51. Goodness without Godliness

Comment #43011 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:20 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

52. Hubble Finds Ring of Dark Matter

Comment #43010 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:19 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

53. Christopher Hitchens to God: Drop Dead

Comment #43008 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:19 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

54. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #43006 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:18 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

55. Jerry Falwell's Hit Parade

Comment #43005 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:18 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

56. Manufacturing belief

Comment #43004 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:17 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

57. Evolution Opponent Is in Line for Schools Post

Comment #43003 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:16 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

58. Hitchens on Falwell

Comment #43001 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 9:15 am

Does anyone here object to me attending mass today at St. Ann's in North St. Louis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. Let me know ASAP, because I would need to leave soon if I go.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

59. Manufacturing belief

Comment #42981 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 8:00 am

Question mark-

If the universe had a Creator (which I believe), and He wanted to offer His children the opportunity to know him freely without force, then I'd say the universe we observe has exactly these properties. Also if God used evolution to make us, wouldn't memetic evolution also operate for religions that people followed to know this God. Perhaps this is why Catholicism is the largest religion in the world- it happens to be the most fit in the universe that God created (and sent his Son to). The only difference I see is that you put your faith in Dan Dennett, a hostile self-serving college professor who won't seem to die, and I put my faith in Jesus, a loving selfless man who freely died for us.

I think Catholicism is beneficial. But also true. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Avenue
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

60. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42963 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:36 am

Also, thanks for the job offer Mr. Benson. But I've already made arrangements. Again, I appreciate everything you're doing. Talk to you later,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

61. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42961 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:35 am

Thanks for your diagnosis Mr. Benson. I'll make an appointment Monday morning. After my session, could we talk about M-theory? Thanks for all of your help. It's good to know that people care.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

62. The Paradoxical Hatred of Christopher Hitchens

Comment #42953 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:12 am

Brian- I really am a Catholic.

63. The Paradoxical Hatred of Christopher Hitchens

Comment #42952 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:11 am

Oh well then you should know that the Catholic Church is the best source of hope and truth in the world. Thanks, I finally found an ally on this site. Good luck at the UFO meeting today. Those people are crazy and it won't be easy to bring them the Good News. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

64. The Paradoxical Hatred of Christopher Hitchens

Comment #42945 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:07 am

I'm sorry scooternyc, but St. Louis is a beacon of enlightened thinking. That's why the pope visited us and that's why we have the INTERNATIONAL BOWLING HALL OF FAME. Not New York. You know what they say about guys who build big skyscrapers?

Thanks for being a good sport scooternyc,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

65. Jerry Falwell's Hit Parade

Comment #42942 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 6:03 am

Well, in a certain sense, it was a historical event. Whenever the first humans evolved, there was a first man and woman who decided to use knowledge to separate creation into good and evil, which is not how God intended it. I think consciousness/free will has its downside: people can misuse it. That certainly happens, and early in our species history, that happened once for the first time. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

66. The Paradoxical Hatred of Christopher Hitchens

Comment #42937 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:59 am

Francis Collins argues against NOMA (non-overlapping magesteria) and compartmentalizing. I think you should re-read his book. There is really only one Christian church, the one started by Jesus (God) himself. It's called the Catholic church. They have mass every Sunday. You could probably attend on such service today. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

67. Jerry Falwell's Hit Parade

Comment #42934 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:56 am

Hmmm, I don't know any Catholics who read it literally. Maybe there are some. Augustine of Hippo (4th century) said this in De Genesi ad Litteram:

"In matters that are so obscure and far beyond our vision, we find in Holy Scripture passages which can be interpreted in very different ways without prejudice to the faith we have received. In such cases, we should not rush in headlong and so firmly take our stand on one side that, if further progress in the search for truth justly undermines this position, we too fall with it."


