51. Mind your manners

Comment #88797 by munky82 on November 19, 2007 at 2:27 am

I apologize for my ignorance. Guess I should shut up if I don't know what I am talking about. I made a haphazard comparison, and for that I humbly apologize.

I just don't like freeloaders. BUT a system of support for those who cannot help themselves is needed. I just dream of a world where exploitation doesn't happen. That is why I originally made the remark that if we have non-human (and thus incorruptible) system in place it would be a better step towards the holy grail called Utopia.

We are selfish primates. We have luckily realized what needs to be done to keep civilization prosperous. We have different arguments and thoughts to achieve this. We value different things, and get frustrated with those who have different values. I am sure that a social system that works brilliantly is in our future. We all should have a part in making civilization better, but we are selfish primates. Thus corruption WILL occur......snoooze.... :-)

52. Mind your manners

Comment #88756 by MuNky82 on November 18, 2007 at 11:42 pm

Me? Right-wing? Well maybe, even though I never thought of myself that way. Yes I do admit I am not up to par with UK Politics (or any politics for that matter, since I am performing a self study and my studies are still young) thus my statements was out of ignorance, I apologize. I don't enjoy the ad hominem attacks. I just feel that freeloading is not nice, from the government (funded by everybody) or rich daddies. I do support socialism for people who truly are in a pickle. I am in South Africa where proper health care can be bought at more than 10-30% of the average income. Thus the ones who need it most cannot afford it. The state hospitals are a joke and our health minister is a clown. My links are old but trust me this happens sadly quite regularly. (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060702114915729C597453) (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=6&art_id=vn20060821101244617C573099). Marx' writings were popular in Europe (and in the last 60 years in Africa) since there were a noble class living of a working class, and in Africa colonials exploiting the locals.

I am sorry if I touched a nerve. But having a child out of ignorance and exploitation (even if the story is fictional) is horrible. Children should be received and reared in a loving, able home. I was using a (fictional, it seems) example since most of the readers here are First Worlders.

I know that the loyal readers of this site is secularists. We dislike it when our tax money fund religious activities. Correct? Now use the same argument - I dislike it when my tax money fund exploitive (of the social system) activities. It is not nice when tax money is wasted on viral memes, social or spiritual.

53. Mind your manners

Comment #88755 by munky82 on November 18, 2007 at 11:39 pm

Me? Right-wing? Well maybe, even though I never thought of myself that way. Yes I do admit I am not up to par with UK Politics (or any politics for that matter, since I am performing a self study and my studies are still young) thus my statements was out of ignorance, I apologize. I don't enjoy the ad hominem attacks. I just feel that freeloading is not nice, from the government (funded by everybody) or rich daddies. I do support socialism for people who truly are in a pickle. I am in South Africa where proper health care can be bought at more than 10-30% of the average income. Thus the ones who need it most cannot afford it. The state hospitals are a joke and our health minister is a clown. My links are old but trust me this happens sadly quite regularly. (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060702114915729C597453) (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=6&art_id=vn20060821101244617C573099). Marx' writings were popular in Europe (and in the last 60 years in Africa) since there were a noble class living of a working class, and in Africa colonials exploiting the locals.

I am sorry if I touched a nerve. But having a child out of ignorance and exploitation (even if the story is fictional) is horrible. Children should be received and reared in a loving, able home. I was using a (fictional, it seems) example since most of the readers here are First Worlders.

I know that the loyal readers of this site is secularists. We dislike it when our tax money fund religious activities. Correct? Now use the same argument - I dislike it when my tax money fund exploitive (of the social system) activities. It is not nice when tax money is wasted on viral memes, social or spiritual.

54. Mind your manners

Comment #88754 by munky82 on November 18, 2007 at 11:38 pm

Me? Right-wing? Well maybe, even though I never thought of myself that way. Yes I do admit I am not up to par with UK Politics (or any politics for that matter, since I am performing a self study and my studies are still young) thus my statements was out of ignorance, I apologize. I don't enjoy the ad hominem attacks. I just feel that freeloading is not nice, from the government (funded by everybody) or rich daddies. I do support socialism for people who truly are in a pickle. I am in South Africa where proper health care can be bought at more than 10-30% of the average income. Thus the ones who need it most cannot afford it. The state hospitals are a joke and our health minister is a clown. My links are old but trust me this happens sadly quite regularly. (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060702114915729C597453) (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=6&art_id=vn20060821101244617C573099). Marx' writings were popular in Europe (and in the last 60 years in Africa) since there were a noble class living of a working class, and in Africa colonials exploiting the locals.

