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Comments by Vinelectric


51. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #117131 by Vinelectric on January 28, 2008 at 10:11 am

Marcus Hill

I think you're absolutely right. I personally know of at least two friends who chose to bank with HSBC because it offers the so called "Amanah" Sharia friendly accounts. The involvement of more reputable banks in this business will help keep purely Islamic ventures (e.g the newly founded Islamic Bank of Britain) at bay as the bigger banks are likely to be able to afford to offer more attractive services anyway.

52. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #117124 by Vinelectric on January 28, 2008 at 10:03 am

Thanks al-rawandi

I like that model but of course it's not just the success of the business you need to worry about it's the stability of the market itslef! So I suppose I can only practically be Sharia compliant if I adopted that model in, say Japan with its low inflation rates, and used the money to invest in a stable business like Mitsubishi or Sony for a year at a time!!

53. A Letter From Hell

Comment #116813 by Vinelectric on January 27, 2008 at 1:57 pm

heathen2

Theny you'll friend will have a nervous breakdown if you told her about the book that says you'll be fed boiling pus and that you'll be threaded ona 70 foot chain (mouth to anus) in hell whilst been dragged face down all along..

The Quran has all the tools to drive children insane.

54. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #116808 by Vinelectric on January 27, 2008 at 1:41 pm

al-rawandi

I'm not sure about interest free lending but I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts on that.

I remember contacting an advisor from the SFB, a commercial bank that oversees the Societe Generale's investments in the Sudan about interest-free lending. Their principle was to allow the customer to identify his target investment/purhase..e.g a new car.. then they'd make a payment to the vendor and resell it to the customer at a higher, but fixed, sum similar to a non-cumulative fixed-interest lending but repackaged as "commercial profit" which is Islamically sound.

As if god won't notice!

55. Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance

Comment #116503 by Vinelectric on January 26, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Islamic banking maybe deceptive but the back breaking interest rates on my loans are definitiely a crime!

Sharia banking may not be feasible in the real world (as it would halt economic growth eventually) but if any of these bank succeeds in finding an interest free, deception free solution I'll definitely join and invite all my believing and non-believing frineds as well....in my dreams..I suppose !

56. Loneliness Breeds Belief in Supernatural

Comment #116258 by Vinelectric on January 26, 2008 at 4:38 am

Welcome op-cow

People in the very religious middle eastern socieities have ridiculously large extended and well knit families. That seems to enhance and perpetuate religious beliefs through group solidarity.

I only started to doubt the supernatural when I moved to live alone and got a break from the constant and incessant preaching by those who are anxious that you might start thinking for yourself unless you're kept in check.

57. Violence fear over Islam film

Comment #113915 by Vinelectric on January 21, 2008 at 2:05 am

Thanks to whoever sorted out the italics glitch.

58. Violence fear over Islam film

Comment #113913 by Vinelectric on January 21, 2008 at 2:03 am

Roland_F

I don't know what you're getting at but if you ask ex-muslims, myself included, I doubt that you'd come across anyone who felt a change of heart by watching right wing nutters tear up a book that once occupied a special place in their lives.

All you'll ever achieve is triggering the predictable knee jerk whereby muslims automatically recoil further into their irrationality. You know there's an emotional element to religious attachment but you don't seem to know how to manipulate that to your advantage.

Why can't we approach the muslim community through rational and mature dialogue instead? It works, "believe" me!

59. Honour Killings

Comment #113785 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 2:43 pm

zoltix

Like your avatar. By the way your mission won't be that easy. Take a look at this:



ANAS ibn Malik (RA) reports: "The Prophet was sitting in the mosque with some of his companions when a Bedouin urinated inside the mosque. The Prophet's Companions said: 'What is going on?' 'What are you doing?' The Prophet said to them: 'Do not interrupt him.' He subsequently called the man and said to him: 'These mosques are not the place where one can throw any dirt. They are meant for reciting the Quran, glorifying God and prayer.' He then called for a bucket of water and he poured it over the urine." (Bukhari, Muslim, Nessai, Malik and Ahmad).


This is apparently the same man who killed his critics (? source). He was different things at different times and reports on his life, although heterogenous and contradictory, do draw a picture of a successful no-nonesense military leader who emancipated slaves and put up with years of persecution.

Stick with the Quran. You'll find all the embarrasing texts that no one will dare challenge their authenticity.

By the way, that child was engaged to another grown man before he wed her!

