51. Breeding for God

Comment #222316 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 6:19 am

Al,

I was hoping you'd pick up on this. I put it in there for you.

I'd expected a strong rebuttal, but it seems you agree, they are humiliated and they have humiliated themselves. But they have also been humiliated by others - and continually.

Whether the humiliation is right or wrong does not really matter, what matters is that it gives a cause to identify with.

Do you think that plays a part, or not at all?

Edit: (rant to self) For [bleep] sake, put the ? in the right place!

52. Breeding for God

Comment #222312 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 6:03 am

;)

Dare I suggest that attitudes have been hardened by the foreign policy issues? From a distance, to a young person who identifies themselves as "Muslim" the Middle East conflict, the ongoing humiliation of Islamic nations might easily cause an upsurge of patriotic zeal.

Sorry to mix nationalism with religion here for a moment, but if there were continual wars being fought between French and British interests in a far flung field perhaps there would be greater incidence of "rebellion" amongst the existent population and the 2nd generation Brits?

53. Breeding for God

Comment #222308 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 5:56 am

"Their children appear to have radicalized as a way to rebel against their parents.

That is why I think that arm chair jihadism may be a manifestation of youthful rebellion and a response to an identity crisis.


As I said before, the fact that most Muslim radicals are young men under 35 is an important piece of demographic information that has been overlooked. "

This is also quite true. I observe that second generation Brits out here can speak French perfectly and most observe French customs and hold French opinions about the place of politicians in society.

But some do go back to Britain, professing to hate all French things.

I wonder if they will return when they grow up at the age of 35.

Sorry to snip so much, I just didn't want to quote the entire post over again.

54. Breeding for God

Comment #222302 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 5:45 am

#219

As a woolly liberal bowing down to extremist views I sit corrected.

55. Breeding for God

Comment #222300 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 5:36 am

"Finally, you cannot extrapolate from statistics on first or second generation immigrants, since they are the people who experience the greatest culture shock (including the shock of a foreign language) so presumably they will have the highest percentage of fundamentalists."

Your point about culture shock is on the nail. It is said around here that when the British come to live here they suffer culture shock and get fundamentalist about marmite on toast, cricket and Birds Custard.

56. Breeding for God

Comment #222260 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 4:01 am

For a bolt of lightning I presume.

A quick review of Old Sarums' posts reveals an accurate summary of the fallacies and the counter argument.

I will get onto our government and ask them to build a line right around Paris so the Eurostar can be used to ship the undesirables who refuse to bow down to this new law straight down to the Orient without passing Go shall I?

Mad.

57. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222249 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 3:36 am

"Yes we do. I can detail it, if you want me to."

Well if you wouldn't mind, but I'm quite happy next time I'm near an English library to get my mits on Decline and Fall, I was intending to anyway after reading that Waughs' novel was inspired by that as a teaching text. I have a love of all things ancient Greek, so I hopefully will take to it like a duck to water.

"Not that I didn't already provide strong references for comparing attitudes toward homosexuality in the ancient world and later in christian Europe, but I am glad to expand on it, if needed."

Yes indeed, but again it doesn't prove the point that religion is the cause of homophobia, just that there is a link between Christianity, Judaism, Islam and homophobia.

"Nevertheless, he began criminalising sexual promiscuity and other "unpious practises" , IMMEDIATELY AFTER his conversion. Read for yourself the description of the ensuing persecutions."

How depressing. That is the strongest reference you have provided so far. A little bit like Henry V turning from your typical prince to your typical religious bigot.

"I almost entirely agree, there. Still, prejudices are cultural, and if the idiot grew up in hotbed of religious intolerance dominating his culture, you can predict with certainty which prejudices will affect him."

Another strong argument that I have to concede.

"I share your passion for a good argument, and it certainly is a pleasure having it with you. "

Ditto, and thank you. My opinion has just been swayed by your argument from "it is all the followers' fault" to "it is far more complex than that and there is something about the prudish mores of Christianity (and Puritanism) that is a problem.".

I wonder if it has to do with going from multiple Gods who had more arguments, dust ups and bad behaviour than your average net forum to one god, and the requirements that "one god" places on "perfection". If indeed it does.

(edit) Perhaps Christianity is so successful because it plays to peoples' prejudices (like a demagogue does) and legitimises them.

