of hand wringing occured where the profs slipped the question.
"Well that is not what this is about. This is about evolution."

You say.

it betrays a complete lack of knowledge."
PhDs are awarded for contributing to the knowledge pool. It is at the disgression of falible, emotional people what is accepted and what isn't. The intellectual value of a contribution by a PhD holder outside their focus is non sequitur.

Well no one said that there was infalliblity. But there is error correcting machinery in the sciences. Peer review, replicablity, testing etc. What isn't the case is uncovered because there is a wealth of accolades for someone who overturns established theory.

Your point about the value of an intellectual offering by a brilliant person out side their area of expertise as being invalid is just utter silliness because it invalidates rather handily your non-point about brilliant scientists who were Christian. You rattle off a few guys you think very brilliant and then show off their status as believers. You do this with nary a care as to what they actually believed. Newton for instance held a great deal of crack pot theories. He was an alchemist. He didn't believe Jesus was the son of God. And Hawking is an atheist. In any event what do you care, you don't believe their expertise in their respective fields qualifies them to adjudicate on such matters anyway.

"... why atheism enjoys such high rates of incidence among biologists and cosmologists."
The reason is conjecture from professors the students look up too because of their high intellectual honors.

Sadly this is not likely to be the case. Go talk to some biologists, or cosmologists and then maybe you will have some idea why they think the way they do. You will find it enlightening as you will not be pulling things out of your a...well you know. Dude the only time this gets brought up is by students. The question of God is irrelevant to the study of Biology, physics or cosmology. Believe them if you want, it just doesn't affect the observations.

With each new discovery in the area of constants, the possiblity of "accidental" life mathematically decreases.

If by accident you mean random, no one is saying that at all. But I don't think you have a really solid idea what you mean by accidental.
Your ground here is utterly, utterly thin. We don't yet know what kind of a universe we live in. Or why the constants are the way they are. You are proposing a weak God of the Gaps theology. And one thing the history of that idea has demonstrated is a catastrophic inability to explain or predict new discoveries. It boils down to, I don't know what happened here, so [insert God]. Of course you run into the age old problem of whose God exactly.
I'm glad that is your problem and not mine.

You say...

The best minds; Newton, Bacon, Pascal, Galileo, Polkinghorne, were Christian. Steve Hawking attends church as often as possible.

As I've already shown your last bit is irrelevant because you don't care about their expertise anyway. (Did you know that Newton was a horrible horrible man?)

Missing my point entirely you say,

"Wouldn't it seem like the people most dealing with subjects deeply germaine to humanity, life"
Humanity has to do with thought, belief, memory, volition, etc., all of which is non-material.

Did you really just say that? Really? What part of what you wrote is none material? Do you ever read anything other than what you are told? Or what comforts you most? Just where do you think things like thought, memory, belief, "volition" get done? If you are struggling with that let me help. It happens in the brain, and can all be altered by manipulating the brain.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?

Biology has to do with the material part of life. Material, your hand for example, does nothing of note without "thought" acting on it.
"and origins"
This is all theory; no one has proof of how we got here.

Proof? This isn't geometry. But we have a mass of evidence and it all points in one general direction.

To teach one theory only is indoctrination. Darwinism is disturbingly useful to the government and anyone wanting to justify actions that might harm another person.

Oh My Lord Have Mercy! I hope it is okay to use your own name in a less than friendly manner as I just did. Simply the way you used the word theory shows me you don't know what you are talking about. Scientists use the word in a very technical sense. It is very unlike your use which would encompass the baseless accusation of suppression on the part of scientists of creationists. For more than one scientific perspective to get a decent airing it must have a good amount of evidence in its favor. This cannot be said for ID at all. Not even a little bit. They have no research program, they have leaky hypotheses and no idea where to begin. Not only are they up the creek, but they have no oars, or boat.

Teaching one theory is not what goes on anyway. They are all evolutionary theories, and hypothesies but Darwinism is a piece-admittedly very large-of an even larger puzzle. If you want more time for ID/Creation then produce some results and evidence. Even your major "theorists" admit this hasn't been accomplished and that their "theoretical arm" has outpaced their experimental one.
I wonder why.

Your point about Darwin being a useful political tool is really rich. Go watch the US presidential debates to find out why. Moreover your "argument from negative consequences is useless. The theory could be just as corrosive as you say and it wouldn't change the veracity of it one bit.

Finally you go too far.

"would find some corrobarating evidence of their God. They never do."
There isn't a lack of evidence, only a supression of evidence.

I spit my milk out at this line. Of course in perfect conspiracy fashion. Well where is your evidence?
They supressed it.
Who did?
They did. The scientists.
Which ones?
They did.
Ah.....
It can never be error, or poor research or a lack of understanding. Conspiracy please, it spares me the need to look more squarely at my world.

"Apologetics" is the genre that answers questions for skeptics and thinkers;

I have a different word for it of course. And it isn't quite the same as yours

899. Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

Comment #168744 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 10:27 am

Clearthinker,
I notice you are still posting here. Certainly you must be lurking. I just read your ridiculous response to PZ on the central falsehood at the hear of expelled. Do you think you might try a little intellectual honesty when you come here. It would enable me to agree with you on the occasional point you do make with feeling ugly.

Why not enter into a real debate instead of nit-picking.

Perhaps you are still reeling from the chiding you got on the PZ thread? Its okay. I understand. Rigor is hard for you. Keep practicing, with time, patience and little intellectual honesty you will figure out how to have a sensible discussion.

900. Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda

Comment #168720 by MaxD on April 25, 2008 at 10:08 am

Epeeist, messaged you.