60. The New Theology

Comment #113781 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 2:27 pm

BONZAI...

welcome back!

61. Violence fear over Islam film

Comment #113780 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Thanks Steve, that italics glitch was driving me nuts AND I was blamed for it..! Tell you the truth I was offended but I noticed that everyone's posts were becoming difficult to follow including Duke Nukem's.

62. Honour Killings

Comment #113686 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 10:30 am

Honour killing comes from Islamic laws that demand executing married adulterers. According to these laws unmarried "offenders" should, in fact, be flogged in public!

Two members of my middle eastern (extended) family were single unmarried mothers. That is still exceptionally rare but the ladies are in their 50s and not just still alive but respected members of the family. Among muslims, honour killings seem to be endemic to the East Asian communities. Apparently they still happen in Egypt but they are classified and reported as crimes by the media.

63. Mandrake: Charles's letter in support of Islamic 'fundamentalism'

Comment #113668 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 10:13 am

he understood the "frustrations" Muslims experience "as a result of apparent Western misunderstanding and misrepresentation.


That was certainly true, before the muslims eventually lost the plot and tipped the balance.

64. Violence fear over Islam film

Comment #113656 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 9:57 am

Can't they think of any other way to engage muslims other than the "burn this or get the hell out of here" approach?

BBC's Hard Talk would occasionally invite a muslim leader and grill them over hardline views (especially so when Tim Sebastian was around). If the Dutch emulate such government-sponsored debates that may prove much more effective than the letting the irresponsible freedom-to-offend junkies to continue to pour oil on the fire.

65. What Religion's Blind Stranglehold on America Is Doing to Our Democracy

Comment #113529 by Vinelectric on January 20, 2008 at 12:03 am

jshuey

Modern forms of representative democracies e.g the United Kingdom do have their charters (Magna Carta) and other forms of codified treaties that protect against the 'tyranny by majority' and other byproducts of a Greek-styled democracy. Apart from a written (but still ammendable) constitution all other aspects of legislation and election in a "Republic" appear essentially democratic.

Religious persuasion can contaminate the legistlative process even within a Republic, and in several significant ways, without touching the cornerstones of the constitution. A healthy state of 'democractic' debate should prevent this but self declared religious moral absolutism would jeapordise it. The author's point sounds pretty straight forward.

66. New Findings Confirm Darwin's Theory: Evolution Not Random

Comment #113450 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 3:22 pm

innit?

67. New Findings Confirm Darwin's Theory: Evolution Not Random

Comment #113444 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 3:14 pm

Donald

This is the Medline entry:


Curr Biol. 2007 Nov 20;17(22):1925-37


Trends, stasis, and drift in the evolution of nematode vulva development.
Kiontke K, Barrière A, Kolotuev I, Podbilewicz B, Sommer R, Fitch DH, Félix MA.

Department of Biology, New York University, Main Building, Room 1009, 100 Washington Square East, New York, New York 10003, USA. kk52@nyu.edu

BACKGROUND: A surprising amount of developmental variation has been observed for otherwise highly conserved features, a phenomenon known as developmental system drift. Either stochastic processes (e.g., drift and absence of selection-independent constraints) or deterministic processes (e.g., selection or constraints) could be the predominate mechanism for the evolution of such variation. We tested whether evolutionary patterns of change were unbiased or biased, as predicted by the stochastic or deterministic hypotheses, respectively. As a model, we used the nematode vulva, a highly conserved, essential organ, the development of which has been intensively studied in the model systems Caenorhabditis elegans and Pristionchus pacificus.
RESULTS: For 51 rhabditid species, we analyzed more than 40 characteristics of vulva development, including cell fates, fate induction, cell competence, division patterns, morphogenesis, and related aspects of gonad development. We then defined individual characters and plotted their evolution on a phylogeny inferred for 65 species from three nuclear gene sequences. This taxon-dense phylogeny provides for the first time a highly resolved picture of rhabditid evolution and allows the reconstruction of the number and directionality of changes in the vulva development characters. We found an astonishing amount of variation and an even larger number of evolutionary changes, suggesting a high degree of homoplasy (convergences and reversals). Surprisingly, only two characters showed unbiased evolution. Evolution of all other characters was biased.
CONCLUSIONS: We propose that developmental evolution is primarily governed by selection and/or selection-independent constraints, not stochastic processes such as drift in unconstrained phenotypic space.