________
Many is not the same as "most".

58. Breeding for God

Comment #222233 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 2:42 am

#159

"True, but the Ayatollah is in a position of considerable power and influence. In our countries, fanatics like the Phelps can't even exercise power over Louis Theroux. "

Exactly, when the religious gain power and attempt to rule on the basis of irrational precepts, that is when the trouble begins. To argue is a sin, to criticise is to be ostracised (or killed).

Religion is just another path to tyranny. That is why the best answer is to keep policing that line (or building up that wall).

Still, you'll never get an irrational person to admit they are being irrational. But at least, if it is about politics, you are permitted to say "bullshit!" without facing serious consequences.

59. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222232 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 2:37 am

"Medieval Europe was for its greater part christianised by the sword of Charlesmagne, hardly a free choice of conversion, yet homophobia appears only afterwards."

Do we know that for a fact? I am reminded of Crime figures vs Recorded Crime. Again, we come to cause, is religion just the excuse or the cause?

"Then what are we doing here, fighting against religion? By your reasoning religion could be regarded as exempt from blame in all cases."

Because it is being used as an excuse. Take away the excuses through force of logic and you reach the inner person. If the inner person is still an irrational, deluded, homophobic "idiot" ( ;-) ), then they are going to have to think a bit for themselves and not prop their own prejudices up on the crutch of an established religion.

Lets beg another question which has bearing.

How many "religious homophobes" have smiled politely and said "My religion requires it of me, I'm not sure I agree but there you go, please go get cured."?

I suspect if you weren't truly a homophobe with an excuse (even self hating homosexuals like Haggard), you would just not mention it, nor protest against homosexual marriages.

We know that religion is man made, that means the homophobia is too.

I'd just remove the way these people legitimise their bigotry and their refusal to persuade, compromise or use evidence in any meaningful way.

Thats why I am here, plus I like a good argument.

Edit - The Scottish Play, just a joke, "lead on MacDuff" often used as a "go on then, I'll follow."
________
Many is not the same as "most".

60. Breeding for God

Comment #222225 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 2:14 am

"Is it a generalisation to assume that muslims actually believe what they claim to believe?"

It can be easily demonstrated:

There is a reason why all these religions have what they call "fundamentalists" and "extremists" and even "reform groups" (well, I was thinking of the Judaism there, but someone who gives a flying one will no doubt point out whether there is an equivalent Islamic one). I watched a debate at the height of the 2003 buildup between a "moderate" Muslim and an extremist. The "moderate" was saying that terrorism has no place in Islam, and the extremist was quoting passages from the Qu'ran and shrieking that the "moderate" was not a proper Muslim.

Sweet.

That is because beauty, like truth, is in the eye of the believer. Adherents choose (for want of a better word) to follow an interpretation, and they cherry pick. Some of them pick every cherry in the field, including the bits that contradict every other cherry.

I suspect it is also the reason why religious "moderates" fear the fundamentalists, as deep down they know they aren't really following the scripture at all...

A lot of believers seem deeply confused to me, they trot out these scriptural assertions and then fail to follow them knowingly.

Then you have the othordox Jews in North London building an enclave in the streets to allow them to avoid the laws of the Sabbath.

It is amazing how much people will bend their own dogma to fit their situation.

61. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222224 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 2:07 am

"Forgive the lack of clarity, I am at work and I will post shoddily for a while, if at all."

I have the same problem.

"What I meant is that a religion whose tenets include homophobia can historically be shown as the reason for a particular culture to succumb to intolerance toward gay people."

That sounds again like religion being used as the excuse rather than religion causing the homophobia.

"Find me an instance of widespread homophobia in places where no religion demands it from its followers, and I will reconsider."

Well I shouldn't have to do that, I'm sure by force of argument alone (if that doesn't work insults and flames are something I'm told work well) I can convince you.

"We all know that religions are man-made, so this begs the question."

It also answers it.

"Please, Doc, provide a link to MacDuff, I never heard of him."


The Scottish Play. Lead on MacDuff.

(I'm an idiot, Scottish is Mac and Irish is Mc - or something).

62. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222214 by Dr Doctor on July 31, 2008 at 1:15 am

"Religion clearly is the cause of homophobia, and this is very easy to demonstrate."

Demonstrate on MacDuff.

"Careful with hasty generalisations: homophobia does not equal demagoguery, although it spreads through it."

I would never claim it does equal it.


"Religion clearly is the cause of homophobia, and this is very easy to demonstrate."

"Look no further than the greco-roman world, or modern cultures (like Thai) uncontaminated by the abrahamic religions. You shall find that not only was/is homosexuality accepted, but even encouraged to stunning degrees, both in real life and in literature."