I am sorry if I touched a nerve. But having a child out of ignorance and exploitation (even if the story is fictional) is horrible. Children should be received and reared in a loving, able home. I was using a (fictional, it seems) example since most of the readers here are First Worlders.

I know that the loyal readers of this site is secularists. We dislike it when our tax money fund religious activities. Correct? Now use the same argument - I dislike it when my tax money fund exploitive (of the social system) activities. It is not nice when tax money is wasted on viral memes, social or spiritual.

55. Mind your manners

Comment #88313 by MuNky82 on November 16, 2007 at 12:26 am

This talk about Marxism, I always think that Marx had a few things correct (in the context of the world he lived in - cast system abusing the lower castes), and yes, Socialism is a good thing to a point. I think conservatives are frustrated with the fact that some people abuse the virtues of socialism (I think of the 17 year old girls in the UK who get pregnant on purpose to get an apartment). I do support some socialist benefits (free health care) but I believe that there should be checks in place to filter the freeloaders, or at least force them to stop, and only help those who truly are in a pickle. Then there should be checks in place to stop those abusing the working class.... Ah well, some days I am libertarian, others I am a liberal...

I honestly believe that when we develop a non-human incorruptible AI/system that can quickly determine the merits of a situation, then we have the seeds of Utopia in our hands.... Can't wait for the singularity...

56. Mind your manners

Comment #88311 by MuNky82 on November 16, 2007 at 12:04 am

HAHAHA - "The blogosphere, as I once before described it, is the biggest lavatory wall in the world, "

So true. I always snicker when I read "blogroll". It is not the bLogosphere, but the boggosphere.... bogroll....

Now to read the article further....

57. 'Expelled' Movie: The Extended Trailer

Comment #88309 by MuNky82 on November 15, 2007 at 11:31 pm

A while ago I saw an Internet clip of the Colbert Report (we don't get it here) where his Wørd was "Wikiality" which basically is that "if enough people agree on something it is the TRUTH". He was displaying the weakness about Wikipedia , but it fits into religion so well too, especially the regional amplification of some memes (Bible Belt etc.) If everybody around you agree on something you accept as the truth eventually. "Forget about reality lets all live in a wikiality. Truth is democratic after all..."

58. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #88170 by MuNky82 on November 15, 2007 at 3:14 am

Yeah, I know Haymoon. But like in "Obelix & Co" you have to adjust your language if the present company is ...um... "intellectually unreachable".

You savvy? :-P

Recently in a forum debate I had with a creationist, I said that "I accept Evolution since it IS science, just like you accept a light switch because it turns the light bulb in the ceiling on. But guess what? Science provided your light switch, just as it provided evolution. So go sit naked in your garden. Just remember there is no doctors and light bulbs there. I'll enjoy my "apple of knowledge" in my lighted lounge, while reading a book about evolution.

59. Why Science Will Triumph Only When Theory Becomes Law

Comment #88162 by MuNky82 on November 15, 2007 at 2:22 am

"We shouldn't call evolutionary theory a law because it *isn't* a law; it's many laws. In and of itself, evolutionary theory is like a higher taxon that comprises a number of more restrictive taxa, and it is these taxa — the order, family, genus and species — that are specific laws, in much the same way that Decapoda and Amphipoda are both Crustaceans.
"


How about using the plural of "Law" - Laws?
I know it is technically incorrect, but "Laws of Evolution" would indacte many Laws that lead the Evolution Theory.

Or how about the 'Conclusion of Evolution' or the 'Evolutionary Conclusion', even though it sounds horrible, "conclusion" would indicate investigation of evidence and thus concluding a valid/factual theory.