PMID: 18024125 [PubMed - in process]

68. New Findings Confirm Darwin's Theory: Evolution Not Random

Comment #113411 by Vinelectric on January 19, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Steve

This is the conclusion of the abstract:

We propose that developmental evolution is primarily governed by selection and/or selection-independent constraints, not stochastic processes such as drift in unconstrained phenotypic space.


The message is, apparently, that evolution is deterministic but if you read the paper you'll see that they chose to study an organ which is known to be highly conserved anyway. You may argue that the development of certain organs can 'lock' the evolutionary process into a certain direction but the authors did not make an effort to justify applying this conclusion to evolution in general.

69. Interview with Neil Shubin, author of 'Your Inner Fish'

Comment #112746 by Vinelectric on January 18, 2008 at 3:15 am

The first time I saw the Tiktaalik I thought: well that must be how Crocodiles started out, what' the big deal..

then I looked at the Wikipedia entry and learnt something very significant:

Crocodiles are among the more biologically complex reptiles despite their prehistoric look. Unlike other reptiles they have a four-chambered heart, diaphragm and cerebral cortex.


So they do fit the bill of a transitional form, afterall.

70. Fish out of water: Your Inner Fish

Comment #111392 by Vinelectric on January 14, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Steven Mading

I agree that the writer was talking about a particular type of hernia amongst many. As you pointed out there are several factors that contribute to the problem. Does that not make it even clearer that linking herniae to fish is an oversimplification? You don't need that anatomical anomaly to develop a hernia and, in fact, only a tiny minority of the population devlop herniae even though every single one of them has the anomaly. Surely that developmnetal story can't be that important!

Anyways let's leave out that 'fishy' hernia business and agree that the rest of the article was well put.

Vince

71. Fish out of water: Your Inner Fish

Comment #111318 by Vinelectric on January 14, 2008 at 10:22 am

Nice article but some of the explanations are a bit far fetched.

For example haemorrhoids and varicose veins develop from a primary dysfunction of connective tissue and valves respectively. If you happen to suffer with these conditions you'll find that you didn't have to stand or sit for that long to start them off.

The story about herniae sounds strange too! The defect in the developmental tract of the gonads may explain one of the (commoner) types of herniae (the so called indirect type) but what about herniae in women? or the very common 'direct' hernia or the dangerous femoral hernia? They have nothing to do with that developmental features the writer was talking about.

On the other hand I thought the similarity between hiccups and gill breathing was interesting. I'm even more surprised that anyone went all the way to study them but that makes for good fodder for the lunch break chat!

72. The Moral Instinct

Comment #110753 by Vinelectric on January 12, 2008 at 9:40 am

Consider this moral dilemma: A runaway trolley is about to kill a schoolteacher. You can divert the trolley onto a sidetrack, but the trolley would trip a switch sending a signal to a class of 6-year-olds, giving them permission to name a teddy bear Muhammad. Is it permissible to pull the lever?



Sorry, I couldn't help myself, ..Good one....!!! Now back to the article....

73. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110695 by Vinelectric on January 12, 2008 at 2:04 am

You know what,Steve, growing up in a third world country with ridiculously high infant-maternal mortality rates and miserably short life spans makes you wonder if life actually evolved inspite of the constants. And working in a hospital environment where you are constantly reminded how frail and inept the human form is at handling various trivial worldly insults putts you off from rationally thinking about the universe as being tuned to anything but misery!!


Sorry for the sermon! I understand what you're saying but I just can't shake off the pessimism. I better see my shrink!

74. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110612 by Vinelectric on January 11, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Donald, Steve

Thanks for the explanations.

75. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110611 by Vinelectric on January 11, 2008 at 3:30 pm

Brian
Don't even bother... I chuckled when someone wrote in to describe them as aatheists..... !

76. Why (Almost All) Cosmologists are Atheists

Comment #110593 by Vinelectric on January 11, 2008 at 2:52 pm

...many of the regularities that physics has uncovered in the last century are symmetric in time, and thus could be regarded as operating in either direction, but others are not, e.g. second law of thermodynamics....


Donald or Steve Zara

I have no training in this field but Brian Greene in his "Fabric of the Cosmos" explains that the second law of thermodynamics is time symmetrical. He gives an example of a melting ice cube.

In reverse theres is an apparent decrease in entropy as the water freezes but this comes at the expense of the cooling device operating to bring this about and, effectively, increasing overall entropy.

Is this not true?

77. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #110152 by Vinelectric on January 10, 2008 at 2:47 pm

epeeist

I posted a list of quotations, some from theist sources and some not, of where the Golden Rule was in place before Jesus was supposedly born.


Would you oblige us with the link? I can sift through your posts but that would take ages! I think that would be very helpful in more than one way.

Oh crap! I remember, my friends will say that: You see this shows you that God's message to mankind through history has been consistent all along!

You know, in Islam, we had this thing about numerous but (?) unidentified sub-prophets that god sends as 'wise men' to keep social order in check! Anyway please send us the link.

Vince

78. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #110136 by Vinelectric on January 10, 2008 at 2:34 pm

ADH

namely the delusion that atheism inclines people to be better


Absolutely not true. Atheism is being advocated as a natural conclusion to rationality. It has no direct bearing on morality and you won't find many (if any) on this forum who would claim otherwise.

On the other hand it could be argued that non-theism frees one from any obligation to a deity and thus any good deed is done for the pure sake of it. As someone wrote here before "without god, we have none but each other". That, to me, not just makes the conceopt of a god superfluous it actually makes it immoral, in a way, to give in charity under the banner of religion.

79. Blind Faiths

Comment #110032 by Vinelectric on January 10, 2008 at 11:03 am

Quoting from Quran chapter 9

(4) (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you......


and

(6) If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure.....


Muhammad came to the end of his tether when he wrote that chapter 9 and "dropped the bomb on Hiroshima", after giving a four months notice! He was definitely not the cuddly type but he was not your Genghis Khan either.

If you want to engage muslims choose your polemics carefully lest you waste your time with half-quoted texts that are guaranteed not to impress your audience. Instead try the following: murdering apostates, homosexuals, adulterers, punishment of the grave, slavery, domestic abuse...etc all clearly endorsed/ prescribed by Muhammad in the Qur'an or the main texts of the hadiths.

80. Irreligion: A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up

Comment #109809 by Vinelectric on January 9, 2008 at 7:13 pm

BigCity

I don't really understand how the author being a mathematician figures into the argument.


And I can't figure out why you need a specialist to explain something that is, apparently, central to our existence! Sort of gives it away, doesn't it?

81. Irreligion: A Mathematician Explains Why the Arguments for God Just Don't Add Up

Comment #109808 by Vinelectric on January 9, 2008 at 6:59 pm

epeeist

P1 - is false. We know that things like virtual particles are created and annihilated all the time.


Unless you're familiar with particle/quantum physics you may think of this as yet another form of an argument from ignorance!

I'm sure you've come across this parody before:
"We scientists don't know a cause for such particles, thus we assume there is no cause and that the kalam argument falls flat on its nose"

In layman's logic this comes across as a sound criticism to your refusal of the first premise of the kalam or similar arguments. I prefer to criticize the "assertion of a cause when there's demonstrably none". Works everytime!

82. The Mind of the Market

Comment #109426 by Vinelectric on January 9, 2008 at 3:34 am

Brian

Comments are moderated. If I were you I'd ignore them. Waste of time.

83. Blind Faiths

Comment #108632 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:18 am

Including you?

84. Blind Faiths

Comment #108625 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:11 am

al-rawandi

Skip over whatever Fanusi writes.

85. Blind Faiths

Comment #108620 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 11:02 am

...the way to rescue Western civilization from a path of suicide is to challenge its tradition of reason...



mmmm...NEXTTT !

86. Did mozzies, not a meteor, do for the dinosaurs?

Comment #108615 by Vinelectric on January 7, 2008 at 10:51 am

Diacanu
It's not just that you think alike, you both avatars that have no eyes/concealed eyes or something disturbing about them. I find them quite scary!!!

Edit: my eyes are concealed in a cool friendly pair of sunglasses (if you want to protest!)

87. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108171 by Vinelectric on January 6, 2008 at 6:59 am

wow Vinelectric, that was awesome.

Crap,robotaholic, that was disappointing..!

Godlessheathen, to confirm your conclusions, my intention was to challenge theists who believe all natural phoenomena are under the control of a deity. Maybe I should talk about suffering rather than 'evil'.

88. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108117 by Vinelectric on January 6, 2008 at 3:55 am

Godlessheathen and robotaholic

Some forms of evil may be subjective but one visit to your local hospice or cancer unit should convince you that evil is too manifest in this world for the theodicist to ignore.