I have a good spam filter. Call me if you ever want to attend mass stateside. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

68. Jerry Falwell's Hit Parade

Comment #42931 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:52 am

There is no contradiction between Catholicism and evolution. Read the writings of Francis Collins, Arthur Peacocke, John Polkinghonre, Kenneth Miller... you'll see. Evolution was a pretty smart way to create the world. I say good job God. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

69. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42924 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:45 am

Why are you ignoring my request to end this discussion thread? I think that is a legitimate request. Tell me if it's not. There has been a lot of anger here and I think we'll all be better off if we discontinue this topic. We're all guilty, me Yorker steve99 island1. Let's move on, start afresh, discuss something new. Or perhaps turn off our computers and go enjoy the day. Start a compost pile. Bring your newspapers to the recycling facility. Visit your grandmother. Go through your old clothes and find some to give to the poor. Work on the garden. Play some golf. There's a world of possibilities. Let's just stop the hate. Thanks for reading this,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

70. Jerry Falwell's Hit Parade

Comment #42921 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:39 am

The point of Genesis 1 is that "God said it was good." .... pretty simple idea. The author(s) recognized that the world they inhabited started somewhere, based on their experience of life, they thought it was a personal God who made good things. Pretty simple. I think scientists like Einstein, Sagan, George Wald, Hawking, etc... would agree. The universe is a good place.

Genesis 2 seems to discuss why things are often not so good in this world. People decided they could separate God's creation into their categories of 'good and evil', when it's really all good. I think this is true. Ann Druyan wrote an article once saying that Gen2 was anti-intellectual because it forbids us from eating from the "tree of knowledge." She misquotes that text however. It's the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." I discussed this article with her once and pointed out that most of the world's conflicts are the result of people trying to separate creation into good and evil (the Jews/Muslim conflict, racism, manifest destiny...) Perhaps Gen2 is just an early account of the point in our evolutionary history when humans developed consciousness, which is not all good (read David Bohm's 'Thought as a System' for more on this). I think Jesus solves these problems for us. I'm not sure how well I explained this, hope it helps.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Ave
St Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

71. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42915 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 5:17 am

steve99-
I too enjoy discussing challenging ideas about religion. I don't think that is what happens here. When I was an atheist, I contacted Richard to suggest that atheists try to create medical outreach programs because most people encounter science through their doctors. It could have worked. Provide healthcare, discuss the science behind the treatment and then challenge people to reconsider their religion, which I thought caused all the world's problems back then. Richard let me down. He sincerely hurt my feelings because I thought he was a source of reason and hope in the world. I now realize that he is merely a delusional opportunist who happens to have a legion of (intelligent) followers. Paul Farmer, MD PhD, is a Catholic physician at Harvard, and he has done a great deal of work to bring medical treatment to the poor, while also occasionally discussing his faith. He's my new hero. I really don't think Richard should continue to teach or write. He let me down. I also would be happy to discuss Catholicism with you sometime, but not on this website. You need an open heart to understand Catholicism, and I don't think most posters here are ready to make that kind of change. Thanks. Goodbye,

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Avenue
St Louis MO 63108

72. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42907 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 4:57 am

Thanks BaronOchs. I have tried to do something about it. The problem is that universities' first priority is to protect their tenured professors, often at the expense of students and employees. I think this is one reason why academia is such a hostile place and events like Elizabeth Shin's suicide and the Virginia Tech shootings occur. But that's just my uninformed opinion. I may still try to take legal action. But my first priority is to start working for a Catholic university and to submit my 2008 apps for MD PhD programs. (I want to be a plastic surgeon and try to research ways of making the field socially acceptable, getting a PhD in medical anthropology or ethics). I also really truly want to cut ties with this website. I don't want to continue to discuss this topic. I have made up my mind and I just want to move on. You all are free to continue to call me a bigot. I would like to point out, however, that I have already apologized and don't know what you want me to do now. Perhaps we could just end this discussion thread and everyone move on. Thanks again for your thoughts Baron. Best wishes.