"Believe" is also weak in the sense that it sounds like a leap of faith. How about "accept", it sounds definite and powerful.

Example:
99.98% of scientist believe in the Theory of Evolution.

VS

99.98% of scientist accept the Evolutionary Conclusion.

60. Antony Flew's Bogus Book

Comment #86690 by MuNky82 on November 10, 2007 at 1:17 am

And the plot thickens...

61. When Congress Interferes With Science, Who You Gonna Call? (Hint: It's not Ghostbusters)

Comment #86025 by MuNky82 on November 7, 2007 at 10:41 pm

I am not an American, but I would have signed up if I was, because, you know, accident of birth :).

Anyway, I think that in the 2004 election there were about 120 million voters. So if a non-theism is a adult choice, and non-theist are traditionally clear thinkers (and thus voters). That would make the scale at most a quarter of the voting population.

I know it is not a clear argument with many assumptions but it's a start...

62. Fox News Discussion on 'The Golden Compass'

Comment #85734 by MuNky82 on November 7, 2007 at 12:55 am

What is even more strange to me is how Fox News are conservative.

Isn't Fox the guys with the (traditionally) most liberal shows? (Thinking of "The Simpsons", and waaay back's "Married with Children")

How did it happen that their news channel became so conservative? And then of course the 2000 vote calling. (If Michael Moore is to be believed)

63. Fox News Discussion on 'The Golden Compass'

Comment #85731 by MuNky82 on November 7, 2007 at 12:50 am

What a stupid clip.

I know Fox News is Jesusland News, but they didn't even give Annie Laurie Gaylor more than two sentences at a time. I am sure that the average Christian Right viewer would realize that the clip is unbalanced, if not then they are definitely intellectually unreachable.

It is strange how faithheads think that Atheism is another religion. It seems that they cannot grasp the fact that disbelief is not the same as belief. They see atheism as as anti-theism. I know a lot of of atheist are frustrated with the deluded irrationality and thus somewhat militant, but it is like we have a agenda of world domination (ala Islam). We (IMO) are just promoting reason over dogma, don't we? We don't want to replace dogma, we want to show what it is, and thus make the observer aware of the stupidity. Sort of like free-will anti-dogmatism. I am sure that EVERYBODY has reason underneath somewhere, I just hope that most are not too clouded over.

64. Pope's 'morning after pill' speech criticized

Comment #83690 by MuNky82 on October 31, 2007 at 12:26 am

The Morning After Pill promotes promiscuity? These dumbwits probably don't know anything. My lady had to take one a while back. She complained how horrible she felt for days afterwards, and it messed up her cycle. It is as the description says - EMERGENCY contraception, when other methods fail. Not a regular method.

What if the woman has been raped? Won't that child be a product of evil instead of love? Won't that child carry that yoke all his life?

65. Sam Harris at AAI 07

Comment #82322 by MuNky82 on October 26, 2007 at 4:03 am

@Styrer

Sam Harris likes Jainism since it has good morals like extreme respect for life - non destructive vegetarianism, the plant must survive after harvest. But in his book, "End of Faith" he also highlights the ridiculous assumptions made in Jainism, which is an aspect of all religions.

66. Was religion beneficial to the development of society? Is it now?

Comment #82294 by MuNky82 on October 26, 2007 at 2:38 am

Comment #82171 by kev_s is BRILLIANT.

67. Sam Harris at AAI 07

Comment #82289 by MuNky82 on October 26, 2007 at 2:24 am

Sorry, but wasn't that what the term "Bright" was trying to do? We are working with the "herding cats" problem, so the umbrella term Bright was invented. Correct? Isn't a Bright a [theistic] skeptic, atheist, humanist, agnostic etc.?

I like "Bright" for that reason since it sounds friendly, (like "gay") even though we are dealing with a serious problem.

I personally call myself agnostic under this umbrella since I am open for any arguments, and the subject matter of said arguments is so obscure/abstract that definite positions seem foolish. IMO(!)