89. Six Reasons to be an Atheist

Comment #108111 by Vinelectric on January 6, 2008 at 3:40 am

The monotheisms teach that the purpose of life is:

1. To worship a god who doesn't really need it.
2. A "test of faith" although the creator knows how it is goin to end anyway ...or...
3. To grow in virtue i.e God is either unwilling or unable to create morally "mature" beings.

I remember being so disgusted by such claims I decided it was irresponsible to bring children into the world to entertain this god!

90. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107903 by Vinelectric on January 5, 2008 at 2:54 pm

krisking

There is indeed a lot of obscurantism in modern Christianity and Judaism.

91. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107896 by Vinelectric on January 5, 2008 at 2:50 pm

He'sAVeryNaughtyBoy

I've dug up my Hebrew bible with the Rashi commentary. The whole Earth was flooded, at least according to the Jewish tradition. So yes it was 100% irrespective of what krisking is up to!

92. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107881 by Vinelectric on January 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm

True ,krisking.
Edit: I'm referring to your statement on the indigenous Americans.

93. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107869 by Vinelectric on January 5, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Secularist

The problem is that some Muslims don't recognize in Israel right to exist and because of religious reason and not any occupation or something like that.


That is true but as you know the West bank is littered with relgious settlers that have immigrated to Israel from all around the globe for this specific purpose.

But even without a religious context I don't see how it is acceptable that thousands (possibly 2 million) Arabs were displaced to allow the Israelis to establish a country in a land they ruled around two millenia earlier.

94. Sam Harris debate with Rabbi David Wolpe

Comment #107767 by Vinelectric on January 5, 2008 at 9:03 am

Rabbi Dunlope

The challenge of religion is to transcend the 'other'..


I wouldn't say this of Judaism. They're not big on converts, aren't they?

Overall this is one of the best debates posted on the website.

95. Moderates Storm The Religious Battlefield

Comment #106282 by Vinelectric on January 2, 2008 at 3:50 pm

al-rawandi

This is off topic but I've just read the Wikipedia entry on Ibn al rawandi. What a shock! Never heard of him before and never thought anyone dared to challenge religion as a source of morality back then. Thanks.

96. A War On Science

Comment #105573 by Vinelectric on January 1, 2008 at 4:36 am

Thanks Steve
Enjoy the cool soggy afternoon!

97. A War On Science

Comment #105569 by Vinelectric on January 1, 2008 at 4:12 am

shane McKee

I agree but I can't put a finger on where I went wrong on this one. A bacterial flagellum offers an extra survival advantage but a biochemical process is essential for life. One faulty component in a metabolic pathway results in a disabling condition (e.g Lesch-Nyhan syndrome) or limits life expectancy to early childhood (e.g Tay Sach's disease). Without that no evolution takes place.

mdowe
I'm not joking. You either know the answer or you don't!!

Seriously, how do you support life with half a Krebs cycle? If it turns out that bacteria/protozoa have simpler versions of these cycles I'd be relieved. Otherwise I'd have to ask those interested in Abiogenesis.

Anyone out there trained in Biochemistry? please help...

98. A War On Science

Comment #105427 by Vinelectric on December 31, 2007 at 2:24 pm

Where would I read on the evolution of biochemical processes (if such a branch of science exists)?

As far as I can remember any break in the chain of glycogen, fatty acid metabolism or the electron transport chain would lead to a fatal "inborn error of metabolism".

Are such processes not irreducibly complex?

Maybe that would be the next target for creatonists. I wouldn't really mind. The evolutionary answers to Behe's challenges have strengthened my understanding of evolution and settled doubts within my heart. I don't agree with RD that the trial was a waste of time or a set back but rather a very educational excercise (if it weren't intentionally misleading).

You know what I mean!

Happy new year.

99. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #105287 by Vinelectric on December 31, 2007 at 5:03 am

Goatboy36

You're barking mad! Why would I think you could possibly be obsessed with me? I meant your obsession with Islam. You rarely post anywhere else and you go into hiding. As soon as something comes up on Islalm you're all over the place being all agitated and asking for trouble!

If you weren't asking for trouble why do you demand I comment on the film? Did we not have a bitter row over that a wee while ago? Did you not say to me once: "the film was shown once on Dutch TV, get over it" ?

But you can't get enough of your obsessions don't you?

100. Submission, 'Part 1'

Comment #105252 by Vinelectric on December 31, 2007 at 2:14 am

Goatboy36

I see this has awaken your obsessions!

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