Ryan Vilbig
(636)236-5469
407 N Taylor Avenue
St. Louis MO 63108
ryan.vilbig@gmail.com

73. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42896 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 20, 2007 at 4:37 am

I give up. No one wants to address my thoughts on M-theory, which was the only reason I joined this little meaningless site. I'm quitting now for good. Have fun re-affirming eachother's atheism and calling me a bigot while I'm gone. I'm going to church at St. Ann's in North St. Louis today (I'm the only white person in the parish). You are all welcome to come. The pastor, Father John Vogler, is an incredibly nice man. He works with the prison ministry (do atheists bring love and hope to criminals too? not that I know of). I also need to confess that anti-Semitic remarks I made here when I grew upset that no one would disuss M-theory. I'm so glad that Catholics have the sacrament of reconciliation (do atheists have a sacrament of reconciliation). Alright, I need to get going. God bless you all.

74. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42819 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 19, 2007 at 9:47 pm

One more comment, I suppose...

steve99 in 28. Comment #42493 noted that:
>You may wish to note that the most famous
>scientist of the past century, Einstein, was
>Jewish.

Lest we forget that his work parasitized the work of Newton and Maxwell, two thoroughly devout Christians... (*joke*) Just leave it to a Jew to ruin everything for the rest of us. But seriously, just leave it to a Jew to ruin everything for the rest of us....

I guess I'm just bitter that a Jew at WashU fired me after I was open-minded and attended a Catholic retreat. Still 14 million of those power-loving rats. That's one religion that needs to go, you fellas should work on that after you realize that atheism is indefensible and convert to Catholicism. Missionaries!

"What members of an academy of science have in common is a certain form of semiparasitic living." -Erwin Chargaff.... To that statement, I might like to add that atheists are just a smaller club of little boys who like to think about Ann Druyan when they're jerking off. Sorry, sad but true. Ask Richard.

Here comes the backlash. Yeah!!!

75. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42812 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 19, 2007 at 8:10 pm

This is truly my last post, I really think that this site should be shut-down and that Oxford should dismiss Mr. Darkwins for embarrassing the scientific community by making claims that he cannot substantiate with evidence.

I just wanted to say that Paul Davies is a close friend of mine and that his 'Goldilocks enigma' is just a way of conveying that we can imagine other universes that aren't right for life (eg. a different resonance energy for a third helium to stick to beryllium to form carbon, a universe without quantum entanglement, a universe without the potential for consciousness at the quantum level). Yorker suggests in his post that the thought of these other universes is irrelevant. That is a rather unscientific idea. It is common practice for scientists to imagine other universes to test a hypothesis. For example, the Meselson-Stahl experiment proposed two possible scenarios (different universes if you will): that DNA was replicated in a semiconservative or a nonconservative fashion. These competing hypotheses were tested against each other by incorporating heavy nitrogen into replicating bacteria and assessing the density of the DNA after several generations... They imagined another universe to enable them to interpret their results.

The problem with M-theory, in my opinion, is that it presupposes the existence of these other universes to explain ours. Also, M-theorists seem driven by a goal to show that our universe can be explained without a Creator. Matthew Meselson did not have to assume the actual existence of other universes nor did he necessarily have to make disproving the existence of God his goal. M-theory is not science in my opinion.

I suggest that posters on this site read the following texts with an open mind and open heart: Francis Collins' "The Language of God," John Polkinghorne's "Exploring Reality," Arthur Peacocke's "Evolution:.. friend of faith," and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This texts should be a good starting point for your journey. Good luck with your readings and God bless!

76. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42484 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 9:30 am

Fedler,
I'm really not interested in investing a lot of time on this site, I just wanted to comment on M-theory. Regarding the Crusades, I think religion is a natural phenomenon, and is the product of the actions of its followers (sometimes zealous, eg Hitchens, Dawkins). Someone once said that the greatest mistake religion ever made was to become involved with people. Likewise, the greatest mistake atheism ever made was letting Christopher Hitchens on TV. I think if you're really honest, you'll agree that 'atheists' follow a religion too - that's why Richard has to update his website constantly and why you all feel the need to protect him by posting on the website. I used to be a zealous atheist until I sent Richard an email many months ago telling him that atheists should take on social medicine because most people interact with science through their doctors. He never responded but started posting info on medicine on this site, taking credit for my idea. I think Richard is an opportunist. I later was invited to attend a Catholic retreat by an MD-PhD at WashU med school in St. Louis. I realized that Jesus really had a universal message that had nothing to do with science. Richard just wants to feel good about himself by putting down everyone else. I don't want to be a part of that. There are plenty of good scientists who are Catholic: Mendel, Pastuer, von Neumann, Lemaitre, Lawrence Krauss, Kenneth Miller, etc. I'm sticking with them. You guys can post away here, but this is it for me. I think you're wasting your life.

77. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42476 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 9:17 am

Steve, tell you what. You rerun history in another multiverse and start modern science in a culture that worships the sun or moon, then I'll reconsider my observation. Cardinal Bellarmine, who led the Inquisition against Galileo, wrote several letters to colleagues stating that scripture re-interpretation would be necessary if the heliocentric model explained new observations. Get your history straight Stevo.

78. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42473 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 9:14 am

That the universe is 6000 yrs old and that God will smite you if you're not nice to me because I started going to church recently. Just ask Richard, he'll tell you all about. Thanks for your question Cool on Oolon.

79. Christopher Hitchens to God: Drop Dead

Comment #42471 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 9:11 am

Mr. Benson,
Don't we as scientists pick and choose between the gravity and alchemy of Newton's writings? Certainly. On what grounds? Our intellect. Likewise, as a religious person, I can use my sense of the Moral law to understand the meaning of the stories of the Old Testament. I think faith is a free choice: When confronted with the profound mystery of existence, I chose to believe it had a Creator. When confronted with the Moral law within me, I chose to believe that the Creator has intentions for me. When confronted with the unique historical reality of Jesus, I chose to believe he was God. (I don't think Dawkins is willing to let us crucify him for his message. We just have to bear his constant presence in the media until he eventually dies.)

I agree with Freeman Dyson: "The more I examine the universe and the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known we were coming." I think Jesus was in the works from the start. I think you're skewing the evidence if you think religion is the 'Source of all Evil".... And I think faith is uplifting, not mindless. Thanks for reading this.

80. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42460 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 8:49 am

Fedler,
I am religious. I don't love infinite regress. I just think the truths of Christianity are more fundamental to the universe I observe than evolution or string theory. You dismiss as insignificant the question of why there is something instead of nothing. I think that is the most fundamental question. When faced with this question, I always recall the thought that Richard Feynman left on his chalkboard at the time of his death: "What I cannot create, I do not understand." The universe is a profound mystery. Honest scientists admit that. I truly believe Christianity opens us to understanding it (ever wonder why modern science didn't develop in Egypt or China instead of Christian Europe?). It's a great shame that well-intentioned scientists have angrily initiated a Crusade against a religion that poses no threat to science, and also that well-intentioned Christians have fearfully turned to Creationism to protect themselves. The world is a mess. This website only exacerbates this.

81. The Cyclic Universe: A Talk With Neil Turok

Comment #42453 by Ryan.Vilbig on May 18, 2007 at 8:22 am

He mentions that a negative result by the Planck satellite's search for gravitational waves would support your theory. I disagree. For a theory to be worthwhile it should explain something new. For example, Arthur Eddington applied general relativity to predict observations of stars near the eclipsed sun. I could hypothesize that the flying spaghetti monster gobbled up the gravitational waves and that would be just as worthy of a theory as yours. Sorry, but I find that unconvincing. Also, even if there is a steady state universe behind a cycle of big bangs, who's to say that God didn't fabricate the appearance of this to fool us, just like He planted dinosaur bones in the fossil record. But seriously, why should there be any universe, especially a universe in which carbon may readily form, in which intelligence life may evolve and in which consciousness appears to cause the collapse of the quantum waveform. Also, as far as I know, the equations of M-theory don't explain the Moral law, which I believe exists, or Jesus, whom I believe is God. I don't think this theory is capable of proving anything novel about the universe.