Error. Error. Does not compute. I said religion, I didn't say Abrahmic religions. Are you saying there was no religion in the ancient world? If so, how can religion be the cause of it rather than the excuse?

Wouldn't it be more logical to say that if there was no mass homophobia, then an homophobic man added homophobic passages into a popular religion, does that make religion the cause?

I think not.

(edit: Mc to Mac)

63. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #222203 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 10:26 pm

"How fucking stupid is that? Why can't others see this?"

What is worse is that some would emulate the stupidity even without a God figure.

Demagoguery is rampant in the West, even by people who believe they can think their way out of a paper bag.

So my question is, is religion the excuse or the cause?

If the cause, why do so many non religious succumb to this mentality?

64. To beat extremism we must dissolve religious groups

Comment #221816 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 7:07 am

Layla

It is politician speak for "we haven't got a clue, so sort the problem out amongst yourselves."

65. Breeding for God

Comment #221762 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 4:53 am

"What have Muslims contributed en-masse to human civilization in (say) the last 5 centuries? "

What do you mean "contributed en-masse"? Do you mean a sum total of contributions, or something that Muslims have contributed as a joint effort?

66. Breeding for God

Comment #221756 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 4:32 am

The key is in the definition of the word alien:

1. Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
2. Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange. See Synonyms at foreign.
3. Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed, as in nature: emotions alien to her temperament.


n.

1. An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.
2. A person from another and very different family, people, or place.
3. A person who is not included in a group; an outsider.
4. A creature from outer space: a story about an invasion of aliens.
5. Ecology An organism, especially a plant or animal, that occurs in or is naturalized in a region to which it is not native.

So no, xenophobia seems reasonably apt.

I think Philip has it right, you might want to do something about something but why sacrifice your own moral code to do it. If you would sacrifice your ethics for that group, why not any group?

If Islam is an idea, defeat the parts of the idea that are "wrong". If Islam is a set of attributes foreign to oneself, then the idea will never be defeated because the problem is inside yourself.

Ethnic/cultural cleansing, no matter how you want to repackage and no matter who is doing it is abhorrent.

67. Breeding for God

Comment #221751 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 4:22 am

Yeah, I knew what you meant. If you are naturalised in a country no matter if you migrated or were born here then you aren't "foreign" and people really need to get over themselves.

What exactly do these knee-jerk xenophobes want, ethnic cleansing to "undo" the "damage"?

Win the battle of hearts and minds, and the rest will follow. Preach ignorance, intolerance and dissemble on grounds of "it is a religion not a race" and you won't win anything. Break down the barriers to compartmentalisation (and the resulting sectarianism) and you might get the end result you want.

I cringe every time I hear someone say "it was a nice neighbourhood until they all moved in.".

68. Council ban on atheist websites

Comment #221748 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 4:19 am

"In other words, the article is pure crap, and the National Secular Society is either ignorant of Bluecoat software, spoiling for a fight, or both. In any case, their allegations are essentially baseless, and the city of Birmingham could quite easily win any lawsuit."

I'm sorry, this is incorrect. Read on...

"If not, the city still has an "out" in that the software itself isn't set up to acknowledge diversity of belief."

Accepting the default configuration would be the point that would get argued in court, and it is doubtful that they would win a lawsuit. The appropriate response is to hold their hands up to a mistake (default configuration) and fix it in a way that is not discriminatory.

69. Breeding for God

Comment #221744 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 4:14 am

Philip1978

"But I am in whole hearted agreement with Steve in that I am not willing to sacrifice our culture by turning into a thug about this."

Precisely.

"I don't want my foreign friends, of whom I have the deepest respect for despite our differences over religion, to feel like they don't belong here. Like me, they were born and raised here, pay their taxes and live normal lives."

Then they aren't foreign.

"I hate religious extremism, I deplore it - I would have the IDEA of it slowly wiped out by logic and reason so that religion was still free to practise but it had no direct influence on education and politics."

Exactly, it comes down to "you can't suppress ideas but you can police actions" every time.

"I am not going to give up being as civil as I can to those who deserve it."

Second round of applause of the day. Well said.

70. Breeding for God

Comment #221669 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 1:40 am

"That's one of the worrying things about this site. An obvious xenophobe can rant against millions upon millions of ordinary, civilised human beings (which is what the great majority of muslims actually are, let's try to remember :)), can demand they be banned from an entering a continent because they follow this particular religion, & be turfed out of these countries where they may have lived all their lives if they support ideas with which he disagrees - & there's "nothing extreme" about such a position."