68. Most religious people are moderate, and don't hurt anybody

Comment #82266 by MuNky82 on October 26, 2007 at 1:07 am

Copy and paste of a post I made today on a Facebook cause called "Keep God in Schools". There was some impromptu debate on the main page and the conversation line went to judgmental Christians. I paste my comment here even though I feel this can be used on different debate points too. Anyway:

"That is the problem I have stressed. Christianity has a lot of good things (heck, most religions do) But the problem is the good things are the hook, and thus The Bad Things (slavery, prejudice, bigotry, genocide) must be accepted/tolerated too. That is a point I am making - a moderate caring compassionate reasonable Christian will tolerate the hard lined bible-slapping fundaMENTALS because they are Christian too. How about you disperse the common denominator between the two? (I know it is a difficult proposition since we are talking about your faith and soul here) But you have to be frustrated with God/Jesus if he allow such perversion in His name. You have to remember too that the God of Abraham is also known as Allah, and some strong believers in Allah flew into some buildings a while back. Some of these believers feel it is alright to cut the throats of young children to get their point across. You cannot blame them, since their interpretations and religious morality is somewhat medieval - people did this in the name of Christ as well a few centuries ago. Luckily Westerners had some enlightenment of reason in the mean while. But still we cling to some of our beliefs, the same beliefs that not only allowed, but inspired so many horrors. You have to be frustrated with an invisible being, whose only actions seem to be indirect coincidences, for allowing such problems in His name. You have to maybe realize that these beliefs and faiths might seem a bit silly in the face of these evidence to the contrary. And if you say that things are improving, then what about the millions of innocent souls lost in the process? What happened to the souls in the thousands of years before Christ? What happened to the souls of those sacrificed on the Aztec altars? Doesn't the presumably strongest sentient force (which has been accredited with love and compassion) in the universe seem a bit horrible in this light? Think about it."

69. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #72052 by MuNky82 on September 20, 2007 at 8:13 am

About my boss, it doesn't bother me and it boosts company morale, so let it be. If I am forced to pray in fear of losing my job, yes then I would contact the Department of Labour.

70. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #72050 by MuNky82 on September 20, 2007 at 8:09 am

But I do understand the error of what happened. In a situation where one act in behalf of a government representative, your personal religion should not control, or influence your actions.

That sergeant is wrong in his capacity as a sergeant of the US Army. But if the soldier knew this would happen he should have avoided the situation altogether, by playing along. But if the confrontation was unexpected, yes, sue the bastards. If the soldier got tired of all the praying and decided to rebel, then he approached the situation incorrectly. He should have joined the prayer (for the sake of company morale) and then follow the proper procedure of reporting misconduct. If this lawsuit is because procedure was followed and unsatisfactory results attained then I agree with the lawsuit. But I am sure a higher ranking officer would have sorted the situated out correctly before a lawsuit was made.

71. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #72038 by MuNky82 on September 20, 2007 at 7:35 am

No I mean the context of the situation should warrant the behavior. If I were in that soldier's shoes, then I would hold hands and play along. (As JamesDB in #3 said) That is why I say that this specific incidence might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

At the small company where I work the boss start the weekly meeting with prayer. I think it is wrong, but I am the only non-Christian in a company of 5 people. So I just shut-up and stare ahead. Same with a dinner party where I am a guest.

This is where the homosexual parallel comes in. If you are gay, fine. This doesn't mean you have to be loud & flaming all the time. If your gay (or rather human) rights are infringed, yes then make a issue out of it.

Yes, it is wrong that religion is in politics. It is wrong that someones religion shapes my world, and that should be fought, but if that man and "Bill" doesn't bother me, then I would continue to eat my food with half an eye on him, ;-). If he holds a steak knife in his hand and demand I recognize "Bill", I would, just so that I can get out of there and call the cops. I would not march over and tell him that "Bill" doesn't exist, he might just reach for that steak knife...

72. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

Comment #71994 by MuNky82 on September 20, 2007 at 5:04 am

I agree with JamesDB. One should know when to keep one's atheism to oneself. Maybe this was the last straw for the soldier. Maybe religion was forced upon him for a while and this was his moment of rebellion.

When people pray I just keep silent and look ahead. I mean you don't have to force your disbelief. You can just ignore situations of belief.