::applause::

"I'm just glad there are still many tolerant, broad-minded & politically moderate atheists in the world outside these online ghettos of "clear thinking"."

There are plenty inside the online ghettos too, but you will notice that violence of opinion tends to go hand in hand with violence of debating "skill". There is only so much dealing with thinly veiled xenophobia and racism you can do without getting sick of it.

71. Religions thrived to protect against disease

Comment #221644 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:18 am

"Dr,nothing can compete against the mighty Coro.St,Home and Away and Neighbours.......by the way whats an opinion? ;0"

Ha! I hear some people even send condolence cards, hate mail etc to some of the actors because their grasp of reality is so poor and they don't get it isn't reality TV. Frightening.

72. Atheism FLEAmix

Comment #221639 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:10 am

Its the Itchy and Scratchy show!

73. PZ Myers Desecrates a Eucharist

Comment #221638 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:07 am

Once you pop, you just can't stop.

74. Religions thrived to protect against disease

Comment #221637 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:06 am

The press are deliberately throwing fuel on the fire here, there is nothing they like better than a bun-fight.

I think this is a good thing, as it will mean that soap-opera viewers will tune in eventually and form opinions.

75. Council ban on atheist websites

Comment #221633 by Dr Doctor on July 30, 2008 at 12:01 am

I'm sorry but cock-up does not wash. The responsibility is down to the line management of those who selected the software in the first place.

1. Why choose that software.
2. Was an informed decision made, if not, why wasn't the right information put in front of the decision makers.
3. Why choose to stick with the default configuration.

So "cock up" gets nobody off the hook. If one of my employees used company funds (or even freeware) to install something like this that made a partisan (read:non company policy/law) choice about blocking then they would be shown the door or at least limit their career. The manager who was legally responsible for that department would be in serious doodoo also.

That goes for anyone blocking access to Christian over Islam or Christian over Atheist sites. You either block adhering to the company policy, or the law, or everything or nothing.

Ignorance is no excuse, and I suspect someone, somewhere deliberately did this thinking no one would notice or that everyone would share their views.

76. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220753 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 2:02 am

Quetzalcoatl, you are going straight to Hull for that one!

77. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220747 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:50 am

Heinz tomato ketchup, the only blood of Christ worth daubing your crackers into.

(Failing that, a salsa dip)

78. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220743 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:45 am

I found the cracker/Jesus thing tasteless.

79. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220734 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:35 am

You probably still can under XP and Vista if you write a kernel service or a device driver. I've certainly had a few BSODs on my Vaio when writing "cool things".

I much prefer Debian/Ubuntu, but its the drivers see...

Hmm. Religion according to Windows 98, where do we go when we have BSODded? Do we CTRL-ALT-DEL or do we hang there until the power fails?

If there is a CTRL-ALT-DEL this implies there is a prime mover in all things.

This would, of course, make Bill Gates god, or more accurately Tim Paterson.

For Windows CE (Catholic Edition) BSODomy is not permitted, but goes on anyway. You are not allowed to install virus protection.

80. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220731 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:31 am

There has to be a quip in there about BSOD.

81. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220721 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:21 am

I think there must be a low level swizzling prayer system where you think the prayer is going to a name but it is really going to an actual address somewhere outside of the universe, address 0x000000.

82. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220715 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:14 am

There we are then, rinse and repeat.

83. Catholics To Pope: Lift Birth Control Ban

Comment #220711 by Dr Doctor on July 29, 2008 at 1:11 am

The question really is, what have they done every previous time an infallible statement has to be overturned?

84. Obama Should Re-Think His Faith-Based Agenda

Comment #220505 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:08 pm

I read a similar article somewhere else and I can't remember where. Either way, referring to walls coming down in Berlin is quite appropriate.

The Democratic Party is supposed to be opening a conference soon with a prayer (first time in its history) according to my Grauniad Weekly (I'm a little behind on them to be honest). Very worrying.

Other than the hypersensitivity to the use of walls, great article.

85. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220500 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:04 pm

Thewhitepearl:

Apologies for thinking you were doing a "me too" style wind up of Big Dog.

86. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220498 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 2:02 pm

"I am not ignorant. You are unable to read, like I said "Most Muslims"... which is true. But believe it or not, the Chechens can be just as bad as the Palestinians. So no I don't discriminate."

Please do wander back through the thread to regain some semblance of the point dear chap.

"And another aside, the "racist" card gets really old when applied to anti-Islamism. Grow up..."

That is just your guilt speaking. I clearly marked what I was referring to, you might look back to "that is all you had to say".

"The self righeous who constantly attempt to ferret out racists whenever someone decries Islam are rarely able to take a joke."

More guilt speaking?

"The Doctor doesn't seem to know about the black tribes in Sauid Arabia (Bani Harb and the like), he wouldn't know about them, so he probably assume Saudis are white.... when in fact there are more than a few in the Hijaz that are absolutely black as can be."

You really need to stop making things up. Either you don't actually read what people write before replying (and that seems to be the way of it) or you are trying to retrofit a frame to the argument that makes you feel better about your own dismal performance on this thread.

You might want to review your tactics, they only work against people you can actually intimidate. If you would argue without resorting to rants and insults so quickly you might win a few more.

Either way, I see no point in the continuing this particular conversation with you. There is only so much poorly argued ground shifting I can be bothered to reply to or try to correct.

Plus, it is time to sleep and I am slightly narked I let myself get sucked into this as the punishment is that I only finished working some 15 minutes ago. I'm only going to get grumpier and pour more fuel on your flames, so time to "plonk" for all our sakes.

Watch Lawrence of Arabia, and pay attention to the script.

*plonk*

87. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220372 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:21 am

@285

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm

Really, it has been done before.

88. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220370 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:19 am

"Hey where did Dr. Doctor go????"

Earning a living and then eating dinner, then earning a living again. Time spent on this forum takes it out of the working day. I really have to cut back soon as working late to make up for it is a real pain in the arse and is quite unsociable.

"He made all these personal assertions about me"

How does it feel to have the recipient of it for once?

"then took off when it was time for the rubber to meet the road... oh well."

You might be getting dangerously obsessed, consider stepping away from the keyboard and get some fresh air, seriously.

89. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220368 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 11:16 am

"University of Google, hilarious. Actually I have done quite a bunch of research on these topics."

And yet you remain ignorant that there is a significant part of the Muslim world that is white in skin pigmentation, astonishing.

"It is as relevant as asking me if I saw Lawrence of Arabia."

Wrong. Watch it again, you will see what I mean.

"It was found in the libraries of universities and Saudi Arabia itself. But like you said, I don't have the time to travel."

You went to Saudi Arabia and yet you still remain ignorant? Perhaps Saudi Arabia isn't the best place to encounter "white" Muslims. I don't know, I haven't been there.

"Ignorance of what? Are you really this dense. How the fuck am I ignorant. You randomly bring up T.E. Lawrence and then declare me ignorant. What did I miss here?"

3/4 of the point, it seems. The film Lawrence of Arabia contains at least one point in it which should shake prejudices on skin colour.

Plus, you should visit Turkey some time, if you really can't get past relating Muslims to a skin colour.

90. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220296 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:29 am

"I know that asshole. I was quickly listing countries that have both Muslim and white populations. Is it too much to ask that you pick up on the obvious, or do I need to spell everything out in Teratornis fashion."

Temper temper.

"I can only be so didactic with people like you..."

You mean you don't have a limitless supply?


"I did. I have a degree in Middle Eastern Studies, and I have seen Lawrence of Arabia. Have you read his books? How about St. John Philby?"

Then your ignorance is shocking, to quote you.


"So the next time you suggest someone go do something intellectual to make yourself feel/look better, make sure they didn't already do it. But if you want to talk Arabian Peninsula with me let's do it. Please select a topic:"

Where did I say I wanted to talk Arabian Peninsula with you?


"1) Himyaritic Kingdom and the Abyssinian invasion to depose Dhu Nawas in the 6th Century
2) Nabataean epigraphy at Mada'in Salih
3) Early Arabic inscriptions at the oasis of Dedan
4) Egyptian copper mines at Tayma?
5) Early Christian presence in Mecca?
6) The Wahhbi Ikhwan campaing?"

Fascinating, the University of Google is such a wonderful place with equal opportunity for all. How is this relevant to your question?

"Tip: I've lived in Turkey, and yes, there were "white" Muslims there, and plenty of them.

Did you do Ottoman Turkish? No, no it seems not. Are you an Orhan Palmuk fan?

Evet?

Hayir?"

How is this relevant? Answer: It isn't. Stop shifting your ground.

91. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220284 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:21 am

@207, Peacebeuponme

"Well, the only alternative is anarchy."

Depressingly true, except perhaps, for being nomadic. It would be nice to have a sponger free society (and I mean real spongers rather than a demographic that people with anger issues like to label as spongers), but that will come when we have a criminal free society.

After all, criminals should pay for their own damn cells.

( ;) )

92. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220278 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:15 am

Dr. Doctor,

"There was a typo,"

Not a revealing error then? OK, I apologise for that then.

"Thank you for pointing that out."

Not a problem.

"And exactly how many Muslims are of white complexion"

When I've done a head count, you'll be the first to know.

"....Bosnia, Chechneya."

Bosnia and Chechneya are countries not Muslims.

"Do you consider Turks white?"

Eh?

Like I said, go watch Lawrence of Arabia, I'm guessing you can't take the time off to actually visit the Middle East and troll around the Lebannon, Turkey et al.

Tip: I've lived in Turkey, and yes, there were "white" Muslims there, and plenty of them.

93. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220271 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:11 am

"I think I'm missing something here, what are you saying?"

I'm wondering if there really is much difference when you come down to it between Mafia extortion and taxation.

"Who is being elitist?"

Me, apparently. Thats my cup of tea, I was talking about something for me to think about. Sorry, wasn't directed at you at all!

94. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220264 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:06 am

Yes, I do and I agree with it in general, but it isn't a point I was arguing.

I'll make it clear for you: I despise all religions equally, I make no distinction of colour nor class and I think that violence is the first resort of the incompetent.

That is pretty much as far as my philosophy goes. All the rest of it is "case law" (if you get the "joke").

95. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220259 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 9:02 am

al-rawandi:

I thought I'd leave it as long as you did, if not longer, and see how jumped up you got.

"Do you deny that terrorists are Muslims, and many Muslims are of dark complexion?"

I do deny terrorists are Muslims. What a pathetic revealing statement.

Some terrorists have been/are Muslims.

Many Muslims are of dark complexion, many are of white.

As you like films, ever seen Lawrence of Arabia? Yes? No? Go watch, it is probably about 22% accurate.

96. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220254 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:58 am

@Peacebeuponme

On the other hand, there is a level of extortion with menaces about government taxation. How different is it really than a scaled up Mafia operation?

Something to think about over a nice elitist cup of tea.

97. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220248 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:50 am

"You are truly obnoxioes.... to quote Walter Sobchak in the "Big Lebowski".... "You are like a small child who wanders into a movie, and wonders what is going on.""

Oh yes, of course. The usual resort to movie quotes to get by.

"It was insinuated that there was some bias on my part to immigrants, who are often dark skinned..."

I suggest you go get your head around some recent stats about migration inside the European Union then.

"A Muslim immigrant is likely to be dark skinned. It was insinuated that this was being focused on, at which point I said there were plenty of white people who abuse the system. I noted this to prove incorrect the assertion that I acknowledge only immigrants in the abuse of welfare."

You and I both know that isn't the bit I am quoting.


"Skin color has nothing to do with terrorism in its cause."

Thats all you had to admit.


"You are the one living on a fucked up backwards planet."

And now for the science bit...

98. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220242 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:46 am

Still waiting for an explanation of why skin pigmentation found its way into your "argument".

99. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220241 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:45 am

"So when a resident know-nothing like Dr. Doctor whines about "share value" he doesn't seem to realize that capital gains taxes are a strong soruce for the welfare he so desperately wants."

Oh dear, thats the bottom of the barrel scraped, what do you do for an encore? Start drilling through the wine cellar floor into mud?

I repeat:

1. It was a send up of your strawman, an attempt to get you to see how your extreme example was pointless.

I add:

2. I benefit quite nicely from shareholder value, thanks, and I've never needed any welfare payments in my life.

So how about you quit stereotyping about people who don't just roll over when you start having a tantrum about them.

OK, I know, I asked for the impossible.

100. A third of Muslim students back killings

Comment #220237 by Dr Doctor on July 28, 2008 at 8:41 am

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Your reply about the IRA is irrelevant. The example was drawn to point out your logical fallacy of "white drunks".

Again, you still haven't explained why skin colour suddenly plays a role - does having white pigmentation suddenly make you less likely to be a terrorist on your planet?

"Explain how increasing share value of a stock is bad for people.... "

Way to miss the point.

"So in short... fuck off with your haughty, and misplaced intellectual elitism. "

Answer: Nope.